True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage

[Winston]

Have any of you noticed something? Society is too extreme in that it ALWAYS wants you to live for others and never for yourself: When you are a child, you live to serve your parents and teachers and school system and must be obedient to them (despite being told that you live in a "free country" if you're in America, go figure). When you get out of school, you are expected to get a job and serve the needs of your employer and company, putting their needs above your own. Then you are expected to get married and start a family. Once you do that, you serve their needs and live for them, putting your family's needs above yours. This is especially the case when it comes to children, you are expected to put their needs ABOVE yours and serve all their needs as though you were your kids' slave and servant and owed them everything.

So you see, if you do what society told you to do and be, and followed the ideal life set by society, you essentially NEVER get to live for yourself. You NEVER get to do what you want and what you love. You ALWAYS serve the needs of others. You are ALWAYS enslaved to others needs. In short, you NEVER get to truly live for yourself.

So what's all this talk about freedom? Freedom what? Freedom to always serve the needs of others and never for yourself? But alas, this is normal and it is what you are supposed to want.

[publicduende]

Have any of you noticed something? Society is too extreme in that it ALWAYS wants you to live for others and never for yourself: When you are a child, you live to serve your parents and teachers and school system and must be obedient to them (despite being told that you live in a "free country" if you're in America, go figure). When you get out of school, you are expected to get a job and serve the needs of your employer and company, putting their needs above your own. Then you are expected to get married and start a family. Once you do that, you serve their needs and live for them, putting your family's needs above yours. This is especially the case when it comes to children, you are expected to put their needs ABOVE yours and serve all their needs as though you were your kids' slave and servant and owed them everything.

So you see, if you do what society told you to do and be, and followed the ideal life set by society, you essentially NEVER get to live for yourself. You NEVER get to do what you want and what you love. You ALWAYS serve the needs of others. You are ALWAYS enslaved to others needs. In short, you NEVER get to truly live for yourself.

So what's all this talk about freedom? Freedom what? Freedom to always serve the needs of others and never for yourself? But alas, this is normal and it is what you are supposed to want.

That is a decent piece of logic, until you start noticing that a number of men, perhaps not "most of them" but "enough of them", actually like to serve their wives and children, and even their employers. Every bond of love, or even one of simple respect and loyalty, does involve sacrificing something of one's personal freedom so others can benefit.

On other posts, several members feel nostalgic for the good ol' marriage of yesteryear, the one where wives are sweet, feminine and attentive to their men's and kids' needs. They usually forgot to remember that an equal sense of devotion was expected and often exercised by the husbands and fathers as well, in equal measure if not a higher, since many were the sole breadwinners in the family.

It's always a matter of personal choice and balance. Some people here find your conduct reprehensible, and it might well be. Yet you are at least showing the courage to be yourself and consistent with your principles. By the same token I think you should have respect for those who decide to live for the others out of genuine love and desire to have a good family and be productive members of society.

[IraqVet2003]

Very interesting post!!!! I myself don't have any children nor do I have a mortgage. Also, as a guy at age 42, I never have been married and I don't feel I missed out on anything. And I agree with Winston that there is a certain freedom of being single and without kids. However, I think some of you H.A. fellows may be interested in this recent article entitled:

"Why More Women Are Choosing Not to Have Children"

http://www.yahoo.com/parenting/why-more-women

Also, check out this youtube video by Sandman: "Shaming Single Men".

[TheLight954]

What do you think about a post-apocalyptic society?

[statnerd]

I don't have a marriage, children, or mortgage. I live frugally, and I'm planning on ditching the working world in my mid to late 40s to move abroad.

Spending my days eating wonderful food, exploring, travelling to nearby countries, learning a new language, and adjusting to a different culture will be a heck of a lot more satisfying than shuffling papers and putting up with crabby bosses and co-workers in a cube farm. Marriage, children, and mortgage are all about constraints which is why I have never been interested. The only reason why I've had jobs is for the money.

[Zambales]

I've never been married, had a mortgage or had kids but I've still felt imprisoned. I've taken inspiration from Henri "Papillon" Charrière and I know now my time for freedom is close. The secret is never to give up and to fight tooth and nail for what's rightfully yours. It's your world as much as anyone else's and nobody has the right to dictate to you if you're a peace loving individual who wishes no harm to others.

[Zambales]

Out of marriage, children & a mortgage, the latter is the one that should be avoided. I'm not totally against marriage but you need to choose extremely wisely and she has be a model wife, and a mother, if you decide to have kids. You also need to be financially adept. Struggling to make ends meet coupled with bringing up a family is for suckers.

I was never that interested in having kids anyway and I'm past that stage now. I enjoy my own space and time immensely so kids aren't really suited to my personality. I just want to be free from toiling for meagre pay in a toxic society and I would like to share my freedom with a good woman who doesn't want to have kids and likes to travel. Whoever that is will have to earn that right though. Those who enjoy free lunches need not apply.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I am always sceptical of enslaved men who claim that they are happy in their servitude to wife and family. They have to work themselves to early death, they are always in debt, and their children frequently turn out to be disasters soon to be unleashed on society.

I think since these men are programmed from an early age to acheive this model, they consider themselves happy because they achieved what the model requires.

That there are fathers who kill themselves, leave their families, and abandon their children is proof that such a life is not all roses and rainbows. Quite frankly, it sucks as a lifestyle, but these guys are forced to fool themselves into thinking they are "happy" when we all know they are not.

Don't believe me, just listen to some of the weak justifications they give for being so "happy." Some of you might remember @MrMAN bragging that he gets to have boring sex with the same aging hag that is his wive, and his wive keeps his social calender for him so he can be dragged around town like a rag doll by his wife. That sounds MISERABLE, but these guys cannnot bring themselves to actually admit it.

How many of these idiots actually appear "happy?" I bet they all would claim to be so if asked.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

Those guys don't look happy if they have all "dad bodes" like that lower-right picture. Just saying.

[flowerthief00]

IF you live in a place with traditional patriarchal laws and culture, traditional patriarchal marriage is fine and dandy. The man has the authority, the man has the final say in each decision. Neither his family nor his money can be arbitrarily taken from him, incentivizing him to invest in wife, kids, and home. Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

If instead you live in a place with egalitarian laws and culture such as a Western country...just forget about a traditional marriage! Run screaming from the very idea!
Don't even look for the "right" woman. The right woman can become the wrong woman later down the line and leave you on a whim taking from you everything you built. Only a fool enters into traditional marriage in a Western country.

If you live in an egalitarian country, egalitarian marriage is the only kind of marriage that should ever be considered.
By that I mean a marriage in which the woman contributes equally to the man. She needs to be earning her own money, paying half of the rent, half of all expenses. And since it is difficult to raise kids when both parents are working (and they tend not to turn out so well), having any kids at all is not recommended, thus defeating the main reason for marriage in the first place.

Therefore, egalitarian marriage is close to being pointless. But it is an option for those who still want it.

What's that you say? You say you can't find a woman who will marry a man who isn't making more money than herself? You say you've seen statistics that women are apt to abandon and/or cheat on men who aren't contributing more to the relationship than herself?

Well, that should tell you something about women's capacity to actually love as an equal.

Perhaps after enough generations of women dying alone (complaining "where have all the good men gone?" all the while) they will evolve the capacity. This can only happen if men marry ONLY the ones who are actually able to live up to the egalitarian model Westerners are hell-bent on following until the miracle happens, or until Western society collapses due to low birth rate, whichever comes first.

[Moretorque]

If people can find happiness in marriage and family I think that is great but for me and being informed as I am to a degree I will pass. Future generations planet here has turned into a complete mess in to many regards for my taste to nest here and indicaters are a major die off of humanity is coming shortly and denying this is well in denial.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

IF you live in a place with traditional patriarchal laws and culture, traditional patriarchal marriage is fine and dandy. The man has the authority, the man has the final say in each decision.

Even that is a myth. Esther Vilar's book, The Manipulated Man, debunks this misconception so thoroughly that if you read that book, you'll be furious at the people who created this impression in your mind.

Neither his family nor his money can be arbitrarily taken from him, incentivizing him to invest in wife, kids, and home.

Not true.... Hypergamy is ALWAYS at threat to a man. High-value or extremely beautiful women in traditional societies are known to trade up to a higher status husband when they can, or to become pregnant by a higher value man while the lesser man raises the offspring as his own. This is the true cuckold scenario and the term comes from traditional, patriarchal times.

Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

Poppycock! If that is what you consider "the payoff," than your life must be devoid of any true joy and satisfaction. Without even touching the issue of kids who grow up to be huge disappointments, I think it is foolish to slave away to wife and family just for the possibility of having offspring to leave behind.

You come into the world alone and you will leave it alone also. Having a smattering of people around your deathbed does not justify being a miserable slave to wife and family. Everyone's life sucks at the end! It is retarded to design your entire life around the possibility that your end of life experience might be a little less sucky because you will not be alone. A better strategy is to life your life to full enjoyment with freedom, wealth, health, adventure, professional accomplishment, and fulfillment. Those of us who do that know that living 70 years of absolute bliss, and 5 years of decline is far better than 60 years of work and servitude and 20 years of family assisted decline. Note that the married man lives to 80 versus 75 for the free man. Those are extra years that I would gladly forgo just to have the privilege of living free, happy, and absolutely fulfilled.

-Never listen to married men who want you to sacrifice and suffer just as they do.
-Never listen to women who want you to aspire to be a slave for some woman somewhere.
-Never listen to religious nuts who simply want to advance the agenda of their faith, your agenda be damned.
-Never listen to "traditionalists" who have no clue that the agenda of the tradition is not in your interest as a man.
-Stay MGTOW or deeply regret it later.

[Zambales]

IF Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

[Cornfed]

Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

A cat won't look after you and nor will the government. You just need to accept that you're f***ed.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

IF Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

Very much correct, although I am in my fifties now and I am having more fun than most 20 year olds are having. I don't know how long this "fun" will last, but I still prefer it over a wife and family to whom I choose to be enslaved