The Main Reason Why I Am Leaving The USA

[Travel Dude]

Here in the USA, I have a job, I pay my bills and.....ah... and..thats about it.

This country is really boring to me. In the past, I have lived in Peru for 2 years on a fraction of money that I currently live on here in the US. There I was never bored. Every day was exciting and a learning experence. Not all went smooth but I felt that I was really alive and loving life in Peru.

For me, all I need is $600 to $800 per month to live in Peru..yes, I said "to live" and that is what I am looking for, just to live and enjoy life...

[jamesbond]

I have heard other guys say the same thing about the US, (that they are bored to tears living in the US, compared to the other countries they have visited). Winston said after he got back from his trips to Russia and eastern Europe that it was a big let down coming back to the United Boring States of America.

Apparently, not only is it easier to meet women in foreign countries but also it's more exciting living in foreign countries! Another reason why so many guys are "happier abroad."

[Travel Dude]

I think to key on living overseas is to find your location. For me, its Latin America, specifically the smaller towns. I have been to the small towns in Guatemala, Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico and Northern Peru where is my future is located.

For me, the smaller Peruvian towns (in the north of the country) with a warmer climate beats any American City hands down. You can see it in the peoples faces (smiles, smiles and more smiles). When it first visited the northern city of Piura, there were times that I felt uncomfortable..why? I was not use to the kindness of the local people. They really care and want to know about you. If anyone needs advice, please P/M me.

[Winston]

Can you tell us more about what Peru was like? Was it easy to meet people? How did you meet girls there? What about the culture and the food? Was it full of long sandy beaches and parties?

[Travel Dude]

Can you tell us more about what Peru was like? Was it easy to meet people? How did you meet girls there? What about the culture and the food? Was it full of long sandy beaches and parties?

Is it easy to meet women or I should say nice women in Peru? The answer is yes and no. For some reason, I had more of a difficult time in meeting women in the captial, Lima. When I left the captial and headed for the northern part of the country, everything changed. First, the people were super kind and the ladies were very friendly with me. For me, there were two different countries, the captial and the rest of Peru. As you can see, I prefer the cities in the north and the tropical regions (Chiclayo, Piura and Tarapoto). Also, the cost of living in Piura is about half of the captial but remember Lima is much cheaper than the USA.

The most beautiful white sand beaches I ever saw in my life (I have been to 50+ beaches worldwide) is in northern Peru, specifically the beaches of Punta Sal. Many of the beaches in the very north are QUIET. Punta Sal and Mancora beaches are not built up like the beaches in Mexico or Manta Ecuador. The only problem are the bumpy dirt roads that take you to the beaches. The fact that they do not have large wide highways taking tons of foreigners to the beaches makes them more private.

Peru also has the best food in Latin America second only to Mexico. Dinner at a basic restaurent will cost you around 8 soles ($2.75).

[skeptic]

Of course, it's much more fun in another country - especially if you are visiting it from the U.S. as a tourist. Go try to make yourself a decent living in Peru, Phillipines, or Russia. See how beautiful your life will be after a year or so. Especially once you're used to American standards. This whole euphoria will disappear sooner than you realize it. And see how these open, natural, and easy-going girls who live in those countries will react on you once you have become a local guy rather than a foreign visitor. You have to be naive to believe that your vacation in a foreign country will continue to be a vacation after you move there for real. Plenty of foreigners who come to America feel the same way. I once spoke from a guy who had just arrived from my native city of Minsk, Belarus, for a summer Work&Travel program. As he observed the way people behave on the subway on our way from JFK, he exclaimed that at that very moment he would already like to stay here permanently (to which I tried to explain to him that life here - or anywhere - is not always what we see on a facade). So, don't be naive. The grass is always greener on the other side. And vacations are always more fascinating than routine life. Do you think there is no routine in Peru? I bet there is. And I'm sure it's even worse than our routine in the U.S.

[Winston]

Of course, it's much more fun in another country - especially if you are visiting it from the U.S. as a tourist. Go try to make yourself a decent living in Peru, Phillipines, or Russia. See how beautiful your life will be after a year or so. Especially once you're used to American standards. This whole euphoria will disappear sooner than you realize it. And see how these open, natural, and easy-going girls who live in those countries will react on you once you have become a local guy rather than a foreign visitor. You have to be naive to believe that your vacation in a foreign country will continue to be a vacation after you move there for real. Plenty of foreigners who come to America feel the same way. I once spoke from a guy who had just arrived from my native city of Minsk, Belarus, for a summer Work&Travel program. As he observed the way people behave on the subway on our way from JFK, he exclaimed that at that very moment he would already like to stay here permanently (to which I tried to explain to him that life here - or anywhere - is not always what we see on a facade). So, don't be naive. The grass is always greener on the other side. And vacations are always more fascinating than routine life. Do you think there is no routine in Peru? I bet there is. And I'm sure it's even worse than our routine in the U.S.

Dude, you didn't read his post. He has LIVED IN PERU FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE! So he knows what it's like to live there long term already.

You are so caught up in your pessimism that you didn't even see that!

Dude, even if you're right, that doesn't mean that ALL countries are the same once you get used to them. Hell no!

Go abroad and stop trying to make others come down to your cynical level.

FYI, most expats I know do not say they miss America and want to go back.

Furthermore, your main points have already been debunked in this thread about you. Please read it and address them there.
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=8208

[skeptic]

Winston, it's not pessimism, it's optimism - optimism about staying in America. It's most of the forum that is based on pessimism. Most of your posts are not about how good other countries are, but rather about how terrible America is.
As for this guy's two-year stay in Peru, he didn't write what he was doing there. Maybe he was just a teenager or a college student back then. That means, his two years were not as routine and boring as a regular working man's life. You never know what conclusion he would come to after these two years multipliede by five.
I don't see anything "debunked" in that thread. I guess, the axiom that "you don't need explanation; just take it at face value" should prove the most debunking. But it doesn't.
Besides, I never say it's bad elsewhere. All I say is that moving abroad (or going there for dating only) is not a remedy for the social problems many of you have in America. There is no paradice on Earth for people who are challenged in one way or another, "dating-challenged" in this case.

[Jackal]

Hi Travel Dude,

I hope you find a way to get back to Peru. Do you have a plan for getting back there? Could you teach English there or work in your current field there?

Buena suerte!
***************

Now I'll reply to Skeptic:

First of all, have you ever traveled overseas? If so, where and for how long? If not, then your arguments really don't hold much weight because they're only based on your fantasies and not on your experience. But I'll reply anyway because there are a few points I'd like to talk about.

"You can run away from America, but you CAN'T run away from yourself." This is very true, but there are other things which need to be considered.

The first one is that the same person can act very differently in different environments. If you were in Laos, would feel exactly the same as you do now? Would you be as happy as you are now? Would you act the same? It seems to me that you're quite happy with American culture, so I would venture a guess that you would act differently there and not be as happy there. Could you ever fully adapt to Laotian culture? Could you find a job you enjoyed there? Again, if you're like most Americans, probably not.

In America, there is the constant myth that "You can do anything you want if you work hard enough." But this is not true. It is true that everyone can improve at least a bit if they work at it and people can change at least a bit if they work at it, but the degree to which success is possible depends on many other things (resources, abilities, environment, etc.).

My point is that most of us on this website never felt entirely comfortable with American culture and it's far easier for us to be relaxed, friendly, and motivated in foreign countries than it is in the US. People whose personalities naturally fit in in America (and especially those who have never traveled!) will not be able to understand our views on this website.

The "self" is not a fixed, static thing. It changes according to the environment. If you're a party animal in Slovakia, you won't necessarily be that way in Nigeria. Similarly, if someone is totally pissed off all the time in the US, they won't necessarily be that way in another country which has a very different culture. Sure, they'll carry some of their problems with them, but these can be more easily worked on in (what is for them) a less hostile environment.

Of course, it's much more fun in another country - especially if you are visiting it from the U.S. as a tourist. Go try to make yourself a decent living in Peru, Phillipines, or Russia. See how beautiful your life will be after a year or so. Especially once you're used to American standards. This whole euphoria will disappear sooner than you realize it.

Oh really? I've been living--and working--in Hungary for two years and I plan to stay here for much longer--perhaps even permanently. Sure, I got slightly bored with my job after about a year and a half, but my solution was simply to move to a different city to keep things interesting. "American standards"? What's that? Working lots of forced overtime with no vacations? Paying ridiculous prices for medicines? Getting stuck in traffic everyday during long commutes because (except for in a few cities) the public transportation sucks? Having your tax dollars used to fund useless wars abroad?

Your mistake is that it takes far less money to make "a decent living" in countries where the cost of living is much cheaper. Just because a certain amount of money wouldn't be nearly enough to live off in the US (especially in NYC), it doesn't mean that it isn't more than adequate to live off in a less expensive country.

Again Americans' stereotypes that anyplace outside of America is "uncivilized" are totally baseless and are based on the negative propaganda about foreign countries in American media. Not everyplace outside the US is like Iraq. In Hungary, there is good medical care which is very cheap and often free. I have highspeed internet and telephone service for less than $20 a month. I can buy delicous meals for only a few dollars. My apartment is as nice as an American apartment plus it has high ceilings. Basically, I can get everything here which I had back in America for a far lower cost and in a much more interesting location with less fat women. Furthermore, most people here appreciate foreign languages and cultures and aren't as ignorant as most Americans about those things.

Do you think there is no routine in Peru? I bet there is. And I'm sure it's even worse than our routine in the U.S.

If you've never been to Peru, you're just guessing based on your own mental stereotype of Peru.

When faced with the fact that life can be much better in some countries which are outside the US, an American usually goes through two phases:
1) Vehement denial - The American will ridicule and insult anyone who dares to think that the US is not the best at everything, despite any amount of evidence this American sees of this.

2) Trying to impose equality - The American grudgingly admits some of the problems the US has, but quickly fires back that all other countries "must" have the same problems and perhaps worse problems, despite any evidence to the contrary. It can be shattering for an American to realize that America is not the best country in the world, since their whole world view depends on that assumption. It's like a person in the Middle Ages being told that the Earth is not the center of the universe.

Some Americans may wake up and realize the potential of going overseas, but due to past conditioning, most will not. Most Americans have no interest in foreign cultures and are incapable of living in foreign countries successfully because of their ignorance and lack of foreign language skills.

[Linc4Love]

Winston, it's not pessimism, it's optimism - optimism about staying in America. It's most of the forum that is based on pessimism. Most of your posts are not about how good other countries are, but rather about how terrible America is.
As for this guy's two-year stay in Peru, he didn't write what he was doing there. Maybe he was just a teenager or a college student back then. That means, his two years were not as routine and boring as a regular working man's life. You never know what conclusion he would come to after these two years multipliede by five.
I don't see anything "debunked" in that thread. I guess, the axiom that "you don't need explanation; just take it at face value" should prove the most debunking. But it doesn't.
Besides, I never say it's bad elsewhere. All I say is that moving abroad (or going there for dating only) is not a remedy for the social problems many of you have in America. There is no paradice on Earth for people who are challenged in one way or another, "dating-challenged" in this case.

Are you f***ing kidding me? I would presume then you have no problems meeting and dating women here in the good old US of A compared to abroad, or you're married to some sexy American gal who bakes pies for you every morning and leaves little notes in your car. if not, then seriously, SHUT... THE... f**k... UP. You clearly do not know what the crap you're talking about.

[skeptic]

First of all, have you ever traveled overseas? If so, where and for how long? If not, then your arguments really don't hold much weight because they're only based on your fantasies and not on your experience.

Of course, I have traveled. Moreover, I grew up abroad. And, as a child and teenager growing up there, I can say that I faced a lot of troubles from my peers (i.e. bullying) duirng those years. In fact, here in America there wasn't so much bullying. What I have to admit I have no experience with is dating in my native country. But I did visit it a few years ago, and I didn't find the society there any warmer than the Russian-speaking community here in the U.S. By individuals - maybe. That's because I didn't meet my former bullies; I only met people I wanted to. But generally, I still feel more comfortable and secure walking down the streets here than I felt there.

The first one is that the same person can act very differently in different environments.

Absolutely agree. Moreover, that's actually my counter-argument.

If you were in Laos, would feel exactly the same as you do now? Would you be as happy as you are now? Would you act the same? It seems to me that you're quite happy with American culture, so I would venture a guess that you would act differently there and not be as happy there. Could you ever fully adapt to Laotian culture? Could you find a job you enjoyed there? Again, if you're like most Americans, probably not.

I'm not like most Americans, because I'm not American by birth. I can't say I'm happy with American culture because it's not really my culture. If I happen to travel to Laos or to any other country (including my native Belarus or nearby Russia), I'll be happy about my vacation. And, because I would take their women seriously enough, I would not be as nervous among them as I am nervous around girls that do interest me. But then, is it really a good reason for global dating? I don't think so. Because, as soon as I start viewing their girls as potential dating (and, subsequently, marriage) partners, I would become as much of a nervous wreck as I am here in New York.

In America, there is the constant myth that "You can do anything you want if you work hard enough." But this is not true. It is true that everyone can improve at least a bit if they work at it and people can change at least a bit if they work at it, but the degree to which success is possible depends on many other things (resources, abilities, environment, etc.).

Again, I agree with you on this. As a religious man, I realize how wrong it is to believe exclusively in your own power. No matter how hard you try, G-d is in charge. Having said that, however, I also believe that we should try as hard as we can to succeed, rather than give up.

My point is that most of us on this website never felt entirely comfortable with American culture and it's far easier for us to be relaxed, friendly, and motivated in foreign countries than it is in the US. People whose personalities naturally fit in in America (and especially those who have never traveled!) will not be able to understand our views on this website.

You're making very good points. However, are you sure that all guys who post here have ever been abroad? Maybe some of them are simply desperate about their dating situation here, so they somehow hope to have a better luck out there. Ok, maybe there are few people who have sincere belief in a corruption of American society. But, from what I see on this board, many people (including Winston himself) are bashing America so excessively that it actually makes them sound less credible than they would otherwise.

And, again, I'm not American. At this point, I have been living here only a half of my current age: I'll celebrate my 16th U.S. anniversary in November, and my 32nd birthday in December). So, I know it's not a paradise in Belarus (or anywhere else within Russian-speaking ex-Soviet lands). Winston can claim anything he wants, but the main thing that I expected in America - religious freedom - I've got it.

The "self" is not a fixed, static thing. It changes according to the environment. If you're a party animal in Slovakia, you won't necessarily be that way in Nigeria. Similarly, if someone is totally pissed off all the time in the US, they won't necessarily be that way in another country which has a very different culture. Sure, they'll carry some of their problems with them, but these can be more easily worked on in (what is for them) a less hostile environment.

Perhaps it's true. But, in order to come to a reasonable conclusion that some other culture suites you better, you have to know that culture. If someone reasonably colcludes that he'll be better of in Russia (China, Mexico - whatever) than in America - I respect his decision. But if his main reasoning is that American society is corrupt - I can only suspect that he has a tough luck here.

Oh really? I've been living--and working--in Hungary for two years and I plan to stay here for much longer--perhaps even permanently.

If that's the case, I admit that your decision to move to Hungary is pretty much reasonable. I'm not bashing other countries, or oppose global dating just out of principle. Not at all. All I'm saying is that the fact that someone fails in America does not mean America is all bad for everyone.

"American standards"? What's that? Working lots of forced overtime with no vacations? Paying ridiculous prices for medicines? Getting stuck in traffic everyday during long commutes because (except for in a few cities) the public transportation sucks? Having your tax dollars used to fund useless wars abroad?

I admit these weaknesses of the United States. Unfortunately, this is true. But, personally, I'm not so much affected by these drawbacks: I live in New York (where public transportation is reliable) and work for a government agency, which gives me a nice health insurance and a pretty good number of vacation days (which may not be very big by European standads, but is a luxury by American ones). But, yes, America is not all-perfect. And if you have chosen a nice country for yourself to move to, and have a means to make a living there, I respect that. But when someone is writing: "I cannot wait to go abroad because America sucks" - that's stupid and naive.

Your mistake is that it takes far less money to make "a decent living" in countries where the cost of living is much cheaper. Just because a certain amount of money wouldn't be nearly enough to live off in the US (especially in NYC), it doesn't mean that it isn't more than adequate to live off in a less expensive country.

That's possible. But, before anything, you've got to make sure you are employed and enjoy your job, wherever you are. Please, don't tell me that having a job is not as important abroad as it is here. Everyone's got to make a living. I don't believe that those who live on welfare in a European country deserve much respect from those who are working and paying taxes. If you are sure you'll find a nice job abroad - good for you.

Again Americans' stereotypes that anyplace outside of America is "uncivilized" are totally baseless and are based on the negative propaganda about foreign countries in American media.

Don't American take vacations and travel around the world? Of so, they have first-hand experience with other countries and no media would change their mind.

It can be shattering for an American to realize that America is not the best country in the world, since their whole world view depends on that assumption.

So, what is the best country in the world? Peru? Or, perhaps, Russia or China? I don't think any country can claim being the best in the world.

Actually, the Soviet government was teaching me that the USSR is the best country in the world. But by the late 1980's, in spite of this ideology, everyone realized that it's certainly better abroad, especially in America. I guess, same thing happens in America now. But I've learned the lesson before, so I'm not buying on either side. No, I don't believe America is all best. But I do believe that it still has those qualities that attract people from all over the world.

Some Americans may wake up and realize the potential of going overseas, but due to past conditioning, most will not.

If it was all-bad here, most Americans would have already "waken up". But, apparently, it's not as bad here as to make them "wake up". Apparently, most Americans are happy here and don't care about any advantages some other country has to offer. Somehow, there are too many people in Russia, China, or Mexico who would like to flee those countries. And, for some reason, it's not the case in the U.S.

Are you f***ing kidding me? I would presume then you have no problems meeting and dating women here in the good old US of A compared to abroad, or you're married to some sexy American gal who bakes pies for you every morning and leaves little notes in your car. if not, then seriously, SHUT... THE... f**k... UP. You clearly do not know what the crap you're talking about

I'm not yet married to a "sexy american gal", but I see too many people around who are. And it's not on TV, it's in real-life. If I was completely surrounded by desperate single men, I might have believed all this shit that I read on this board. But there is too much evidence to suggest that the society is not at fault. American law, by the way, grants me the freedom of speech, in spite of Winston claiming otherwise. So, I WON'T shut...the...f**k...up, and you've got to live with it.

[Montanaland]

Skeptic,


With your life experience of growing up in the USSR...have't you noticed yet that this great country of America is the next USSR??


http://seekingalpha.com/article/134820- ... atrick.net


The late Mel Raiman.. founder of my trading platform (PTS) read this during his radio broadcast and always had nothing good to say about America's near future. He was having a Atlanta bank always keep his $$$ in the stongest currency.


Isn't the "live high on the hog" and spending party over?


...and in regards to democracy, unfortunately it doesn't work. I'm not here to be doom and gloom, however we all need to personally accept this and as a nation we will realize one day soon that Asia is the new world order and here to collect on our Debt.


Finally, in regards to global dating I can speak for myself as well as many other guys on this board when I tell you that a lot of us have never experienced an old world relationship where the woman lets the man take a traditional lead role of any kind.

[Linc4Love]

Are you f***ing kidding me? I would presume then you have no problems meeting and dating women here in the good old US of A compared to abroad, or you're married to some sexy American gal who bakes pies for you every morning and leaves little notes in your car. if not, then seriously, SHUT... THE... f**k... UP. You clearly do not know what the crap you're talking about

I'm not yet married to a "sexy american gal", but I see too many people around who are. And it's not on TV, it's in real-life. If I was completely surrounded by desperate single men, I might have believed all this shit that I read on this board. But there is too much evidence to suggest that the society is not at fault. American law, by the way, grants me the freedom of speech, in spite of Winston claiming otherwise. So, I WON'T shut...the...f**k...up, and you've got to live with it.

And of those married, how many are HAPPILY married? And how many are married to a wife that doesn't look like a genetic experiment gone wrong? Because basing your schmuckheaded opinions on anecdotal evidence (gee all the three guys I know personally are married, it can't be all bad for the 8 million men who are still single!) is retard territory. Get a f***ing clue.

In fact I rather suspect you are really some bicurious Valley chick who just likes to get her rocks off by trolling this forum.

[skeptic]

With your life experience of growing up in the USSR...have't you noticed yet that this great country of America is the next USSR??

The late Mel Raiman.. founder of my trading platform (PTS) read this during his radio broadcast and always had nothing good to say about America's near future. He was having a Atlanta bank always keep his $$$ in the stongest currency.

Only G-d knows the future. The USSR was unique in its own right; so is the USA (and, for that matter, any other large empire). The sequence of events that lead to its collapse, including the economic crisis that was happening during the process of its disappearance, is totally different from what's going on with the United States and the rest of the world today. There are a lot of variables at play - ideological, political, economical. Don't forget that the USSR broke into fifteen republics, each representing a specific ethnic group. The largest of them - RSFSR (currently known as Russian Federation) - still contains numerous national entities within its territory. I believe that, along with everything else, national factor played one of the major roles in USSR's demise, and, following this logic, today's Russia is at risk of losing most of its territories for the same reason. The USA, on the other hand, does not consist of national entities. None of the states represents a national or ethnic group. In theory, any state (or group of them) can brake away and become an independent country. But why in the world would they do it? While today's economy sucks, I doubt that any of the states (most of which are facing their own budget deficits) would want to fall off the U.S., especially since there is no significant ethnic/religious basis for it. Besides, America has already survived the Great Depression (compared to which today's crisis is still a far cry - I just hope it doesn't get worse); moreover, it survived Mel Raiman himself. And the government structure of the U.S. hasn't changed much for more than two centureis. So, while the standard of living may or may not fully return to the pre-recession level, I don't think the integrity of the country is much at risk (although history sometimes brings surprises).

And, by the way, Russia (which had inherited most of the Soviet Union's debts) has somehow recovered. Although it's now in economic crisis, too.

Isn't the "live high on the hog" and spending party over?

I guess it is. But it started not so long ago. There was nothing like this a few decades ago. I just hope that the society will learn its lessons from the recession and return to its old values.

...and in regards to democracy, unfortunately it doesn't work. I'm not here to be doom and gloom, however we all need to personally accept this and as a nation we will realize one day soon that Asia is the new world order and here to collect on our Debt.

I just don't believe America is not repaying its debts. And, as long as it does, Asia is only too happy to have us having those debts. As for the new world order, do you really think Chinese commies can make it? They need America as their major consumer, otherwise they would go broke as fast as they rose.

And of those married, how many are HAPPILY married? And how many are married to a wife that doesn't look like a genetic experiment gone wrong? Because basing your schmuckheaded opinions on anecdotal evidence (gee all the three guys I know personally are married, it can't be all bad for the 8 million men who are still single!) is retard territory. Get a f***ing clue.

I can only tell what I see. They have their privacy, and I can only hope that they are fine and happy behind closed doors. But they do seem happy on public. And, given today's high divorce rate, the fact that these people are happy for already five, seven, or even ten years, is a good evidence that the overall situation is not that terrible.

In fact I rather suspect you are really some bicurious Valley chick who just likes to get her rocks off by trolling this forum.

That's a baseless suspicion. I'm not a chick; I'm a guy who believes in common sense. I realize that the American society is not perfect; I'm just not willing to prematurely blame my own difficulties (which I do have) on the society.

[Montanaland]

I don't think the integrity of the country is much at risk (although history sometimes brings surprises)

Skeptic,

I'm simply referring to the collapse of the fomer USSR...not its reason or its ideological, political, economical makeup of that time.


We need to people like you who hold on to the belief that America and its intergrity can't possibly fail. When in actuallity the debts are to great to be paid back as the middle class quietly erodes.

Do you really think Chinese commies can make it?

Yes, I do!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66T1HT20100730


Again, as much as I enjoyed democracy....I believe it Doesn't work in the end! Some hybrid form of gov. such as capitalism/socialism or democracy/socialism... or??


I don't know what to tell you Skeptic? Lets just agree>>not to agree and you can keep on hoping and praying that the US stays afloat another 25yrs so you can keep your US govt job in New York City.

I on the other hand am going to use this countries great educational system again and aquire a MA in Tesol so I can be marketable on a global scale.