If You Love America, You're Not A True Conservative

[Outcast9428]

Honestly, the longer I live in this country, the more sickened I feel by the state of modern, American conservatism. I am sick of hearing Republicans on Fox News spouting off liberal values and acting like those are conservative, "right-wing" values. The more time goes on, the further away from true conservatism the Republican Party moves. At this point, the Republican party has more liberals supporting it then true traditionalists.

And I'm sickened to hear so called "conservatives" acting as though America is still a great country. Why the f**k should I, as a true conservative, be proud of current day American culture? American culture glorifies selfishness, immorality, degeneracy, lust for power and money, irresponsible behavior, immaturity, and glorifies people who prioritize short term gratification over long term stability.

The root of conservatism is supposed to be about glorifying God and the family structure. Its supposed to be about creating order, structure, and stability. The goal of conservative ideology is to create a society where we crush vice and crime, marry young, and go on to create stable marriages and families. What institutions in America try to help people achieve that goal anymore? From what I see, every institution of this country is working to make that goal as difficult to achieve as humanely possible. Any movement in the direction of that goal is seen as a step backward by the people in this country. The Democrats even want to start creating universal pre-K daycare facilities, and they intentionally want to charge married women more money for daycare then single women.

So on one hand, you've got the Democrats who are evil and actively working to rot away anything left in America that makes life remotely bearable, and then you've got the Republicans who's entire ideology has been hijacked by libertarianism who's philosophy is basically to do nothing no matter what happens because "government is bad!" so now we can't do anything to actually fix this goddamn country because the American conservative movement is completely handcuffed and hijacked by libertarianism who is trying their darndest to make sure that the American people forget that conservatism ever used to represent anything other then individualism and "government sucks!"

And its so frustrating talking to my mainstream conservative father because he just doesn't get how bad the country has become. He still thinks "freedom" matters more then anything. I can tell him story after story of how immoral and degenerate people become and he just goes "I don't care what people do with their own lives, I just want to be left alone." I'm so sick of people acting like you can just isolate yourself from the culture around you and that other people's behavior has no effect on your life.

I told him, every person who behaves in a degenerate manner sets a bad example to everyone around them, and other people become degenerates who would not have otherwise done that due to the example set by people who publicly behave in a degenerate manner. Every time I meet true traditional girls... Girls who still believe in good values, who still believe in love, marriage, and romance, who still believe that marriage is about two souls becoming one, who value morals in a man instead of how "exciting" he is. When I meet sweet, nurturing girls who truly believe in romance, I am reminded that whatever we have to do is worth doing to preserve that way of thinking, to preserve that way of life, so that girls like that continue to exist in this world.

But I'm losing faith that any girls like that will continue to exist past my generation because stupid mainstream conservatives do nothing but rattle on about "freedom freedom freedom!" When it is American culture's obsession with "freedom" that got us into this mess to begin with. Liberals promoted sexual degeneracy under the banner of freedom, feminism turned the majority of women in this country into man hating monsters under the banner of freedom, countless marriages and families have been destroyed because of individuals caring about their personal freedom more then the lives of their children, our cities and streets have been turned into crime and rat infested hellholes under the banner of freedom.

Freedom destroyed this country. I am sick of people pretending otherwise. Freedom is what created a population of perpetual children with no discipline who took over the institutions of our country and brainwashed every following generation into thinking that the glorification of short term pleasures over long term pleasures was somehow an enlightened way of thinking. The only thing that is gonna save this country is old fashioned authoritarian traditionalism. We need to ban no fault divorce, if a man seduces your wife, he should be forced to hand over half of his financial assets to you. Men who cheat on their wives should be forced to hand over half of their financial assets to their wife and she should be allowed to remarry while he is labeled as an adulterer for the rest of his life. Women who commit adultery will be divorced and not receive a single penny from their former husband and he will receive all custody rights while she is labeled as an adulterer for the rest of her life. Dating apps need to be banned, abortion needs to be banned, BDSM and any other acts of violence committed during sex should be criminalized and prosecutable, public schools need to teach traditional values, and teach kids exactly why degeneracy will ruin their lives.

The government, our schools, our movies, music, and TV shows need to promote regeneration and regrowth. And yes, for f**k's sake, people need to be taught what to think because ultimately, most people are sheep and cannot think for themselves. You don't need anymore proof of this point of view being correct then remembering what we saw happen to everybody over the course of this pandemic.

[fschmidt]

This problem is global. America was lost at least 20 years ago. But the whole world has submitted to covid insanity showing that humanity as a whole has gone insane. So "happier abroad" is no longer the simple solution. Here are some places where this problem is discussed:

https://saidit.net/s/ConservativeExodus/
https://saidit.net/s/nonmorons/

[flowerthief00]

When freedom crosses the line into freedom from consequence (i.e. you can commit adultery and still receive payments from your spouse) it becomes a twisted perversion of freedom that liberatarians would not be on board with. That said, there are a lot of LINO's these days.

Half of your list of grievances is this sort of thing, no? Another example would be the quick release from prison of convicted rioters, or the governors who begged the federal gov for money to rebuild their city after having idly allowed rioters to destroy it. A society can't last long that allows this manner of behavior to go on.

So I can agree with some of these items even while I disagree strongly that freedom (WITH consequence) is to blame.

You really want authoritarianism that bad? Well you're getting it. Look at the censorship and the vaccine mandates. The authoritarians are winning.

[MrMan]

When freedom crosses the line into freedom from consequence (i.e. you can commit adultery and still receive payments from your spouse) it becomes a twisted perversion of freedom that liberatarians would not be on board with. That said, there are a lot of LINO's these days.

I think of libertarians as liberals/libertines when it comes to sex and killing babies in the womb, but hyperconservative on issues related to government spending, taxes, etc.

[MrMan]

The root of conservatism is supposed to be about glorifying God and the family structure. Its supposed to be about creating order, structure, and stability. The goal of conservative ideology is to create a society where we crush vice and crime, marry young, and go on to create stable marriages and families. What institutions in America try to help people achieve that goal anymore? From what I see, every institution of this country is working to make that goal as difficult to achieve as humanely possible. Any movement in the direction of that goal is seen as a step backward by the people in this country. The Democrats even want to start creating universal pre-K daycare facilities, and they intentionally want to charge married women more money for daycare then single women.

So on one hand, you've got the Democrats who are evil and actively working to rot away anything left in America that makes life remotely bearable, and then you've got the Republicans who's entire ideology has been hijacked by libertarianism who's philosophy is basically to do nothing no matter what happens because "government is bad!" so now we can't do anything to actually fix this goddamn country because the American conservative movement is completely handcuffed and hijacked by libertarianism who is trying their darndest to make sure that the American people forget that conservatism ever used to represent anything other then individualism and "government sucks!"

And its so frustrating talking to my mainstream conservative father because he just doesn't get how bad the country has become. He still thinks "freedom" matters more then anything. I can tell him story after story of how immoral and degenerate people become and he just goes "I don't care what people do with their own lives, I just want to be left alone." I'm so sick of people acting like you can just isolate yourself from the culture around you and that other people's behavior has no effect on your life.

A lot of people think what other people do in their private lives does not effect us. But when you have a society full of perverts combined with forced public education of the young, then you end up with perverts teaching bad values to your children.

I told him, every person who behaves in a degenerate manner sets a bad example to everyone around them, and other people become degenerates who would not have otherwise done that due to the example set by people who publicly behave in a degenerate manner. Every time I meet true traditional girls... Girls who still believe in good values, who still believe in love, marriage, and romance, who still believe that marriage is about two souls becoming one, who value morals in a man instead of how "exciting" he is. When I meet sweet, nurturing girls who truly believe in romance, I am reminded that whatever we have to do is worth doing to preserve that way of thinking, to preserve that way of life, so that girls like that continue to exist in this world.

But I'm losing faith that any girls like that will continue to exist past my generation because stupid mainstream conservatives do nothing but rattle on about "freedom freedom freedom!" When it is American culture's obsession with "freedom" that got us into this mess to begin with. Liberals promoted sexual degeneracy under the banner of freedom, feminism turned the majority of women in this country into man hating monsters under the banner of freedom, countless marriages and families have been destroyed because of individuals caring about their personal freedom more then the lives of their children, our cities and streets have been turned into crime and rat infested hellholes under the banner of freedom.

Americans are obsessed with freedom and mention it in relation to topics that have nothing to do with freedom at all. Our invading Iraq is somehow supposed to be about our defending our 'freedom'. I don't see the connection. Our military dominates another land. Is a subjugated land free? How did that war that affect freedoms in the US?

For the girls, maybe you can find some religious girls who do not watch TV or go to public school-- girls raised in home school by decent parents. The Amish generally do not have TVs.

We need to ban no fault divorce, if a man seduces your wife, he should be forced to hand over half of his financial assets to you. Men who cheat on their wives should be forced to hand over half of their financial assets to their wife and she should be allowed to remarry while he is labeled as an adulterer for the rest of his life. Women who commit adultery will be divorced and not receive a single penny from their former husband and he will receive all custody rights while she is labeled as an adulterer for the rest of her life.

Those are light consequences. If you want to go really old school authoritarian, how about a death penalty for adultery?

Dating apps need to be banned, abortion needs to be banned,

Dating apps do not have to be used for fornication. Killing babies is much worse.

BDSM and any other acts of violence committed during sex should be criminalized and prosecutable,

Aren't they already covered under assault. If a man spanks a woman as a sexual thing, they can keep that a secret. But I heard about some woman who covered a guy with latex and suffocated him, and they were trying her for manslaughter or murder. It was a BDSM thing. I read about a man in Scandinavia who put some kind of piercing chastity belt embedded in his girlfriends you-know-what, then eventually cut a lot of the tender parts off down there. Her relationship with him was some kind of agreed upon BDSM thing, but when he cut the parts off, he was still prosecuted. If someone gets really hurt, the BDSM consensual thing doesn't prevent it from being categorized as assault.

public schools need to teach traditional values, and teach kids exactly why degeneracy will ruin their lives.

They need to. I have been looking into online Christian school.

[flowerthief00]

Actually, the two most prominent libertarians in the US, Ron Paul and Rand Paul, are anti-abortion. For what it's worth, I also come down more on the anti side.

[Cornfed]

Men who cheat on their wives should be forced to hand over half of their financial assets to their wife and she should be allowed to remarry while he is labeled as an adulterer for the rest of his life.

Presumably this display of Marxism/feminism is meant as ironic commentary to demonstrate the point you were making. If not and you are past your mid-teens then you are irredeemably cucked, so please set a good conservative example by hanging yourself.

[Outcast9428]

@MrMan

As far as social issues go, the only thing separating libertarians from liberals is that libertarians don't like political correctness or affirmative action. Otherwise their whole "government should do nothing about degeneracy" philosophy is the same.

I definitely intend to raise my kids without social media.

I don't see how you can think the consequences I proposed are light/mild. The punishments I am suggesting are taken straight out of Medieval law. Don't you think it'd be a pretty large deterrence to adultery if you could potentially lose half of all your financial assets and be unable to remarry again because of having a scarlet A on you all the time (which is based by the way, contrary to what public schools taught us). If the woman committed adultery, she'd literally lose all of her financial assets and have to start over in life from scratch while being unable to remarry.

Executing people is just barbaric though.

I definitely agree that abortion needs to be outlawed.

"Dating apps" should be replaced by actual matchmaking companies instead.

It should be explicitly recognized that BDSM falls under the definition of "assault."

@Cornfed

If you want sweet, traditionally feminine girls then you need to live by a code of honor and chivalry yourself. You must remain faithful to one woman. Of course, chivalry will not be extended to women who do not behave like ladies. If a guy goes to a brothel because his wife is a bitch on wheels, we can talk about giving an exception and annulling the marriage. However, cheating on a genuinely good woman because you were bored is unforgiveable.

[Cornfed]

@Cornfed

If you want sweet, traditionally feminine girls then you need to live by a code of honor and chivalry yourself. You must remain faithful to one woman.

No, I don't because I am a man and men are not expected to live by identical standards to females. Such is not the traditional position nor is it one females expect. In fact, this androgynous tranny thinking is repellant to all concerned. Disgusting. Stop calling yourself a conservative.

[MrMan]

I don't see how you can think the consequences I proposed are light/mild. The punishments I am suggesting are taken straight out of Medieval law. Don't you think it'd be a pretty large deterrence to adultery if you could potentially lose half of all your financial assets and be unable to remarry again because of having a scarlet A on you all the time (which is based by the way, contrary to what public schools taught us). If the woman committed adultery, she'd literally lose all of her financial assets and have to start over in life from scratch while being unable to remarry.

Sure, I am not sure about medieval law. There was a historical basis of law from Rome and Justinian and church cannon law, but Europe was made up of somewhat diverse kingdoms also. I have read that the death penalty did occur in some parts of Europe for women during that time.

I don't have a problem with the state putting adulterers to death-- involving sex with a married women-- if there are at least two eye witnesses, as long as those doing so are just and not just trumping up some charges. That is rare. In less clear cases, splitting assets in favor of the victim is better.

As I recall, the scarlet A in the story was the punishment because the woman was pregnant and they did not want to kill the baby, so they sentenced her to wear the scarlet letter.

Executing people is just barbaric though.

Isn't adultery barbaric. Execution was the penalty for adultery in the Old Testament, if there were two or three witnesses. But most people don't commit adultery on the street, so having witnesses would be rare.

It should be explicitly recognized that BDSM falls under the definition of "assault."

I suppose it depends on what it is. If a wife likes her own husband to tie her up with silk scarves, is that really immoral or detrimental to society? Even if she liked to be spanked without going too crazy, do you really want to intrude into that? They can just outlaw a woman doing that to a man. What if she likes to have her hair pulled a little, or likes to be pushed onto the bed. Where do you want to draw the line? Do you want to draw the line? Common law about assault is along the lines of one person touching another in a way not sanctioned by society. Keeping it a little vague allows for freedom.

I am concerned the state may overlegislate some of the college-anti-rape stuff into law. In the past, there was legally no marital rape. Now there is. If you read or listen to some people on the subject, if a woman has sex, but she didn't really want to, and her man talked her into it, that's rape. And of course, consent has to be super explicit. They tell guys to check with a girl as they touch them more and more intimately. "May I have your permission to put my hand on your buttocks."--- and vice versa with the men I suppose. In marriage, asking permission to touch each other is a stupid requirement. Imagine applying all those rules to a marriage. There was a politician who was on trial for having sex with his own wife who had Alzheimers some hears back. Alzheimer's victims can actually be lucid at times. But lucid or not, if it was her own husband, and she were willing, no matter her state of mind, what's wrong with that? A lot of men, if they were in a coma, might want their wife to give them a little action and keep their bodies in shape. They say some people who come out of comas remember people talking to them, so they might remember that, too.

Keeping some of this stuff vague and ill-defined, allowing for some individual freedom-- certainly in marriage-- is in all of our best interest.

[Outcast9428]

@Cornfed

Whatever, the brothels will be open for you. Nobody’s stopping you but don’t blame anyone except yourself if you’re previously sweet wife starts resenting you and no longer respects you because you thought it was manly to cheat on her.

@MrMan

Yes adultery is barbaric, but I think the punishment I proposed is severe enough to act as a strong deterrence. If I walked into a state committee of Republicans they’d probably think I was an extremist for proposing what I did in this thread.

I think tying a girl up with silk is mostly okay but not spanking or hair pulling. And yes it’s stupid to have to ask your wife permission to touch her.

[Cornfed]

@Cornfed

Whatever, the brothels will be open for you. Nobody’s stopping you but don’t blame anyone except yourself if you’re previously sweet wife starts resenting you and no longer respects you because you thought it was manly to cheat on her.

The fact that you choose to use loaded feminist terms to describe perfectly historically normal behavior shows that you wouldn't know conservatism if it left up and bit you. You are what is wrong with America.

[Outcast9428]

@Cornfed

Whatever, the brothels will be open for you. Nobody’s stopping you but don’t blame anyone except yourself if you’re previously sweet wife starts resenting you and no longer respects you because you thought it was manly to cheat on her.

The fact that you choose to use loaded feminist terms to describe perfectly historically normal behavior shows that you wouldn't know conservatism if it left up and bit you. You are what is wrong with America.

What you describe is not historically normal. Faithfulness has always been a prized virtue in both men and women. I have no idea what you think were feminist terms but nothing I am saying is feminist. Feminism is in favor of promoting adultery.

Men are meant to be a leader to their woman. You are supposed to be teaching her good values, and setting an example through your own behavior. Women don't learn it on their own, they model after the behavior of the most important man in their life. The first one being her father, and the second being her boyfriend/husband.

When a woman's boyfriend/husband has no virtue, she won't have any virtue either. Women need men because without men, women have no direction in life, no guidance, and they easily fall off the wagon due to making poor decisions as a result of their emotional wiring. This is why men need to be the leader. What kind of example are you setting to your wife when you f**k other women and make excuses for it? You're telling her that its okay to f**k other people if you get bored instead of trying to figure out how your wife can satisfy you better. What goes around comes around and eventually she will follow your example.

A woman is a responsibility, quite frankly, you sound more feminist then I do because feminists and liberals are the ones who've been talking about women's independence and that everybody should just be allowed to do whatever they want. This is utter nonsense. Men and women need each other. And while having a woman in your life is a big responsibility, nothing else in life brings more joy.

[Cornfed]

Men are meant to be a leader to their woman. You are supposed to be teaching her good values, and setting an example through your own behavior. Women don't learn it on their own, they model after the behavior of the most important man in their life. The first one being her father, and the second being her boyfriend/husband.

So you are essentially saying men and females should have identical gender roles. In normal societies people have strictly defined gender roles and what is virtuous for men is often disgracefully for females and vice versa, but you are so steeped in the cancer of feminism that just like a fish doesn't know it is in water you don't even see it. Stop calling yourself a conservative if you want to promote feminist crap.

[Outcast9428]

Men are meant to be a leader to their woman. You are supposed to be teaching her good values, and setting an example through your own behavior. Women don't learn it on their own, they model after the behavior of the most important man in their life. The first one being her father, and the second being her boyfriend/husband.

So you are essentially saying men and females should have identical gender roles. In normal societies people have strictly defined gender roles and what is virtuous for men is often disgracefully for females and vice versa, but you are so steeped in the cancer of feminism that just like a fish doesn't know it is in water you don't even see it. Stop calling yourself a conservative if you want to promote feminist crap.

Where the f**k did you get identical gender roles from that? I strongly believe that women’s role in life should be in the home, making her husband and children happy. Conservative ideology has always been about strict moral conduct, that’s a big part of conservative ideology you don’t seem to have absorbed despite how based you are in other areas.