American men: just as bad as American women?

[Blue Murder]

You know every answer to all of the questions you asked, Marcos.

[Gadfly]

I have no reason to assume, based on my experiences so far and those of others, that American men are any better then American women.

Neither do I. I don't think much of either one, TBH.

BTW why didn't you marry a local Dutch girl, but instead go to Asia and marry an Asian girl?

[fschmidt]

Yes American men are just as bad as American women. All are scum.

[pete98146]

It's a fair question Marcos. I can only answer this from my own set of eyes so here goes. I live in Seattle which is on the left coast. One of the biggest problems that my city faces is that hundreds upon hundreds of men are moving here from all over the world to take all the high tech jobs that this city has to offer. Translation: Great for the local economy and putrid for single men seeking relationships.

What happens when there is such a big gender imbalance? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that even the homeliest women are being inundated with attention from men. The end result is that women are placed on pedestals and they have the luxury of being extremely selective.....and they are.

On the opposite end of the spectrum we all thousands upon thousands of men that have almost zero chances to get a date...simply not enough women to go around. Does this color them "bad"???? I think not. I'll use a baseball analogy. "You gotta go up to the plate in order to get a hit". Most guys in Seattle don't get out of the dugout.

So you see that men and women are on completely different plains and not on level playing fields. With this being the case, it's difficult to label men or women as "bad." Women are (rightfly so) taking advantage of a good situation. Is this "bad"? I think not. If the shoe was on the other foot, men would be going on numerous dates and taking advantage of a good situation just as the women in Seattle are doing.

And to label men "bad", this implies that men are getting dates. They aren't even getting the opportunity to be labeled "bad." A better description would be 1. Lonely 2. Desperate 3. Forced into MGTOW.

Things may be different in an area where there exists 50% men and 50% women. So I'd be curious to hear other's points of view...

[Ghost]

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[Gadfly]

BTW why didn't you marry a local Dutch girl, but instead go to Asia and marry an Asian girl?

I never specifically looked for a foreign woman, but ended up with one for a number of reasons:

1. I want to have a traditional life with a large family. With the high cost of living in the West and widespread feminism, it is hard to find a woman willing or able to provide you with a large family and a traditional life. Even if she wanted it, chances are you cannot afford it anyway. Abroad, in places where prices are far cheaper and women more traditional, the chance of finding such a woman and living such a life are far greater.

2. I was rather sick and tired of living in my country. Now, mind you, I had a great run while it lasted. I enjoyed my education, had a few good friends, and a family that is very dear to me. But people overall are too driven by status, too materialistic, too individualistic. I did not want my greatest measure of success to be the amount of likes I would get on an instagram picture, my ability to show off my wealth, my paycheck, or the car I am driving.

3. I happened to run into a girl, who became my girlfriend, then my fiancée, and then my wife. And she just happened to be a Filipina. I never connected to any girls the way I connected to her. Not to white Dutch girls, not with a girl from Italy, not with a girl from the UK, not with local immigrant girls, not in Denmark, not with my classmates in higher education, not with any of the girls I met while studying, or any of the girls I talked to online... and then I met this girl who I could have conversations with that lasted for hours, who never bored me, who was funny, witty and driven by the same dreams, passions and desires as myself. She was creative, like me, family-oriented, like me, and we just clicked... the rest is history.

To sum it up: I met many girls. Talked to and connected to many girls, both physically and emotionally. But I only fell in love once, and this was to a girl from "abroad". Being happier with her then I was with anyone, anywhere in my life before, I am therefore HappierAbroad.

That's all fine. Your explanation above isn't so much different from what a reasonably perceptive American man would give.

The problem of overall population and culture in the USA is indeed bad. And I suspect it is quite bad in Western Europe as well, though probably in different ways and degrees. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt driven (like an American man) to seek a foreign, Asian girl and marry her.

I also suspect that perhaps the male population in W. Europe is every bit as bad as the women, because it is the conduct of men that largely dictates how the women will turn out. And to put it bluntly, your women generally aren't much good at all.

[droid]

3. I happened to run into a girl, who became my girlfriend, then my fiancée, and then my wife. And she just happened to be a Filipina. I never connected to any girls the way I connected to her. Not to white Dutch girls, not with a girl from Italy, not with a girl from the UK, not with local immigrant girls, not in Denmark, not with my classmates in higher education, not with any of the girls I met while studying, or any of the girls I talked to online... and then I met this girl who I could have conversations with that lasted for hours, who never bored me, who was funny, witty and driven by the same dreams, passions and desires as myself. She was creative, like me, family-oriented, like me, and we just clicked... the rest is history.

To sum it up: I met many girls. Talked to and connected to many girls, both physically and emotionally. But I only fell in love once, and this was to a girl from "abroad". Being happier with her then I was with anyone, anywhere in my life before, I am therefore HappierAbroad.

You seem to be the only poster here that actually believes in love man, congratulations. I had never actually loved until recently and let me tell you man it's great stuff. Only toxic and jaded souls refer to love as "one-itis" and so on. Sex and mongering is great but love is awesome, to feel you actually don't want other girls etc. Now I understand Magnum and why he got devastated by losing his first chinese girl. I would chastise him for not getting over it and getting another one from the millions available, but if you haven't loved or been loved you can't understand.

[Adama]

Individually a man will stab you in the back the same way a woman did. If a woman does something bad to a man, other men will assume that man provoked it out of the woman, even men who claim to be anti feminist and MGTOW because I was a member of those sites and watched as many took the mangina route whenever I posted of a problem. Many men are directly against traditional relationships while claiming to be in favor of them.

In my professional life, I have seen that men will try to get you fired the same way women will. I've had male coworkers lie on me to try to ruin my reputation, complain to my boss that I did things which I didnt and otherwise try to inflict damage in my life. All cause they're losers.

American men have the women they deserve for the most part. Women could not act the way they do without the consent of the men. If men had stood up in the past to say they wouldnt put up with certain behaviors, then women wouldnt do it, but that would mean women taking on a leadership role, but most men believe in feminism.

I also think a lot of problems stem with how we got along with women during our early teenage years. Men have to learn how to interact with American women, because of the nature of the culture, things do not work as they would in more traditional cultures. Also, the culture does tell you one thing, but in reality if you do things the way you are instructed by the media, you will fail. So it takes more social skills in the USA and more emotional intelligence just to deal with the B.S. AWs will throw at you. But again, most men think that is both fair and normal.

[traveller]

There are actually cases where American guys make a poor choice. Basically it's like, they are desparate, but at the same time they want someone skinny, he is smitten by a 300-pound unattractive sexual turnoff. And then when a skinny beautiful one comes along, he cheats on the 300-pounder and causes a love triangle. It is a shame that many guys choose poorly.

As an avid watcher of the Jerry Springer show, I have seen it happen a lot in which the guy cheats on his 300-pound girlfriend/fiancee/wife with a skinny woman, and then the fights break out on the stage. And most of the time the man finally comes clean and tells the 300-pounder that she is unattractive, doesn't turn him on, and such. In fact, take a look at this example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhXz13AJHL8

[Gadfly]

I also suspect that perhaps the male population in W. Europe is every bit as bad as the women, because it is the conduct of men that largely dictates how the women will turn out. And to put it bluntly, your women generally aren't much good at all.

I see it a little differently, myself. The same way a child is the product of it's upbringing, a man or woman is the product of the culture in which he or she is born and grows up in. The more shallow, individualistic and selfish the culture becomes, the more you will see similar negative effects on the personalities and behavior of people living in it. The Western world is decadent to an insane degree, people are weak, not used to anything anymore. There is a generation of men and women who are coddled and lost touch with their inner self, nature, and the world around them.

Yes, we can still find good men and good women in the Western world. Be it America, Western Europe, or the highly industralized countries of Asia. But in any part of the world that has a society one would deem "advanced", life in general tends to produce spoiled and selfish people. I wanted to avoid this, not just for myself but also for my family, for my future. Had I stayed in my country, I would have ended up in a group home, barely ever visited by family. Whereas in the Philippines, in my old age I will still be a respected member of the community, of my family and of society in general, rather then a nuisance to be locked away, fed and ignored until my death.

The male population of decadent countries, in my experience, is made up of too many people who cannot survive a day without their iPhones, touchscreens, gadgets and other luxury items. Drop these people in the outdoors and they're not going to make it through the night. That's not the type of man I want my sons to be like. So, I bailed.

Well, the fact is you didn't marry someone of your own people. Because let's face it: generally speaking, your own women aren't much good, just like American women. You wouldn't have gone abroad and married an Asian girl otherwise.

And your fellow men aren't much better either. That's indicated by your women, as well as your culture which by your own admission is indifferent to elderly family members.

[onethousandknives]

Well, yes and no. On some metrics, yes. For example, American men and American women are pretty much neck and neck with each other for average BMIs for obesity. So complaining about all the "fat American women" while valid, there's a pretty high chance the complainer (at least online) would be a fat American male as well. However, being gigantically obese is quite a sexual turnoff for most people, and does generally for the worst, affect said person's attitude and psych, including their confidence, and you can see this effect with both men and women. But here's the problem. If you're a skinny guy, and 30-40% of the female population is obese, this kind of rules out any sexual attraction to 30-40% of the female population, regardless of any self empowerment or pulling up by the bootstraps or whatever. Besides this weight issue, I'd read through some girls' online dating profiles, and it's boring generic shit ("I love netflix!!11") but I never looked on some guy's profiles, and what is it? Boring generic shit "I like chillin' and smokin' BLAZE IT YO."

On other metrics, it's pretty clearcut that the women are basically worse than the men, at least in the realm of a functional relationship or family structure. Higher rates of psychiatric drug use. Higher rates of mental illness. Much more likely to file for divorce (I think something like 70-80% of divorces are filed by women?) Thus showing serious commitment and mental health issues in them, statistically speaking. And obviously too, there is the anecdotal experiences of various people and people on this forum.

As far as dating in America, it depends. Marcos is right, in that it's not quite as clear cut as "every American woman is the devil incarnate." But at the same time, statistically you are less likely to have a happy relationship with one, and anecdotally, we all know people in pretty horrible relationships with one, or worse, are sons of fathers that had a bad experience with one. So there's a difference between caution and outright hatred. You could compare the situation to blacks in USA, statistics are much worse regarding them, but not every black person you meet is a bad person, but at the same time, almost nobody wants to live in a "black neighborhood" including many black people.

Basically, going with a foreign woman is just a way to raise your mathematical odds in your favor. It's not some great guarantee of success or panacea, but why be where the odds are stacked against you in multiple ways? People don't find it strange at all to relocate to a better job market if there are no good jobs in your area because of circumstances beyond your control. They don't tell you to believe in yourself and have more confidence and do self improvement, they say "well, good luck and I hope you get a better job out there." We accept this logic quite readily for something as simple as employment, which is quite less of an important decision than who you decide to spend your life with and have raise your children. Yeah, sure, one could maybe find a computer programming job out in Wyoming, but his chances are much lower than in California.

Anyway, Marcos didn't really point out anything specific to his premise of American men being as bad as American women, just saying a few American women he met weren't too bad (anecdotal.) I mean, I could give an anecdote too of the one person I know IRL living Happier Abroad is actually living in the Netherlands now and really loves it there, but Marcos could respond it's terrible and sucks and is consumeristic and stupid (which said person told me it's somewhat the opposite.)

Hmm, I have more to say regarding this, but I think I'll make my own topic just to share my own experiences.

[Yohan]

That's all fine. Your explanation above isn't so much different from what a reasonably perceptive American man would give.

The problem of overall population and culture in the USA is indeed bad. And I suspect it is quite bad in Western Europe as well, though probably in different ways and degrees. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt driven (like an American man) to seek a foreign, Asian girl and marry her.

I also suspect that perhaps the male population in W. Europe is every bit as bad as the women, because it is the conduct of men that largely dictates how the women will turn out. And to put it bluntly, your women generally aren't much good at all.

I am from Europe, moved to Asia. Generally, I see little difference between women in USA/Canada/Australia/UK/Continental Europe.　
However US-citizens are always moving any discussion into extreme issues and try to teach others that USA has universal laws and all others should follow US-moral values.

USA is well-known for intolerance - all this racist BS, and all this religious BS, and discussion with feminists is always ending in hateful comments to each other. - I think, communication in Continental Europe is functioning much better and society is much more tolerant even if the person next to you is not sharing your opinion.

A visa for a foreign wife is a big issue in the States, but not in Europe. many nations are visafree for several months anyway for most foreign citizens.

In Europe, a foreign wife is surely no topic worth a discussion for most people regardless their gender, and even if the majority might be Christians this does not mean that prostitution does not legally exist, something like abortion is not even a topic anymore between feminists and MGTOW, travel abroad is normal and almost everybody has a passport ready to go etc. etc.

About myself, race and religion means nothing to me, there were also various other issues, why I decided to relocate to Asia, it was not only because of 'women' and 'feminism'.

[Adama]

In some ways, they matter even more in for example the Philippines then they do in America. You have a culture of courting women, and during the period of courtship your friendship with the woman is what will eventually grow into love. You need to win her over, woo her, and it's not going to be the car you drive or the suit you wear that will win her over; it's how thoughtful you are to her, how sensitive, how sweet. It's how you serenade her, how you make her feel "kilig" (" sudden feeling of an inexplicable joy one gets when something romantic or idealistic occurs"). So in a way, I would say more traditional societies rely more heavily on your personality as opposed to how flashy and rich you are.

I think both you and I have a more realistic view of women. Most of the men here have a lopsided view of women. They see the bad women and they assume that the majority of women are bad. It is just that the bad women are more noticeable, because they are more vocal, louder, and they are the ones who are out there and seemingly available. Good women aren't going out to bars and clubs. Therefore they aren't scamming men for drinks and trying to get men to fight for her honor.

A man can be so blind to goodness because he is so focused on believing that only evil exists. How then would he ever recognize the goodness that is out there? He either doesnt see it, or chalks it up to acting, or finds another reason to dismiss it.

I bring this up because men here honestly either believe there is no such thing as good women, or they believe every woman is naturally a gold digging sl*t. They have zero discernment skills. They see women and assume that person must be purchased. They are just wondering if they can afford her. They do not even see them as full human beings. Women are just objects. What other type of man would assume that luring women in with money is a good thing, except for one who doesnt understand that there are actually different kinds of women in the world besides the usual gold diggers? That's because they don't see the whole person, or that some women are individuals and NAWALT. Which takes us to the heart of the problem: A lack of discernment skills and gross over-generalizations which distort reality into a very sad caricature.

[Gadfly]

That's all fine. Your explanation above isn't so much different from what a reasonably perceptive American man would give.

The problem of overall population and culture in the USA is indeed bad. And I suspect it is quite bad in Western Europe as well, though probably in different ways and degrees. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt driven (like an American man) to seek a foreign, Asian girl and marry her.

I also suspect that perhaps the male population in W. Europe is every bit as bad as the women, because it is the conduct of men that largely dictates how the women will turn out. And to put it bluntly, your women generally aren't much good at all.

I am from Europe, moved to Asia. Generally, I see little difference between women in USA/Canada/Australia/UK/Continental Europe.　
However US-citizens are always moving any discussion into extreme issues and try to teach others that USA has universal laws and all others should follow US-moral values.

USA is well-known for intolerance - all this racist BS, and all this religious BS, and discussion with feminists is always ending in hateful comments to each other. - I think, communication in Continental Europe is functioning much better and society is much more tolerant even if the person next to you is not sharing your opinion.

A visa for a foreign wife is a big issue in the States, but not in Europe. many nations are visafree for several months anyway for most foreign citizens.

In Europe, a foreign wife is surely no topic worth a discussion for most people regardless their gender, and even if the majority might be Christians this does not mean that prostitution does not legally exist, something like abortion is not even a topic anymore between feminists and MGTOW, travel abroad is normal and almost everybody has a passport ready to go etc. etc.

About myself, race and religion means nothing to me, there were also various other issues, why I decided to relocate to Asia, it was not only because of 'women' and 'feminism'.

Whatever the differences between the US and W. Europe, your women are still bad, not much different from American women. That's really the bottom line.

And your fellow men, of course, are failures (just like N. American men) to have allowed your women to become the way they are.

[WorldTraveler]

And to label men "bad", this implies that men are getting dates. They aren't even getting the opportunity to be labeled "bad." A better description would be 1. Lonely 2. Desperate 3. Forced into MGTOW.

Things may be different in an area where there exists 50% men and 50% women. So I'd be curious to hear other's points of view...

Everywhere in the USA there is a lack of women to date. This is because so many women don't want to date men. They are happy living alone and having their "career".

Men are as bad as women, because most of them are pussies and have given away the keys to castle to women and gotten nothing in return. Most men can't be honest and can't be your friend.