Why Western Men Should Move to Ukraine

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I know, Coach Red Pill is a bit of a douche, and his moniker is a misnomer because he is not very "red pill" at all.

HOWEVER, he is right on target with this bit of advice that I have been trying to tell the younger guys (and older guys too) for years. But only the non-idiots need apply. Case in point, former member EuroBrat crashed and burned in Ukraine and gave up the HappierAbroad concept altogether. As predictable as that was for him (he's an idiot), men with half a brain will THRIVE in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe.

[Yohan]

..... only the non-idiots need apply. Case in point, former member EuroBrat crashed and burned in Ukraine and gave up the HappierAbroad concept altogether. As predictable as that was for him (he's an idiot), men with half a brain will THRIVE in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe.

There is a long thread about Eurobrat and his experiences in Ukraine. He was meeting her by internet, talking online 6 months and had sex the first day he arrived and after a weekend he found they do not fit to each other - finally disappointed, he was starting to talk about 'Why not be happier at home?' and also said 'Americans live far better than most other countries I have visited and have more disposable income'.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37494

I think he just does not fit to a life in Eastern Europe - and about women in Eastern Europe and Russia opinions are very divided. Some find it the best place for looking for a wife, others are telling you horror stories.

What Eurobrat says about the woman he met is so 50/50.
I found him to be weak in arguments when facing a woman from East Europe - somehow asking her for 'consent' for all and everything what he is doing... do you like this? shall I do this? etc. Such submissive feminist-style behavior coming from a man does not work well with East European women.

You should better do what local men are doing with the girlfriend, wife and their children - give them clear orders and they have to follow (and they will follow!) and don't ask for politically correct 'permission' from your 'equals'. Have strict rules, otherwise East European women will make fun out of you, they will just do what they want and will not respect you any longer.

----

I am not interested in that region, but if you really go there be aware this is a rather poor place, and not so safe, in permanent confrontation with Russia and to earn money in such a country is not so easy - you need some secure income from somewhere else if you want to live there as a foreigner.

About women regardless from where, my opinion is NEVER bring her back to your Western country - it is YOU who should relocate to her country. Forget from where you are from and ALWAYS prefer to live in her place...

[jamesbond]

I know, Coach Red Pill is a bit of a douche, and his moniker is a misnomer because he is not very "red pill" at all.

HOWEVER, he is right on target with this bit of advice that I have been trying to tell the younger guys (and older guys too) for years. But only the non-idiots need apply. Case in point, former member EuroBrat crashed and burned in Ukraine and gave up the HappierAbroad concept altogether. As predictable as that was for him (he's an idiot), men with half a brain will THRIVE in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe.

I recently subscribed to his channel, he does make some good videos and this one about moving to Ukraine makes a lot of sense. He is married to a Ukrainian woman and has one or two kids with her.

Even he hates his YouTube channel name, "Coach Red Pill" but he uses it to get clicks and views on his videos since the concept of the "red pill" is big now.

[MatureDJ]

And how to get a visa to stay more than 90 days?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

And how to get a visa to stay more than 90 days?

As much as it is tempting guys, you should never rely on a forum such as this to give you reliable visa information. Visa requirements change literally all
the time so you have to go straight to the horse's mouth, a Ukrainian Consulate or their Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

https://mfa.gov.ua/en/consular-affairs/con/visa

If you go to Ukraine and are serious about getting residency, hire a local visa or immigration attorney to walk you through the process. Applying on your own is risky and my jeopardize your ability to later qualify for a residency permit.

[Shemp]

Agree that you absolutely should use a local lawyer, however the most common legal way to get residency, without marriage, involves some dodginess which official website obviously does not discuss.

Basically, you create a company which then hires yourself as employee. To create enough profits to justify hiring a foreigner, you buy "consulting services" from this company. The whole thing is ridiculously circular, but perfectly legal. The government tolerates these fake businesses because it gets annual fees for the business license, more money as taxes on the profits, plus you are giving more money to a Ukrainian lawyer plus the lawyer gives money to bureaucrats to "expedite" the process (bribes). Net cost is like $2500-$4000 per year. Do not openly discuss "expediting fee", so you can play dumb if it's a setup. Lawyer just bundles that fee into his own.

Pretending to be a volunteer for fake charity or religious organization is another method, but inadvisable, since the reason it's cheaper is you are cutting the government out of business license fee and taxes on profits, so now government has less reason to be tolerant. Also, there's no way to play dumb about the fact that you are not actually volunteering.

[Neo]

I've never been to Ukraine. However, I did get a one year visa to a western EU country, which cost me around $50. Thousands of dollars for one year sounds way too costly.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I've never been to Ukraine. However, I did get a one year visa to a western EU country, which cost me around $50. Thousands of dollars for one year sounds way too costly.

Again, I can't understand why you guys can't simply use Google to get these answers instead of relying on misinformation from this forum. The prevailing costs of the permanent resident application service is about the equivalent of $250.

https://evrovektor.com/en/article/Poluc ... -v-Ukraine

If guys are not resourceful enough to research this type of information for yourselves, you simply do not at all belong abroad. Stay where you are.....

[Neo]

I've never been to Ukraine. However, I did get a one year visa to a western EU country, which cost me around $50. Thousands of dollars for one year sounds way too costly.

Again, I can't understand why you guys can't simply use Google to get these answers instead of relying on misinformation from this forum. The prevailing costs of the permanent resident application service is about the equivalent of $250.

https://evrovektor.com/en/article/Poluc ... -v-Ukraine

If guys are not resourceful enough to research this type of information for yourselves, you simply do not at all belong abroad. Stay where you are.....

TBH, I wasn't exactly planning on going to Ukraine just yet. As I said, I still like some western places. Going to Ukraine is only an idea, but not one that's at the top of my list. I was just wondering where Frank got his information.

[Shemp]

I've never been to Ukraine. However, I did get a one year visa to a western EU country, which cost me around $50. Thousands of dollars for one year sounds way too costly.

What country? What was justification for granting you this visa? If it was as easy as just filling in some forms and plunking down $50, millions of people would be doing this to get around Schengen 90/180 rule.

Again, I can't understand why you guys can't simply use Google to get these answers instead of relying on misinformation from this forum. The prevailing costs of the permanent resident application service is about the equivalent of $250.

https://evrovektor.com/en/article/Poluc ... -v-Ukraine

If guys are not resourceful enough to research this type of information for yourselves, you simply do not at all belong abroad. Stay where you are.....

Have you actually gotten residency in Ukraine? Have you actually used that company? I was talking to a native Russian speaker the other day (born in Russia, but abandoned Russian citizenship for US in 1990's), who has been traveling regularly to Ukraine for 20 years. So hardly a beginner. He had to pay like $1000 for the fake volunteer method of getting temporary residency.

There is no easy way to get permanent residency without marriage. Ladislav, who used to post here, got permanent residency and citizenship because he was born in Ukraine and speaks both Russian and Ukrainian, but even Ladislav had to pay like $3000 to expedite the process.

There are, of course, cheap and legal methods I didn't mention. You could genuinely volunteer, or genuinely attend university on Ukraine, or get a genuine job at a real business in Ukraine (such as English teacher), but if you use these methods honestly, you have to do real work in Ukraine.

I get my information mostly by talking on various forums to people who actually have gotten temporary residency in Ukraine, using the fake business method. Temporary just means you have to renew each year. You can actually stay indefinitely if you keep the business going, meaning annual business fee and annual taxes. Cost might be less than $2500 after first year.

Currently, I only want an extra 10 days beyond the 90 days I get visa free in Ukraine, so not worth it for me to spend much time or money. Simpler to just hang out in some other country those 10 days. Eventually I will want a year round multiple entry visa or residency permit.

[Shemp]

As I noted above, there is no easy way to get permanent residency for most people other than by marriage. Note that I don't consider investing $100K "easy", but if money is no problem, then yes, that's another way. The other ways are listed in that website CE linked to, and are not applicable to most of us (we weren't born in Ukraine, etc).

So temporary residence is what you want. And the price listed is only about $130, but I can assure you, that is not the full price, because there will be all sorts of additional fees. In particular, if you want to create your own fake business so you can how yourself as an employee, that is a big cost. It also costs to register your address. They list a price of about $220 for doing that in Kyiv for a year, less in Odessa. Then you need to get a Tax ID. Easy enough if you can read/write Ukrainian and waste a day standing in line. Otherwise, more money.

One thing I will concede is that the $2500-$4000 number might be inflated because people paying that didn't shop around enough. Maybe they were rich and in a hurry. But I guarantee $250 is too low.

Anyway, I agree that HA is not the place to get info, especially when you have someone ignorant like CE putting on airs that he knows what he is talking about when he clearly doesn't. A better source is Facebook Expats in Kyiv group. I belong to this group, so items show up on my feed, but I don't actively participate in it. The group regularly has visa and residency questions. Needless to say (at least needless to say for people like me with brains in their head, for you other morons not so needless) no one can talk openly there about "fake business" and bribes (aka "expediting fees") because Facebook uses real names.

I'll let that ignoramus CE have the last word because my time is too valuable to waste discussing this matter further.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

As I noted above, there is no easy way to get permanent residency for most people other than by marriage. Note that I don't consider investing $100K "easy", but if money is no problem, then yes, that's another way. The other ways are listed in that website CE linked to, and are not applicable to most of us (we weren't born in Ukraine, etc).

So temporary residence is what you want. And the price listed is only about $130, but I can assure you, that is not the full price, because there will be all sorts of additional fees. In particular, if you want to create your own fake business so you can how yourself as an employee, that is a big cost. It also costs to register your address. They list a price of about $220 for doing that in Kyiv for a year, less in Odessa. Then you need to get a Tax ID. Easy enough if you can read/write Ukrainian and waste a day standing in line. Otherwise, more money.

One thing I will concede is that the $2500-$4000 number might be inflated because people paying that didn't shop around enough. Maybe they were rich and in a hurry. But I guarantee $250 is too low.

Anyway, I agree that HA is not the place to get info, especially when you have someone ignorant like CE putting on airs that he knows what he is talking about when he clearly doesn't. A better source is Facebook Expats in Kyiv group. I belong to this group, so items show up on my feed, but I don't actively participate in it. The group regularly has visa and residency questions. Needless to say (at least needless to say for people like me with brains in their head, for you other morons not so needless) no one can talk openly there about "fake business" and bribes (aka "expediting fees") because Facebook uses real names.

I'll let that ignoramus CE have the last word because my time is too valuable to waste discussing this matter further.

Not sure why you reacted so acerbically Frank, but I am simply trying to get people to do their own research instead of relying on expat forums for such information. By the way, there is another firm that charges about $375: https://justicon.ua/en/service/vid-na-p ... e_standart

In my experience, expats tend to avail themselves of "expat tips" without going the extra mile and saving themselves thousands of dollars in extra expenses. I have legal residence elsewhere in the region and $250 to $300 is the price range I pay for advice, document preparation, and the application process. If I ever go for permanent residence in Ukraine, I will be paying just that amount despite the prevailing "expats tips" which are by definition very limited in nature.

One thing that I have learned over 2 decades of international travel is that expat information is quite a bit different (and less reliable) than local advice. Expats will often veer you into overpriced services that cater to Westerners, and locals will veer you into reputable and respected services that are but a fraction of the cost. That is the main point of this thread. However, some people get peace of mind by paying $4000 for something that could have been $300. Included in the extra costs are marketing fees, top dollar office rents, expensive employees, and sometimes bribery fees that are passed on to contacts. But for bare-bones, basic application preparation and filing, I will generally opt for a small operation that will likely appreciate my patronage far more than a bigger, more expensive law firm.

[Shemp]

CE: did you even read that new website you linked to? They list the ways to get permanent residency. None of them apply to you, other than investing $100K. If you disagree, then tell me exactly which criterion you meet to be eligible for permanent residency.

I glanced at the Facebook group after posting previously and noticed some offers for temporary residence via fake business for $1500 for 3 years, or $500/year, but there are always extra costs they don't mention, so final cost will be somewhat higher. BTW fake business is a great idea of you actually want to work for another company, because now your work permit is through your company, so you are not beholden to the other company for residency. To work for the other company, your fake company simply contracts with the other company to provide services provided by you.

My original $2500-$4000 estate was from memory, since I don't keep up with pricing details, just the big picture of what can be done and how. Probably competition among lawyers has driven costs down a lot in the past few years.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

CE: did you even read that new website you linked to? They list the ways to get permanent residency. None of them apply to you, other than investing $100K. If you disagree, then tell me exactly which criterion you meet to be eligible for permanent residency.

I glanced at the Facebook group after posting previously and noticed some offers for temporary residence via fake business for $1500 for 3 years, or $500/year, but there are always extra costs they don't mention, so final cost will be somewhat higher. BTW fake business is a great idea of you actually want to work for another company, because now your work permit is through your company, so you are not beholden to the other company for residency. To work for the other company, your fake company simply contracts with the other company to provide services provided by you.

My original $2500-$4000 estate was from memory, since I don't keep up with pricing details, just the big picture of what can be done and how. Probably competition among lawyers has driven costs down a lot in the past few years.

The investment visa is precisely what I have used successfully before and that is what I would consider as a first option. However, I could very likely qualify with special subject matter expertise or take up the personal care of a friend's sibling or parent to go those particular routes also.

But again, the investment visa works best for those of us who opt not to work anymore. Perhaps Ukraine will adopt a retirement visa provision in the future. That happens to be my second favorite residency means although only countries with which I have no interest offer it at present.

[Shemp]

Well, you should have said that initially. To most people, investing $100K in Ukraine is too risky. If cost can be kept to under $2k/year for the fake business (and especially under $1k), then it's a better deal than the $100k investment for anyone who plans to live less than 50 more years, unless you actually plan for that investment to succeed and are certain about making Ukraine a homebase.

Very unlikely that you will qualify for special expertise or caring for elders criteria. Marriage, yes, but I already mentioned that is the only way most people can get permanent residency.