2 potential drawbacks to expat life/romance in RP?

[ladislav]

Occasionally, I will interview a highly educated Filipino for the IELTS test (Between 8-9 band score), but this seems to be increasingly getting rarer as most seem to be leaving the country to immigrate to Canada, Australia or New Zealand. I interview thousands of Filipinos a year and they are supposed to generally be the higher educated of the mass population, and to be honest there aren't that many left in the Philippines. The ones with means have already left or are in the process of leaving the country permanently. Most Filipinos I interview fal between the 5-7 band range, more so the lower half.

This is an interesting statistics to bring up because in the Philippines ( unlike in many other countries) English is the medium of instruction and does measure the level of education. You will also be surprised at how badly many people there speak their own language. What people speak on the streets is an atrocious mixture of Tagalog and English and it is tolerated in society that prides itself on tolerance. Every time I try and make a somewhat normal sentence in Tagalog people just go ooh and ahhh and say: "Oh my God, your Tagalog is so deep, you speak it better than me, wow!" For example you say simple sentences like:

"Where is the company headquarters? The humidity today is really high! This can cause damage to your lungs". With every word being in Tagalog.

Then it is like- "oh, wow, a poet, a bookworm! a smart ass", etc.

As the US, the Philippines has been dumbing down. It used to be quite a progressive Asian country with a very large intellectual class but no more. Those have mostly emigrated. There is not much patriotism in the Philippines and an average person does not mind leaving as long as it is for a good job.

[YoucancallmeAl]

Thanks guys for all the great input. I agree and understand that there is no perfect situation and each country will have it's drawbacks. The two negatives I bring up in this thread are by no means deal-breakers. I would just like ideas on how to minimize those negatives as much as I can.

But I want to make clear: I am not at all expecting or wanting to impose my Amercian culture and values on Filipinos. I'm all for learning and absorbing and integrating within their culture.
The problem I'm finding is that the kind of American culture they already love is the worst, dumbest, lowest form of it. For example, they all love Hollywood movies, but they love only the dumbest and cheesiest ones. So I can already envision how difficult it will be for me and my filipina to find a movie we can watch together that both of us will enjoy.

My problem in America is that I was born and raised in a poor working-class anti-intellectual trailer-trash kind of environment. I never fit in with my family or my neighbors and always had a hard time finding like-minded friends, even in the US. Sure, as suggested already, I could move to liberal college towns in the US. And I have. But what I found there is that the smarter, artsier, hipper crowd didn't accept me either. They didn't see me as one of them. (and of course, liberal college cities tend to be a whole lot more expensive than rural, conservative areas. Think San Francisco, NYC, Austin, TX, all of New England, etc)
In other words, I've always been stuck in a sort of pergatory between the two ends of the spectrum. I'm not high-brow/smart enough to fit in with the intellectual/educated crowd and I'm not low-brow/dumb enough to fit in with the "Larry the Cable Guy" crowd I was surrounded by in my youth.

Therefore I like the idea of living in another country/culture as a foreigner. The pressure to conform perfectly to a pre-existing stereotype is off, because they already expect you to be different from them. And that difference makes you seem exotic.

As for learning to speak the language, I agree 100% Ladislav, that it would be a great advantage. But as you point out,
they all seem to speak a random mix of Tagalog, English, and whatever local dialect they have. How exactly would I go
about studying such a disorganized form of communication?

[YoucancallmeAl]

Have you considered going to a country and blending with the locals? That is my preference anywhere I go, and also why I probably won't fit in the RP. I don't care how much like me the expat community is, because if I want to hang out with a group of English speaking Americans I could have stayed home. I didn't find blending with the locals, at least guys, to be a realistic possibility, for reasons Ladislav has explained at length in other posts.

Yeah, Terrence, you're probably right. I should probably just avoid the American expat community and focus on acclimating to the Filipino way.

Are you saying that blending with/hanging out with/befriending Filipino guys is not realistic? Is it because of jealousy? Where are Ladislav's posts on this subject? I'd like to read them.
thanx

[ladislav]

I should probably just avoid the American expat community and focus on acclimating to the Filipino way.

Just follow the middle way. You can find decent Americans who are into the same thing as you and hang out with them. The good ones are a few. I have made friends with several and they are cool people and can help you out in many ways with advice and networking and jobs. Something that virtually no Filipino will help you with. Completely cutting out your compatriots is a bit too extreme. Just gauge them and how they act and talk and you can make some really cool friends there. Meet some online at:

http://www.cebuliving.com - go into their forums. They will be happy to answer the questions that Filipinos have no clue about. There are many great people there. And also, many Brits and Aussies and other western folks. Very very helpful. Just avoid the sarcastic ones, the braggarts, the racists-whether black yellow, brown or white, and the colonial master wanna bes. Also those who get into illegal stuff. Just be careful but not categorical.

Well, you will be accepted by Filipino guys. They are great for the most part. It is just that it is hard to find people of the same social class as you. Most are poor. You will need to be in big cities and be going to all these parties and hanging out. Otherwise, the common people you meet will be nice but burdened with so many family responsibilities that they will constantly be asking you for money and or help or trying to get you involved in some business dealings in which you will probably lose either because of their desperate wish to improve their lives or because of them not being very competent. Plus you will be so busy hanging out with the girls that you won't have time for guys.
But they are super friendly. Don't get me wrong. You can hang out with students, those are cool. Just get ready to pay for all the meals. You are the rich one.

In other words, I've always been stuck in a sort of pergatory between the two ends of the spectrum. I'm not high-brow/smart enough to fit in with the intellectual/educated crowd and I'm not low-brow/dumb enough to fit in with the "Larry the Cable Guy" crowd I was surrounded by in my youth.

Welcome to the club. Same with me. I am despised as a sissy intellectual by thugs and as a thug by sissy intellectuals. Screw them.

Therefore I like the idea of living in another country/culture as a foreigner. The pressure to conform perfectly to a pre-existing stereotype is off, because they already expect you to be different from them. And that difference makes you seem exotic.

Just pick the right country. Thailand for one is not good. Either you are educated aristocratic and rich, or you are a dumb subhuman peasant buffalo. The buffaloes will despise you for being rich and rip you off while the aristocrats will see you as subhuman for not being one of them, The Philippines is so much more egalitarian and open! You will fit in.

As for learning to speak the language, I agree 100% Ladislav, that it would be a great advantage. But as you point out,
they all seem to speak a random mix of Tagalog, English, and whatever local dialect they have. How exactly would I go
about studying such a disorganized form of communication?

Study the formal language first. Then you will have to add the slang to it. Same as with English. And get used to all the chaos. That is what the Philippines is all about.

[pete98146]

1. I agree with Ladislav, many of the Filipino expats are going to be ex military and they tend to be older staunch republicans. After visiting RP numerous times, I find the expats tend to stay to themselves a lot. However, they do tend to get together for their "piss ups" several times a month. Finding younger liberals will be a problem.

2. Yup, I'm the one that preaches finding an educated filipina (probably ad nauseum). You'll find MANY of the educated filipinos resent life back in the RP. They resent that their own country tries to hold them back and therefore they are VERY eager to ditch the behavior that you so loathe (mindless singing, dancing ie lack of general culture). My wife is very open minded and absolutely LOVES learning something new about different experiences. She also has a work ethic that won't quit. So, why not find an upper crust filipina? Guess what, many of them still love kanos. Most are still very poor by our standards. Most relish the opportunity to escape RP so they can use their god given talents to succeed in life and help support their families.

But even if they are well educated and have more on the ball, they are still filipinas who tend to love their men.

[The_Adventurer]

Are you saying that blending with/hanging out with/befriending Filipino guys is not realistic? Is it because of jealousy? Where are Ladislav's posts on this subject? I'd like to read them.
thanx

Ladisav writes a lot, so it would be hard to pinpoint where he put all of this information. You can do a search by author, though, and I highy recommend reading his stuff. One thing he does mention is jealousy. This is not in a spiteful way, by any means, but they will never be able to do financially, even the simplest things you can do. I did on occasion get treated by the guys I hung out with though, even if just to a few Red Horses. They don't care at all about you dating "their women". The guys I hung out with each had multiple girlfriends and probably think the girls I am interested in are ugly anyway.

Another reason is it will just plain be difficult to find guys you have anything in common with, and then to find guys you can trust. Some guys, unfortunately, may attempt to befriend you with other motives in mind down the road. I, personally, am a Mac user, and I found the users group and forum there to be a good way to meet people. Macs are expensive everywhere and moreso in the Philippines, so if a guy has a Mac, he has some money. The sad thing is, even in that group they talk about these same issues, not to mention protecting themselves from scams or even kidnappings. These are local guys! The owner of the house me and my friend lived in was also highly educated and rich by local standards. It was amazed to see how often even he got scammed and cheated, even by the electric company.

[ladislav]

Are you saying that blending with/hanging out with/befriending Filipino guys is not realistic? Is it because of jealousy? Where are Ladislav's posts on this subject? I'd like to read them.
thanx

Ladisav writes a lot, so it would be hard to pinpoint where he put all of this information. You can do a search by author, though, and I highy recommend reading his stuff. One thing he does mention is jealousy. This is not in a spiteful way, by any means, but they will never be able to do financially, even the simplest things you can do. I did on occasion get treated by the guys I hung out with though, even if just to a few Red Horses. They don't care at all about you dating "their women". The guys I hung out with each had multiple girlfriends and probably think the girls I am interested in are ugly anyway.

Another reason is it will just plain be difficult to find guys you have anything in common with, and then to find guys you can trust. Some guys, unfortunately, may attempt to befriend you with other motives in mind down the road. I, personally, am a Mac user, and I found the users group and forum there to be a good way to meet people. Macs are expensive everywhere and moreso in the Philippines, so if a guy has a Mac, he has some money. The sad thing is, even in that group they talk about these same issues, not to mention protecting themselves from scams or even kidnappings. These are local guys! The owner of the house me and my friend lived in was also highly educated and rich by local standards. It was amazed to see how often even he got scammed and cheated, even by the electric company.

The things I "like" about the Philippines:

Filipinos do not "discriminate" against foreigners when it comes to cheating ( unlike in Thailand where fellow Thais even rich do not get overcharged, but the smelly hairy long nosed farangs do). The Filipinos cheat and rip off each other as much as they do you. It is whoever they perceive to be rich, that is who gets ripped off. This is why rich people there live behind high walls with shards of glass sticking out of the top of the fence, barbed wire and all, and when they come out , they look in both directions to see if kidnappers, holduppers etc are coming. And then you see this naive American sauntering down the street with a big smile and a wad of dollars sticking out of his pockets. Is he insane?
Filipinos do not feel jealous of foreign guys taking their women because
a) every Filipino extended family- as in "every", has someone married to a foreigner- white, black, yellow, brown, etc. This cannot be said about Thais, Chinese, VNese, etc. So how would they get jealous if you are of the same race as their brother in law?
b)there are so many women around that it would be silly to get jealous.
c)foreigners usually like Malay looking women- and Filipinos find those "ugly". Their paragon of beauty is someone who looks Mexican or Colombian- we have those dime a dozen in our country but to them these are the high class. Asian looking people are the low class, funny as hell.
Filipinos would get jealous if you were courting a girl they are courting. But even then they stay polite most of the time.

[Mr S]

Are you saying that blending with/hanging out with/befriending Filipino guys is not realistic? Is it because of jealousy? Where are Ladislav's posts on this subject? I'd like to read them.
thanx

If your originally from the middle class or above type Westerner, hanging out with average Filipino guys will not be your main focus while your living there. For one, most of the guys come from a poor background and have little education so they will not be much sophisticated. You can occasionally hang out and drink with them or something like that but generally the lack of worldliness will become apparent quite fast. Also, most do not have much money or resources so once they feel they know you they will always ask for "favors", which are often monetary in nature. If you live in a Filipino neighborhood, the neighbors will try to be friendly and all that but I tend to be wary cause hanging out with them and accepting their food and beer in their eyes opens you up to helping them out occasionally or giving them "presents" or "gifts" on the holidays and what not. I'd rather not feel obligated to help them or give them things for free just cause they think I am rich and can afford it. I tend to keep my distance and remain a mystery to them.

In regards to educated male Filipinos, most of them will have GF's or be married already and be seriously p***y-whipped by them so generally you can't really hang out in bars or clubs unless they drag their GF's along. Most filipino guys are only single in their teens and early 20's, and if they are single they have no clue how to get with women and end up pining away for their previous ex-GF half the time. The society is not really a pick-up society, it's more about being introduced to each other by friends and going from there. So bar hopping with a single, educated Filipino guy is a rarity, unless they have spent some time in the West. I have a co-worker who is in his 30's, educated to master's degree level, speaks perfect English and has absolutely no game with women. The few times I've taken him out bar hopping he totally has no clue how to talk or approach women. I found this to be the norm with most local guys here. The dirty filipino guys with game are generally the poorer with little education, they are the ones hanging out in the bars for the most part, trying to hook up. Guys with money go to the high end bars where they can be seen and show off with their friends, not the seedy dark bars that many Western guys tend to prefer.

Most of the people in the Philippines are sheep, they just follow the heard mentality. So this is why the girls you see have crappy music and movies in their profile likes cause they generally don't have the sophistication to like much more than that. Pop music and rap/dance/techno is what most of the younger people listen to and know. They wouldn't know much rock music or any other kind unless it was played in the clubs, which occasionally the more popular songs get played but they are still the popular songs you've heard million times over on the radio back home growing up.

Most Filipina's are just simple girls, not much to them. Many look really hot up to their mid to late 20's, they can do basic stuff like cook, clean, iron, go shopping for basics, have half-way decent sex once they have experience in the area (most girls at first are too shy to do much), have babies fairly easy, I would only say some make good mothers, not all. The party girls that you meet in the bars and clubs look hot and offer great sex and what not, but would they make a good mother? Most likely not. Most that have a baby out of wedlock dump their kid or kids on their parents so that they can continue partying or working in the bar. They get totally sucked into the lifestyle and would rather continue living in the fantasy then grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

BTW, most Filipinos mature very late in life usually past 25 years old. So most girls you meet may be around 20 something but will still act like 14-16 yr olds. I suppose this is why older guys gravitate to them so much cause they can feel like a daddy to them and the girls will take care of them in the right way if you know what i mean.

I've always wondered when a Westerner is considered "old" in the Philippines, cause the girls will always ask "how young are you?" and it seems no matter what answer you give them they will say you are still young. I've figured out when the girls start calling you "daddy" that's when you are officially considered old in the Philippines...

But Daddy is still good cause it means the girls will still hang with you they just expect you to spend money on them...I can still get away with not spending much because of my looks and health. I wonder what it will be like 5-10 years down the road however...

[onezero4u]

i laughed when you said "europe and free education" haha

only a true liberal believes the government gives away anything for free.

its called taxes and national debt to get your "free" education.

seriously, your best match is probly Berkely or france.

[YoucancallmeAl]

i laughed when you said "europe and free education" haha
only a true liberal believes the government gives away anything for free.
its called taxes and national debt to get your "free" education.
seriously, your best match is probly Berkely or france.

Spoken like a true FOX-watching dittohead.
NEWSFLASH: Nobody's stupid enough to think government just "gives away" stuff without collecting taxes for it, not even us "true liberals".
As for your variation on the oh-so-tired "just move to France" quip, Don't you think I would if I could?
I'd love to live permanently in France but they won't take me. They have very strict immigration policies. And I don't meet their criteria.
My only shot is to marry a French woman and it's near impossible to find one that isn't old and fat on the international dating sites.

I could say a lot more (like addressing your flawed "social programs = debt" logic) but I promised myself I wouldn't get into political debates on this forum. I've wasted far too much time in the past banging my head against the wall trying to use logic and reason with right-wingers in the US. I'm going overseas to escape from that. And to get as far away from the US as possible before the far-right "free-market" corporatists succeed in their deliberate plan to turn the US into a third-world country.

[gsjackson]

In other posts you will find him questioning American military intervention in the middle east, characterizing the U.S. as a police state, and comparing the U.S. to Rome. It seems pretty obvious that, like several people on here, he's a libertarian and not a dittohead.

You know you can spend six months out of the year in France on a tourist visa (assuming you don't want to just go underground and stay full-time non-legally, as a lot of people do). Stay for three months, leave for three, come back for three. You can also get student visas for up to two years just for studying French in one of the language schools, such as Alliance Francaise. Once you have the student visa, you're permitted to work there up to 20 hours a week. If you want to marry a French woman, you need to go to France. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[YoucancallmeAl]

In other posts you will find him questioning American military intervention in the middle east, characterizing the U.S. as a police state, and comparing the U.S. to Rome. It seems pretty obvious that, like several people on here, he's a libertarian and not a dittohead.
.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with libertarians on those issues, I applaud their drive to expose the Federal Reserve, and I respect the integrity of guys like Ron Paul. But when it comes to economic policies, most libertarians sound exactly like far-right Republicans and advocate the same Randian "free-market" corporation-deregulating "taxed-enough-already" policies that have destroyed the middle-class and caused the global economic crisis in the first place.
What most libertarians don't realize is that the economic "freedom" they so crave includes the freedom for sociopaths to exploit, victimize, and discard those in society who are weaker. I can't get behind that. After all, there's a reason the US has such higher crime rates, illiteracy rates, poverty rates, incarceration rates, infant mortality rates, etc than any other wealthy country.

You know you can spend six months out of the year in France on a tourist visa (assuming you don't want to just go underground and stay full-time non-legally, as a lot of people do). Stay for three months, leave for three, come back for three. You can also get student visas for up to two years just for studying French in one of the language schools, such as Alliance Francaise. Once you have the student visa, you're permitted to work there up to 20 hours a week. If you want to marry a French woman, you need to go to France. Where there's a will, there's a way.

But like American women (and all wealthy countries), attractive French women are too picky/demanding. I'd need some amazing PUA skills there.
And don't you need to be under 30 to get the student visas? I'm 41.

[ladislav]

I've always wondered when a Westerner is considered "old" in the Philippines, cause the girls will always ask "how young are you?" and it seems no matter what answer you give them they will say you are still young. I've figured out when the girls start calling you "daddy" that's when you are officially considered old in the Philippines...

And excellent analysis of the Philippines. I'd like to add a few things: bar girls can only make good wives if they are virgins who had been coaxed/coerced into dancing in the bar. I have known lots of cherry-virgin, fresh girls whose only job is to dance on stage and to sit with customers. I would say that 2 weeks is a window period during which you can whisk her away and have a serious talk with her. If they are under 20 they have no brain yet and can still be molded into a responsible society girl. But they are still stigmatized for life. So this has to be kept a secret and never mentioned again after you have had a few sermons with her. I would even involve her parents and have her mom and dad talk to her. Usually they do not know what is going on. After they have been shamed, well, it is now in the past.

As far as your age question. Well, I am 50 and I will just quote my own favorite saying- "you are only as old as you look". That is, relative to the people around you. I have declared a war on aging because I wasted my youth in wastelands such as the US, Canada, Japan, Saudi, Kuwait, Oman, Puerto Rico, and other social deserts/ hellholes populated by hissing alien-like women who would respond to my courtship in a manner resembling something like this:





So, now I take anti oxidants and vitamins, I have a couple of undetectable hair pieces, new teeth and I try and dress and act like a person who is 30+. I also hang out with women who are under 25 and who have no kids. Their energy infects me and I basically get younger. Only one girl called me " daddy", but I don't know if it was because of age or because I would give her long lectures on behavior, future, studies, etc. Also it is worthy of being noted here that Filipina girls call their husband ( common law or legal) "daddy" regardless of age, especially if they have kids together.

On one day when I was obviously looking tired and upset, some kinds refered to me as lolo.- gramps. That was scary. I asked Filipinos and heard that even a guy who is 40 would be called lolo by little kids.

When is a Westerner old? Well, when he is wrinkled up, gray haired or bald, when he acts old, when his voice is husky and old-sounding, when he has a big gut and moved slowly and well, when he is in fact, old. One can avoid it by looking younger because guys around them look old at your age, mainly because they are married and have kids and grandkids and do belong to another generation socially, while you only belong to it chronologically.

To illustrate- a picture is worth a thousand words:

Silvester Stallone at 64






Or Mick Jagger at 64



is not old to such a Filipina.

While someone like this would be old:

[gsjackson]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with libertarians on those issues, I applaud their drive to expose the Federal Reserve, and I respect the integrity of guys like Ron Paul. But when it comes to economic policies, most libertarians sound exactly like far-right Republicans and advocate the same Randian "free-market" corporation-deregulating "taxed-enough-already" policies that have destroyed the middle-class and caused the global economic crisis in the first place.
What most libertarians don't realize is that the economic "freedom" they so crave includes the freedom for sociopaths to exploit, victimize, and discard those in society who are weaker. I can't get behind that. After all, there's a reason the US has such higher crime rates, illiteracy rates, poverty rates, incarceration rates, infant mortality rates, etc than any other wealthy country.



But like American women (and all wealthy countries), attractive French women are too picky/demanding. I'd need some amazing PUA skills there.
And don't you need to be under 30 to get the student visas? I'm 41.

Agree with the political position, disagree about any age limit for a student visa in France. I've not been able to find one. You might have to provide proof of health insurance if you're over 28. Check with the local consulate to be sure.

One of the worst things you can do as far as getting next to women is assign yourself some sort of socio-sexual ranking, especially if it's a low one. As for PUA skills, which, according to the PUA scammers, will enhance the ranking -- read Grunt's recent post on the subject in the PUA thread; it sums things up about as well as possible in three or four very eloquent sentences. You are who you are --- some women will go for it some won't. Unlike the US, in France you will find lots of women who like to talk about politics. As soon as you have overcome their presumption that, as an American, you are a moronic dittohead, they will look upon you as a sort of paragon, a shining beacon of enlightenment in a benighted land. That gets you in the door; just don't screw it up from there by listening to the little bitch voice inside telling you that you don't measure up. Believe me, there are no such standards in force out there, especially outside the US. You either hit it off with the woman, or you don't, and it has nothing to do with any sort of ranking. Be as healthy and presentable as you can be, and then just be yourself.

[YoucancallmeAl]

Unlike the US, in France you will find lots of women who like to talk about politics. As soon as you have overcome their presumption that, as an American, you are a moronic dittohead, they will look upon you as a sort of paragon, a shining beacon of enlightenment in a benighted land. That gets you in the door; just don't screw it up from there by listening to the little bitch voice inside telling you that you don't measure up. Believe me, there are no such standards in force out there, especially outside the US. You either hit it off with the woman, or you don't, and it has nothing to do with any sort of ranking. Be as healthy and presentable as you can be, and then just be yourself.

Hmmm, you make the French option sound enticing. Do you speak from experience there?
But I've already bought my flight to Philippines for Jan.17, so I've committed to trying that first.