Japan's MGTOW: Hikikomori men locking themselves

[Adama]

Don't believe everything you're told. MGTOW are not brave crusaders. They're just cowards.


Hikikomori: Japanese men locking themselves in their bedrooms for years, creating social and health problem
7.30
By North Asia correspondent Matthew Carney

Updated 20 Jul 2015, 12:19am

Japanese health professionals are now scrambling to stop the next generation from suffering the same fate.

Not only is the condition shattering families, it is also threatening the country's economy.

For nearly three years, Yuto Onishi's world was his small bedroom in Tokyo.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-07/h ... ms/6601656


Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?
By William Kremer and Claudia Hammond BBC World Service

5 July 2013
As many as a million young people in Japan are thought to remain holed up in their homes - sometimes for decades at a time. Why?

Tamaki Saito was a newly qualified psychiatrist when, in the early 1990s, he was struck by the number of parents who sought his help with children who had quit school and hidden themselves away for months and sometimes years at a time. These young people were often from middle-class families, they were almost always male, and the average age for their withdrawal was 15.

"They are tormented in the mind," he says. "They want to go out in the world, they want to make friends or lovers, but they can't."

Since he drew attention to the phenomenon, it is thought the numbers of hikikomori have increased. A conservative estimate of the number of people now affected is 200,000, but a 2010 survey for the Japanese Cabinet Office came back with a much higher figure - 700,000. Since sufferers are by definition hidden away, Saito himself places the figure higher still, at around one million.

The average age of hikikomori also seems to have risen over the last two decades. Before it was 21 - now it is 32.

For a time one company operating in Nagoya could be hired by parents to burst into their children's rooms, give them a big dressing down, and forcibly drag them away to a dormitory to learn the error of their ways.

Kazuhiko Saito, the director of the psychiatry department at Kohnodai Hospital in Chiba, says that sudden interventions - even by healthcare professionals - can prove disastrous.

"In many cases, the patient becomes violent towards the staff or the parents in front of the counsellors, or after the counsellors have left," he says.

[pete98146]

Yikes...just imagine once virtual reality is perfected and content becomes readily available.....

[jamesbond]

Just imagine when sex dolls become mainstream in the world. There will be millions of men who won't go near women at all. You think MGTOW is big now, just wait until every man has his very own life like sex doll to play with.

[Yohan]

The average age of hikikomori also seems to have risen over the last two decades. Before it was 21 - now it is 32.
.....
For a time one company operating in Nagoya could be hired by parents to burst into their children's rooms, give them a big dressing down, and forcibly drag them away to a dormitory to learn the error of their ways.

I never heard of such a strange company, but for sure it's not operating anymore, such activity is clearly illegal - you cannot without permission entering rooms in a private house and forcibly drag an adult person away to another place.

These young men are freaks, but they do not harm anybody.
To stay at home alone in Japan is still better than to get out in the streets in USA and to join a fraternity gang selling drugs and robbing people at knife-point. Better live in your home in Japan than serve time in a jail in the States.

I have no idea how many they are, but if they are even 1 million, this is 0.8 percent of the population, less than 1 out of 100. Japan has now 127 million people.

Itis true, that the majority of young Japanese people, both men and women, is not into sex, but many of them are very outgoing obsessed with parties, restaurant-eating, often join domestic/international group-travel bus bus/airplane, etc.

It's easier for women than for men to get along here in Japan in such a situation. The article made it clear, it's mostly men suffering from isolation.

[Yohan]

Don't believe everything you're told. MGTOW are not brave crusaders. They're just cowards.
Hikikomori: Japanese men locking themselves in their bedrooms for years, creating social and health problem

What has this to do with MGTOW - Men going their own way? It's more the opposite of MGTOW, these men are parasites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Middle class affluence in a post-industrial society such as Japan allows parents to support and feed an adult child in the home indefinitely. Lower-income families do not have hikikomori children because a socially withdrawing youth is forced to work outside the home.

As MGTOW you are going your own way, you do not depend on others, including your parents.

Hikikomori (social withdrawal) is only possible if another person, in general parents - pay for your life-style despite you are an adult - stupid Japanese parents offer a room, pay for health insurance/taxes, electricity, water, mobile phone, internet, food, pay for div. mail-orders (computer-stuff, manga-books, video-games etc.) - the adult son treated as a child.

Most of these 'hikikomori' are sons, as daughters are forced by their mother to go out with them, at least for daily shopping, doing some housework etc.

It has to be noticed that only parents in a good financial situation are willing to do that. Those financially-well off parents feel ashamed because of their lazy son, but the son is not ashamed to ask money from his parents and also from other relatives.

This unhealthy life-style does not exist in low-income families, also more common in cities than in rural areas where everybody knows everybody.
Such a hikikomori-guy would be forced either to work something or asked to leave, as nobody will give him money or offer accomodation for free.

Most sons (and daughters too) from poor families in general work at least a few hours a day to be able to pay for their own expenses, something like in a convenience store, gas-station, waiter/dishwasher in a family restaurant, office-cleaning-staff, collecting goods for mail-orders in a warehouse, deliveryman for pizza etc. Plenty of such small jobs are available. - Income is not that bad, working half-day, 4 to 5 hours, is around USD 50,- to USD 70,-, enough at least to pay yourself for your basic needs. Low-income parents also expect their children to offer a little payment for their room/common expenses if they prefer still to live with them as an adult - not so much, maybe only USD 200,- or 300,-.

Unlike USA such part-time jobs are not based on tips - tips do not exist in Japan, the income/hour is fix, regardless if there are customers or not.

[Adama]

Just imagine when sex dolls become mainstream in the world. There will be millions of men who won't go near women at all. You think MGTOW is big now, just wait until every man has his very own life like sex doll to play with.

A sex doll? Talk about defeat. This is something to look forward to? I wouldn't wish sex dolls on anyone. I'd rather they have a flesh and blood good wife. MGTOW prefer dolls?

I can understand the part where they "think" they are going to force women to compromise through boycott. It isn't likely but I get it.

Sex dolls? No, I don't understand that. I don't get how it could ever be a good thing. It seems more degrading than empowering or uplifting.

See, all you got to do is tell someone that something evil is actually good enough times til they'll buy it. They told women that freedom comes from working for the man, being independent, and being the boss, but they're wrong, and women fell for it.

What kind of women ONLY use dildos? Not the kind any man wants. Think about it.

Men's use of sex dolls will not destroy feminism but only serve as a proof for it in their minds. That's all men wanted anyway.

[Yohan]

Just imagine when sex dolls become mainstream in the world. There will be millions of men who won't go near women at all. You think MGTOW is big now, just wait until every man has his very own life like sex doll to play with.

I don't think so - simply said, a straight man is looking out for a straight woman only. He is not interested in anything else - not into boys, not into sex dolls.

Despite persistent abusive language against straight men, calling them rapists, perverts etc. this sexual desire cannot be changed. Straight means straight only. Yes, nowadays you get the impression you have to be ashamed, if you are a straight man. But still, whatever the feminist society is telling us - your sexual preference remains the same.

About dolls, if they are really looking like a human being, like a real woman, they are very expensive. In Japan for such people, there is a rental service available. No idea who are the customers, but maybe such people like these hikikomori might be willing to order that and pay with the creditcard of their parents?

As far as I can say about Japan, comparing the price of a real doll with services from a real woman, better look out for a real woman, Japan is not so expensive for sexual services - and you have also the choice to get on an airplane, relax, spend some days overseas in nearby much cheaper Asian countries. Much better if you ask me.

[cdnFA]

MGTOW and Hikikomori are two different things. MGTOW don't withdraw from the greater world and stay inside. Nothing in MGTOW disallows holding a job if needed or having male friends forexample.
Hikis are shutins. Shutin=/=MGTOW

Speaking of not believing everything you are told. Laugh.

[Adama]

Hikikomori are MGTOW. They are a subset. Remember that all you have to do to be MGTOW is to be single. That's why half the posters here say I am living an MGTOW.

People also say that people are more or less MGTOW without knowing it, simply by being unmarried.

There is nothing in MGTOW that says they have to get a job. It's mostly silent on this issue. There are around one million of these Japanese men unplugging from their society.

The primary parts that make this MGTOW are that these men prefer solitude over sex, they prefer videogames over human companionship, and they are ghosting.

Don't get me started on the Herbivores. I was about to post on their effeminate nature but I figured this would be enough.

[Yohan]

草食男子 soshokudanshi (herbivore men)
引きこもり hikikomori (social withdrawal)

These are 2 different kind of people,

Herbivore men (and there are also many herbivore women) are simply said not interested into marriage, children, long-term commitment, but prefer instead of it to have a lot of friends, for fun and outgoing activities. They are unwilling to do a regular job, but work to have enough to cover their own expenses.

You can consider them as MGTOW. They question why they should accept traditional life-style, working day and night to pay back house loans, working day and night to pay for higher education for their children. They prefer smaller income, less working hours, less obligations, and you cannot blame them for that as jobs nowadays in Japan are not secure anymore. What to do if you get sick, what to do if your job is gone, who will then pay all your debits?

-----

Hikikomori are NOT into MGTOW. They enjoy to live out of the wallet of others, mostly their parents and other relatives. They are unwilling to do anything productive by themselves, even unwilling to clean up their little room. The majority are just lazy people of no shame out of financially well off families - some of them are mentally disturbed too.

You find such kind of people everywhere in the world, not only in Japan.

[Yohan]

Remember that all you have to do to be MGTOW is to be single

That's not true, MGTOW means 'men going their own way' - how they go their own way is up to them.

It's about 'men have a choice too' - and not only women...
MGTOW is about men moving away from the way expected from them by their society, much to the displeasure of a feminist-friendly government.

MGTOW is not the same everywhere in this world.

MGTOW is basically the response from men against feminism. I found MGTOW most hateful in USA/UK, as US-feminism is remarkably hateful against men too.

In Europe the situation is much more polite compared to USA/UK, many feminists especially in Scandinavia try to be 'fair' and not to disturb and belittle men.

About MGTOW in other countries, their issues are not the same. India comes to my mind. A major concern for young Indian men and their parents is misuse of law IPC498a (dowry fraud), when looking for a future wife. However we here in Japan or in the Philippines do not pay a bride price nor do parents expect a dowry. Totally different needs.

[Adama]

Hikikomori are NOT into MGTOW. They enjoy to live out of the wallet of others, mostly their parents and other relatives. They are unwilling to do anything productive by themselves, even unwilling to clean up their little room. The majority are just lazy people of no shame out of financially well off families - some of them are mentally disturbed too.

You find such kind of people everywhere in the world, not only in Japan.

Nope. There are no other co-existing psychological problems for these people, as indicated for hikikomori. In other words, many of these people don't have any diagnosed mental disturbances, despite what you say.

[Adama]

The distinction between Hikikomori and "regular" MGTOWs is not needed - after all, they are both following the path of "going your own way", aren't they? The herbivore men are still productive to some degree, although I suspect a lot of them to be rather meterosexual and perhaps somewhat wired 'incorrectly', they seem like they do not possess a lot of testosterone and are not traditionally masculine. You don't hear of them sleeping around or having casual sex, so they are not like the "ideal" single man that society dictates - young, wild and free. From what I gather they are men who often care a lot about fashion, looking good, eating well, more then they care about love, sex & family. This makes them seem like their lifestyle is essentially homosexual, only minus homosexual relations as their libidos are too low.

Now as for the shut-ins, the Hikikomori, they are a very sad bunch. But they are not uniquely Japanese, as the American equivalent of this is the stereotypical "basement dweller", who also lives with his elderly parents, leeches off them and has a parasitic and unproductive lifestyle. It's not a groundbreaking phenomenon, whats shocking is the scale of this. As for the herbivore men, that seems to be a uniquely Japanese hype. I sincerely hope it stays that way and does not spread like some virus to other developed countries.

What we cannot say, Yohan, is to take one group and call them shameful (the shut-ins) and want nothing to do with them, while gladly claiming the less shameful group (the herbivore men) as "part of your tribe". That's false advertisement. There may be men among the MGTOW crowd who have their shit together, but Hikikomori are a prime example of those MGTOWs who have severe issues and absolutely haven't got their shit together. Both of these groups are MGTOW. Take the bad with the good.

Yes, they only like the type men that would bring them glory, not the type of men who would bring shame to them. These groups probably overlap in reality though. They are not mutually exclusive. One can move between groups freely, going from herbivore to hikikomori, or from hikikomori to herbivore. Speaking of which, the difference is probably similar to vegan vs vegetarian; in other words, one is just a more extreme or stricter version of the other.

And if you listen to the men on this forum, a man doesn't have to make a conscious decision to join MGTOW for MGTOW to consider them to be a part of their ranks. Apparently all a man has to do is remain single. Then he is counted in favor of the marriage strike against women, which will bring them to their knees at the negotiation table for peace. That's one less man that can be leeched off of by parasitic Western women!

[Adama]

Remember that all you have to do to be MGTOW is to be single

That's not true, MGTOW means 'men going their own way' - how they go their own way is up to them.

It's about 'men have a choice too' - and not only women...
MGTOW is about men moving away from the way expected from them by their society, much to the displeasure of a feminist-friendly government.

MGTOW is not the same everywhere in this world.

MGTOW is basically the response from men against feminism. I found MGTOW most hateful in USA/UK, as US-feminism is remarkably hateful against men too.

In Europe the situation is much more polite compared to USA/UK, many feminists especially in Scandinavia try to be 'fair' and not to disturb and belittle men.

About MGTOW in other countries, their issues are not the same. India comes to my mind. A major concern for young Indian men and their parents is misuse of law IPC498a (dowry fraud), when looking for a future wife. However we here in Japan or in the Philippines do not pay a bride price nor do parents expect a dowry. Totally different needs.

Any man who is single is living the MGTOW lifestyle and most MGTOW consider them to be unaware MGTOW who have adapted to their society's ills. You can't say that herbivore is a natural reaction but hikikomori is not. Hikikomori and herbivores are very similar, except for one or two unimportant characteristics.

[The_Adventurer]

You guys are really not getting it at all. There is absolutely no relation between hikikomori and MGTOW. First off, the hikikomori phenomenon predates MGTOW by as much as 2 decades. MGTOW is primarily an online movement. The hikikomori phenomenon began long before the internet was widely used. MGTOW is primarily a western movement and a reaction to extreme feminism. They don't have such feminism in Japan. MGTOW is specifically against what they call a gynocentric society, rules and courts that favour women etc. Hikikomori are against, pretty much everything. It has little to do with women.

The comparison to so-called American basement dwellers is way off. Most such basement dwellers have a few equally awkward or geeky friends and still have some contact with the real world. Many hikikomori literally never leave their room, ever, sometimes for as much as twenty years! It is a complete disconnect from society, in which they do not participate at all.

Isolated cases have been found in USA and other countries, but there are nearly a million in Japan... that they know of. It is truly a very Japanese thing. Professor Flavio Rizzo of the University of Tokyo defines them as "post modern hermits" whose solitude stems from ancestral desires for withdrawal.

As for Herbivore men, it has been called a subset of MGTOW, but it really isn't. It developed desperately and independently and on a completely different timetable. They are a result, largely, of Japanese socioeconomic conditions rather than a reaction to western feminism. It began with NEETS and FREETERS and simply extended into Herbivore men. It also began before MGTOW was really known. They do not make videos about or rant in forums about feminist laws and gynocentric issues, because that is not their focus. As early as the 90's the younger generation saw the path of their fathers crumble. The idea of being a salaryman, working in the same company for life, and retiring had disappeared out from under an entire generation. The idea of marriage and raising a family became economically impossible. The NEETS also felt that even the University education held no benefit. It spiralled from there.

It's americans who always want to try and take a foreign phenomenon and make into a western thing. (even if the foreign thing came first) A famous Japanese pop singer must be the "Japanese Brittany Spears" or something, because Americans can't see or relate to such foreign things.