Why are people so quick to tell you to lower your standards?

[mattyman]

Hello there, haven't been here in a while but anyway, there's something I'm itching to ask.

Have you noticed that as a guy if you state what sort of girl you find attractive (e.g. pretty, slim, feminine etc.) you'll often be told to lower your standards, that that is 'out of your league' or that you're 'entitled' or otherwise a horrible bad person just for finding that attractive, no matter how modest or how many disclaimers. There are some people out there who will never be satisfied until you say 'I'll accept what I can get', 'I'll go for what I'm not attracted to'. Now, I'm not here to bemoan that, what I do want to discuss is the likely reasons people come up with that sort of stuff. One question is WHO says this sort of stuff as a response? What sorts of people? Do they say things like that as a way to be helpful or is it due to some sort of insecurity? If people call you entitled or tell you to lower your standards in a condescending manner, that rules out the altruistic motivation.

I bet you your bottom dollar that the sorts of people who tell you that you're entitled and to lower your standards are either a) people with hang-ups & insecurities about their own attractiveness &b b) people with such low self-esteem who live by the philosophy of 'if I don't have any expectations I won't be disappointed' (how sad).

Another explanation for why people accuse you of being 'entitled' is that they're jumping to the conclusion that you won't give someone the time of day because they're not attractive to you. What you find attractive you can't control; if you see two women in the street, one middle-aged looking like the Michelin man, and the other a slim blonde in tight denim shorts, which one is your head going to turn to? Just because the less attractive one doesn't turn heads doesn't mean you won't give them the time of day. They're jumping to the conclusion that you don't give people the time of day. There's a difference between being attracted and w.

As for people with hangups. Now, everyone knows deep down that women find taller guys attractive, and that guys find slimmer, feminine women attractive. As a guy, by stating what you find attractive, it probably triggers a fear in women who have hang-ups 'what if no-one will be attracted to me' & if they're not single 'what if my fellow leaves me' at the back of the mind.

Here's another interesting observation, I've seen the very worst of this on communities for people with social anxiety and other mental health problems more than any other type of online community (where you get a lot of grievances of loneliness and datelessness). Ironically, the very sources of support are the ones where it's least socially-acceptable to have preferences and desires, where it's only acceptable to say 'I will lower my standards to the point where I'll go for what I'm not attracted to'. As I said, you can't force yourself to be attracted to something you're not. I think it's very reasonable to expect to date someone you at least find attractive.

[Neo]

I've had women say similar things to me in person. The simple solution though, is to stop discussing personal preferences with other people.

Whenever someone opens up his heart to discuss his personal opinions, desires, hopes, wishes, dreams, preferences, aspirations, fears, or anything else that comes from deep down, he should expect someone to come along to cut him down. I've learned to just keep it to myself.

In many ways a man is his own best counselor. The problem is that it is natural to seek companionship and camaraderie, but it's nearly impossible to find someone pure enough not to judge or condemn you for your feelings.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Because you are a mere man, a second class citizen in the West so how dare you have high standards when only women are entitled to those?

The balance of value between women and men are so tilted towards females now, that a man claiming he wants better than the norm shocks the system currently in place. Men wholesale wanting higher standards would require women to get in shape, correct personality flaws, and work on themselves.

Ask yourself why black women go batsheet crazy when a black man dares to have standards that include non-black women only? They are reacting to the perceived loss of what they feel entitled to by virtue of birth. Mainstream women are similar in that they shame men who dare want more than they can offer.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

Bwattyman welcome back! It's been a long time like Rakim. Just kidding but where have you been???!?!??

[flowerthief00]

"Lower your standards" is a thing I only hear women say. You should understand that when they say such a thing they are projecting their own tendencies onto men.

There have been studies which show that women will lower their standards in the dating market according to what they think they can get, whereas men will shoot for the moon. I think this difference between the genders can be explained by the fact that women have traditionally relied on men for survival. For her physical and financial security it was of critical importance that a woman select some man even if it had to be a man she wasn't attracted to.

In the modern age women do not need men as before, but they retain this behavioral tendency reinforced over countless generations. It's the way they think so they expect you to think the same way.

That women find it acceptable that one should select a mate one is not attracted to should cause you to wonder how much interest women even have in "love"....

[mattyman]

Hi all! Excuse the delay to respond, so much rubbish to deal with. Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate all the viewpoints. Anyway.

I want to acknowledge the main consensus that THIS OBJECTION COMES MAINLY FROM WOMEN. Couldn't agree more. There's probably two things going on here.

Firstly there is this fear. On various other forums when you say you like x type of girl (even if you put in a disclaimer like a few extra pounds if she was a decent person and nice enough) a lot of the hostile replies are based on emotion and fear. Perhaps what's going on is the thought 'if this guy wants this type of woman, does that mean no-one will find me attractive' or if they are in a relationship (or had no problem) 'will this guy leave me for someone like that?' . That's the logical thing I can think of.

Second there's a jump to a conclusion. There seems to be this assumption & conclusion that some people jump to that you'll only talk to or give a chance to people who look like a Victoria's secret model just by saying you prefer slim to non-overweight women. What makes your head turn doesn't make you evil for finding that attractive, and doesn't mean you don't give people who don't make your head turn the time of day. What women need to read; just because you're not a head-turner doesn't mean that people won't talk to you or approach you (it's nasty attitude and hate that's the reason why).

Look, I'm quite happy to acknowledge that women find taller guys attractive on average (partly because I am not short myself), more confident guys attractive, more successful guys attractive. If I am willing to a) accept our natural preferences and even b) be willing to adapt, then why aren't they willing to acknowledge what men find attractive?

Both of us men and women have those things 'what if no-one will ever be interested in me because of x, y, z attribute', what about that 'bigger better deal'. Keeps many a single person wake.

For the record, I would like to observe & compare the replies women get on forums, social media and real life regarding what hey find attractive (especially anglo) vs. men.

[jamesbond]

Because you are a mere man, a second class citizen in the West so how dare you have high standards when only women are entitled to those?

The balance of value between women and men are so tilted towards females now, that a man claiming he wants better than the norm shocks the system currently in place. Men wholesale wanting higher standards would require women to get in shape, correct personality flaws, and work on themselves.

In western countries, men are only allowed to have "preferences" women on the other hand can have "standards" and this idea is pushed through movies and TV shows.

[MrMan]

Why are you discussing your preferences with other people?

Physical attraction is a kind of instinctive thing. If you find a girl attractive, you find her attractive. I read a post on a forum once where a woman asked, haven't you seen a girl you did not think was attractive, but after you got to know her, you thought she was pretty. My answer was 'no.' Back when I was single and looking, I might have seen a girl I thought was pretty, and then found her more attractive if she had cute mannerisms, could sing well, was kind, had values in common with myself, etc. But attraction had to be there. If someone asks you to lower your standards, you aren't going to suddenly start finding girls with masculine jaws, fat waste lines, or whatever you find unappealing suddenly attractive.

It's kind of like you say, "I can't stand the taste of raw onions." And your friend says, "Like onions. Here, eat these onions." That's not going to make you like onions.

Maybe the people saying this to you don't think you are good-looking and want to match you up with someone else. If these are girls, maybe they want you to lower their standard to their own level of looks. Or a friend of a girl who likes you could have sent her to you to try to influence you.

Back in high school, we were assigned certain places to do leg lifts, rockies, etc. before playing basketball. There was a rather hefty brunette in front of me. In art class, her red-headed friend asked me if I would 'go with' the brunette. I declined as politely as I knew how. She told her friend. Her friend asked me, through the redhead in art class, "Is it because she is fat?" I don't think I directly answered the question. The whole situation was just really weird. I said if I didn't want to 'go with' her, I didn't want to 'go with' her. I probably didn't say this, but I just wasn't attracted to the girl. Being fat was part of that. I don't know if I'd have been the slightest bit interested if she were thin. Sometimes it's like girls think they have a right to date you or set you up with someone they think you should date.

There isn't much use discussing these things unless you actually want your friends' or relatives' help setting you up. That's probably fine if you aren't particular about looks. There is probably a small percentage of guys like that, and maybe a larger percentage of girls if the guy rings her bells in some other way, through status, strength, skills (e.g. bow-hunting skills )or whatever it is she likes that isn't purely looks-related.

What does make sense is adding some other criteria to what you are looking for. If you have a girlfriend who is beautiful, but it turns out she is selfish and loud and you break up, the next time you know not to date selfish loud girls. Or you could listen to advice from someone else not to date selfish loud girls and exclude such women from the get go. If girls you consider 8's are good-enough looking for you, you might go with an 8 on your personal looks scale if she is a really great person in all areas.

[MrMan]

Firstly there is this fear. On various other forums when you say you like x type of girl (even if you put in a disclaimer like a few extra pounds if she was a decent person and nice enough) a lot of the hostile replies are based on emotion and fear. Perhaps what's going on is the thought 'if this guy wants this type of woman, does that mean no-one will find me attractive' or if they are in a relationship (or had no problem) 'will this guy leave me for someone like that?' . That's the logical thing I can think of.

Second there's a jump to a conclusion. There seems to be this assumption & conclusion that some people jump to that you'll only talk to or give a chance to people who look like a Victoria's secret model just by saying you prefer slim to non-overweight women. What makes your head turn doesn't make you evil for finding that attractive, and doesn't mean you don't give people who don't make your head turn the time of day. What women need to read; just because you're not a head-turner doesn't mean that people won't talk to you or approach you (it's nasty attitude and hate that's the reason why).

I suppose people who post here might be the type to like to participate in forums. But I don't see why men would post about what they find physically attractive in women on a more co-ed forum. We know how western women react to anything that threatens them. You can have your preferences and make your decisions based on that.

But I have a question for men who do online dating and post profiles about themselves. Do you have to state what kind of 'poundage' you are looking for in a woman, or do you just select women based on stats like weight and age? Can you turn off your profile to women based on weight to height ratios?

If you actually were to post in your profile that you are attracted to either slim and petite or slim and athletic women or something along those lines that communicates you don't want to date fat women, would you get nasty responses from women on a dating site?

[HappyGuy]

"Lower your standards" is a thing I only hear women say. You should understand that when they say such a thing they are projecting their own tendencies onto men.

This is accurate

There have been studies which show that women will lower their standards in the dating market according to what they think they can get, whereas men will shoot for the moon.

In the modern age women do not need men as before, but they retain this behavioral tendency reinforced over countless generations. It's the way they think so they expect you to think the same way.

Where have you been? Maybe it's like this in Brazil where every fat guy has a beauty on his arm but in America for at least the last 20 years many women refuse to settle and men will settle for anything with a hole. So you get millions of lonely single men, and millions of lesbians who hate all men because they couldn't bag one in the top 1%. When women tell you to lower your standards they are projecting their own shallowness and telling you to do what they'd never do themselves. The women who aren't shallow and will date ugly guys even if they are very sexy themselves assume everyone is kind like them and wouldn't accuse you of being an asshole even though most men are.

That women find it acceptable that one should select a mate one is not attracted to should cause you to wonder how much interest women even have in "love"....

Actually they're giving love a chance by going for the dependable guy unlike pigs like you who were brought up by movies and porn to feel entitled to women with better genes than yourself. Love has nothing to do with sexual selection, love is the opposite emotion of lust. One comes from loving the person on the inside, one comes from having your hormones turned on by the person on the outside. Which is why if you want to experience love you shouldn't date someone above you in looks, nor someone much uglier than you or she may have lust for you. Date someone as close to you in looks and personality which might take years to find and you might be one of the few with it in your life.

Most women today are not interested in love, or they have given up on it after too many shallow boyfriends. Now they are only looking for money and good looks for sex, what they value more depends on their age mostly. Most men today also do not believe in love, actually there are more women that do than men. It's a misconception in the west that women are the shallow ones. That might be true elsewhere like the 3rd world but in the west men are the shallow and money obsessed pigs and women are the romantics.

[Neo]

I try not to talk about my preferences in women (what do they have to do with it any way?). I also no longer expect compassion or fairness from people. So figuring this, I just try to minimize the interaction, unless I have found the person to be trustworthy.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again, and rend you.

[HappyGuy]

I also no longer expect compassion or fairness from people.

Let's not forget this also depends on where you live, the people aren't mean everywhere. It might be normal for an adult to not expect compassion and understanding from others but it might also be our reactionary strategy because we live amongst shit people. And by not being able to talk about something we would have otherwise talked about if we lived in a healthy community in the past, we could be stripping away our humanity or not be getting some crucial ingredient for our mental health. Who knows how many things we've been forced to change about ourselves just to adapt to these bad circumstances.

[Neo]

Part of it must be the need for validation from others, but after seeing the end result of what saying deep things to others brings upon me, it seems better just to not bother.

Now I just write my thoughts down in a journal. That seems to do just as much good, but no one to write back hateful words. Sometimes a man is his own best counselor.

[HappyGuy]

I agree, other people don't know what's best for you only you do, and they won't have to live with the consequences of their advice only you will, so their advice is not useful most of the time. People look to others for guidance when they should be looking within themselves. Not doing what you think is right creates regrets, and other people who pressure you in another direction won't have to live with those regrets but you will.

[Neo]

I agree, other people don't know what's best for you only you do, and they won't have to live with the consequences of their advice only you will, so their advice is not useful most of the time. People look to others for guidance when they should be looking within themselves. Not doing what you think is right creates regrets, and other people who pressure you in another direction won't have to live with those regrets but you will.

Many people are self-centered and only speak according to their pride, regarding matters of the heart. They only give the advice to others that best serves the self, not the other person, rendering their advice worthless. So for example, if a woman thinks that women should rule and that men should kneel, then her advice will conform to that delusion.