PUA Summit Scam Exposed

MrPeabody · Post by **MrPeabody** » November 18th, 2011, 4:09 pm

fox wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:Now that's funny. When Ross Jeffries was getting started, he had a major verbal war on the Internet with a guy called "Don Steele". Steele claims that he mentored Jeffries who then turned against him. Jeffries ridiculed Steele claiming that Jeffries was introducing a radical new technology and that Don Steele was OLD and OUTDATED. They actually ended up in court and came up with an agreement to not talk about each other anymore. Karma is a bitch.
MrPeabody,

you have mentioned somewhere that you tried 'speed seduction' but then you found meditation to be more helpful- or something like that??

if it was you could you tell me more about it, if it wasn't you then sorry....

That was me. Meditation is a mind technique which is over 2000 years old and is way more advanced than NLP (on which speed seduction was based) and which many people can't get to work. With NLP, you manipulate the pictures and thoughts in your mind to control your state of mind, whereas meditation is natural, you do nothing, and naturally detach from the world and its aggravations. With NLP, you manipulate, with meditation, you practice being in a state of presence. With NLP you struggle for results; with meditation you detach yourself and your emotions from results (which actually makes them more likely to occur). Speed seduction is highly verbal because its creator was a verbal person and hence it was a good fit for him. The truth is that most of what you communicate is non verbal. If you have a stable mind which transmits into your body language as strong and tranquil, you will be able to be yourself and say normal things, and a woman will be attracted. Many guys spin their wheels because they have a weak presence and say all these silly things taught to them by their gurus, which makes them look even weaker. They don't realize that their body language is communicating a different message than their words. I also did some search on the Internet and found a blurb that Jeffries actually recently took a meditation course, from the very same meditation teacher I went to over a decade ago, in order to learn techniques for working with emotions.

fox · Post by **fox** » November 18th, 2011, 10:24 pm

MrPeabody wrote:That was me. Meditation is a mind technique which is over 2000 years old and is way more advanced than NLP (on which speed seduction was based) and which many people can't get to work. With NLP, you manipulate the pictures and thoughts in your mind to control your state of mind, whereas meditation is natural, you do nothing, and naturally detach from the world and its aggravations. With NLP, you manipulate, with meditation, you practice being in a state of presence. With NLP you struggle for results; with meditation you detach yourself and your emotions from results (which actually makes them more likely to occur). Speed seduction is highly verbal because its creator was a verbal person and hence it was a good fit for him. The truth is that most of what you communicate is non verbal. If you have a stable mind which transmits into your body language as strong and tranquil, you will be able to be yourself and say normal things, and a woman will be attracted. Many guys spin their wheels because they have a weak presence and say all these silly things taught to them by their gurus, which makes them look even weaker. They don't realize that their body language is communicating a different message than their words. I also did some search on the Internet and found a blurb that Jeffries actually recently took a meditation course, from the very same meditation teacher I went to over a decade ago, in order to learn techniques for working with emotions.

yes Ross learned meditation from Shinzen Young and he even made up a few Inner Game technicks based on what he learned from Shinzen Young (after adding a few NLP elements into them), but he does give Shinzen credit for that and admits that he didn't invent the technicks (only added a few NLP elements into them).

so what kind of meditation do you do?
Vipassana, Zen, Tibetian?

did you ever try using NLP technicks on women?

MrPeabody · Post by **MrPeabody** » November 19th, 2011, 9:46 am

fox wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:That was me. Meditation is a mind technique which is over 2000 years old and is way more advanced than NLP (on which speed seduction was based) and which many people can't get to work. With NLP, you manipulate the pictures and thoughts in your mind to control your state of mind, whereas meditation is natural, you do nothing, and naturally detach from the world and its aggravations. With NLP, you manipulate, with meditation, you practice being in a state of presence. With NLP you struggle for results; with meditation you detach yourself and your emotions from results (which actually makes them more likely to occur). Speed seduction is highly verbal because its creator was a verbal person and hence it was a good fit for him. The truth is that most of what you communicate is non verbal. If you have a stable mind which transmits into your body language as strong and tranquil, you will be able to be yourself and say normal things, and a woman will be attracted. Many guys spin their wheels because they have a weak presence and say all these silly things taught to them by their gurus, which makes them look even weaker. They don't realize that their body language is communicating a different message than their words. I also did some search on the Internet and found a blurb that Jeffries actually recently took a meditation course, from the very same meditation teacher I went to over a decade ago, in order to learn techniques for working with emotions.
yes Ross learned meditation from Shinzen Young and he even made up a few Inner Game technicks based on what he learned from Shinzen Young (after adding a few NLP elements into them), but he does give Shinzen credit for that and admits that he didn't invent the technicks (only added a few NLP elements into them).

so what kind of meditation do you do?
Vipassana, Zen, Tibetian?

did you ever try using NLP technicks on women?

I practice Vipassana. Shinzen is a Vipassana teacher, even though I believe that he was actually ordained as a monk in a Vajrayana Japanese sect. I also do the 10 day retreats with Goenka's Vipassana technique. I don't use NLP. Meditation is such a different philosophy, I wouldn't attribute anything created by Jeffries to Shinzen.

fox · Post by **fox** » November 19th, 2011, 3:17 pm

MrPeabody wrote:Shinzen is a Vipassana teacher, even though I believe that he was actually ordained as a monk in a Vajrayana Japanese sect.

Yes he was a monk at a Vajrayana Japanese sect. but then he moved to Vipassana and said that it is the best way....

Banano · Post by **Banano** » November 19th, 2011, 7:31 pm

That was me. Meditation is a mind technique which is over 2000 years old and is way more advanced than NLP (on which speed seduction was based) and which many people can't get to work. With NLP, you manipulate the pictures and thoughts in your mind to control your state of mind, whereas meditation is natural, you do nothing, and naturally detach from the world and its aggravations. With NLP, you manipulate, with meditation, you practice being in a state of presence. With NLP you struggle for results; with meditation you detach yourself and your emotions from results (which actually makes them more likely to occur). Speed seduction is highly verbal because its creator was a verbal person and hence it was a good fit for him. The truth is that most of what you communicate is non verbal. If you have a stable mind which transmits into your body language as strong and tranquil, you will be able to be yourself and say normal things, and a woman will be attracted. Many guys spin their wheels because they have a weak presence and say all these silly things taught to them by their gurus, which makes them look even weaker. They don't realize that their body language is communicating a different message than their words. I also did some search on the Internet and found a blurb that Jeffries actually recently took a meditation course, from the very same meditation teacher I went to over a decade ago, in order to learn techniques for working with emotions.[/quote]

Mr Peabody

Does meditation help you seduce/crack AW women even if you are bellow average and she is say average or above average or it just assist you with women in your own league?

Do you have any links or material for startes on a subject ,pls post them

Rock · Post by **Rock** » November 19th, 2011, 7:59 pm

IntoTheWild wrote:I don't go to boot camps at all, and there isn't really any particular 'guru' who I follow. I really don't buy into NLP, that's a rather niche area, Ross Jeffries is someone who I haven't paid much attention to as his 'thing' is NLP, and it's just not the type of thing for me. Seems like a lot of 'voodoo' to me, maybe I'm wrong but thats my opinion. I'm just not into things like hypnosis, etc.

There is a forum online that started out as a usenet group. Ross Jeffries, Mystery, Style, all the early 2000's guys used to post on there but don't anymore, but the forum eventually evolved into a huge resource, fastseduction, now called masf/fastseduction web site.

That site has been a GOLD MINE over the years, lots of experienced guys post there, sharing honest, free advice, however has been under new ownership and has been going downhill since. No moderation, posts being lost, etc. So a bunch of people are jumping ship, and created a new site called fasterseduction. It's small but growing. MASF was great but is now dead practically. SOMEONE wanted to kill it obviously, so bought it out and don't maintain the site properly.

Some of my favorite guys do in fact have businesses based on giving seduction advice, but you aren't forced to buy their stuff. A lot were long time forum members before they decided to go commercial, and have given TONS of free advice, just having discussion, sharing experience, etc. So what if they decided to try eventually to see if they could make extra money or even a living off of it.

Some of the ones who I really pay attention to are Franco, Joseph Went South, and Blackdragon. All who frequent the fasterseduction.com forum now. There are more but I think those are my faves so far, they really got shit down, clearly and concisely.

Franco, who write Franco's manual of seduction, is amazingly good. His book totally changed my views on women. He has a little web site where he offers some e-books and dating advice, but he really isn't hugely commercial like Ross Jeffries or whatever, he has given lots of free advice to guys.

Blackdragon is also a fave of mine, he is simple, no nonsense, incredibly logical and clear with his views, and really is a gold mine for cutting through the bullshit society feeds people. His views against monogamy make so much sense, you can tell he has really thought it through and has the experience to back it up.

That's about it.... there's more but really it comes down to a guy wanting to look for it.

Hey, I just went to Franco's site but its contaminated by malware and shuts down automatically. Do you know any way to access it safely? Also, is his manual available in ebook form? I would like to get it if it is.

MrPeabody · Post by **MrPeabody** » November 19th, 2011, 10:12 pm

Banano wrote:
Mr Peabody

Does meditation help you seduce/crack AW women even if you are bellow average and she is say average or above average or it just assist you with women in your own league?

Do you have any links or material for startes on a subject ,pls post them

There is no course teaching meditation to seduce women. Meditation is a totally different paradigm. It develops your concentration which is the general meta-algorithm that affects every area of your life. As a byproduct, it will also affect how you relate to women and improve this area of your life. Meditation is more of a getting rid of rather than an adding of skills (like NLP). One thing it will do is reduce your reactivity so that you are less disturbed by things that happen in the external world. This would include being able to approach a woman and not be disturbed if she is rude to you. This is important, because it gives you control over your life, and more control over your state of mind. You aren't knocked off balance. Meditation also gets you out of your head and that along with the greater powers of concentration allows you to be more sensitive and pick up more information on what is going on at the present moment. This is, of course, very useful in relating to women. You can also use meditation to reduce your lust, which will provide better clarity and stability to your mind. When I talk to women now, I don't have anything prepared and I don't have any results in mind. I just clear my mind and tune into what is happening in the present and use that as material. If you observe all the great meditation masters, they never prepare material in advance. The Dalai Lama and Eckhart Tolle give seminars and speeches in front of large audiences based on what they are feeling at the moment. As for American women, I haven't been with one in over ten years. However, my last American girlfriend was a contestant in the Miss USA pageant when she was younger (I knew her when she was about 30). Also, lastly, meditation will make you happier, and happy people have an easier time attracting people.

Here are some of my favorite sources, if you want to learn more about meditation.

Shinzen Young The science of meditation in action

http://www.shinzen.org/

Shinzen Young - meditation courses taught over skype (inexpensive)

Also, Shinzen Young has a Youtube channel you can subsribe to.

http://www.shinzen.org/MeditationTraining/

Ajahn Brahm - a Theravada Buddhist monk from Australia. He is a very entertaining and popular speaker.

He also has a youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj2H1sDw ... plpp_video

Thanissaro Bhikkhu

He has alot of free talks on the Internet. I really like this guy because he emphasizes how to use breath meditation to deal with the difficulties of life.

http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_index.html

WiseBrain.org

This site goes into the scientific investigation of meditation. There are articles from a scientific perspective how to improve your life with meditation.

http://www.wisebrain.org/

Vipassana Meditation

They conduct free meditation retreats all over the world. Look at the Worldwide Course schedule for your location.

http://www.dhamma.org/

fox · Post by **fox** » November 20th, 2011, 1:11 am

Thanks IntoTheWild, cheers

Banano · Post by **Banano** » November 22nd, 2011, 6:35 am

Anyone got links to free "Franco's manual of seduction" ebook or audio book?

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » November 22nd, 2011, 7:07 am

Grunt wrote:A "boot camp" for "pick up artists"? ROFL LOL HAHAHAH!

So you pay some douchebag to teach you how to get a raging case of herpes? If you are so lame and clueless about the nuances of human nature, you got bigger problems that some feather merchant can fix.

Just plain hilarious.

What's even more hilarious is that some pickup artists claim any guy can meet hot women and get laid just by using the techniques they teach men at these "bootcamps."

So, if even if you look like this guy below, you can get hot women, just by signing up for a "bootcamp."

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » November 22nd, 2011, 7:38 pm

By yourself, no matter what. Do not change at the whim of strangers. Like the old Dr. Seuss saying, be yourself, because the the people that matter wont mind, and the people that mind don't matter.

The only females that are impressed with superficiality are skanks you do not need in your life. A quality woman will recognize and appreciate your "inner strength" and find her way to you.

Living life by your own code is far more valuable than getting laid. Even when I was single, I knew that. And I still know it today. I will be myself, no matter what. If you don't believe it, just ask my wife.

Now, that all being said, being yourself means being someone that is worth something. I am not a drunk. I am not abusive. I try to help those that I can. I pay attention to what is going on around me.

So boiling it all down, try to be someone worth being.

fox · Post by **fox** » November 23rd, 2011, 2:43 am

IntoTheWild wrote:The problem is: Being a PUA is not necessarily about changing who you are. That is the same argument I keep hearing "But I just want to be myself! I don't want to change who I am!" That demonstrates a severe lack on insight into what it is all about, it is a very shallow view.

Nobody said you have to change who you are! Well, not anyone wise anyway. PUA's who say you have to completely change yourself are full of shit.

What is valuable is understanding the game females play. When you understand, when you are 'aware' fully and see beyond their smokescreen. Your behavior will hopefully change accordingly. That is the result of knowledge, not changing who you are.

If I learned how animals behaved, their habits, etc and that made me a better hunter, that knowledge gained does not 'change who I am'. Really, it's like a hunter saying 'I don't want to know how the deer migrate and where they feed' THATS SUPERFICIAL! I could never do that! I just want to 'wing' it and hope everything works out!

NOT LOGICAL!

I guess most guys are completely ILLOGICAL about this shit. Just like women are.

With mindsets like that being so common, I don't need to be afraid of this stuff becoming common knowledge and having tons of competition, if that is how most guys think! I'm beginning to really believe guys are that dense and hopeless, I pity my gender

Yea I can dig this. Some PUA teachers tell you that you have to turn into a jerk or a badboy to get women. But there are some teachers in the industry who teach you skills and don't tell you to become someone else.

That being said, another problems is that most guys are not being themselves around women. They have been programmed to think that when they see a woman they have to put on a fake persona. Teachers like Hypnotica, Steve P. and David X for example: tell you not to be like them- be yourself but your real self around women.

Banano · Post by **Banano** » November 23rd, 2011, 6:09 am

The thing is that being yourself clearly does not work, thats why we have PUA industry
Being yourself means you see girl, you smile at her, you start talking/flirting with her and gues what ??she thinks you are weirdo/sleazbag or creep UNLESS you are Brad Pitt look alike with Lambo then you ll pass no matter what you say or do...
PUA downplays importance of looks so they can make $$$ from ugly and average,insecure undersexed guys and thatis why i refuse to pay for any of their books, its not matter of $, I just dont want to be another sheep. If I happen to read PUA book and it helps me Ill send cheque to the author, twice the amount he charges for book.Thats fair. How come PUA gurus are always coming up with some new stuff all the time, if original book was so amazing why there is need for upgrades??? Cld it be bc they want more money by any chance???

fox · Post by **fox** » November 23rd, 2011, 3:16 pm

Banano wrote:The thing is that being yourself clearly does not work, thats why we have PUA industry
Being yourself means you see girl, you smile at her, you start talking/flirting with her and gues what ??she thinks you are weirdo/sleazbag or creep UNLESS you are Brad Pitt look alike with Lambo then you ll pass no matter what you say or do...
PUA downplays importance of looks so they can make $$$ from ugly and average,insecure undersexed guys and thatis why i refuse to pay for any of their books, its not matter of $, I just dont want to be another sheep. If I happen to read PUA book and it helps me Ill send cheque to the author, twice the amount he charges for book.Thats fair. How come PUA gurus are always coming up with some new stuff all the time, if original book was so amazing why there is need for upgrades??? Cld it be bc they want more money by any chance???

Looks are importent but it's not the only thing. I have seen good looking guys fail with women AND some good looking guys who have girlfriends that are below avrage looking. Yes Looks can be a bonus but it's not the only thing that matters....

How come PUA gurus are always coming up with some new stuff all the time, if original book was so amazing why there is need for upgrades??? Cld it be bc they want more money by any chance???

each PUA has his own way of doing things, there is not just one system that can work for everyone (since we are all different). Some PUAs are frauds like Carlos Xuma & Lance Mason:

these guys have more subproducts then a spice rack at the super market. They just eat up guys bank accounts for dinner.

I keep waiting for a program on farting out pheromones to attract women. they talks about pretty much every other conceivable eventuality.

But of course not all PUAs are like them....

fox · Post by **fox** » November 23rd, 2011, 4:29 pm

I can't edit my post but i wanted to add: What PUAs don't tell you is that 'environmental factors' are 85-90% of 'game'.

'environmental factors': Where you live- what is the ratio between women and men, the ratio between quality men and quality women, how many attractive women are in your area vs. how many attractive men and etc...

If you live in let's say: Vegas, you are competing with rich dudes over attractive girls. But if you live in a city near Mexico- it's a different story...

let's take Canada for example:

Ottawa is a small city. The girls are very average and because of that 8's act like they're the shit.

Montreal - big city. a lot of good looking French girls and they are much more open and sexual.

Calgary has the hottest girls in Canada; because there are a lot of 10's, the 8's see them and are low self-esteem'ish because of it and are a bit desperate because all the guys are looking at the 10's. So the 8's are going to be nice and friendly....

in my area code girls who are 6's act like Divas because the ratio here is in their favour.

sites like this one remind people about 'environmental factors' and it's a good thing. Of course if you are weak and let women control you - you will most likely fail even if you go abroad. But if you have a healthy self esteem and a lot to offer- and the women in your area code don't see it, it probably means that the ratio sucks (for you).

Then you should consider changing location.