Why do social groups and middle class people shun me?

[Winston]

Hi all,
Since I'm in the lonely miserable environment of Taiwan, where I can't possibly fit in anywhere or vibe with people, and where I have no synergy/compatibility/chemistry with anything, I'm getting depressed and feeling the misery, so I can't help but wonder about some things that I can't figure out and am banging my head over about. Can anyone provide any insight or answers to the following questions?

1. Why have I always had trouble fitting into most social groups, esp middle class ones in the USA and Taiwan? What is wrong with me? I am honest, nice, genuine, down to earth, intelligent with above average IQ, intellectual, possess a wide variety of knowledge, educated, communicative, very articulate, open minded, broad minded, insightful, interesting, etc. So what is wrong with that?! Why do I feel constantly penalized with loneliness and alienation?

To be honest, I feel resentful and vindictive that I've been deprived of a sense of belonging and camaraderie my whole life. It's really depressing when I think about it. It makes me feel sad and helpless too. I don't understand the justice behind it. What did I do wrong to deserve this?

(I guess I could try joining an Amazon jungle tribe and have a sense of group belonging and camaraderie, but I'm not sure I'd fit into that or be compatible with primitives.)

Why do most social groups and middle class people shun me and snub me, as though I have some karma over me that makes people want to punish and ostracize me? I can't find an exact cause for this. Could it be something intangible?

Why should I be punished for being me? How can I be honest, sincere, intelligent, open minded, broad minded, yet alienated and deprived of belonging, love and true friendship? How can such traits lead to loneliness and alienation? Aren't these good traits? Am I missing something?

2. Do people who are intellectual or above average in intelligence usually have trouble fitting in with most social groups?

I don't think it's just a case of me being on a different wavelength. When I was a child, I strived to conform and wanted to be accepted, to be cool and be liked. I was not an individualist. Yet I still had the same problems. Kids my age didn't like me. I didn't know why. Nor could I figure out how to fit in and act like everyone else.

I also don't think it's just a case of me being interested in taboo topics and saying controversial things and thinking outside the box. I mean, suppose I got up tomorrow and started saying only positive/lighthearted/politically correct things (like most people do) and only conversed in mundane topics like the weather, sports or politics. Does that mean that I would start receiving invitations to parties and gatherings all of a sudden? Would that lead to a sense of belonging with others? Would cliques and social groups starting wanting me in? I don't think so. It's not that simple, right? Being socially appropriate and being liked are not the same thing, right? I've never found that being more socially appropriate leads to a decrease in loneliness.

In America, being different can easily get your persecuted. But in Asia, people usually just avoid you and ostracize you if you're different. Both suck.

3. Next question. Why is it that most middle class people shun me and give me bad vibes? I get the sense that they want to keep me out, or think that they are too good for me for some reason. Why is that? Yet, consider this:

- I come from an upper middle class background, from a family that owns two houses (which most middle class families don't have). So in that sense, my background class is higher than that of most middle class people.
- I have an above average IQ and intelligence, and am an intellectual who can converse in a wide variety of subjects.
- I have a four year college degree and am educated.
- I'm very articulate and communicate well.
- I can think for myself and am a very interesting person.

So what I am saying is, since I come from a higher class background than most middle class people do, and am more intelligent than most of them, then why do most middle class people snub me as though they were better than me? Shouldn't they be looking up to me?! WTF?!

None of this adds up. I keep banging my head over this but can't figure it out. Am I an insane person with a warped view who does not recognize his own flaws? Or a sane/authentic person in an insane/fake world?

Are there any logical answers to these questions? Or am I the victim of fate, karma, unknown forces, and Murphy's Law, which seems to rule my life? Why do I suffer? Why am I always the victim of social deprivation and misery? Where is the justice in all this? What did I do wrong?

Is there a simple answer? Or is it a complex mix of many things, including intangible things such as soul age, vibration, mental wavelength, karma, bad luck, fate, destiny, etc.?

I know these questions make me sound like a loser, and most people in my shoes would never dare ask them. But I am a truth seeker, and truth seekers ask questions to understand things. So in that sense, I am only acting in accord with my nature.

Thanks for listening to my grievances and rant.

Addendum:

4. One more question. What makes someone a misfit exactly? What is the root cause for someone becoming a misfit? Why does one person become a misfit but not another? Is there a definable cause, or is it something beyond words and logic?

[Ginger]

[Winston]

If most people feel the same way, then how come no one else is complaining about it except me? I see friends and couples everywhere. When I hear social groups talk, they are always positive, lighthearted, and politically correct. No one is complaining about feeling socially deprived or miserable except me. What this means is that if you feel miserable, you aren't allowed to talk about it, because you are only allowed to say positive/lighthearted things in the company of others.

This is especially true in Taiwan, where any negative remark gets you ostracized. The social taboo against being negative, truthful or too honest is very strong here. Young people here avoid anyone who talks negative. Ostracization here is quick and immediate, esp if your personality doesn't fit in. Yet the nation must be miserable because of the high suicide rate here, and personally I sense a vibe of misery in Taiwan that is very soul sucking. I don't know if it's just my imagination or if I am self-projecting or if there is indeed some negative energy vortex here. But I definitely feel it, and it is horrible. It's exactly the kind of miserable energy vortex that I felt in Seattle. I know it very well. Since we can't see radio waves, TV waves, and internet wifi waves, who knows what could be around us. But I firmly believe that vibes do exist, not only around people, but around places too.

What is the reason why above average intelligence people do not fit into most social groups?

[Ginger]

[Winston]

But Ginger, you grew up in the Philippines right? Filipinos have a reputation for being the most inclusive and nonjudgmental of Asians. And in my experience, this is true. That's why many Western misfits feel better there.

If you were a misfit in the US, oh man, you haven't seen nothing yet. The US has psychological persecution beyond what you can imagine. It leads to mental break downs and neuroses.

Did you have a lot of friends in school? How do middle class Filipinos treat you? Do you feel accepted in the Philippines? Why or why not?

[lavezzi]

Winston, people have a deep rooted sense of insecurity which makes them overdependent on socializing. the majority of people are this way so it is taken as the normal and only way but it is not. once you are awakened you lose the possibility to experience loneliness as it is really just the false self seeking fulfilment in the future. you feel connected to the whole of existene so there is no need for human connection. what i have seen from my time here on this forum is that you are a very honest and authentic person, that is the single most important aspect for seeking spiritual truth. just dedicate every second of your time and every bit of your energy to experiencing awakening, if you want it badly you will find it. then you will be moving towards conciousness, your authentic self, and not deeper into unconciousness which is all you can do while unawakened and not searching for truth.

[Winston]

Winston, people have a deep rooted sense of insecurity which makes them overdependent on socializing. the majority of people are this way so it is taken as the normal and only way but it is not. once you are awakened you lose the possibility to experience loneliness as it is really just the false self seeking fulfilment in the future. you feel connected to the whole of existene so there is no need for human connection. what i have seen from my time here on this forum is that you are a very honest and authentic person, that is the single most important aspect for seeking spiritual truth. just dedicate every second of your time and every bit of your energy to experiencing awakening, if you want it badly you will find it. then you will be moving towards conciousness, your authentic self, and not deeper into unconciousness which is all you can do while unawakened and not searching for truth.

I agree with you, but isn't the need to belong with others and be with them and share happiness with others, something innate in humans? Can you really deny it or suppress it or liberate yourself from it?

Btw, none of this answers the questions in my OP. :P

[lavezzi]

Winston, people have a deep rooted sense of insecurity which makes them overdependent on socializing. the majority of people are this way so it is taken as the normal and only way but it is not. once you are awakened you lose the possibility to experience loneliness as it is really just the false self seeking fulfilment in the future. you feel connected to the whole of existene so there is no need for human connection. what i have seen from my time here on this forum is that you are a very honest and authentic person, that is the single most important aspect for seeking spiritual truth. just dedicate every second of your time and every bit of your energy to experiencing awakening, if you want it badly you will find it. then you will be moving towards conciousness, your authentic self, and not deeper into unconciousness which is all you can do while unawakened and not searching for truth.

I agree with you, but isn't the need to belong with others and be with them and share happiness with others, something innate in humans? Can you really deny it or suppress it or liberate yourself from it?

Btw, none of this answers the questions in my OP.

these desires are driven by ego and animal instincts within the unconcious mind and have no bearing on the concious mind when liberated. the joy of experiencing human connection is still there but the mind no longer tricks you into beleiving its a need. if you woke up and discovered you were to spend the rest of your life on a desert island you would not create any negativity around it as the mind now works with you rather than against. real happiness can only com from perceiving thing as they truly are in the moment . if we examine superficial happiness, which the people of the world are all seeking, theyare looking for happiness from subjective perceptions in various future moments. if you want money, you never grasp it, only the idea of it. if you want validation from others they cant give it to you, you can only imagine you have it when you think they have given their approval. its never ending because you are chasing something illusory, living for a moment that never comes.to awaken youve just got to see the process for what it is and stop giving the mind your attention, simple as that.

[Jester]

Hi all,
Since I'm in the lonely miserable environment of Taiwan, where I can't possibly fit in anywhere or vibe with people...

Some places are black holes for a particular person. Check your birthtime and place and have an astrologer draw up natal charts. There are spots on the earth where it will be much easier to have romantic success based on that.

1. Why have I always had trouble fitting into most social groups...

...did I do wrong to deserve this?...

...Could it be something intangible?

...Am I missing something?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

You need to turn off the thoughts in your head, tell your brain to shut up (literally), and experience where you are and who you are with. Listen when others talk, and absorb their feeling without forming an answer, or a response, or a judgement. Do not analyze what the say.

Practice this all day long every day for a week.

In order to keep your mind from talking, you can engage in physical activity, dance, meditation, sports, performing, playing with children, etc. Also playing with people in silly conversation and games.

You will find that when you are dancing, and you start thinking, you will screw up the dance.

You have to learn to feel people, not just exchange thoughts.

Like many thinkers, you are like a lobster, with one huge claw, overdeveloped and easy to use.

Now you have to develop the other part of the brain, the intuition and taking-in-your-surroundings part.

I am speaking from experience here, Winston. My Dad was a top scientist, and I went to college at age 11, if that gives you an idea of my background. At the same time, my Dad encouraged martial arts, not all bad, and also scouting, which got me out in nature. So it's not like I was a total bookworm. But I did grow up in a fairly cerebral environment, and I still have to work to connect. And the more I do what I told you to do, the better life is.

Is the astrology stuff very important? NO, not compared to the mental stuff.

[WorldTraveler]

Winston, this question is dear to my heart. I can't speak for Taiwan, but I can for the USA. I'm going to make my answer as simple as possible. Most guys and girls have a "stick up their ass"! They are not happy with their lives. They cannot relax. They cannot be themselves. I went to a social group the other night, where I been to two prior socials with the same group. I talked to 3 people: 2 girls and one guy that were all unfriendly that had been friendly in the past. One of the girls, I had taken out on a date since meeting her. She was a nice looking dentist about 28 who was boring as hell and never went out with me again. The other girl was not friendly. The other guy, the previous two months had been the one pushing for us to go out and do the town, but he was cold as ice this time.

Winston, there is nothing wrong with you. People are insecure and way too uptight. Unfortunately it is very hard to find any decent fun people! I would like to make more friends but most people are just too insecure and jealous of other people to be friendly!

[momopi]

If you're not happy in TW, why are you still in TW?

Where are you on your task list from Sept?
viewtopic.php?p=97321&highlight=#97321

[Billy]

i think jester is right. your to much focused on your brain. the trick is to find natural ways to feel good. nature has programmed us for example to like music and dance. but in civilazation we almost forgot these things. you have to practice some art. as you train yourself you will get dopamin and you will feel happier. i think partly because nature "wants" that you practice skills which might give you an upper hand in the dating market. that´s one reason why for example many blacks didn´t give up their "natural desires" like music and dancing.

social guys mostly accept the "laws" of society. as we at HA are "outlaws" we have to find our way.

[momopi]

Winston thinks too much and is prone to scope creep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep). First he wants A, then he adds B, then before he gets either, he adds C and spend too much time complaining about not getting A/B/C, then when he debate about it online, he adds D/E/F/G to the list of conditions that must be meet to be "happy".

Example: If you go to country X because you like the skirt there, you should go there to look at the skirts and not the dirty public toilets. But if you add "clean toilets", "clean streets", "first world infrastructure", "first world quality food", "easy women", "friendly women", "flirty women", "women who'd sleep with you on first date", etc., to the list, then you yourself is the problem that's making you unhappy.

[Disillusioned_American]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I was never accepted by any middle class social groups in the US either.

I grew up in a small New England town where I was persecuted by the local yokels because my family didn't have roots that went back at least four generations in the little hick town. I am and was a good looking, tall, personable (perhaps a tad shy), polite young man, and also a white guy growing up in a 99% white town

I am also a deep thinker like you, and maybe that has something to do with it. I seemed to have attracted many mean-spirited, arrogant, and hateful asshole types who tormented me when I was an adolescent. I learned to stand up for myself later, but still would never be accepted into any peer social groups. I no longer give a flying f*ck about being "accepted."

[davewe]

Hi all,
Since I'm in the lonely miserable environment of Taiwan, where I can't possibly fit in anywhere or vibe with people, and where I have no synergy/compatibility/chemistry with anything, I'm getting depressed and feeling the misery, so I can't help but wonder about some things that I can't figure out and am banging my head over about. Can anyone provide any insight or answers to the following questions?

Winston - you wrote a lengthy diatribe but honestly, your first sentence says it all. "I'm in the lonely, miserable environment of Taiwan."

Now whether Taiwan is the terrible place you describe or not - that is irrelevant. You think it is! You are unlikely to attract happiness when you are in a circumstance that you believe is fundamentally miserable. Your options are two: move to an environment you like; or change your perception of your current environment. There are no other solutions.

I would also contend that whether or not your issues are tied into your intellectual nature is also irrelevant. Yes it is true that smarter, thoughful people often brood and overanalyze, but it doesn't matter. Unhappy people rarely draw happiness and success toward them. Conversely in my experience, going to an environment you really like creates more happiness. People can sense your enthusiasm and are drawn to it.

I hate to beat a dead horse here since we so often talk about it, but I will use PI as an example. Think of the guys who go there, love the women, love the attitudes, love the culture - and have a fabulous time. Now think of the guys who think the girls are unattractive, hate the people, hate the food, etc. What happens to them? Nothing good - that's for sure.

So it's up to you. Find a place you are enthused about or create enthusiasm about the place you are currently in. You can do it!