What is the natural age of consent?

[zacb]

I know I might be stirring up a bees nest, but what determines the age of consent? To me it seems like it is whatever society says. I thought the law was supposed to be objective and not subjective? Should we deny 1,000s of year of evidence that it is normal? Idk. I guess it come back to this:

[youtube]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mJQnlXOQ2w[/youtube]


To me it seems like either we all have inalienable rights, or we don't.

And if this was the only problem, I would be ok. If people just had different views on it then other people, ok. But basically they say that any culture that marries 15 or 16 year olds are a bunch of f***tards. Why? Maybe some of the things Americans do are kind of f'ed up. Why is there such a moral superiority over it? Why not just believe what you believe and practice it, and that is it.


In addition to that, even when legal adults (whatever that means) come together and either want to get married of exchange services, they are ridiculed. You might hear, "Oh, she's a gold digger", or "Yeah, he's robbing the cradle". SO WHAT!!!!!!! Then when you ask these people to back up their claims (in my case with another Christian) , and where in the Bible it says it is wrong, they go into a spiel about how polygamy was allowed and yada, yada, yada. To me it seems like personal prejudices . Idk. I hate the way society things. Anyways, looking back at this, idk if this should be in rants or in here. I was not intending to go on a rant, but sometimes it just slips out. Anyways.[/youtube]

[Jester]

I think nature has answered this question.

[publicduende]

The term "natural age of consent" is a big antithesis. "Natural" would point to something that our nature of intelligent animals, animals nonetheless, would lead us to do. "Consent" refers to an act both parties have to give consent to, regardless or beyond their natural urges of the moment.

[zacb]

I guess what I mean is that you can't regulate stuff like this. So if we left it to it's won, what would be the ethical way of handling situations? I, along with most people, believe consent should be given. But besides that, it seems that Positivism has snug into our law (yeah, I know , no kidding right?) and our objective law has term into whatever the public wants on a whim. You want to ban a Mosque? Okie dokie. Want to ban a certain facility from opening up (porn shop, Chic-Fil a, etc.)? Okie dokie.

So basically my point being is that I believe it should be the parent's job, and not the federal government's job to raise a child. And Lord forbid if a young guy likes a chick that is under the "legal " limit. C'mon. People are having their names tarnished over something that is natural. And seriously, who ultimately decides who can do what?


And just as a side note, I mean natural as in without government intervention. As it would be in nature/ a responsible society.

[publicduende]

I guess what I mean is that you can't regulate stuff like this. So if we left it to it's won, what would be the ethical way of handling situations? I, along with most people, believe consent should be given. But besides that, it seems that Positivism has snug into our law (yeah, I know , no kidding right?) and our objective law has term into whatever the public wants on a whim. You want to ban a Mosque? Okie dokie. Want to ban a certain facility from opening up (porn shop, Chic-Fil a, etc.)? Okie dokie.

So basically my point being is that I believe it should be the parent's job, and not the federal government's job to raise a child. And Lord forbid if a young guy likes a chick that is under the "legal " limit. C'mon. People are having their names tarnished over something that is natural. And seriously, who ultimately decides who can do what?

And just as a side note, I mean natural as in without government intervention. As it would be in nature/ a responsible society.

I'm still not sure what your point is here. If you're a male teenager, it's just normal to hang out and have sex with your teenage girlfriends, perhaps as young as 14. But if you're an adult man and still have your sexual preferences tuned to 15 or 16 years old, well, that's doesn't say a lot of good stuff about your emotional maturity. It could have been socially acceptable to marry a 16 years old when the average lifespan was 30/35 and a 16 years old woman would have her social role clear in her mind: know how to help with farming, cook, take care of the kids, etc. But now that we're far from underpopulated, resources are abundant and we live well into our 80s, there's no biological or natural need that justifies an adult looking for consent from a girl that young.

You mention Positivism, and that it tends to put a brake on behaviours that appear "natural" and biologically acceptable. The fact is, society does need superstructures that are designed and implemented by authority, rather than natural law or a common perception of fairness. It's one of the basic tenets of our society. Without out, we would be back to the rule of survival of the fittest.

[zacb]

What I am saying is if there is not a huge age difference (like 16 and 18 for instance), why is everyone so uptight. What I am saying is why can"t people live and let live?

[publicduende]

What I am saying is if there is not a huge age difference (like 16 and 18 for instance), why is everyone so uptight. What I am saying is why can"t people live and let live?

If you were 18 and dated a 16 years old you would know

[Cornfed]

I'm still not sure what your point is here. If you're a male teenager, it's just normal to hang out and have sex with your teenage girlfriends, perhaps as young as 14. But if you're an adult man and still have your sexual preferences tuned to 15 or 16 years old, well, that's doesn't say a lot of good stuff about your emotional maturity. It could have been socially acceptable to marry a 16 years old when the average lifespan was 30/35 and a 16 years old woman would have her social role clear in her mind: know how to help with farming, cook, take care of the kids, etc. But now that we're far from underpopulated, resources are abundant and we live well into our 80s, there's no biological or natural need that justifies an adult looking for consent from a girl that young.

Much like homosexuality, the idea that sex partners must be of similar age is a perversion promoted by Western regimes in order to destroy society. It is natural in almost all populations for the male to be older. Consider what happens when a lioness cub comes on stream. Who does the honors - some little twerp her own age or the big, seasoned alpha male?

The reason men who aren't perverts prefer teenaged females is that they have strong, unspoiled bodies capable of producing great-looking healthy babies. If men of any age prefer older women to women in their peak reproductive years then they are clearly perverts just like fags, people who f**k dogs etc.

[polya]

In America a man is serving the maximum of 5 years for 3rd degree rape. This for impregnating his de-facto wife when she was 15. The doctors counted back to conception and did a DNA test so he's history. How is this worth 5 years??

[publicduende]

I'm still not sure what your point is here. If you're a male teenager, it's just normal to hang out and have sex with your teenage girlfriends, perhaps as young as 14. But if you're an adult man and still have your sexual preferences tuned to 15 or 16 years old, well, that's doesn't say a lot of good stuff about your emotional maturity. It could have been socially acceptable to marry a 16 years old when the average lifespan was 30/35 and a 16 years old woman would have her social role clear in her mind: know how to help with farming, cook, take care of the kids, etc. But now that we're far from underpopulated, resources are abundant and we live well into our 80s, there's no biological or natural need that justifies an adult looking for consent from a girl that young.

Much like homosexuality, the idea that sex partners must be of similar age is a perversion promoted by Western regimes in order to destroy society. It is natural in almost all populations for the male to be older. Consider what happens when a lioness cub comes on stream. Who does the honors - some little twerp her own age or the big, seasoned alpha male?

The reason men who aren't perverts prefer teenaged females is that they have strong, unspoiled bodies capable of producing great-looking healthy babies. If men of any age prefer older women to women in their peak reproductive years then they are clearly perverts just like fags, people who f**k dogs etc.

What a load of nonsense. Of course a certain age gap between man and his woman is permitted, and actually quite the norm. A 50 years old could date a 20 years old if he's still able to attract her, and that's a huge gap. But a 35 years old "dating" a 14 years old is just a desperate man.

I think the OP was talking about consent from the very young, 16 or younger. A 14 years old, or younger, is not at her reproductive peak at all. In fact it's been even proven that mothers that young usually have babies who are less healthy, with a lower IQ.

[publicduende]

What a load of nonsense. Of course a certain age gap between man and his woman is permitted, and actually quite the norm. A 50 years old could date a 20 years old if he's still able to attract her, and that's a huge gap. But a 35 years old "dating" a 14 years old is just a desperate man.

I think the OP was talking about consent from the very young, 16 or younger. A 14 years old, or younger, is not at her reproductive peak at all. In fact it's been even proven that mothers that young usually have babies who are less healthy, with a lower IQ.

If true it probably has more to do with the populations of females that young who are still breeding and the men who impregnate them. It is older females who are more likely to birth defective children for obvious reasons. It varies from female to female but most 14 year old females in the West are fully developed and fecund and should be married off to older men at that age.

Like I said, we're not a primitive society driven by maximising our reproductive chances in a hostile and resource-scarce environment. It is no longer acceptable to even desire a very young girl based on such an obsolete argument. Any mentally healthy and emotionally developed adult will typically bond (marriage is not necessary) to a woman based on a much wider number or reasons, than those of successful procreation. This is all the more true considering that the onset of puberty in women is happening earlier and earlier, while their patterns of mental and emotional development remain almost unchanged. A modern 14 years old girl, regardless of her physical development or "adult looks", is still a child, uncapable to understand and play the kind of complex relationship that a marriage requires. This is why, in the few societies (mostly Islamic) that still condone marriage to girls that young, the girl is almost always turned into a submissive, silent slave to the adult husband, or continuously mentored by their parents and inlaws in the best cases. You will understand that this much more akin to child abuse, than then kind of balanced relationship that society seems to expect from a successful marriage.

There are a few notable cases of small communities, self-referential and/or far detached from the rest of the world, where the relative absence of legal scrutiny creates a climate where child abuse becomes permissible, or even the norm. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_I ... ls_of_2004 for example.

[publicduende]

Are you implying that it's best to marry and/or get a young girl pregnant because she's still young enough to be "non-slutified"?

Yes. This is the conventional wisdom of all societies that last longer than a few generations.

This is the "conventional wisdom" of pervs and paedophiles. And they usually don't live very well and don't last very long in society.

Yes I do find young women attractive, where young means 20, not 14.

Normal men find women that have gone through puberty and are fully developed (full height, hips and breasts etc.) attractive. Their calendar age is not generally an issue.

Normal men (whatever you mean by that) don't find a girl attractive just because she is physically developed or has an innocent look. And even if they do, they are aware that young girls are not marriage material and are best left alone experimenting matters of love and sex with their peers. That's a simple fact of life.

Quality children come from quality families where both parties are fully aware of the responsibility of bringing up a family, not from an adult wanting to take advantage of an immature child, as in your case.

If recent experience has taught us anything it is that women of any age have no innate concept of responsibility and need to be told what their responsibilities are by men. All the better to do this when they are young and capable of taking instruction.

Exactly. That's what good parenting is about. Else it's just called "paedo grooming talk". Come with me, I'm a big grown up man, I will teach you everything about life. And love...

Now I'm wondering about your model of a real society. What are you talking about? Girls are officially under their parents' responsibility until they're 18. They certainly don't need to be married to an older man to receive further care or assistance.

Actually they do. They need to be in an appropriate adult relationship and shown how to comport themselves in the adult world before they are turned into irresponsible whoreskanks. If you want to know just how disastrous the consequences of this not happening are, go to anywhere in the West and look left and look right. I don't see why there should be any real debate about this when it is easily seen that the current Western state religion of modernity/secular humanism is in fact a suicide cult which is destroying Western civilization as we speak.

Oh, sure. I find these "appropriate adult relationships" of middle aged men from Pakistan or Yemen with 10/12 years olds very inspiring. Look, I can even understand your point about girls, just like boys, having to have a responsible adult next to them to guide them in life. But that adult is usually a parent, or relative, and should not be sexually interested in them.

All in all, if you believe Western civilisation is being destroyed by social rules that protect children and give women the dignity they deserve, I wouldn't like to imagine what it would be of us if people like you were allowed to be in power.

[Jester]

Are you implying that it's best to marry and/or get a young girl pregnant because she's still young enough to be "non-slutified"?

Yes. This is the conventional wisdom of all societies that last longer than a few generations.

Yes I do find young women attractive, where young means 20, not 14.

Normal men find women that have gone through puberty and are fully developed (full height, hips and breasts etc.) attractive. Their calendar age is not generally an issue.

Quality children come from quality families where both parties are fully aware of the responsibility of bringing up a family, not from an adult wanting to take advantage of an immature child, as in your case.

If recent experience has taught us anything it is that women of any age have no innate concept of responsibility and need to be told what their responsibilities are by men. All the better to do this when they are young and capable of taking instruction.

Now I'm wondering about your model of a real society. What are you talking about? Girls are officially under their parents' responsibility until they're 18. They certainly don't need to be married to an older man to receive further care or assistance.

Actually they do. They need to be in an appropriate adult relationship and shown how to comport themselves in the adult world before they are turned into irresponsible whoreskanks. If you want to know just how disastrous the consequences of this not happening are, go to anywhere in the West and look left and look right. I don't see why there should be any real debate about this when it is easily seen that the current Western state religion of modernity/secular humanism is in fact a suicide cult which is destroying Western civilization as we speak.

+1

[publicduende]

Are you implying that it's best to marry and/or get a young girl pregnant because she's still young enough to be "non-slutified"?

Yes. This is the conventional wisdom of all societies that last longer than a few generations.

Yes I do find young women attractive, where young means 20, not 14.

Normal men find women that have gone through puberty and are fully developed (full height, hips and breasts etc.) attractive. Their calendar age is not generally an issue.

Quality children come from quality families where both parties are fully aware of the responsibility of bringing up a family, not from an adult wanting to take advantage of an immature child, as in your case.

If recent experience has taught us anything it is that women of any age have no innate concept of responsibility and need to be told what their responsibilities are by men. All the better to do this when they are young and capable of taking instruction.

Now I'm wondering about your model of a real society. What are you talking about? Girls are officially under their parents' responsibility until they're 18. They certainly don't need to be married to an older man to receive further care or assistance.

Actually they do. They need to be in an appropriate adult relationship and shown how to comport themselves in the adult world before they are turned into irresponsible whoreskanks. If you want to know just how disastrous the consequences of this not happening are, go to anywhere in the West and look left and look right. I don't see why there should be any real debate about this when it is easily seen that the current Western state religion of modernity/secular humanism is in fact a suicide cult which is destroying Western civilization as we speak.

+1

I really hope you're not plus-oneing the idea of marrying young girls. I really do.

[ssjparris]

okay you guys the age of consent is far lower in all countries except america ( go figure; since america has crazy laws) here are the numbers below for age of consent in a few countries:

1. Japan; 13 years of age

2 Ukraine; 16 years of age

3. France; 15 years of age

4. Mexico; 12 years of age

5. Argentina; 13 years of age

6. Colombia; 14 years of age

7. Canada; 16 years of age

8. Brazil; 14 years of age

9. Belgium; 16 years of age

10. Germany; 14 years of age

11. Czech republic; 15 years of age

12. vatican city; 12 years of age

13. Croatia; 14 years of age

14. Bulgaria; 14 years of age

15. Sweden; 15 years of age

16. Ukraine; 16 years of age

17. Spain; 13 years of age

18. Serbia; 14 years of age

19. Russia; 16 years of age

20. USA; f***ing 18 years of age ( ugh...such assholes)

don't get me wrong there are certain areas of each country where the age of consent is even lower then listed. and that includes the states such as texas where the age of consent is 16.

go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... th_America