Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Adama
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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gsjackson wrote:I'm right with davewe on this. I come from the American educated upper middle class, but I simply won't have anything to do with those people, who are a contemptible combination of braindead yet arrogant. Look at the monstrous zeitgeist they've promoted in the U.S. Any American woman I hooked up with would feel very out of place in that element. Hard to imagine the educated elite in the Philippines being much better, and to confine one's search for a suitable wife, which is largely a matter of luck, to a narrow class seems very 19th century.
Reminds me of one article I read one time, about this woman who had found a man who was only 5'8". She claimed to be in love with him, but she had always imagined marrying a man over 6'. So she actually entertained thoughts of dumping him over a few inches in height, despite everything else being perfect.

I wonder what she did in the end. It's unimaginable the way some people think.

Some people also don't really want a partner, and can't even admit it to themselves. Also reminds me of a dog chasing its own tail.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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I've probably said this somewhere before in these discussions with PD, but I fully support sticking to his standards for intelligence in a woman. A woman who is boring to talk to is worse than being alone. It's standards for physical appearance where I would compromise, which rapidly fades in importance once you get to know a woman, at least in my experience. However, I don't think he has to compromise here. Just make the business succeed, then arrange to take regular trips to Manila where he comes into contact with intelligent AND beautiful single filipina career women age 30 or so, who are unable to find a quality husband due combination of age (they missed the boat) and hypergamy issue (women must marry up to feel comfortable). I continue to believe PD would be top 10% or even higher in sexual market value to such women, provided his business is successful.

At one time I suggested looking in Tokyo/Singapore/etc, but that was only because PD said Manila was as provincial as the rest of the Philippines. Now that PD is backtracking and admits Manila is not totally provincial, that's the obvious place to look.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

Post by Lorenzo »

publicduende wrote:Someone told me that, with a girl like her, it's "mission accomplished" in the Philippines, and that I can't expect more.
Yep, someday you might look back and kick your nuts a bit more. Love grows, did you really give her a chance? For me she has to be truly attractive. I would have been too busy shagging that cute little thing to do all this head trip stuff. After that got tiring she would be learning her role in serving her master and future partner. If she responded well then you would have grown attached and had a great wife, not perfect, but a far cry better than back home.

The fact is...she was too young for you. You are not up for a typical young girl who can't possible be your intellectual equal and who will act her age. Add to that the simple mindedness and low education of women in Phils, no doubt you are beating your head against the wall. Guys like you should sort things out and get clarity before playing to the Phillippine dating pool. I can see why she felt hurt.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Lorenzo wrote:Love grows, did you really give her a chance?
A valid point which I've tried to bring across before, although to be fair, this particular one was described as having the sex appeal of a 10 year old leaving the dentist. I wouldn't have taken it further if I was in his position. Zero sex appeal equals end of the road IMO.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

Post by yick »

The problem PD has is not the women of the Philippines but the views of the people at the Rotary Club - he gives a shit for some reason about what they think.

Personally, I would wipe my backside with the membership card of the Davao Rotary Club and be happy but hey ho... that's bringing PD happiness
as they are all his friends.

What strikes me as weird - just a thought here - is that PD is amazed that his Rotary Club chums aren't introducing him to their female relatives and friends.

Would a singe Pakistani doctor in his forties get the introductions of fellow members of any country club he was a member in the UK?

Would he hell!

I mean, his friends in the club and fellow members might think he is a spiffing chap and a jolly good sort, but there is a difference in mingling for drinks and marrying their family members off to someone who isn't them.
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publicduende
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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retiredfrank wrote:I've probably said this somewhere before in these discussions with PD, but I fully support sticking to his standards for intelligence in a woman. A woman who is boring to talk to is worse than being alone. It's standards for physical appearance where I would compromise, which rapidly fades in importance once you get to know a woman, at least in my experience. However, I don't think he has to compromise here. Just make the business succeed, then arrange to take regular trips to Manila where he comes into contact with intelligent AND beautiful single filipina career women age 30 or so, who are unable to find a quality husband due combination of age (they missed the boat) and hypergamy issue (women must marry up to feel comfortable). I continue to believe PD would be top 10% or even higher in sexual market value to such women, provided his business is successful.

At one time I suggested looking in Tokyo/Singapore/etc, but that was only because PD said Manila was as provincial as the rest of the Philippines. Now that PD is backtracking and admits Manila is not totally provincial, that's the obvious place to look.
It frustrates and disappoints me to see that age is cutting me off from, say, the better 80% of the young, smart and pretty single Filipinas I would love to be able to approach.

The question then is, how I can possibly be noticed by the part of the remaining 20% who might take an interest in me and/or reciprocate my interest for them. I don't think my company succeeding would make an ocean of difference. I will never be Bill Gates and it might be several years before I can make so much as $200K a year from dividends, with the high costs and uncertain client pipeline of my line of business.

Hotties looking for the aphrodisiac combo of professional success + cash have plenty of rich men in Metro Manila and Cebu to look forward to. And that's even without counting the rich Korean, Japanese and Chinese who target the same territory looking for girlfriends, mistresses and the occasional wife.

I actually do take regular trips to Manila and come in contact with good looking and intelligent career women in their 30s. Last one just two weeks ago on my last trip: V, 32, very pretty face, a bit chubby but the right kind of chubby (yummy breasts, at least a D). She works at a major accountancy firm and in charge with one of the fintech groups I have been introduced to. I start talking with her avidly and find out she lived in London for a few months, seconded by her mother company. Great, something in common that spawns another good 15 minutes extra of great tongue-in-cheek conversation.

Until she has to go: her boyfriend has come pick her up. Fall from grace: I mumble something semi-sarcastic about whether I could pick her up too, in another moment. I will certainly see her again in the next few weeks and months and I doubt her love life will have changed significantly.

And it's always the same story...ALL the women who have any appreciable looks and brain value, in Manila like Milan, Turkey to Tanzania, Canberra to Cape Town, are inevitably taken, married up, engaged, involved, wrapped up.

One can only be so lucky to find himself in the right place at the right time, in that tiny 1 or 2 month time window between break-ups.

Believe me, as Rock said, Metro Manila is huge and there are a lot more dateable girls. And yet, the top of the crop, or even the middle of the crop, are too few to accommodate all the men, foreigners and locals alike, who, tired of jumping from horse to horse on the p***y merry-go-round, want to find a quality young woman to settle with.

To summarise: my age is against me, I am not that handsome and not that successful and wealthy (yet), even compared to other foreigners. Metro Manila has more opportunities than Davao but also a lot more foreigners who have less years on their passport, and/or an actual career or expat position in Makati or BGC, and/or are far more stud like than me. No chance in hell.

The only girls I managed to hook up with or date in Manila are the same poor girls from Mindanao who try their luck with a foreigner to escape the boredom or utter desperation of their toxic life routines. Only one was very decent, physically attractive (albeit with deformed hands), but killed my interest when she revealed me her toxic mix of religious fanaticism and the only career choice that I hate with all my guts: network marketing, or MLM to use a more appropriate acronym.
Last edited by publicduende on March 10th, 2017, 7:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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publicduende
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Zambales wrote:
Lorenzo wrote:Love grows, did you really give her a chance?
A valid point which I've tried to bring across before, although to be fair, this particular one was described as having the sex appeal of a 10 year old leaving the dentist. I wouldn't have taken it further if I was in his position. Zero sex appeal equals end of the road IMO.
Exactly - the physical attraction spark isn't there and the intellectual connection isn't there. And I still maintain she is one of the best ones I have ever met, who seem to genuinely want to be with me.
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publicduende
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Uy! Please don't bring the Rotary into this, it's got nothing to do with the people I see and their respective women. I refer to "my Rotary friends" to tell them apart from other groups of friends I go out with, I am not putting any label of royalty into the fact that they happen to belong to the same club and we use said club to meet and spend time together.

First, Rotary doesn't have a membership card. Second, Rotary does more good in a minute than what many of us could do in a lifetime. And I mean hundreds of charity projects all over the Philippines. The element that probably draws a lot of established Filipino families in it is the sense of recognition, of mutual-congratulatory celebration that pervades most of its acts and rituals, and the many social rituals where said familes can come together and, simply, perpetuate the strength of their social network.

Like I said many times before, I really don't care about my friends not introducing me to any members of their family for dating. It's understood that I am I and they are they. I am only bringing them into my discussion as a bunch of people who is telling me some veritable stuff about Filipino society. They get it, believe me: they're not young princelings locked away on top of their ivory towers. At least in Davao, you have to do business with normal people to be rich, and you need to be street-savvy and people-savvy to do business with normal people.

I am happy to find my own dates of my own - that's not the problem. The problem is that any girl who is pretty and young and has some brains and went to a decent university has a 80% chance to come from one of those middle and middle/upper class families. Who are, coincidentally, the families who wouldn't want to touch us adult foreigners (and even the young foreigners, I suspect) with a 5-foot pole. And if not the famly, the chick herself.
yick wrote:The problem PD has is not the women of the Philippines but the views of the people at the Rotary Club - he gives a shit for some reason about what they think.

Personally, I would wipe my backside with the membership card of the Davao Rotary Club and be happy but hey ho... that's bringing PD happiness
as they are all his friends.

What strikes me as weird - just a thought here - is that PD is amazed that his Rotary Club chums aren't introducing him to their female relatives and friends.

Would a singe Pakistani doctor in his forties get the introductions of fellow members of any country club he was a member in the UK?

Would he hell!

I mean, his friends in the club and fellow members might think he is a spiffing chap and a jolly good sort, but there is a difference in mingling for drinks and marrying their family members off to someone who isn't them.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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publicduende wrote:And it's always the same story...ALL the women who have any appreciable looks and brain value, in Manila like Milan, Turkey to Tanzania, Canberra to Cape Town, are inevitably taken, married up, engaged, involved, wrapped up.

One can only be so lucky to find himself in the right place at the right time, in that tiny 1 or 2 month time window between break-ups.
No. They are out there. Trust me from my years in San Francisco back when I was in my late 30's early 40's. Plenty good candidates who "can't find a guy to f**k them" meaning can't find a quality guy who is willing to have a monogamous long term relationship. Quality women can find junk guys like Cornfed easily enough or quality guys for a fling, but they would rather be alone than those alternatives.

The real problem is finding these women. Salsa and swing dancing were helpful for me back in the day, but I just can't get interested in all that anymore. However, I have another plan for Ukraine. I won't reveal it publicly because I don't want PUAs barging in and ruining the reputation of foreigners in this activity.

The best thing is find some social activities you are already interested in and pursue it while in Manila. Tennis, golf, bridge, drawing live models, singing or playing music as part of a group, etc, etc.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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retiredfrank wrote:No. They are out there. Trust me from my years in San Francisco back when I was in my late 30's early 40's. Plenty good candidates who "can't find a guy to f**k them" meaning can't find a quality guy who is willing to have a monogamous long term relationship. Quality women can find junk guys like Cornfed easily enough or quality guys for a fling, but they would rather be alone than those alternatives.

The real problem is finding these women. Salsa and swing dancing were helpful for me back in the day, but I just can't get interested in all that anymore. However, I have another plan for Ukraine. I won't reveal it publicly because I don't want PUAs barging in and ruining the reputation of foreigners in this activity.

The best thing is find some social activities you are already interested in and pursue it while in Manila. Tennis, golf, bridge, drawing live models, singing or playing music as part of a group, etc, etc.
As far as dancing goes, I've checked that out in several continents and it sucks, old ladies and the occasional aloof younger girl, or people that are a bit cocky because they already handle the moves etc. Useless, I don't know how you had a decent experience on those.

Just as Kradmelder's, your views are a bit outdated, my feeling is you guys got action during better times with more authentic people and no antisocial media narcissism etc. But your advice still applies anyways, those other activities are much better than carbon-copied toxic bars and clubs.
Last edited by droid on March 8th, 2017, 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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@droid: Activities which work for meeting women is what we should be discussing here at HA, rather that all the other foolishness.

Salsa still works in the flyover city I currently call home when not traveling (I now travel most of the time, such as right now in Spain), except I'm bored by it and the women are young (mostly 20's, often very good-looking hispanics) and looking for same age guys. If I could get interested in them, it would be easy to meet women in their 40's at these salsa dances who look like they've been rode hard and put away wet as the saying goes. But my boredom drives then away plus I'd be impotent if I did get them. I also don't like staying up late any more. And yes, you do have to know how to dance. Being able to competently lead absolute beginners and make them look and feel good is an extremely useful skill, though a skill that takes time to develop.

Ballroom dancing is mostly frightful old women and other freaks, I'll concur with that.

Several boxing places opened up recently in town, where young women hit and kick punching bags in between drinking smoothies at the bar and socializing. Yoga, zumba, pilates, soul-cycle and barre are other big fads, plus regular gyms. I'd avoid crossfit women however.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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publicduende wrote: I am happy to find my own dates of my own - that's not the problem. The problem is that any girl who is pretty and young and has some brains and went to a decent university has a 80% chance to come from one of those middle and middle/upper class families. Who are, coincidentally, the families who wouldn't want to touch us adult foreigners (and even the young foreigners, I suspect) with a 5-foot pole. And if not the famly, the chick herself.
How did you determine this? How many times out of how many attempts did you try to get get to know a girl from a middle/upper middle class family only to find out you were shut out for being an adult foreigner or maybe even just foreign? I ask because I want to have an idea of sample size which is an important metric to consider in determining probable accuracy of your assertion. It's important to differentiate between emotional rants of frustration and more objective stats to approach the 'truth'.

The size of so-called middle class up here in Metro Man has exploded in recent years, most likely due to a combination of factors - high to very high growth in BPO, tourist visits and expating here, commercial and residential real estate development, vehicle sales, wellness and cosmetic surgery, higher level opportunities like English teaching for Pinoys in neighboring countries thanks to increased ASEAN integration and general flow of money towards SE Asia, influx of mainland Chinese for online casino and other business, restaurants featuring foreign or ethnic food, and continued robust OFW activity to name a few. Depending on how you define the middle class, it's probably several hundred thousand to maybe 2+ million large in the NCR with areas where you see very high volumes of non-desperate locals thanks to some of the highest population densities here in the world. In theory, it should be a great place to run a numbers game, especially if you have the balls to cold approach in public or say warm approach with certain staff who interact with you in restos and other forms of functional necessity.

Of course there are some barriers. I believe Winston is way off the mark when he claims Filipinos are very approachable in public if he thinks that includes Manila area ex the tiny red light zones. People up here during seem pretty reserved and keep some polite distance with strangers IMO. It comes out in the way they speak too. There is definitely an inital wall you need to manage your way around.

But, I don't think people here and many girls in particular care so much whether you are expat foreigner or local, even when it comes to dating. They tend to be more open minded and free. If you manage to attract one and she is single and maybe if not (up to further analysis as to what percent are single), you have a great chance of establishing some sort of romantic relationship with her. Some girls including certain intellectual and/or freethinking oddball types even prefer the concept of 'dating a first world foreigner' due to them on average being one or more of: taller, wealthier, lighter skinned, more intelligent, more educated, and more achieved in career.

Davao is a backwater and like so many Filipino towns and cities, pretty dumpy and uninspiring IMO. As I told you via text, breaking into an uber elite circle so small that it may only have a few dozen to few hundred girls you are interested in is probably not doable anywhere in the world as a regular foreigner (and that's what you are), even a place as run down as say Liberia.

If you leave out pure dumb luck, it seems statistically the best chance of achieving your goal is to run an intense numbers game in first tier urban Philippines which would require having thick enough skin to cold and warm approach, investing the required time and energy, patiently courting women on your shortlist til things fully play out with each of them, and suffering a lot of rejections in the process. Most guys are not up to all that. I don't think PUA has caught on here in a big way.

Also, make sure you are at your best. Is there any low lying fruit when it comes to your own looks, style, and personality/communication style? Perhaps you should ask for some honest advice from certain female friends who you think are switched on enough to see how you might appear to young local Pinay.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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publicduende wrote:@Adama

If you don't understand the first paragraph you quoted, it's because you probably never went through the rise and fall of a love relationship. Things do not last forever. Love does not last forever and, I believe, 9 times out of 10 it's because the couple fails to evolve and develop together. Entering a long term relationship with someone is like promising each other that they will be spending the rest of their lives holding hands and moving in unison. If one or both of them move in different directions or at a different pace, holding hands is no longer possible. Boredom, frustration and misunderstandings start poisoning the couple's life.

In case of my wife and I was simply too keen to try new things in life, move around the world, take risks and help people, while she wanted to live her version of the American Dream...buy a bigger house on an impossible 35-years mortgage, have a kid or two (too bad both of us had problems bearing children), a car or two (too bad cars are a useless show off in and around London) and, perhaps, look at herself in the mirror and tell herself "that's it, that's where I can stop". I wanted to go on. I don't know what was the dealbreaker in the relationship. I felt that, especially since 2015, my wife and I have been drifting one inch apart more every day, until one morning we woke up and our hands were firmly in our pockets, instead of being intertwined.
Sorry to hear that. It's been a while since we've met in London. This really must have been quite a journey for you. Having a wife demand a house and car can be quite burdensome, especially for a couple living in expensive London.

Something similar happened to Jester while he was in Thailand too. It seems like the two of you have been through some similar situations.

As for me, I've successfully been with my girlfriend in Thailand for over one year, with minimal drama. Although she isn't the intellectual type, she is at least a highly responsible business owner and family woman who leads an orderly life.

So have you tried talking to Marcos Zeitola about this? He is very happy with his wife, a UP Diliman graduate, and they also have kids together.
Last edited by Falcon on March 8th, 2017, 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Jonny Law wrote:Thai women are:
1. unbelievably unfaithful (or asexual, or too busy with their career to give a shit about anyone)
2. absolutely no motherly instincts (most likley to abandon their children)
SOLUTION
Pump-and-Dump Thai women while seaching for a non-Thai for a long term relationship. Thai women are only good for Pump-and-Dumps. They all have f**k buddies. Just enjoy the rides and drop them off at the curb you found them at.
I agree that a depressingly large proportion of the normal, regular non-bar Thai working-class population is like this. But there are also many others who make good wives, and they don't tend to be the ones you meet on a first date. Try someone who has minimal contact with foreign tourists. My girlfriend certainly does not fit the above and has highly admirable maternal instincts, and takes care of our daughter very well every single day. But finding another person of her quality wouldn't be an easy task in Thailand.

Similarly, a depressingly large proportion of Chinese women would make us want to run for cover due to their materialistic demands and rude behavior, but many others would make great life partners.

Oh, and Jonny Law's rants about Thailand sound almost like Winston's non-stop rants about Taiwan. :P
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Re: Philippines' killjoy truth (note to self)

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Falcon wrote:
publicduende wrote:@Adama

If you don't understand the first paragraph you quoted, it's because you probably never went through the rise and fall of a love relationship. Things do not last forever. Love does not last forever and, I believe, 9 times out of 10 it's because the couple fails to evolve and develop together. Entering a long term relationship with someone is like promising each other that they will be spending the rest of their lives holding hands and moving in unison. If one or both of them move in different directions or at a different pace, holding hands is no longer possible. Boredom, frustration and misunderstandings start poisoning the couple's life.

In case of my wife and I was simply too keen to try new things in life, move around the world, take risks and help people, while she wanted to live her version of the American Dream...buy a bigger house on an impossible 35-years mortgage, have a kid or two (too bad both of us had problems bearing children), a car or two (too bad cars are a useless show off in and around London) and, perhaps, look at herself in the mirror and tell herself "that's it, that's where I can stop". I wanted to go on. I don't know what was the dealbreaker in the relationship. I felt that, especially since 2015, my wife and I have been drifting one inch apart more every day, until one morning we woke up and our hands were firmly in our pockets, instead of being intertwined.
Sorry to hear that. It's been a while since we've met in London. This really must have been quite a journey for you. Having a wife demand a house and car can be quite burdensome, especially for a couple living in expensive London.

Something similar happened to Jester while he was in Thailand too. It seems like the two of you have been through some similar situations.

There are some very basic things that people often miss in life. There is a choice to make between "people" (loved ones) and money. Kind and loving people will choose their loved ones. People who love money will choose money over people.

Is the goal to be united with a loving partner? Or is it about ego, money, prestige and status? Because for people who at least value other people (and institutions such as marriage), their wife or their husband would matter more to them than impressing the Joneses.

Why would you throw away your wife or husband because you want a bigger house? What's more valuable? The partner or a bigger home? If the answer is that a bigger home and a sweet automobile are more valuable than their marriage partner, then that just makes you wonder about these people.

There is no advice that can be given to this man to help him. He is confused, willfully confused, knowing he is confused, and wanting to remain in confusion. There is no way anyone can help him. He loves the state he is in. The solution is quite simple. Unfortunately, he doesn't truly want what he says he's asking for. His goals are in opposition, just like the choices between money/status and love.
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