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So I will have summer vacation from mid-May to August and I plan to travel to China starting next month, and I plan to stay there for maybe 2 weeks - 1 month.
Is this a good plan?

luoldeng9 wrote:So I will have summer vacation from mid-May to August and I plan to travel to China starting next month, and I plan to stay there for maybe 2 weeks - 1 month. Based on the posts in this forum, people are saying China is a great place to meet girls and find a gf due to all the ugly Chinese guys and the greater F:M ratio in some cities. I am also interested in checking out China to see if I want to live there in the future, since I want out of the US. However, I am NOT interested in the p4p scene at all. I'm currently in the US, so I have to apply for the tourist visa soon and thus print out my itinerary ASAP.

Afterwards, I also plan to travel to Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Thailand. I'm not sure if I'll also go to the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, South America. But since China requires the visa, I'll just go there first.


I'll also be traveling alone and I know very little Mandarin (completed the first 10 parts of Pimsleur's Mandarin course) and no Cantonese

In China, I'm sure I'd like to see Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and Chengdu. I'd also like to see northern China, so I'm thinking about seeing Yanji (I'm curious to check it out since I'm Korean. However, I speak very little Korean), Dalian, and Changchun. If I have time, I'll see Guangxi (I'd like to check out the rural areas if I have time), Beijing, Chongqing, Hangzhou, and Suzhou.

Any ideas on which of these places above I should avoid due to my poor Mandarin skills? In what order should I visit the above areas to save the most money? I was thinking about maybe starting out in northern China, then traveling to Chengdu (perhaps by train?), then going to Guanzhou (by train?) and the nearby cities. Afterwards, I would go to Taiwan, HK, etc. Is this a good plan?

Theres 55 languages in China so the people don't understand each other half the time either. If you have to buy train tickets at a machine, the local people can help you buy it since its written in Chinese you won't be able to read it. Train stations are good place to find other foreigners in case you get lost and need directions too. Its generally hard to make friends in China so couch surfing or hostels might be a good option for you.

If your wanting to date women you should go online before your trip and see if you can find some that will meet you or you can hook up with KTV girls(pros) once you get there. If you see some really hot chicks standing at the doorway of a business and they stare at you as you walk by, it will be a brothel for sure. I don't know what they charge.

The friendliest people live in northern China, they also have the best food and a dry, cool, climate which is nice in the summer. Dalian, Kunming and Qingdao are the nicest cities. The forest north of Chengdu has some of the best scenery, such as Panda Lake.

Theres also tons of Filipinos in Hong Kong you can hang with if your looking for friends.

Hope this helps.

Hi Luoldeng,

Great decision to visit China. If you like Chinese girls then there’s no better place to be, avoid overseas Chinese girls (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc.)
To correct Taco’s point, there aren’t 55 languages in China, more like 55 dialects, some of which do overlap. In any case Chinese all over China are able to speak Mandarin, for the most part much much better than any western foreigner can aspire to. I don’t know how good your Mandarin is right now but if you keep working on it it’ll be good enough for you to get by anywhere in China. Also although pronunciations differ across the different dialects, the written words are the same. So if you can read Chinese, you can read the signs and menus anywhere in China, or at least get the gist of it depending on your level.

I don’t think it’s fair or true to say that Chinese guys are ugly. I’m not gay but to be objective I think you will find that if you travel around China quite a bit you’ll see quite a lot of guys (and girls for that matter) with sharper, more defined facial features than the average Chinese American who tends to come predominantly from Guangzhou province (in the South) where facial features are generally not as sharp.

Yes relative wealth does come into the picture. Due to overpopulation plus government and corporate takeover of agricultural land, life in the country-sides is unfortunately becoming increasingly becoming less viable for the average Chinese and the trend now is to move into the cities. About 700 million of China’s 1.38 billion population are considered to be of rural origins although this number is decreasing rapidly as they flock to the cities.

While not all the guys from rural areas move to the cities, a very high percentage of the women do. So just imagine that you have all the women in China (of both rural and urban origins) chasing primarily after men of urban origins (in the hope of marrying up or at least someone of equal socio-economic status) and all these women being pressured to get married before 30. Contrary to popular belief, the stats are actually far more in mens’ favor in the cities, as long as you’re open to getting into relationships with girls from rural origins, which by the way often make even better and more loyal wives.

The average income in many average Chinese cities is just 300 to 400 dollars a month. Even if you were to go into China as an English teacher, your income would likely be 3.5 to 5 times of that, and that buys you a lot more in China than in developed countries due to the much lower cost of living. This immediately gives you an economic advantage in China that you would not have in other much more expensive and wealthier (on a per capita basis) Asian countries in particular Japan, Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong where English teachers make only very average incomes and are considered nobodies. You would also face a much higher cost of living and encounter women who are beautiful but materialistic, self-entitled and self-centered and where there is probably a lot more western style hypergamy going on.

But let’s not just look at things from an economic relativist standpoint. That competitive mindset is so falling into the hands of the system that oppresses us. China is a better place to look for a girl not just because of your relative economic advantage in China, but because Chinese girls in general are much better human beings, period. Because there are many Chinese girls who are loyal, kind, relatively innocent, with strong family values and giving, you see many Chinese girls sticking with their boyfriends/husbands for the long term with lower infidelity rates and lower cases of women staying single because they’re waiting for a multi-millionaire Tom Cruise.

I mean if there are less cases of hypergamy going on – hypergamy being where a very small % of men lay 90% of the girls who are worth laying, then there’s more likely to be enough girls for every, or at least every male who’s of urban status in China. Yes a bit of money helps, but not because these girls want to parade themselves in luxury, but merely because they want to survive in the cities, and that isn’t as hard to achieve in China for a male from a developed country. I think you’ll find that so many of the girls there are so down to earth that money only helps to a certain, relatively basic point, beyond that it’ll only help with the small percentage of high maintenance materialistic bitches who you really don’t need in China given the high percentage of good quality women. Despite the much lower average income in China, the average Chinese male in China is certainly much better off than the average American male in America simply because there are so many more high quality women, both on the outside and inside, to choose from.

Unless you’re looking for p4p or perhaps a fling, I suggest you completely stay clear of the Karaoke working girls. Yes there are many good looking girls among them but the kinds of girls who become working girls in China tend to be the worst group in terms of personalities. They’re cunning, manipulative, self-centered and know how to use their looks to get what they want out of you. Stay clear of these girls if you’re looking for a serious girlfriend. Why would you date these girls when the vast majority of Chinese girls out there are relative angels by comparison?

China’s great all over although I recommend staying clear of Shanghai and Shenzhen if only because they’re the 2 most developed and commercialized cities in China where the women are generally more materialistic, selfish and less innocent than in other parts. Chengdu, Changsha, Chongqing, Wuhan, Xi-An, Yunnan (check out Dali and Lijiang), Hangzhou, Nanchang, Fuzhou and Xiamen are all great places to visit or live, and the list goes on.

Definitely work on improving your Chinese as time goes by though because the best girls in China often don’t speak that much English. Those who do tend to be more westernized, although many college educated girls do at least speak basic English. Those in the service industry tend to barely speak any English at all. Having better Chinese just gives you so much more options. It’ll also be good if you have any contacts in China that can show you around and introduce you to people. Some cities are surprisingly also personal enough that they even have websites for foreigners to plan meet-ups, gatherings, parties, etc. For example check out http://verynanchang.com/. The downside to these websites of course is that they tend to be foreigner-dominated, although it’s a decent base to start getting to know people and being introduced to Chinese girls considering you’re starting from nothing.

I’ll also be paying a visit to China for a couple of weeks next month (Hangzhou, Suzhou and Nanchang) but I’ll be going with my girlfriend. Let me know if you need any more advice.

Btw, we have a Travel Q&A thread about China here:

viewtopic.php?t=12092

You can find such threads in the "FAQ Topics" link above.

Thanks for the replies. So I'm thinking about spending my time in Chengdu and Chongqing, along with Changsha, Wuhan, Nanchang. Then, if I have time, I'd like to see Guangzhou, Xiamen, Fuzhou. Sound like a good plan?

Unless you’re looking for p4p or perhaps a fling, I suggest you completely stay clear of the Karaoke working girls. Yes there are many good looking girls among them but the kinds of girls who become working girls in China tend to be the worst group in terms of personalities. They’re cunning, manipulative, self-centered and know how to use their looks to get what they want out of you. Stay clear of these girls if you’re looking for a serious girlfriend. Why would you date these girls when the vast majority of Chinese girls out there are relative angels by comparison?

I would consider a fling, but I won't consider p4p. I would like a girlfriend, but I'm not so sure about marriage. I almost certainly do NOT want children

China’s great all over although I recommend staying clear of Shanghai and Shenzhen if only because they’re the 2 most developed and commercialized cities in China where the women are generally more materialistic, selfish and less innocent than in other parts. Chengdu, Changsha, Chongqing, Wuhan, Xi-An, Yunnan (check out Dali and Lijiang), Hangzhou, Nanchang, Fuzhou and Xiamen are all great places to visit or live, and the list goes on.

I heard that the girls in Chengdu are the most beautiful, so perhaps they're very picky and selfish too? I will definitely avoid Shanghai, but I heard Shenzhen was good because of the good F:M ratio, which I'm not sure also occurs in cities like Chengdu. I didn't know the areas near Taiwan are good to live and find quality women. But I don't know if I can fit those cities in my schedule

It’ll also be good if you have any contacts in China that can show you around and introduce you to people.

Well, I have an acquaintance from school who's going back to Guangxi for the summer

ethan_sg wrote:Hi Luoldeng,

Great decision to visit China. If you like Chinese girls then there’s no better place to be, avoid overseas Chinese girls (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc.)

I agree. It's funny you should say that though, because Rock and Dragonboy in this forum both claim that every (or most) random schmuck/average joe can get casual sex/dates/romance/girlfriends in Taiwan, all except me. I find this hard to believe and am highly skeptical of this claim, for 8 logical reasons, which I've posted here:

viewtopic.php?p=75960#75960

What do you think?

Winston wrote:
I agree. It's funny you should say that though, because Rock and Dragonboy in this forum both claim that every (or most) random schmuck/average joe can get casual sex/dates/romance/girlfriends in Taiwan, all except me.

LOL Winston you are one funny dude

Learning Mandarin is next to useless, nobody will understand you because you won't speak with the local accent.

Reading is more valuable to be honest - make sure you can read the 100 most frequently occurring characters, this will help.

Travelling around China is difficult apart from airports which are really easy. The biggest problem is that wherever you want to go 10 million people with massive bags and 10 kids are trying to go there as well. And I don't know how you would buy train/bus tickets. Some hotels will buy them for you but I've not stayed at a hotel yet where the staff could speak decent English.

The best accessory to have in China is a Chinese gf!

So what about you Winston when are you finally going to China? I'm sure many people here are looking forward to hearing about your adventures over there.

Xiongmao I think you exaggerate the language issue in China. You can bet your last dollar that knowing how to speak Mandarin is very useful all over China, it has helped me and my foreigner friends so much in our travels around the country.

The differences in accents across the geographical regions aren't so great that they become incomprehensible, much like how most Americans from the south would surely understand most people from the midwest when they speak English, despite the differences in accents.

There are hundreds of millions of domestic migrants in China who are not living in their home province. For example within Beijing or Shanghai there are millions of Chinese people from all over China. Despite the different accents, they successfully communicate with each other everyday in Mandarin. If you speak a decent level of mandarin with reasonable tonal and pronunciation accuracy, they'll understand you alright.

Note that certain dialects such as the Sichuanese dialect sound a lot like Mandarin, with almost exactly the same pronunciations for most words, only that the tones are different. Some of these dialects may therefore sound to you like Mandarin, but are in fact not Mandarin. Yet these same people (be it Sichuanese or whichever province with a similar dialect) are able to switch to Mandarin (and therefore adjust their tones) seamlessly once they know they're talking to someone who's not from the same province. These dialects that sound a lot like Mandarin except for the tonal differences may therefore exaggerate and distort the perceived accentual differences among different provinces, when in fact they are just speaking their own dialect, which they can seamlessly switch to Mandarin from.

Of course if your Mandarin level is pretty bad and your pronunciations and tones completely off, then all bets are off on anyone in China understanding you much at all.

Hey Luoldeng,

Frankly speaking I think the idea that there is just one specific province in China that has the most beautiful women in the whole country is just hype and sensationalizing. When you're talking about millions and millions of people, the law of large numbers apply and it all averages out.

I think China is filled with beautiful women all over, really, and yes I definitely did see many beautiful women when I was in Chengdu. Yes some of the more beautiful women can be picky, selfish and materialistic but is definitely not at the same level of severity and prevalence as is the case with many beautiful women from developed Asian countries.

Because there are so many beautiful women in China and because humility is ingrained into the culture, many beautiful women there think of themselves as relatively plain.

In fact you'll see far more 'natural beauties' in China than in developed Asian countries, because the women tend to wear less make-up, some no make-up at all. But unlike many American women these women can afford to go without make up because they are naturally beautiful.

In fact often I find it's the case that girls who wear little to no make-up tend to be far more innocent and totally not sucked into the materialist-consumerist-fake-image preoccupation culture. They tend to be more real, down to earth and see little need to put on a fake mask. That's not to say that they are poorly groomed, they still have very nice feminine hairstyles and dress very decently, just nothing too showy, loud or plastic, and I like that because it just makes them look so much more feminine. Much rather than looking like unapproachable high-powered highly political, highly polished and masked corporate female types that you tend to see more in developed Asian countries.

The best thing about so many beautiful girls looking so real and down to earth with their simple unpretentious yet feminine appearances is that it then makes it so much more natural to approach them and get to know them. Interaction is just so much more authentic and the delightfully feminine qualities that many of these women have make it so natural for you to feel like you can be the man and leader in the relationship.

So by all means, when you're there, don't be afraid of approaching beautiful women, particularly the types that dress simply and don't put on much make-up, they tend to be most innocent types with amazing personalities to match their beautiful exteriors.

Nice to see you're going to Nanchang as well. I'll actually be there for about 5 days in a couple of weeks (with my girlfriend) visiting a very good American friend of mine who has been living there for 4 years now, loves it and knows Nanchang like the back of his palm. Let me know if you need any help, advice or anything.

There's actually a famous (in Nanchang, that is) hotel in Nanchang called the Inter-galactic Peace Hotel haha.

luoldeng9 wrote:Thanks for the replies. So I'm thinking about spending my time in Chengdu and Chongqing, along with Changsha, Wuhan, Nanchang. Then, if I have time, I'd like to see Guangzhou, Xiamen, Fuzhou. Sound like a good plan?

Unless you’re looking for p4p or perhaps a fling, I suggest you completely stay clear of the Karaoke working girls. Yes there are many good looking girls among them but the kinds of girls who become working girls in China tend to be the worst group in terms of personalities. They’re cunning, manipulative, self-centered and know how to use their looks to get what they want out of you. Stay clear of these girls if you’re looking for a serious girlfriend. Why would you date these girls when the vast majority of Chinese girls out there are relative angels by comparison?

I would consider a fling, but I won't consider p4p. I would like a girlfriend, but I'm not so sure about marriage. I almost certainly do NOT want children

China’s great all over although I recommend staying clear of Shanghai and Shenzhen if only because they’re the 2 most developed and commercialized cities in China where the women are generally more materialistic, selfish and less innocent than in other parts. Chengdu, Changsha, Chongqing, Wuhan, Xi-An, Yunnan (check out Dali and Lijiang), Hangzhou, Nanchang, Fuzhou and Xiamen are all great places to visit or live, and the list goes on.

I heard that the girls in Chengdu are the most beautiful, so perhaps they're very picky and selfish too? I will definitely avoid Shanghai, but I heard Shenzhen was good because of the good F:M ratio, which I'm not sure also occurs in cities like Chengdu. I didn't know the areas near Taiwan are good to live and find quality women. But I don't know if I can fit those cities in my schedule

It’ll also be good if you have any contacts in China that can show you around and introduce you to people.

Well, I have an acquaintance from school who's going back to Guangxi for the summer

I'm in Kaoshiung now, getting my driver's license for Taiwan, so I can go out and do things when my parents go back to America.

I noticed that there are a lot of tourists from mainland China here, esp at the night market. They seem very different than Taiwanese. They seem more crude, vulgar, act more low class, speak an ugly sounding Cantonese language, but at the same time, there is something about them that seemed cold blooded and ruthless. The last time I felt that way around people was when I was in Tijuana, Mexico. You got that feeling that anything goes and that you could be pickpocketed at any time, as though lawlessness was the norm. I can see why Taiwanese don't like them or their manners. Needless to say, they did seem to walk less defensively and therefore seemed more approachable. But they didn't seem to make any eye contact with strangers. Lots of girls had killer hot white long legs.

Is this how mainland Chinese usually are? If so, it must not feel very safe there, does it?

What's your take?

Also, is there more eye contact with strangers in China than in Taiwan?

"Is this how mainland Chinese usually are? If so, it must not feel very safe there, does it? "

Winston, your observations are YOUR observations.

They are not rational, intellectual, nor uniform; even though you obsess about being rational, neutral and intelligent.

IOW, 'Everywhere you go, there you are.'

Most others do not report the same things from Mainlanders.

China is insanely safe from personal crime. It's just a non-issue.

Sure, they all obsess about telling foreigners to be careful, but they have no basis for comparison.

Pickpockets? No more than in a major USA city.
Lawlessness? Anything goes?

Yeah, you are not seeing the world as it is.

Poor manners - absolutely.

But dangerous? Ah...no.

ethan_sg wrote:.....If you like Chinese girls then there’s no better place to be, avoid overseas Chinese girls (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc.)

.....I think you will find that if you travel around China quite a bit you’ll see quite a lot of guys (and girls for that matter) with sharper, more defined facial features than the average Chinese American who tends to come predominantly from Guangzhou province (in the South) where facial features are generally not as sharp.

Yes relative wealth does come into the picture. Due to overpopulation plus government and corporate takeover of agricultural land, life in the country-sides is unfortunately becoming increasingly becoming less viable for the average Chinese and the trend now is to move into the cities. About 700 million of China’s 1.38 billion population are considered to be of rural origins although this number is decreasing rapidly as they flock to the cities.

While not all the guys from rural areas move to the cities, a very high percentage of the women do. So just imagine that you have all the women in China (of both rural and urban origins) chasing primarily after men of urban origins (in the hope of marrying up or at least someone of equal socio-economic status) and all these women being pressured to get married before 30. Contrary to popular belief, the stats are actually far more in mens’ favor in the cities, as long as you’re open to getting into relationships with girls from rural origins, which by the way often make even better and more loyal wives.

The average income in many average Chinese cities is just 300 to 400 dollars a month. Even if you were to go into China as an English teacher, your income would likely be 3.5 to 5 times of that, and that buys you a lot more in China than in developed countries due to the much lower cost of living. This immediately gives you an economic advantage in China that you would not have in other much more expensive and wealthier (on a per capita basis) Asian countries in particular Japan, Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong where English teachers make only very average incomes and are considered nobodies. You would also face a much higher cost of living and encounter women who are beautiful but materialistic, self-entitled and self-centered and where there is probably a lot more western style hypergamy going on....

...China’s great all over although I recommend staying clear of Shanghai and Shenzhen if only because they’re the 2 most developed and commercialized cities in China where the women are generally more materialistic, selfish and less innocent than in other parts. Chengdu, Changsha, Chongqing, Wuhan, Xi-An, Yunnan (check out Dali and Lijiang), Hangzhou, Nanchang, Fuzhou and Xiamen are all great places to visit or live, and the list goes on. ....

Great breakdown, specifics really appreciated.

> China is insanely safe from personal crime. It's just a non-issue.

Not sure I'd agree with that. I keep my ear to the ground and a lot of stuff goes on in Guangzhou.

Having said that, when my date and I got on the wrong bus and ended up stranded in the worst part of town, nothing happened to us. Good job we weren't in Detroit!

As far as cities go, Shanghai was a big disappointment to me. If I was seeking women I'd go for the migrants/Cantonese of Guangdong Province (easy to find educated English speakers here) or for looks go to Changsha. I'd stay away from places like Chongqing or the really poor cities (can't think of any off hand but my expat friend out there told me stories of really terrible places).

ph visitor,
You are ignorant as usual. I was only giving my general impression. It's not qualified by any means. It was based on a few people here.

How come every Taiwanese here thinks China is dangerous? My relatives are warning me not to go. They say there is this terrible scam there where a hot girl approaches you, drugs your drink, and then when you wake up, you are in the bathtub with your kidneys removed.

Why does everyone here think that? What is that based on? How often does that happen?