The moral necessity of HA

[Outcast9428]

@fschmidt @Cornfed @Kalinago It wasn’t unheard of for a woman to be chaste until marriage but expecting it was still unrealistic. There is a big difference between what people said they believed was moral and how they were actually acting. Getting rid of hookup culture is perfectly realistic but stopping premarital sex entirely? Definitely not. You have to have a medieval like social system where marriages are arranged and couples get married within a matter of days, maybe months at most to expect the whole “no premarital sex” thing to be realistic. Quite honestly, I don’t think there’s nearly as much of a difference between a girl who’s a virgin and a girl who’s only slept with 2 or 3 guys as some people act like there is.

I knew you would turn out to have been a leftist Satanist all along.

Because I am realistic about expectations and not denying myself happiness in pursuit of a ridiculous fantasy I am a leftist satanist? Surveys back then show that despite the fact that 80% of the population thought premarital sex was morally wrong, 88% of the population still had premarital sex. It isn’t a realistic expectation when people are dating for years before getting married. Nobody can do it except for a very small and particularly committed few.

And no I’m not going to follow a rule or insist that other people follow a rule that even the vast majority of people who actually believe in it couldn’t even follow many decades ago. And I think that stubbornly insisting that people follow a rule that almost nobody has followed for many decades now is going to turn people away from an idea that could actually bring about positive change. If we manage to destroy hookup culture, destroy kink culture, and get women back in the kitchen… Then we can discuss refraining from premarital sex entirely and restoring arranged marriages in order to make that possible. But I’m not going to try to get everybody to run a marathon when our society can’t even walk yet.

Bish,realistic for white christian cucks!for me the most realistic thing is a virgin jailbait,or a few more than that,because I am not limited to coalburning slavic,latina and faux-conservative east asian women,nor desire them.

Don't act like all men are in the same predicament as you are,simply because christians are cuckolds and meek weak beta males.

I have realized how big a scam happier abroad is,and that Fschmidt is right that the only solution is religious fundementalist women.

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much. Sure it would be preferable or neat I suppose but I think it’s ridiculous this idea that y’all have that you would refuse to date a girl you get along well with and who has a reasonable partner count and is very loyal and sweet to you all because she isn’t a virgin. I have bigger priorities then whether she’s a virgin or not.

[Cornfed]

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much.

Two ways of saying the same thing. You'll never be taken seriously on moral issues ever again.

[Outcast9428]

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much.

Two ways of saying the same thing. You'll never be taken seriously on moral issues ever again.

Yes I will, because virtually nobody out there is as much of an extremist on this as y'all are. I don't know anybody in real life who would just say that all women who aren't virgins are sluts. And I don't know anyone in real life who expects their wife to be a virgin and refuses to marry any girl who isn't a virgin. And that's despite the fact that I live in one of the more conservative areas of the US and refuse to hang out with anybody who doesn't express explicitly conservative views and conducts themselves in a conservative manner. I didn't even meet anybody in Hungary who thought that way. Despite how many people give lip service to the idea of waiting until marriage, nobody actually does it. And I don't see the point of pretending this is actually a feasible expectation. Y'all are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. These pie in the sky delusions are actively destroying your lives, and I'm not going to jump on board with this hyper-purist self sabotage thing that you guys have going because I actually do want to be happy in life rather then sit on my ass complaining on the internet all day about women not being virgins anymore. If the vast majority of people who actually believe you shouldn't have sex until marriage still do it, then what the f**k is the point of telling people not to have premarital sex? We're just gonna die on a hill we know we're gonna lose? If I'm going to support a certain position, I need to believe its actually possible for that idea to win. I will preach conservative values, but I'm not going to tell people that they aren't a conservative unless they do something that only 3% of the modern population actually does and even many decades ago, still only 12% of the population did. If you set your standards that f***ing high when most people nowadays don't even think having a one night stand is wrong, then you are going to lose the culture war.

[Cornfed]

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much.

Two ways of saying the same thing. You'll never be taken seriously on moral issues ever again.

Yes I will, because virtually nobody out there is as much of an extremist on this as y'all are. I don't know anybody in real life who would just say that all women who aren't virgins are sluts. And I don't know anyone in real life who expects their wife to be a virgin and refuses to marry any girl who isn't a virgin. And that's despite the fact that I live in one of the more conservative areas of the US and refuse to hang out with anybody who doesn't express explicitly conservative views and conducts themselves in a conservative manner. I didn't even meet anybody in Hungary who thought that way. Despite how many people give lip service to the idea of waiting until marriage, nobody actually does it. And I don't see the point of pretending this is actually a feasible expectation. Y'all are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. These pie in the sky delusions are actively destroying your lives, and I'm not going to jump on board with this hyper-purist self sabotage thing that you guys have going because I actually do want to be happy in life rather then sit on my ass complaining on the internet all day about women not being virgins anymore. If the vast majority of people who actually believe you shouldn't have sex until marriage still do it, then what the f**k is the point of telling people not to have premarital sex? We're just gonna die on a hill we know we're gonna lose? If I'm going to support a certain position, I need to believe its actually possible for that idea to win. I will preach conservative values, but I'm not going to tell people that they aren't a conservative unless they do something that only 3% of the modern population actually does and even many decades ago, still only 12% of the population did. If you set your standards that f***ing high when most people nowadays don't even think having a one night stand is wrong, then you are going to lose the culture war.

As I said, you are just another leftist supporting slutification. You may as well take all your boosters. It will probably feel cathartic. You have exempted yourself from any serious consideration on the issue except for when you inevitably go into full perversion promotion mode.

[Outcast9428]

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much.

Two ways of saying the same thing. You'll never be taken seriously on moral issues ever again.

Yes I will, because virtually nobody out there is as much of an extremist on this as y'all are. I don't know anybody in real life who would just say that all women who aren't virgins are sluts. And I don't know anyone in real life who expects their wife to be a virgin and refuses to marry any girl who isn't a virgin. And that's despite the fact that I live in one of the more conservative areas of the US and refuse to hang out with anybody who doesn't express explicitly conservative views and conducts themselves in a conservative manner. I didn't even meet anybody in Hungary who thought that way. Despite how many people give lip service to the idea of waiting until marriage, nobody actually does it. And I don't see the point of pretending this is actually a feasible expectation. Y'all are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. These pie in the sky delusions are actively destroying your lives, and I'm not going to jump on board with this hyper-purist self sabotage thing that you guys have going because I actually do want to be happy in life rather then sit on my ass complaining on the internet all day about women not being virgins anymore. If the vast majority of people who actually believe you shouldn't have sex until marriage still do it, then what the f**k is the point of telling people not to have premarital sex? We're just gonna die on a hill we know we're gonna lose? If I'm going to support a certain position, I need to believe its actually possible for that idea to win. I will preach conservative values, but I'm not going to tell people that they aren't a conservative unless they do something that only 3% of the modern population actually does and even many decades ago, still only 12% of the population did. If you set your standards that f***ing high when most people nowadays don't even think having a one night stand is wrong, then you are going to lose the culture war.

As I said, you are just another leftist supporting slutification. You may as well take all your boosters. It will probably feel cathartic. You have exempted yourself from any serious consideration on the issue except for when you inevitably go into full perversion promotion mode.

Question, do you actually think that's going to work? I mean, the only people I ever talk to outside of work are conservatives, and everybody I know thinks I'm radically conservative. Among the people I talk to, I'm the one constantly trying to push people further to the right. So you calling me a leftist has no impact.

[Cornfed]

Question, do you actually think that's going to work? I mean, the only people I ever talk to outside of work are conservatives, and everybody I know thinks I'm really far right. Among the people I talk to, I'm the one constantly trying to push people further to the right. So you calling me a leftist has no impact.

Give it up. You are a leftist simp with no more right to live on God's green earth than a bacterial spore. Just accept it.

[Outcast9428]

Question, do you actually think that's going to work? I mean, the only people I ever talk to outside of work are conservatives, and everybody I know thinks I'm really far right. Among the people I talk to, I'm the one constantly trying to push people further to the right. So you calling me a leftist has no impact.

Give it up. You are a leftist simp with no more right to live on God's green earth than a bacterial spore. Just accept it.

If that is going to be your standard, then 99% of the population are leftist simps, Satan has won, and we are all doomed... Which you probably believe is true.

I just don't accept that.

[Cornfed]

If that is going to be your standard, then 99% of the population are leftist simps, Satan has won, and we are all doomed... Which you probably believe is true.

Of course most of the population are feminists and simps, and most of them are superior to you because they have a more consistent position. You agree with them that it is OK for females to be sluts, but then you want to split hairs about the precise level of slutishness, as if such hair splitting matters. That is just silly. You support sluttishness and therefore the destruction of society, so you are as leftist as anyone.

[Outcast9428]

If that is going to be your standard, then 99% of the population are leftist simps, Satan has won, and we are all doomed... Which you probably believe is true.

Of course most of the population are feminists and simps, and most of them are superior to you because they have a more consistent position. You agree with them that it is OK for females to be sluts, but then you want to split hairs about the precise level of slutishness, as if such hair splitting matters. That is just silly. You support sluttishness and therefore the destruction of society, so you are as leftist as anyone.

My positions are more consistent then yours are. You support BDSM kinks and yet claim to be hyperconservative. You are part of the perversion problem.

[Cornfed]

My positions are more consistent then yours are. You support BDSM kinks and yet claim to be hyperconservative. You are part of the perversion problem.

I support marriage and the good order of society. You support females being sluts and so are opposed to society like any common leftist. Your other positions on irrelevant things lke BDSM are just silly in that context. You are a silly leftist. You have conceded that society should be destroyed by agreeing that females should be allowed to have sex for no other reason than their hedonistic pleasure. Once you have conceded that, there is no logical reason to limit who they have sex with. If it pleases them to have sex with 5 men and that's OK, why not 10 or 1000? Why not blacks. dogs and other females? You clearly don't have a clue about history or how society works, but it is enough to know you are a leftist every bit as evil as other leftists.

[Outcast9428]

My positions are more consistent then yours are. You support BDSM kinks and yet claim to be hyperconservative. You are part of the perversion problem.

I support marriage and the good order of society. You support females being sluts and so are opposed to society like any common leftist. Your other positions on irrelevant things lke BDSM are just silly in that context. You are a silly leftist. You have conceded that society should be destroyed by agreeing that females should be allowed to have sex for no other reason than their hedonistic pleasure. Once you have conceded that, there is no logical reason to limit who they have sex with. If it pleases them to have sex with 5 men and that's OK, why not 10 or 1000? Why not blacks. dogs and other females? You clearly don't have a clue about history or how society works, but it is enough to know you are a leftist every bit as evil as other leftists.

I do support marriage. I think abortion should be illegal, if the girl gets pregnant during premarital sex then you have made your bed and its time to lie in it. But I'm not going to act like if a girl isn't some hyper-pure virgin that she's a slut. That's f***ing stupid and it shows an even greater inability to understand nuance then several people on this forum have accused me of having. There is a middle ground between slut and virgin.

[Cornfed]

I do support marriage. I think abortion should be illegal, if the girl gets pregnant during premarital sex then you have made your bed and its time to lie in it. But I'm not going to act like if a girl isn't some hyper-pure virgin that she's a slut. That's f***ing stupid and it shows an even greater inability to understand nuance then several people on this forum have accused me of having. There is a middle ground between slut and virgin.

You don't have to keep repeating you're a leftist.

[Outcast9428]

I do support marriage. I think abortion should be illegal, if the girl gets pregnant during premarital sex then you have made your bed and its time to lie in it. But I'm not going to act like if a girl isn't some hyper-pure virgin that she's a slut. That's f***ing stupid and it shows an even greater inability to understand nuance then several people on this forum have accused me of having. There is a middle ground between slut and virgin.

You don't have to keep repeating you're a leftist.

Here's a book showing the opinions of college students in the 1920s. Only 12% of the men responding to this survey said they would insist on having a virgin wife, IN THE 1920s! Your position is borderline radical even by the standards of a hundred years ago!

https://books.google.com/books?id=LU8EA ... &q&f=false

[Tsar]

Despite how many people give lip service to the idea of waiting until marriage, nobody actually does it. And I don't see the point of pretending this is actually a feasible expectation. Y'all are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. These pie in the sky delusions are actively destroying your lives, and I'm not going to jump on board with this hyper-purist self sabotage thing that you guys have going because I actually do want to be happy in life rather then sit on my ass complaining on the internet all day about women not being virgins anymore. If the vast majority of people who actually believe you shouldn't have sex until marriage still do it, then what the f**k is the point of telling people not to have premarital sex? We're just gonna die on a hill we know we're gonna lose? If I'm going to support a certain position, I need to believe its actually possible for that idea to win. I will preach conservative values, but I'm not going to tell people that they aren't a conservative unless they do something that only 3% of the modern population actually does and even many decades ago, still only 12% of the population did. If you set your standards that f***ing high when most people nowadays don't even think having a one night stand is wrong, then you are going to lose the culture war.

It's not feasible in the current Western society because to get people to marry as virgins or at least their first (and only) partner would require:
Authoritarian leadership
Control of the media
Produce and allow only media that promotes or is compatible with that viewpoint
Teach morals in schools
A total ban on birth control. No condoms, no birth control pills, and no abortions. Only defective babies and pregnancies that would be fatal to the woman would be allowed to be terminated. I don't support abortion in the situation of rape, unless it's interracial rape, because that's different, and the girl must not know her rapist. If a girl was raped by a guy she doesn't know at her school or college, it must be assumed she does know him and wanted fun or cheated.
Promote marriage and starting a family.
Destroy feminism.
Make girls need men.
Make girls marry by ages 18-20.

That would make girls marry as virgins.

However, if society acceptable adult men approaching youthful girls both online and offline for a relationship, it would be possible for men to marry a virgin. Almost every guy who goes for youthful girls would want a real relationship with a girl that's a virgin and fertile and would deeply love him and appreciate him.

[Outcast9428]

It’s not because we’re cucks… It’s because most of us don’t really care that much. Sure it would be preferable or neat I suppose but I think it’s ridiculous this idea that y’all have that you would refuse to date a girl you get along well with and who has a reasonable partner count and is very loyal and sweet to you all because she isn’t a virgin. I have bigger priorities then whether she’s a virgin or not.

Yeah. The ideal scenario is to marry a virgin. But I am not quite convinced this is the only acceptable scenario. After all the simple fact is that most girls nowadays simply don't "wait for marriage". So to expect this, the average man will set himself up for failure, statistically speaking. The most desirable girls are taken off the market early. Or at least someone will TRY to get them off the market, and f**k her to mark his territory so to speak...

Hence people like @Kalinago and @Tsar writing things about jailbaits; a young woman from a conservative background will be more guarded by her family. Kalinago especially has been mentioning Muslim communities lately, which will guard their beautiful daughters' virtue closely. If that is what a man wants, more power to him. But I do not think it is feasible for most men. But to those who care, there are still ways to get what he desires. It's just an increasingly great rarity for girls to wait for marriage in most of the modern world and as the years go on it will only become more and more rare and unusual.

Personally all I want is a pretty woman who sits in the house, cooks, cleans and pumps out babies for me. That's all there is to it. Young, with a beautiful face and a nice smooth body. Her having been f***ed by someone else before isn't something I am going to lie awake at night thinking about, seeing as though I have f***ed many women myself and perhaps this is destiny. At least she will birth my offspring and not the offspring of any other man so in the end, I'm still the King of my little domain.

That's pretty much how I feel. I guess the whole "women should not be working" is the thing that I'm considered to be overly rigid about by the people in my inner circle. My girlfriend's parents apparently were kind of upset about me telling her that I wanted her to be a housewife. It was weird, I remember when I first mentioned it to her, she immediately agreed, simply saying "sure, less work for me!" Then I brought it up again a few weeks later and she pushed back on it. But her words just didn't sound like her own and I found out later that her parents didn't like the idea of her not working because my mom met her mom for coffee and the things her mom said was exactly the same thing as I heard my girlfriend say when she was objecting to the idea of being a stay at home mom.

Deep down, however, I don't think my girlfriend actually wants to work. She doesn't really have any ambition. I've asked her a lot of questions about what makes her happy and what she wants for the future and she always replies with something along the lines of "I just want to be with you." I think what she really wants is to make me happy. She is so selfless sometimes that it shocks me. But she also wants to make her parents happy. Her personality is extremely nurturing and people pleasing I guess you could say. She wants to do what will make the people she cares about happy... Which ultimately I think is the essence of what makes a traditional girl. Some traditional girls still work but they do it for their family, not to be "independent." Her parents are religious conservatives, but they're more like mainstream, center right type conservatives rather then full blown traditionalist conservatives.

My friends and parents have basically suggested to me that I table the topic until we are married. They say that her parents are going to get pissed off if I push this too hard and that I should just wait until she's living with me because once she has kids, she probably won't want to work anyway.

As far as the whole virgin until marriage thing, it definitely isn't feasible for the people here because everybody here who talks about that is in their 30s. Among Americans, only 3% of the population waits until marriage before having sex, and of the 3% who did wait, 2% of them got married when they were teenagers. I guess those people are among the really rare ultra traditionalists left in America who set their kids up with someone and then told them to get married as fast as possible so that they wouldn't be fornicating. Among people who ever get married but are past the age of 20, however, 99% of them have premarital sex. It really isn't feasible in this day in age, even if you go to most conservative countries it still isn't feasible because most of the people who actually managed to wait until marriage got married when they were teenagers.

The Muslim world, and India, are the only places where girls' chastity is actually a serious expectation from the community. But its like I said, I really don't get why some guys on this forum and on 4chan make such a huge fuss over the whole virgin thing. I graduated from an environment where it was considered sexist to slutshame a girl for having sex with 30 guys in just one year, not even over her life but just one year. So yeah, a girl who has slept with 2, 3, maybe 5 guys in her life, seems pretty damn conservative to me by comparison.