10 Reasons Why Taiwan Sucks For Social Life, Dating and Fun

[Winston]

Hi all,
A Taiwanese American girl I've been talking to told me that she agreed with all my observations about Taiwan that I posted on the forum. She wanted me to add some observations from her to this thread. At first, I thought this person was a guy, but when I called her on the phone, it turned out to be a girl. Funny. Anyway, here are her comments that she wanted to add here:

Sure, you can reply. I'm not a forum poster; I just wanted to talk to you
through email since it is very lonely and miserable here. I'd say that
sociability would refer to yellows being less friendly compared to other
races. I'm a yellow and I grew up in the Bay area as well, but I live in
Taiwan for the fact that: 1 my mom didn't tell me 1) Taiwan is a very
strict and closed society 2) I really did want to believe that Taiwan
isn't a nightmare to live in. Yeah you can post my emails anonymously. It
would be a good idea if you could visit more countries and do some more
comparing and contrasting.

I had answer your questions before, but I will answer again.

I said I'm here because my parents weren't willing or able to let me live
somewhere more fortunate--they said they can't adjust to living in a
different society or get a work permit into another country. They own
their own business, and their income is unstable and they speak English
with thick accent. I myself have never been outside North America and East
& Southeast Asia.

I didn't like living in the Bay Area and I have no desire to return there.
I do miss living in the U.S. though.

I found your articles through worldsexguide.com/forum in 2010--I saw your
article on Taiwan posted and searched the source of the article and I
found your website. I like to read your articles and your forum posts,
because they echo with my self pity.

I do live in Taipei, and I'm willing to reveal my phone number, but I
can't have a long conversation because talking on the phone is expensive.

I think your 7 points are accurate--however, I feel you should mention a
few points:

1) Discrimination in Taiwan is very strong against ABCs and foreigners in
general. People who speak Chinese with an accent will be constantly
asked--
"你是哪裡人?" (Where do you come from?) or
"你不是台灣人?" (You're not Taiwanese,
are you?). People will always make a big issue about the fact you didn't
live there all your life--they will call you names like American (in a
condescending tone of voice) or call you America ( also to ridicule you).
People will sometimes speak back in English because they feel you aren't
competent enough to talk to them in Chinese because of an accent. You will
never be complimented for taking the time and effort to learn Chinese.

Hundreds of thousands of Southeast Asian workers live here and they are
treated like slaves--physically abused, underpaid, overworked; many women
from China come here to work or be married to Taiwanese husbands and even
they will be discriminated against for speaking Chinese with an accent or
denied jobs just for being from the Mainland. Many people will act and
treat you like you are below them because you are not truly Taiwanese.
Even if you get Taiwan ID, you are never Taiwanese to 99% of Taiwanese
because you didn't live there all your life.

2) One point you should mention is many White men who come or live here
think every Yellow woman is some kind of easy lay or submissive geisha
should be in for a rude awakening, as you have stressed in your 7 points.
I think you should try to think of the criticisms for the men. I went to
university here and the white men who come as foreign exchange students--I
always see most of them alone or hanging out with other foreign exchange
students. Taiwanese society is just too hard to fit in and ever fully
adjust to.

3) People overreact to the littlest of things--it's especially bad when
you have to rent a house because people will complain behind your back
your movements are too loud, you shower too late, etc. They will never say
to your face they have a problem with you--they will always tell the
landlord.

4)The phrase "想太多" (think too much) is regularly used
when you have some concerns (like being made fun of for being an ABC) or
when you think about things from a different angle. I feel it reflects the
simple and narrow-minded nature of Taiwanese--they try to avoid more
complex subjects.

I don't get why she gets so discriminated against for not growing up in Taiwan. Are girls treated differently? Usually, I just get ignored or people will be all business and proper with me, or they will be ashamed and bashful that they can't speak English with me. But I've never experienced prejudice against me for being Americanized.

It's interesting that she said above regarding the foreign white exchange students in Taiwan:

"I went to university here and the white men who come as foreign exchange students--I
always see most of them alone or hanging out with other foreign exchange
students. Taiwanese society is just too hard to fit in and ever fully
adjust to."

That's very true and concurs with my observation as well. Most foreigners I see in Taiwan only hang out with other foreigners, or with Westernized Asians/Taiwanese sometimes. But not with local mainstream typical Taiwanese. No way. So you gotta wonder, what's the point of coming to a foreign country if you can only befriend or connect with other foreigners?

Further, I don't understand why any foreigner comes to Taiwan. If I were a foreigner who wanted to study Chinese culture, I'd go to China. I don't see why I would want to go to Taiwan.

For some reason though, Rock prefers to ignore all this and point out exceptions instead. It's as if he is being paid to defend Taiwan, as though it were "political" for him to do so. lol. Or else he has confirmation bias and only sees what he wants to see, ignoring and filtering out all contrary data. Very strange.

[Falcon]

You missed my favorite group, young Taiwan Han women who only attended a top or not so top uni in Taiwan and then went on to work in Taipei.

That's Type / Group #2, the urban Taiwanese and Chinese youths.

My tenant Monkro told me that any Taiwan girl who sets foot in USA for even 1 day becomes contaminated as a wife prospect as far as he's concerned. While I think that's extreme, I see the merit in eliminating anyone from your radar screen who has lived in USA for significant amount of time.

What Monkro said is not true, since most Chinese immigrant students tend to stick with other Chinese immigrant students, and interact very little with anyone else due to language and cultural barriers. Many would still be almost completely un-Americanized even after spending several (3-5) years studying in the US.

From my experience, how old they were when they came to the US is even more important than how much time they had spent in the US. If they had come before high school, they would easily become Americanized. If they had come during the college years, they often don't become Americanized.

From my perspective, there is a gap you need to fill-in between Group 2 and Group 3.

In many ways, Group 3 resembles rural Latinas - more down-to-earth, generally chubbier, no "princess attitudes." Since I'm quite familiar with rural Latinas and absolutely love many of them, I found that I could easily connect with the rural ethnic minority Chinese women (Group 3).

For you guys (Rock, Xiongmao, Monkro), the problem for you might be getting used to Group 3 (rural), since you're far more used to Group 2 (urban). It's vice versa for me. I felt quite "stifled" in Guangzhou, and I thought that all the sophisticated, fashionable women there definitely weren't of my type. Honestly, to me Guangzhou felt a lot like Taipei. I would have gone back to rural southwestern China in a heartbeat.

If Winston doesn't like Taipei, I'm not sure if he'll like Guangzhou, Shenzhen, or Shanghai. The locals there are getting a lot more materialistic and snobbier these days.

[momopi]

My tenant Monkro told me that any Taiwan girl who sets foot in USA for even 1 day becomes contaminated as a wife prospect as far as he's concerned. While I think that's extreme, I see the merit in eliminating anyone from your radar screen who has lived in USA for significant amount of time.

I have 2 female Taiwanese-American cousins who are currently engaged to Taiwanese men in Taiwan. One is 1.5 gen and the other is 2.0 gen. The 1.5 gen cousin is getting married this year to her fiance in Kaoshiung. In both cases, the girls went to TW to work in internships after college in US and hooked up with guys there.

Besides the obvious attraction factors, I'd also point out that in both cases, the fiance's family is financially well-off (as in, "rich"), and my cousins are US citizens. (cough)

[Rock]

You missed my favorite group, young Taiwan Han women who only attended a top or not so top uni in Taiwan and then went on to work in Taipei.

That's Type / Group #2, the urban Taiwanese and Chinese youths.

My tenant Monkro told me that any Taiwan girl who sets foot in USA for even 1 day becomes contaminated as a wife prospect as far as he's concerned. While I think that's extreme, I see the merit in eliminating anyone from your radar screen who has lived in USA for significant amount of time.

What Monkro said is not true, since most Chinese immigrant students tend to stick with other Chinese immigrant students, and interact very little with anyone else due to language and cultural barriers. Many would still be almost completely un-Americanized even after spending several (3-5) years studying in the US.

From my experience, how old they were when they came to the US is even more important than how much time they had spent in the US. If they had come before high school, they would easily become Americanized. If they had come during the college years, they often don't become Americanized.

From my perspective, there is a gap you need to fill-in between Group 2 and Group 3.

In many ways, Group 3 resembles rural Latinas - more down-to-earth, generally chubbier, no "princess attitudes." Since I'm quite familiar with rural Latinas and absolutely love many of them, I found that I could easily connect with the rural ethnic minority Chinese women (Group 3).

For you guys (Rock, Xiongmao, Monkro), the problem for you might be getting used to Group 3 (rural), since you're far more used to Group 2 (urban). It's vice versa for me. I felt quite "stifled" in Guangzhou, and I thought that all the sophisticated, fashionable women there definitely weren't of my type. Honestly, to me Guangzhou felt a lot like Taipei. I would have gone back to rural southwestern China in a heartbeat.

If Winston doesn't like Taipei, I'm not sure if he'll like Guangzhou, Shenzhen, or Shanghai. The locals there are getting a lot more materialistic and snobbier these days.

1. Monkro's views on USA's influence on women are extreme and are his POV. If he ever marries in Taiwan, I don't think he will allow his wife to ever visit the States.

2. I would be cool with Group 3 in that they are down-to-earth and all. But in my experience, Asians in this group very rarely fit my physical specs whereas urban Asians often do. OTH, there are certain places in Caribbean and LatAm which seem to have those types who do fit my physical specs.

3. While I have very little direct experience with this crop of young urban mainlanders, I suspect there is a distinct difference between them and their counterparts in Taipei. Children in Taipei tend to be raised differently than in China. They are less spoiled and have values more in line with our concept of middle class. Now when I prop-up the Taiwanese, my ex will tend to disagree with me and complain about how the young generation has become, blah blah. But it's all relative. She also thinks Taiwan can be dangerous too, lol. OTH, my good friend who has lived for years as a foreign professional in Shanghai and lived before in Taiwan strongly agrees with me on this point. When he visits Taipei, he quickly notices a difference in class and look and prefers what he sees in Taipei. And he lives and works in a central area in Shanghai, not out in the factory zones.

[keepingitreal]

Celery,
I know what you're talking about. Like I said, it's hard for me to travel with peace of mind when I have things to get done from two years ago.

Momopi,
You said that you lost a girlfriend once because you refused to move to Taipei because you couldn't handle the pollution there. Come on now. There must be more to it than that. That sounds like a convenient excuse. Why don't you fit in there? lol

Even I have no problem with pollution there. It isn't that bad, and you are a tall strong guy.

Hey everyone,
Check out this video of me and Rock watching girls walk by in the street below from our hotel in Taichung, Taiwan. If you want to know what Rock sounds like, you can hear his voice here. Don't the people below look so open and approachable? Don't they look so aware and friendly and easy to make eye contact with? lol. Don't they look so stiff, like cold uptight soulless zombies? lol



Vimeo version:
https://vimeo.com/56740911

A lotta legs showing huh? East Asian females have a weird obsession of showing off their legs. So much thigh meat, too bad no one can enjoy them. They're what I called jack off materials.

As for you, Winston. You just need to pack your shit and move and stop this whole stupid observation game shit, because you know it damn well that no matter how accurate your observation might be, you ain't doing a damn thing about it. It's beyond your ability to change, so just move on. I'd do that if I were you.

[Intolerant]

In general, Taiwan is only good for visiting the street vendors and trying out all kinds of street food and stuff.

[Winston]

Dear all,
I just thought of two NEW reasons why Taiwan sucks for social life, dating and mental health. Let me elaborate.

1. First, Rock has often asked me this question before: "In the Philippines, middle class girls and families also ignore us and they do not like meeting foreigners either. Same as Taiwan. So what's the difference? Why can't you be as happy in Taiwan as in the Philippines since in both, middle class people ignore us?" That's a good question. It was hard for me to answer it before, because my reasons couldn't be put into words easily. But after some contemplation, I think I can explain it a little better now.

Let me give an example of an important difference. You see, I don't mind if girls reject me from cold approach, as long as there's no awkward feeling about it. For example, in Warsaw, Poland, the girls are also very reserved. But they don't act cliquish and catty and immature and high schoolish and narrow minded like Taiwanese girls do. No, they are quite mature, down to earth, confident, and non-paranoid - a lot more normal in other words. If I approach them, they simply politely reject me, or they will talk to me a while but will not give me their number. Yet there's no feeling of awkwardness. It doesn't make me feel like a creep who is doing something wrong or violating some social rule when I cold approach girls in Warsaw. But in Taiwan there is a strong feeling of awkwardness in almost everything I do. Like I am not allowed to be myself. Not just about flirting or cold approach. And yes when I flirt or cold approach in Taiwan it feels awkward and wrong and inappropriate, like I am doing something wrong or breaking some social rule. If I was white, the social rules wouldn't apply to me as much, but if you're Asian they do. It's similar to America where if you try to cold approach it also feels awkward and inappropriate and creepy. Yes girls will even report you to security or police for doing that, and claim that you are "harassing them".

So you see, that's the MAIN difference. It's not about being able to get dates. It's the fact that even TRYING to get dates or cold approaching in Taiwan simply feels wrong, creepy and inappropriate, just like it does in the US. It has nothing to do with confidence. You can be the most confident guy in the world. The girls will still see cold approach or flirtation as creepy and inappropriate and out of bounds. Because that is their culture. In Taiwan, strangers do not even shake hands. Only close friends or close relatives do. So flirtation with strangers is a definite no no. It's a very prudish culture for sure.

So you see, I don't mind not being able to get dates as long as the act of trying to does NOT feel awkward or inappropriate or creepy. That's my main point. Do you see what I mean? I hate it most when I am not even allowed to try or not allowed to be myself. It's the awkward creepy vibe that's the worst thing, because it basically tells me that I'm not even able to be myself. You see what I mean? Even in Philippines and Russia many girls you approach will politely reject you, but it never makes you feel like a creep or inappropriate. It just feels like part of the game, like when your character dies in a video game, and you simply just restart the game and try again, which is no big deal and feels normal. You see, that's the key difference between being rejected overseas vs at home in the US or Taiwan. At least overseas you are ALLOWED to try and you are still always IN THE GAME, no matter how many girls reject you, whereas back home you are not even allowed to try lest you be seen as a creep and pervert. You see what I mean? That's the fundamental difference, and what matters most to me.

I'm sure @Falcon and @zboy1 would agree and understand what I mean. They felt the same way about Taiwan too.

2. Secondly, I noticed that even when you do go to a party, social gathering, or meetup in Taiwan, it still feels very flat and bland and unsatisfying. Because everyone there will be all too normal and prim and proper, in the sense of being totally square, boring, non-controversial, bland, etc. With no unique personality or eccentricity. Because that's Taiwan culture - everyone tries to be as "normal and innocent and uncontroversial" as possible. It's like a competition to see who is the most square and bland and boring. Very weird. But that's the sense I get. No one likes uniqueness in Taiwan groups. If you are a misfit, eccentric, nonconformist, or freethinker, you will be seen as weird and maybe even creepy. They will dislike you for no apparent reason because you give off a different vibe than others. And of course, since orientals are non-confrontational, no one will be hostile to you about it. They will simply ignore you, snub you, and not invite you to the next party. That's the oriental way of rejecting people. And of course, they will talk shit behind your back.

Trust me. I know because I've experienced this a number of times, and been the victim of such cold rejection and ostracization before, for no apparent reason at all. You are made to feel disdained, like there is something wrong with you, for no good reason at all, in a passive subtle manner. This is a totally conformist, narrow, bland, square culture where uniqueness or eccentricity are not appreciated or liked, but seen in a negative light. If you are unique or eccentric or a freethinking liberated mind, you will be seen as a "loser" that everyone wants to avoid, and vilified too. Not because you did anything wrong or bad, but because they just like to detest and disdain people like you because you're different, and it's in their catty, bratty, narrow minded, negative nature to do so. It's simply in their nature to be that way. And it's a very high schoolish attitude for sure. Not the kind of thing that any freespirit or freethinker or down to earth person with an old soul would vibe with.

Even with the foreigners in Taiwan, the longer they stay there, the more Taiwanese they begin to act, and so they too become like what I describe. It's sad to see white people lose their individuality and uniqueness and personality to become as bland, square and sterile as Taiwanese are. It's like they become infected with the "Taiwan virus". They also become very soft spoken with no confidence. You definitely aren't allowed to be outspoken in Taiwan. That's a no no.

So you see, even if you do meet people or try to socialize in Taiwan with others, or go to social gatherings, it still feels very unsatisfying and bland, like something is missing. People are just too square and sterile and try too hard to be "normal". It doesn't feel free or natural. Everything feels highly restricted and strict, like a traditional Catholic boarding school or monastery, but with a polite smile of course. That's Taiwan social life for you. It's safe and predictable and sterile, but not much fun like in other countries.

And for me, it's very awkward, because I never feel like I can be myself without looking like a creep or inappropriate. And that is definitely not good for one's self-esteem or mental health. There are others that feel this way too I'm sure, both in Taiwan and America, but they just cannot find the words to express it, until they read my posts or articles, then they say that I've nailed it and spoken what they feel and sense too.