Now, no one seems to care about ethnic backgrounds of people in Ukraine except for an occasional wacko here and there- just like in the US. People have other things to worry about here. Armenians will be viewed as equals by pretty much everybody. No one gives a sh*t anymore. People have put ethnic rivalries on the back burner and put money on the front one. In my birthplace- Lviv- the notoriously pro-Nazi , Russia and Jew/Israel hating part of the country no one cares about anything any more. Except business and money. An Israeli flag is flying over a 4 star hotel, Russian language is heard on the streets. I guess it is the same with Armenians here.
In what way is she not Slavic, though? Does she have an Armenian last name? Because oroginal people of Ukraine were not Slavic, either- they were Scythians- same as Iranians/Persians. She may be one of those.
Gypsies are having problems still, though. But if they have money, they do not.
http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu20 ... 1244376765
My Travel to Ukraine
Last edited by ladislav on June 7th, 2009, 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
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I am now in Yalta, Crimea:
Staying at this hotel for $53.60 a night.
http://www.ukraine.ro/Images/getpoza.as ... y=Original
This is the downtown:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_Town.JPG
Swallos' Nest
http://imagecache01a.allposters.com/ima ... osters.jpg
This is what a view from my hotel window is like:
http://www.blacksea-crimea.com/Photos/M ... arkBay.jpg
Sorry I do not know how to post images in here because everything is in Russian and I am not sure how to do that in Russian.
Staying at this hotel for $53.60 a night.
http://www.ukraine.ro/Images/getpoza.as ... y=Original
This is the downtown:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_Town.JPG
Swallos' Nest
http://imagecache01a.allposters.com/ima ... osters.jpg
This is what a view from my hotel window is like:
http://www.blacksea-crimea.com/Photos/M ... arkBay.jpg
Sorry I do not know how to post images in here because everything is in Russian and I am not sure how to do that in Russian.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Update- you can charter a yacht with a crew here. And a very good looking yacht, too. For some $40 an hour. Not bad. And so I did spend $40 and enjoyed feeling like a bloody Robert Maxwell for one hour.They took me around the harbor and even let me steer the yacht. Then they served me a watermelon on a plate.
The crew were delighted with my stories about the Philippines, and the beauty of the girls there. Two of them are already gearing up to save money and to go to the Philippines. I guess they are tired of the local blonds.
The love scene according to the boat captains and the crew- many consciencious, good girls in the area who are looking for guys to support them and help them out and act like a man in a relationship. They will be good girlfriends and wives and whatever. But it takes time to meet them.
They have also told me that some Americans who get to know local girls on the Web can run into ones who had had a very interesting past and not even know it. And are not these Americans concerned that they may be getting a girl with a very spotty personal history?
I told them that American men are not that picky.
As far as the pay-for-play scene here in Yalta- it is not that great. There are no strip clubs here, no houses of ill repute as such. This is a family resort. Kind of like Boracay in the RP. However, such resources are still available through call girls, and taxi drivers know where they are.
They ( the girls and whoever the intermediary is) charge $100-150 an hour. That is the going rate.Yes, US dollars. Which is a bit less than what US call girls charge but not by a big margin. So, who pays such exorbitant fees? The Turks do. The Turks invade Yalta on organized sex tours in the winter time. They are horny as hell, and they will pay anything to spend some time with a Slavic blond. Sex tours are not illegal here, obviously. Blond hookers come from all over Ukraine and Russia and bleed those Turks dry.
Anyway, I am off to check out the cable cars. Will be leaving Yalta later today, heading back for Odessa.
The crew were delighted with my stories about the Philippines, and the beauty of the girls there. Two of them are already gearing up to save money and to go to the Philippines. I guess they are tired of the local blonds.
The love scene according to the boat captains and the crew- many consciencious, good girls in the area who are looking for guys to support them and help them out and act like a man in a relationship. They will be good girlfriends and wives and whatever. But it takes time to meet them.
They have also told me that some Americans who get to know local girls on the Web can run into ones who had had a very interesting past and not even know it. And are not these Americans concerned that they may be getting a girl with a very spotty personal history?
I told them that American men are not that picky.
As far as the pay-for-play scene here in Yalta- it is not that great. There are no strip clubs here, no houses of ill repute as such. This is a family resort. Kind of like Boracay in the RP. However, such resources are still available through call girls, and taxi drivers know where they are.
They ( the girls and whoever the intermediary is) charge $100-150 an hour. That is the going rate.Yes, US dollars. Which is a bit less than what US call girls charge but not by a big margin. So, who pays such exorbitant fees? The Turks do. The Turks invade Yalta on organized sex tours in the winter time. They are horny as hell, and they will pay anything to spend some time with a Slavic blond. Sex tours are not illegal here, obviously. Blond hookers come from all over Ukraine and Russia and bleed those Turks dry.
Anyway, I am off to check out the cable cars. Will be leaving Yalta later today, heading back for Odessa.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Update: back in Odessa and just relaxing before I get ready to leave the country. If all goes well, I will be going to Manila later tonight.
To sum up my trip- Ukraine is a great place to visit and spend time in. I would not want to live here all the time though, especially, in the winter.
Some points: I am a foreigner here, just like any of you would be. This country has strange laws- no dual citizenship is allowed by the Constitution. I came on a 3 month visa on arrival and can only stay for 90 days over a 180 day period. Just because I was born here ( unlike in most countries in the Americas) they would never consider me one of them or give me any special privileges. I envy Winston who can go to TW and hang out there and well, even live there. I cannot do the same here. Because of the weird local citizenship laws.
I did not score with girls here because in the Odessa region there seem to be more guys than girls. I saw some stunners though. But I was shy to talk to them because I am 49 years old and age does matter here. This is not the Philippines.
Girls that look like Maureen McCormick
http://www.ttinet.com/mccormick/images/p03.gif
- my ideal of beauty- are in big numbers ( and so are the guys that look like Patrick Swazy)
But they would pay me no mind. One fat girl from Kiev tried to pick me up and take me home but I did not find her particularly appealing to my taste.
Anyway:
a) The architecture is very impressive,grand and ornate. The nature is also grand and smells good. The steppes are fragrant, with all kinds of wild flowers, birds and insects. The air is very fresh and again smells of flowers. Everything is very green and pleasant.
b) The food is totally fresh- some large restaurants have their own farms to raise both crops and animals. Fish is fresh and is just recently from the sea. Menus in restaurants are like pages in a magazine or a large book. The choice of dishes is enormous. Everything has this rich, intense and 'aromatic' taste- yes, that is how I would describe it- the food exudes an aroma while you chew on it and it gets into your nostrils. This is the result of being grown on the richest black soil on earth- the country's main treasure.
c) The culture/way of life is now very dynamic and sophisticated. People like to dress well, dres their kids like barbie dolls, and follow the latest fashions. I guess when they see a fashion show on TV they actually take it as a suggestion to go an buy this type of clothes and wear it. Bright colors, elegant designs, jewelry on women and poignant color shirts on men are the norm. People dress as if they go to a party or a theater. A total holiday atmosphere is seen in many places, especially in the downtown areas.
One thing about the Anglosphere that I loath with passion is that one simply cannot dress well- sneakers and jeans and denim and rat-and-sparrow colors are the norm. People dress down. If you dress up you invite raised eyebrows and get called a freak. People can make nasty remarks. Not here. You have people dress themselves and their kids like they would a barbie doll and it is the norm. I sometimes wonder why in America or Britain and the rest of the Anglo world, supposedly very open and liberal societies, people dress like they are sanitation workers or they are in mourning- while they have the impression that these E Euro countries are babushka countries where people dress grimly and everything is colorless whereas it is the other way around! My mother still dresses the local way and she gets a snide remarks every once in while in the US- even in the rich Palm Springs aea of California.
I remember when we were in Singapore I was dressed in a Hawaiian shirt and she was brightly dressed and we sat in a restaurant while a bunch of black-shirt-and-dark-denim Brits were startled when we walked in, and were giving us scornful, mocking looks and whispering something to each other. Now, how can these liberal Brits, the ones who had given the world the Beatles be more provincial than us, people who are supposedly from a backwater country on the edge? Are they training to be monks or something?
And what is the purpose of all these wild fashion shows after which people again dress in dark, blue collar like attires and walk around looking like they are the lowest of serfs. Here peasants dress better than that.
This is still one mystery I cannot understand. I also got called a clown and a fag several times because I tried to dress well in the company of Americans and Brits. They have told me that " I have a girl in me" and "it is the girl in me that is coming out". The mockery only subsided when I myself began dressing in subdued colors with no designs. I became a gray rat like them.
I can finally be myself and dress nicely and no one looks at me here. Not for long though as I am Manila bound and it is another rat-and-sparrow society as far as clothing goes.
Sex and kamasutra are on TV here, btw. Sex DVDs are sold in regular shops and on the streets. Suggestive music videos say with a singer "having sex" whle dressed mind you though, with a table are in plain view in broad daylight on main channels. "Sex music" with moaning comes over the radio.
Is freedom migrating this way, then?
d) Now there is total free wheeling capitalism just like in the US in the 1920ies. All services are available, all kinds of restaurants are available too. Prices are lower than in the US as a rule but not as cheap as the Philippines.
e) There is little interference of the police/law into people's daily lives unless heinous crimes are being committed. This is one part I like. No such things as no loitering or obstructing traffic. There is also no conspiracy charge in the judicial system here. You are only tried for crimes you have actually committed, not those you are planning to commit. No feminism.You can court girls here and they will not sue you if you tell them they have a nice figure. You can slap your misbehaving kid and spank him/her. You can yell at the kid who does nasty things.
Yes, if you have a vineyard ( or simply access to wine), you can give your 10 year old kid some wine to taste. You will not be imprisoned for it.
I once saw this huge extended family in a rooftop restaurant having a feast. They were all drinking wine including the kids and no one stopped them. Wine is considered to be almost sacred here. Now giving kids vodka( called gorilka here) would be a different story, perhaps.
Teenagers ( or even pre-teenagers) often smoke. Guys can take off their shirts on a hot day and walk around. You can buy a bottle of beer, sit on a city bench and drink it. No one cares.
Unlike there is an actual physical fight, cops do not bother with people who yell and argue for hours.
In just about every restaurant and bar you can smoke. You can buy a cigar in an English pub and smoke. No one will say a word- that is what a pub is for, after all.
Public transportation is very cheap- a berth in a sleeper compartment for a 12 hour trip from city to city here is only some $14-16 one way. Tram cars are 12c.
Negative things: services are still not up to par with the West. Laws change all the time. The country is not stable. You do not know which way things will turn from day to day and how foreigners living here or visiting here will be affected. Corruption and embezzlement are commonplace. The country is rich but the leaders are either simple or dishonest. Starting a business here is risky. Getting married is also risky unless you know people very well, but even then... Meeting good people is not easy. You need to be in the right circles.
The poor are now very poor and there are slums and gutted out cities and towns as you go through the countryside. Places like Detroit ghettos are common. Ukraine also has its own rust belt, just like the US.
There is little English here as this country is very very far from the Anglosphere. Contrary to Hollywood's portrayal of the world as a huge English speaking planet albeit with different cute accents, most of the world- some 65% of it do not speak it. It is especially true here. Signs are 'bilingual' - in Russian and Ukrainian, but rarely in English. Most restaurants here in Odessa do not have English language menus. It is a Cyrillic world. How they think they will invite foreigners here is beyond me. I have not been to Kiev yet, maybe things are better there.
Even though this is Ukraine, the country is very disunited, with little national cohesiveness. The government is trying to unite people with one common language and 19th century style nationalism by imposing the old Ukrainian language and closing movie theaters in other languages; however, it may be a century before this land develops some national homogeneity ( like Japan for one) or linguistic- such as America, as another example.
There is still a City State mentality and people are loyal to the city and the province they live in. To them, it is a 'country'. They see their city identity as a 'nationality' of sorts. Odessa, for example is a world apart and some even want to become an independent city-state as Singapore. The population is very ethnically mixed with 93 different ethnic groups represented. They use a weird dialect of Russian -to communicate. Ukrainian is now the medium of instruction but no one speaks it in daily life. They are just Odessites- a "nation" apart and they are culturally unique and will probably never speak Ukrainian here. An Odessite is a nationality and an ethnic group of its own.
Many Cossacks,too, simply see themselves as Cossacks by ethnicity/nationality and they have their own dialect and culture. It is a complex patchwork of identities there.
Half the country, period, speaks Russian albeit with an accent and only uses Ukrainian for documents and in school. Speaking Ukrainian is see as tacky and weird in many parts. Therefore, unless you plan to live in the Far West provinces, do not bother learning Ukrainian if you decide to come here.
The nationality is still separated from citizenship. Ukrainian nationality is ethnic/racial and is for people with Ukrainian names,blood and Ukrainian faces- yes, they can recognize each other. Birth here ( if you are of non Ukrainian ethnic origin- as in my case) means jack sh*t and does not make you a Ukrainian. Children of Russians here, for example, will never be Ukrainian ethnically- but by citizenship- sure. Sykorsky is on example- he was born in Kiev but he is not Ukrainian ethnically and never will be one.
This is like Japan or China or Korea in that respect. There is no such thing as" Ukrainian born and raised"- this phrase can only mean that you grew up in a Ukrainian ethnic family but it could be anywhere on earth. Only some people now are starting to think of creating a civic ( vs. ethnic) nationality so that the country would be more united. But it is still a long way off.
There is no political correctness and racial, fascist, anti-semitic literature and jokes as well as anti-Russian books are freely sold everywhere. Laws against enticing ethnic hatred are on books but are rarely enforced.
However, paradoxically, on a social level, ethnicity matters little and people do not congregate based on ethnicity. Everybody usually mingles socially with others and intermarries easily. Unlike in the US- the opposite, basically- where an enormous section of the population is American on paper but congregates with others based on ethnicity, and sticks with his own kind. Blacks with Blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, etc.
Homosexuality is a no- no here. Plus very few of them are ever seen. OTOH, there are few other sickos and mental cases. Most people are just , well, normal.
On a neutral note, this is now a neutral country that tries to be on equal terms with Russia and the West and does not want to rock the boat. It is not a hard place to get into, either and is not as bureaucratic as Russia and not as xenophobic/paranoid. The mentality here is "sobi na umi"- each to his own mind, and "moya hata skrayu" - my hut is on the edge of the village -meaning- I don't know anything/ do not want to get involved.
I hope the visa regime does not change or only changes for the better.
Meeting people here is not easy as everyone is busy and has little time for talking to others. There are bars you can hang out in but again meeting people needs to be by making one friend, then another and just adding more and more people to your group as you go along. This is not the Philippines where people talk to you on the street.
There is no hail-fellow-well-met mentality here. Talking to strangers is not a taboo, but invites grim looks as they check you out. Some 30 minutes are needed for them to warm up to you. Then you are in, they give you cellphone numbers and invite you to hang out.
English teaching jobs are not as plentiful as in Russia. I have applied- sent resumes and never heard from them. Those who did get jobs here, actually went to schools, knocked on doors and demanded jobs. I still do not have the guts to do it. Not for $800 a month anyway.
Conclusion: a nice place to spend time and money in and to live a good life for a while. Not a good place to stay in long term for average international middle income Joes. Ukraine is good for PTs like myself who have no plan to marry/start families and settle down. It is also good for people with portable net based incomes. If you are established in the USA/the West, you can find a wife here who will be happy to resettle. There are oodles of blondes, brunettes and redhead girls that look like Hollywood starlets. The best girls are in the countryside- family oriented and honest although very naive and often described as "dumb".
City slickers are stuck up and not very reliable. They can talk a blue streak, though. Intellectualism is respected here. Provided it is paired with money.
Starting a business here is dangerous as is investing money in the overpriced real estate.
The above is again only my impression and some other people can see the country completely differently. Anyway, please check out my album or picture updates to see the 900+ images to give you an idea of the country:
http://s629.photobucket.com/albums/uu20/tambok17/
I still have not written in the descriptions as I had no time. Mostly these are pictures of Yalta, Odessa and Lviv.
To sum up my trip- Ukraine is a great place to visit and spend time in. I would not want to live here all the time though, especially, in the winter.
Some points: I am a foreigner here, just like any of you would be. This country has strange laws- no dual citizenship is allowed by the Constitution. I came on a 3 month visa on arrival and can only stay for 90 days over a 180 day period. Just because I was born here ( unlike in most countries in the Americas) they would never consider me one of them or give me any special privileges. I envy Winston who can go to TW and hang out there and well, even live there. I cannot do the same here. Because of the weird local citizenship laws.
I did not score with girls here because in the Odessa region there seem to be more guys than girls. I saw some stunners though. But I was shy to talk to them because I am 49 years old and age does matter here. This is not the Philippines.
Girls that look like Maureen McCormick
http://www.ttinet.com/mccormick/images/p03.gif
- my ideal of beauty- are in big numbers ( and so are the guys that look like Patrick Swazy)
But they would pay me no mind. One fat girl from Kiev tried to pick me up and take me home but I did not find her particularly appealing to my taste.
Anyway:
a) The architecture is very impressive,grand and ornate. The nature is also grand and smells good. The steppes are fragrant, with all kinds of wild flowers, birds and insects. The air is very fresh and again smells of flowers. Everything is very green and pleasant.
b) The food is totally fresh- some large restaurants have their own farms to raise both crops and animals. Fish is fresh and is just recently from the sea. Menus in restaurants are like pages in a magazine or a large book. The choice of dishes is enormous. Everything has this rich, intense and 'aromatic' taste- yes, that is how I would describe it- the food exudes an aroma while you chew on it and it gets into your nostrils. This is the result of being grown on the richest black soil on earth- the country's main treasure.
c) The culture/way of life is now very dynamic and sophisticated. People like to dress well, dres their kids like barbie dolls, and follow the latest fashions. I guess when they see a fashion show on TV they actually take it as a suggestion to go an buy this type of clothes and wear it. Bright colors, elegant designs, jewelry on women and poignant color shirts on men are the norm. People dress as if they go to a party or a theater. A total holiday atmosphere is seen in many places, especially in the downtown areas.
One thing about the Anglosphere that I loath with passion is that one simply cannot dress well- sneakers and jeans and denim and rat-and-sparrow colors are the norm. People dress down. If you dress up you invite raised eyebrows and get called a freak. People can make nasty remarks. Not here. You have people dress themselves and their kids like they would a barbie doll and it is the norm. I sometimes wonder why in America or Britain and the rest of the Anglo world, supposedly very open and liberal societies, people dress like they are sanitation workers or they are in mourning- while they have the impression that these E Euro countries are babushka countries where people dress grimly and everything is colorless whereas it is the other way around! My mother still dresses the local way and she gets a snide remarks every once in while in the US- even in the rich Palm Springs aea of California.
I remember when we were in Singapore I was dressed in a Hawaiian shirt and she was brightly dressed and we sat in a restaurant while a bunch of black-shirt-and-dark-denim Brits were startled when we walked in, and were giving us scornful, mocking looks and whispering something to each other. Now, how can these liberal Brits, the ones who had given the world the Beatles be more provincial than us, people who are supposedly from a backwater country on the edge? Are they training to be monks or something?
And what is the purpose of all these wild fashion shows after which people again dress in dark, blue collar like attires and walk around looking like they are the lowest of serfs. Here peasants dress better than that.
This is still one mystery I cannot understand. I also got called a clown and a fag several times because I tried to dress well in the company of Americans and Brits. They have told me that " I have a girl in me" and "it is the girl in me that is coming out". The mockery only subsided when I myself began dressing in subdued colors with no designs. I became a gray rat like them.
I can finally be myself and dress nicely and no one looks at me here. Not for long though as I am Manila bound and it is another rat-and-sparrow society as far as clothing goes.
Sex and kamasutra are on TV here, btw. Sex DVDs are sold in regular shops and on the streets. Suggestive music videos say with a singer "having sex" whle dressed mind you though, with a table are in plain view in broad daylight on main channels. "Sex music" with moaning comes over the radio.
Is freedom migrating this way, then?
d) Now there is total free wheeling capitalism just like in the US in the 1920ies. All services are available, all kinds of restaurants are available too. Prices are lower than in the US as a rule but not as cheap as the Philippines.
e) There is little interference of the police/law into people's daily lives unless heinous crimes are being committed. This is one part I like. No such things as no loitering or obstructing traffic. There is also no conspiracy charge in the judicial system here. You are only tried for crimes you have actually committed, not those you are planning to commit. No feminism.You can court girls here and they will not sue you if you tell them they have a nice figure. You can slap your misbehaving kid and spank him/her. You can yell at the kid who does nasty things.
Yes, if you have a vineyard ( or simply access to wine), you can give your 10 year old kid some wine to taste. You will not be imprisoned for it.
I once saw this huge extended family in a rooftop restaurant having a feast. They were all drinking wine including the kids and no one stopped them. Wine is considered to be almost sacred here. Now giving kids vodka( called gorilka here) would be a different story, perhaps.
Teenagers ( or even pre-teenagers) often smoke. Guys can take off their shirts on a hot day and walk around. You can buy a bottle of beer, sit on a city bench and drink it. No one cares.
Unlike there is an actual physical fight, cops do not bother with people who yell and argue for hours.
In just about every restaurant and bar you can smoke. You can buy a cigar in an English pub and smoke. No one will say a word- that is what a pub is for, after all.
Public transportation is very cheap- a berth in a sleeper compartment for a 12 hour trip from city to city here is only some $14-16 one way. Tram cars are 12c.
Negative things: services are still not up to par with the West. Laws change all the time. The country is not stable. You do not know which way things will turn from day to day and how foreigners living here or visiting here will be affected. Corruption and embezzlement are commonplace. The country is rich but the leaders are either simple or dishonest. Starting a business here is risky. Getting married is also risky unless you know people very well, but even then... Meeting good people is not easy. You need to be in the right circles.
The poor are now very poor and there are slums and gutted out cities and towns as you go through the countryside. Places like Detroit ghettos are common. Ukraine also has its own rust belt, just like the US.
There is little English here as this country is very very far from the Anglosphere. Contrary to Hollywood's portrayal of the world as a huge English speaking planet albeit with different cute accents, most of the world- some 65% of it do not speak it. It is especially true here. Signs are 'bilingual' - in Russian and Ukrainian, but rarely in English. Most restaurants here in Odessa do not have English language menus. It is a Cyrillic world. How they think they will invite foreigners here is beyond me. I have not been to Kiev yet, maybe things are better there.
Even though this is Ukraine, the country is very disunited, with little national cohesiveness. The government is trying to unite people with one common language and 19th century style nationalism by imposing the old Ukrainian language and closing movie theaters in other languages; however, it may be a century before this land develops some national homogeneity ( like Japan for one) or linguistic- such as America, as another example.
There is still a City State mentality and people are loyal to the city and the province they live in. To them, it is a 'country'. They see their city identity as a 'nationality' of sorts. Odessa, for example is a world apart and some even want to become an independent city-state as Singapore. The population is very ethnically mixed with 93 different ethnic groups represented. They use a weird dialect of Russian -to communicate. Ukrainian is now the medium of instruction but no one speaks it in daily life. They are just Odessites- a "nation" apart and they are culturally unique and will probably never speak Ukrainian here. An Odessite is a nationality and an ethnic group of its own.
Many Cossacks,too, simply see themselves as Cossacks by ethnicity/nationality and they have their own dialect and culture. It is a complex patchwork of identities there.
Half the country, period, speaks Russian albeit with an accent and only uses Ukrainian for documents and in school. Speaking Ukrainian is see as tacky and weird in many parts. Therefore, unless you plan to live in the Far West provinces, do not bother learning Ukrainian if you decide to come here.
The nationality is still separated from citizenship. Ukrainian nationality is ethnic/racial and is for people with Ukrainian names,blood and Ukrainian faces- yes, they can recognize each other. Birth here ( if you are of non Ukrainian ethnic origin- as in my case) means jack sh*t and does not make you a Ukrainian. Children of Russians here, for example, will never be Ukrainian ethnically- but by citizenship- sure. Sykorsky is on example- he was born in Kiev but he is not Ukrainian ethnically and never will be one.
This is like Japan or China or Korea in that respect. There is no such thing as" Ukrainian born and raised"- this phrase can only mean that you grew up in a Ukrainian ethnic family but it could be anywhere on earth. Only some people now are starting to think of creating a civic ( vs. ethnic) nationality so that the country would be more united. But it is still a long way off.
There is no political correctness and racial, fascist, anti-semitic literature and jokes as well as anti-Russian books are freely sold everywhere. Laws against enticing ethnic hatred are on books but are rarely enforced.
However, paradoxically, on a social level, ethnicity matters little and people do not congregate based on ethnicity. Everybody usually mingles socially with others and intermarries easily. Unlike in the US- the opposite, basically- where an enormous section of the population is American on paper but congregates with others based on ethnicity, and sticks with his own kind. Blacks with Blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, etc.
Homosexuality is a no- no here. Plus very few of them are ever seen. OTOH, there are few other sickos and mental cases. Most people are just , well, normal.
On a neutral note, this is now a neutral country that tries to be on equal terms with Russia and the West and does not want to rock the boat. It is not a hard place to get into, either and is not as bureaucratic as Russia and not as xenophobic/paranoid. The mentality here is "sobi na umi"- each to his own mind, and "moya hata skrayu" - my hut is on the edge of the village -meaning- I don't know anything/ do not want to get involved.
I hope the visa regime does not change or only changes for the better.
Meeting people here is not easy as everyone is busy and has little time for talking to others. There are bars you can hang out in but again meeting people needs to be by making one friend, then another and just adding more and more people to your group as you go along. This is not the Philippines where people talk to you on the street.
There is no hail-fellow-well-met mentality here. Talking to strangers is not a taboo, but invites grim looks as they check you out. Some 30 minutes are needed for them to warm up to you. Then you are in, they give you cellphone numbers and invite you to hang out.
English teaching jobs are not as plentiful as in Russia. I have applied- sent resumes and never heard from them. Those who did get jobs here, actually went to schools, knocked on doors and demanded jobs. I still do not have the guts to do it. Not for $800 a month anyway.
Conclusion: a nice place to spend time and money in and to live a good life for a while. Not a good place to stay in long term for average international middle income Joes. Ukraine is good for PTs like myself who have no plan to marry/start families and settle down. It is also good for people with portable net based incomes. If you are established in the USA/the West, you can find a wife here who will be happy to resettle. There are oodles of blondes, brunettes and redhead girls that look like Hollywood starlets. The best girls are in the countryside- family oriented and honest although very naive and often described as "dumb".
City slickers are stuck up and not very reliable. They can talk a blue streak, though. Intellectualism is respected here. Provided it is paired with money.
Starting a business here is dangerous as is investing money in the overpriced real estate.
The above is again only my impression and some other people can see the country completely differently. Anyway, please check out my album or picture updates to see the 900+ images to give you an idea of the country:
http://s629.photobucket.com/albums/uu20/tambok17/
I still have not written in the descriptions as I had no time. Mostly these are pictures of Yalta, Odessa and Lviv.
Last edited by ladislav on June 11th, 2009, 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Fascinating report and commentary Ladislav, thank you for sharing.
How are Asians treated in the Ukraine? Is the general perception negative, neutral, or positive?
Ukrainian women do seem to be some of the most beautiful in the world. Alas, the life satisfaction/subjective happiness ratings are reported to be low, and the divorce rate reported to be very high. So, seems that long-term relationship prospects (as with Russian women) are not good. What are your impressions of gender relations there?
How are Asians treated in the Ukraine? Is the general perception negative, neutral, or positive?
Ukrainian women do seem to be some of the most beautiful in the world. Alas, the life satisfaction/subjective happiness ratings are reported to be low, and the divorce rate reported to be very high. So, seems that long-term relationship prospects (as with Russian women) are not good. What are your impressions of gender relations there?
I have little idea how Asians are treated in Ukraine as far as AM-UW relationships go. Winston scored with a 19 year old girl there. As far as Asians in general, well, there are quite a few local born Koreans there and they look happy. There are no ethnic enclaves of any kind if you ask me. Not anymore, at least. The country does not seem to like unassimilated aliens. The assimilated ones are OK. So, I guess the situation is pretty good unless there may be a huge influx of Asians into the country. I have heard some people talk about trying to invite more Japanese to come and visit.
Ukie women are proud, and a bit aloof. It takes time to get to know them. I guess if you want them to stick around, you have to make it worth their while and treat them very well. It works better with country girls than city slickers.
Why not go and find out?
Ukie women are proud, and a bit aloof. It takes time to get to know them. I guess if you want them to stick around, you have to make it worth their while and treat them very well. It works better with country girls than city slickers.
Why not go and find out?
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Back in Manila
It was so weird flying from Odessa to Manila. Just the very journey- Odessa- Istanbul- Dubai- Manila It was as if I joined my distant past with my newly found present. But the culture shock! Uncanny! We all tend to have a culture shock but it is usually US vs some other country. Now I was comparing Ukraine to the Philippines. Gone is the ornate architecture and fancy clothes. But also gone are the cynical faces and grim expressions of Odessa people. Gone is the blond crowd. I am now in the sea of Asia. I feel strange! But Filipinos smile no matter what, endure things stoically and never complain. And they are two times poorer than Ukrainians.
Ukrainians can learn a lot from them.
When at Odessa airport, I met a Texan- a real cowboy. He was extatic about Ukraine as he is married there now and is living in a small provincial town. After the dscussion of life in Ukraine we have come to the conclusion that he was feeling completely at home there because he has found America in it- free, unrestricted by petty laws, with wide open prairies ( steppes) and freedom loving people- Cossacks are very much like cowboys.
I was very happy for him.
Anyway, Manila, I am back!
I have many homes on Planet Earth. All beautiful. All mine!
Ukrainians can learn a lot from them.
When at Odessa airport, I met a Texan- a real cowboy. He was extatic about Ukraine as he is married there now and is living in a small provincial town. After the dscussion of life in Ukraine we have come to the conclusion that he was feeling completely at home there because he has found America in it- free, unrestricted by petty laws, with wide open prairies ( steppes) and freedom loving people- Cossacks are very much like cowboys.
I was very happy for him.
Anyway, Manila, I am back!
I have many homes on Planet Earth. All beautiful. All mine!
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I remember taking an unairconditioned train in the heat of the summer. There was this woman with a great MILF figure (and her small daughter), and she simply took off her shirt, showing her ample breasts in the bra. I should have attempted talking to her, but somehow I thought it would have been rude.ladislav wrote:All around beaches you see girls in bikinis. Some just cover their breasts with towels and walk around. Some wear something like G-strings. Guys walk into a tram car and take off their T shirst and sit around in shorts only. No one gives a darn.
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MoscowSummerNights
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Ukraine
He is correct that the gorgeous young women of the Ukraine are generally NOT interested in American men (or any foreigners) and the whole mail order bride industry is mostly lying to you about that. Women 18-22 from southern Ukraine on those bride sites are generally not available and I was shocked that they were among the most rude and feminist women I have ever met. Most agencies stay in business churning letters to idiots who don't know that the letters are not being written in any way by the woman in question...who couldn't care less about him and his obnoxious letters
I find the women get nicer as their IQ and sophistication and class status goes UP not down. I am over 40 and I dated and slept with the best looking 23 yr old college student in a big city...from a rich family. In the big cities a 49 yr old American businessman can do well with college coeds who are really well educated and on the ball. The same man would strike out with women from the countryside or smaller cities. In the smaller cities, they simply cannot imagine living in a foreign country and they believe propaganda saying foreigners will sell the into slavery. But even then...just seek the smartest and most beautiful -smart means really smart-- forget about trying to get those who may have just flirted with you. Ironically, those are the ones who will reject you or lose interest. Go for the ones that seem harder to get and you will do better. Never, even in the USA, accept that you are too old for any adult woman. Hit the gym if you have to but don't accept defeat like that.
Regarding gypsies...why would a man in paradise go to dinner with women he is not sexually attracted to? It isn't "liberal" to sacrifice your time and money that way. It is just a poor use of time and maybe an indication that you were scared of being rejected by the type of women you wanted to sleep with. They were honest about separating you from people who would never have become your friends. 200 Griven is a huge amount of money BTW.
I find the women get nicer as their IQ and sophistication and class status goes UP not down. I am over 40 and I dated and slept with the best looking 23 yr old college student in a big city...from a rich family. In the big cities a 49 yr old American businessman can do well with college coeds who are really well educated and on the ball. The same man would strike out with women from the countryside or smaller cities. In the smaller cities, they simply cannot imagine living in a foreign country and they believe propaganda saying foreigners will sell the into slavery. But even then...just seek the smartest and most beautiful -smart means really smart-- forget about trying to get those who may have just flirted with you. Ironically, those are the ones who will reject you or lose interest. Go for the ones that seem harder to get and you will do better. Never, even in the USA, accept that you are too old for any adult woman. Hit the gym if you have to but don't accept defeat like that.
Regarding gypsies...why would a man in paradise go to dinner with women he is not sexually attracted to? It isn't "liberal" to sacrifice your time and money that way. It is just a poor use of time and maybe an indication that you were scared of being rejected by the type of women you wanted to sleep with. They were honest about separating you from people who would never have become your friends. 200 Griven is a huge amount of money BTW.
Plaintiffs needed to fight IMBRA and VAWA which legally codify foreign women as little children unable to defend themselves against evil American men
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MoscowSummerNights
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My experience in the Ukraine is that, if you try to get laid fast by lowering your standards and hanging out with 19 year old disco denizens, you will just spend money and get nowhere or nowhere you really want to go.
If, however, you try during daylight hours to meet the classiest, best dressed and smartest of women...as long as you are from their IQ and class level in the US (equivalent) have a buzz cut, decent shoulders and no pot belly...you can do amazingly well. Age will not matter.
Women who hang out at discos often have 2 digit IQs. Half of all people have 2 digit IQs. Avoid them if you are above that.
About buzz cuts...many US males fail to realize that hair longer than half an inch looks really stupid on any male over 35.
Comb overs will get you rejected in a split second in Eastern Europe. Go bald or go buzz cut but don't be seen with hair longer than a half inch. You've been warned.
If, however, you try during daylight hours to meet the classiest, best dressed and smartest of women...as long as you are from their IQ and class level in the US (equivalent) have a buzz cut, decent shoulders and no pot belly...you can do amazingly well. Age will not matter.
Women who hang out at discos often have 2 digit IQs. Half of all people have 2 digit IQs. Avoid them if you are above that.
About buzz cuts...many US males fail to realize that hair longer than half an inch looks really stupid on any male over 35.
Comb overs will get you rejected in a split second in Eastern Europe. Go bald or go buzz cut but don't be seen with hair longer than a half inch. You've been warned.
Plaintiffs needed to fight IMBRA and VAWA which legally codify foreign women as little children unable to defend themselves against evil American men
Re: Ukraine
Gorgeous Ukrainian girls will date foreigners if foreigners court them on the same terms as the locals- get in line, that is! But again it depends on the place. Ukraine is very diverse socially and ethnically. The South is notorious for stuck up women- in Odessa, there are just too many good looking guys with money. It is all supply and demand. In the West they may be easier to get but again, you will need to speak some language. In Kiev, the Capital? Oh well. Big city b---ches. Same as anywhere.
The deal with girls in Ukraine is that it is going to take time to court them and win their hearts and you would need to go there and hang out and follow the local customs. Girls who only like foreigners because they are foreigners are bad everywhere.
Hollywood perpetuates an image of an unhappy, poor world that is dying to go to the US and poor starving countries everywhere whose beautiful girls, totally fluent in English, by the way, are taking off their panties and spreading their legs every time they see an American appear on the horizon. They all want a green card and they are dying to marry him and go live in the US. Enter a swaggering Amerikano, making snide comments in English, looking down on the locals , never ever even cracking a book about the local language or culture or history- because the world speaks Englihs, does not it and wants to be part of the US, does not it? - and whisking the girl away to sunny Hollywood to save her from starvation to the applauds of her village and the villagers.
Ah, how illusory! You follow that formula and you will get your ass kicked! You will be taken to the cleaners too. Maybe even get killed.
The " I am an American, king of the world, come hither ye maiden" works with very miserable ugly or poor people in some countries that had been under the US control- the Philippines, maybe Japan even- overaged women whom nobody wants, maybe VN with some girls. Haiti, maybe?
This approach does not work in countries that have no complex towards the US and do not give a sh-t about it! . Like Thailand, for one. Or Ukraine. People there are free and independent and they are not going to be kowtowing to an American. They do not even use the Roman alphabet, and there is no English. Contrary to the Hollywood portrayal of the world.
Yeah, be warned. Respect or get your ass kicked. Like I had mine kicked in a few places.
I only got some respect from remote village people in Ukraine who thought I was great. Not city people. These would not even give me time of day. And I can speak the language! Think about those who cannot even put a sentence together.
The deal with girls in Ukraine is that it is going to take time to court them and win their hearts and you would need to go there and hang out and follow the local customs. Girls who only like foreigners because they are foreigners are bad everywhere.
Hollywood perpetuates an image of an unhappy, poor world that is dying to go to the US and poor starving countries everywhere whose beautiful girls, totally fluent in English, by the way, are taking off their panties and spreading their legs every time they see an American appear on the horizon. They all want a green card and they are dying to marry him and go live in the US. Enter a swaggering Amerikano, making snide comments in English, looking down on the locals , never ever even cracking a book about the local language or culture or history- because the world speaks Englihs, does not it and wants to be part of the US, does not it? - and whisking the girl away to sunny Hollywood to save her from starvation to the applauds of her village and the villagers.
Ah, how illusory! You follow that formula and you will get your ass kicked! You will be taken to the cleaners too. Maybe even get killed.
The " I am an American, king of the world, come hither ye maiden" works with very miserable ugly or poor people in some countries that had been under the US control- the Philippines, maybe Japan even- overaged women whom nobody wants, maybe VN with some girls. Haiti, maybe?
This approach does not work in countries that have no complex towards the US and do not give a sh-t about it! . Like Thailand, for one. Or Ukraine. People there are free and independent and they are not going to be kowtowing to an American. They do not even use the Roman alphabet, and there is no English. Contrary to the Hollywood portrayal of the world.
Yeah, be warned. Respect or get your ass kicked. Like I had mine kicked in a few places.
I only got some respect from remote village people in Ukraine who thought I was great. Not city people. These would not even give me time of day. And I can speak the language! Think about those who cannot even put a sentence together.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Re: Ukraine
Interesting thread. With regards the age issue, then what is it? I am 45 but look around 36(37) I'm i still out of the possibility of being with an attractive 20 something from Ukraine?MoscowSummerNights wrote: I find the women get nicer as their IQ and sophistication and class status goes UP not down. I am over 40 and I dated and slept with the best looking 23 yr old college student in a big city...from a rich family. In the big cities a 49 yr old American businessman can do well with college coeds who are really well educated and on the ball.
Vadislav says the age issue is very important. I have a friend of mine who is 45 and is struggling financially in that city (he lives there though) and he tells me that he f***s all kinds of women of all ages, including twenty-somethings, recently he said he was with a nineteen year old.
The disappointing thing about Ukraine women, at least the women in Kiev, my friend (same guy as mentioned above) when he had a car would give rides to women hitchhiking in Kiev. He would only choose pretty ones. Basically he would offer them this: pay in griven or blow me. He told me that 40% of the women he gave rides to would suck him off him instead of paying.
I am not condoning this guy's way of getting p***y, but it really sheds a lot of light on just what Kiev women will do.
SaturdayNightSpecial, I think you misread something. They were saying that Ukrainian girls will date older men, so if you're 45, you're out of luck with young American women, not young Ukrainian women. Unless you own Playboy magazine or something like that. lol
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
Thanks Vinstonas -- i certianly would hope so, but I pulled a quote from ladisalv:Vinstonas wrote:SaturdayNightSpecial, I think you misread something. They were saying that Ukrainian girls will date older men, so if you're 45, you're out of luck with young American women, not young Ukrainian women. Unless you own Playboy magazine or something like that. lol
Update: back in Odessa and just relaxing before I get ready to leave the country. If all goes well, I will be going to Manila later tonight.
To sum up my trip- Ukraine is a great place to visit and spend time in. I would not want to live here all the time though, especially, in the winter.
Some points: I am a foreigner here, just like any of you would be. This country has strange laws- no dual citizenship is allowed by the Constitution. I came on a 3 month visa on arrival and can only stay for 90 days over a 180 day period. Just because I was born here ( unlike in most countries in the Americas) they would never consider me one of them or give me any special privileges. I envy Winston who can go to TW and hang out there and well, even live there. I cannot do the same here. Because of the weird local citizenship laws.
I did not score with girls here because in the Odessa region there seem to be more guys than girls. I saw some stunners though. But I was shy to talk to them because I am 49 years old and age does matter here. This is not the Philippines.
Girls that look like Maureen McCormick
http://www.ttinet.com/mccormick/images/p03.gif
- my ideal of beauty- are in big numbers ( and so are the guys that look like Patrick Swazy)
Re: Ukraine
Here's my impressions from my travels there Ladislav, and respectfully I do not mean to say you are wrong and i am right. But I get the impression that Ukranian women could care less about any American man who takes the time to "open a book" and learn of their culture. I find that the Ukrainians are just as indifferent to their history as Americans are to theirs, barring the rare exceptions. So what if you know the history of her country and her culture? She won't be dropping her pants or giving you an instant blow-job.ladislav wrote:Enter a swaggering Amerikano, making snide comments in English, looking down on the locals , never ever even cracking a book about the local language or culture or history- because the world speaks Englihs, does not it and wants to be part of the US, does not it? - and whisking the girl away to sunny Hollywood to save her from starvation to the applauds of her village and the villagers.
Ah, how illusory!
I get the impression its Ka-Ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that the Ukrainian women like, pure and simple.
And also somehow I do not think that they are not impressed when a Ukrainian girl meets and American who speaks Russian or Ukraine.
Again, I get the impression its Ka-Ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that the Ukrainian women like, pure and simple.
And also somehow I sense, based on the negative responses I have experienced, that speaking Russian to a Ukraine or Russian female, she sees you as 'supplicating' to her when you speak her language.
Again, I get the impression its Ka-Ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that the Ukrainian women like, pure and simple.
I do not want to sound harsh, but i have to be honest here, I see them as money hungry parasites. Exceptions would be the old fat babushkas pan handling in the streets, and I'm sure that she was not born looking like that and can imagine what an obnoxious pig she acted like back in her prime.
Maybe its me, but I think I make come across as a good decent normal guy, and am doing everything right in order to establish dialog and rapport with them.
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