eurobrat wrote:OutWest wrote:
Euro-
I am no kind of expert on Italy, but having lived in three countries in Latin America and two in Asia, I have learned a bit about the hazards of expatriation. I have seen men who seemed to be following what I think sage advice, who never the less, had bad experiences. Giving advice is like lending clothing- it does not always fit.
What mystical power did Public have to prevent you from leaving Italy after a month or two, with the conclusion that Italy was just not for you? Some men, buy the nature and makeup, are incompatible with another man's well intended advice. Perhaps you should realize this. Advice and experience are both dominated by individual taste, character and background.
You make it sound as if Public had some spiteful agenda. Based on what I have read of his travels and his conversations about the Philippines, which I know very well, he comes across as a man with a rather generous heart and a good traveler. He comes across as a man who does not assume too much, who is capable of adjusting his expectations and behavior to local conditions, and hence improve his results.
Yes, there are hazards in giving advice as well as taking it. You did continue in Italy though it should have been obvious in a relatively short period of time that it was not working out for you.
You come across as churlish and ungrateful to a man who made good faith efforts to be of help and gave of his own time.
I have been through quite a few countries- more than most, and some I liked a blot better than others, yet I have yet to find someplace where I could not find a niche to make my own. On quite a few occasions I found quite attractive girls inhabiting the same niche in fact.
Why would you let Public or anyone else own your experience? That is what you are doing when you blame him for his "bad" advice. Whether intended or not, you come across as a spoiled entitled young American (complete with the slights about Public's "old age") rather than someone who is looking to craft and own their own experiences and adjust to local conditions, or not (As in just leaving).
You could have had a bad experience in Italy, left much earlier if it was beyond hope, found nirvana in Berlin, and in the end ended up at some point having a pint with Public in London. I do not know if you will come to see this, or just rage against that em-efer in London that screwed you over. I mean really, aren't you better than that?
Point well taken, but who the f**k are you to say that I put in absolutely no effort and I'm just some spoiled young american? That's just plain out wrong and now you're the one assuming and not me.
Where you there? Do you have any idea how hard I worked to get to Italy and make it work with all the different types of life issues we encounter when going abroad such as finding steady income to feed and clothe and put a roof over your head, making sure you are legally in the country, bank accounts, finding a decent apartment or room to rent, getting to know the city, the customs, learning the language etc. etc. I actually solved all of those except finding a social circle because the Italian people I encountered were too cliquey and closed off or I wasn't cool enough.
For anyone to say I just snapped my fingers and decided to go expat to Italy is insane. It took 2 years of planning for me, selling all my stuff, closing off ties in the US, actually more like 7 years if you count how long the Jus Soli process took with the Italians.
I stayed because I truly did intend on making it work, that's why I stayed. I tried as hard as I could but there's just no way to socially be accepted in Italy unless you grow up there. I have seen it and lived it.
At times I felt like his advice was pointless, which a lot of it was. And other advice he gave, I tried out and it was good so I followed it. In comparing with other Italians I found his advice dated and mostly completely useless, maybe he's not as spiteful as he comes off and maybe he's just aloof but a turd is a turd in my eyes. If his advice couldn't produce results as it didn't, then obviously his advice isn't worth anything. I made a few friends in Italy on my own accord who I now talk with regularly but that had nothing to do with Publics advice and had more with me being simply myself.
Just as you said advice is like clothes, well so are countries, people and cultures. I hate Italian culture and Italians but at least I gave it a shot and tried it out. I do feel much more at peace here in Berlin. It's more economically safe, it's clean and efficient, there's no more loud Italians around. I actually go out now and enjoy talking to the people, eating the food and taking in the culture and history.
You can sit here and fling shit at me from your keyboard through the internet, but in the end you have no idea how much I went through and how hard it was in Italy to just enjoy myself, the country, the people and the whole expatriating experience.
