There are no good jobs...

[Cornfed]

I've got a client who is an exec for Cummins Corp. He'll swing over to my office for an occasional visit. He is saying they can't find enough quality diesel mechanics. He said you won't get rich doing it, but it's a solid $50K a year position. Problem is that today's youth tend to soft, lazy and afraid to roll up their sleeves and get a bit dirty. My guess is that there is a shortage of plumbers, pipe fitters....pretty much anything in the blue collar trade crafts

^^^THIS
To top it off, they don't want to be 'deprived' of the latest car, tablet, phone...

Bullshit. If the timber mill here wanted any number of workers to do backbreaking 12 hour shifts for near minimum wage, they would get them in a heartbeat. If anything, young men are prepared to work too hard. I know of meatworks where they had to prohibit men from working double shifts, because they were wrecking their bodies by working too long hours. Where have you got this idea that young men are lazy? Where is the evidence? There is no mystery why so many men are out of work. Their jobs were automated, outsourced, came to a completion or as a culture we are no longer capable of sustaining them.

[droid]

Bullshit...

I've always been ass-busting busy; house painting, body-shop, computer programming, etc, etc. That's my evidence.
If you're willing to adapt, learn, and show up to offer your services at a realistic price, and being pot-free, they'll take you in.

I often hear of people complaining "ohh, but that's not my area..", "that's not what I majored in", etc, or demanding union-level wages/benefits which are unsustainable.
Maybe I've dealt more with hipster types than you have I guess.

I'm just saying you seem to see the cup very half-empty when it comes to this subject.

As an aside, one thing younger people sometimes don't see is that a few months of idleness will set back their numbers in a nasty way. It's better to work on a lesser job temporarily, while learning something, and not fall behind monetarily.

Their jobs were automated, outsourced, came to a completion or as a culture we are no longer capable of sustaining them

Again, if that was the case, I think prices should be a lot lower, and we should all be working less hours, with full employment.
I think it's instead more related to the financial sector racket and the 'bust' credit contractions.

[Maverick]

There are no good jobs for college graduates. What would you recommend for young men who have a bachelor's degree that can't find even a good job or even decent paying job.

The largest category of jobs in America are minimum wage jobs
Then the second largest category are for people with 5+ years of experience
The next grouping is composed of science or tech fields which includes: programmers, medical fields, nurses, or engineers, etc
Then there are teachers or jobs mainly for women
Then there are sales jobs (many are low paying and highly commission based. This isn't secure or stable)
Then there are accounting jobs (one of the most boring jobs in the world. Invent a tax code and enforce it, therefore every business whether it's a public corporation or not needs an account)
Then there is a small category of decent paying jobs for people with little or no experience, and with a decent pay relative to the cost of living in a given geographical area. (even those usually require a mandatory 1-4 years of experience or specialty experience. In my situation there are not many jobs in the fields of business). The odds of getting a good job or even a decent job are like winning one of the smaller lottery prizes (maybe a 1 in 100 or 1 in 500 chance)

Then there's the American military that fights unjust wars and are used as cannonfodder for the plutocrats, oligarchs, kleptocrats, fascists, top 1%, and to defend the corporations and Israel. Lose their life or return home dismembered or mentally scarred with PTSD.

The minimum wage should become $15/hour if most jobs are going to be minimum wage and the government should give everyone ages 21-60 $25,000 per year as a living allowance.

There will never be an economic recovery when the government keeps bailing out the banks, supporting the elites and corporations, and destroying the people by creating a 21st century serfdom. Wall Street artificially keeps food prices and energy prices high because they're very parasitic. America is a nation of serfs and slaves. America should be called a beggar nation with the amount of people unemployed, underemployed, working minimum wage jobs because that's the only thing they could get, or because they're on unemployment. America is a beggar nation.

What do you recommend that young men in that situation do? How do you recommend they begin to earn money?

As a current member of the military, I recommend against this path.

[Cornfed]

Bullshit...

I've always been a**-busting busy; house painting, body-shop, computer programming, etc, etc. That's my evidence.

There is work for you personally, therefore there must be work for everyone? That argument is simply retarded.

If you're willing to adapt, learn, and show up to offer your services at a realistic price, and being pot-free, they'll take you in.

Why would "they" take you in when they already have more than enough workers? Of the very fit, competent, hardworking guys I worked with a couple of years ago who were laid off when more machinery was installed in the mill, some are still unemployed. Why should they not be? There is no reason jobs should just magically appear just because capable workers exist.

Their jobs were automated, outsourced, came to a completion or as a culture we are no longer capable of sustaining them

Again, if that was the case, I think prices should be a lot lower, and we should all be working less hours, with full employment.

Yes, this should be the case. It is just that the system is set up so that this can't happen.

[droid]

You're overlooking my points. Again, I've always found something to do...
Even the electrician wanted to hire me a few months ago since I lent him quite a useful hand. LMAO he didn't know i made more than him.

Of the very fit, competent, hardworking guys I worked with a couple of years ago who were laid off when more machinery was installed in the mill, some are still unemployed.

That's what I'm talking about. I understand going a few months idle, but hearing of people going whole years with nothing?
What have they tried? Are they willing to do something else other than their specialty? relocation?
Are they willing to earn less in other jobs?

Not to justify TPB, but numerically speaking, these guys should eventually under-price other workers and take their spot, at least temporarily, moving things around (even if the unemployment rate remains the same). But the same particular dude going for years, with nothing?

[Cornfed]

That's what I'm talking about. I understand going a few months idle, but hearing of people going whole years with nothing?
What have they tried? Are they willing to do something else other than their specialty? relocation?
Are they willing to earn less in other jobs?

You don't seem to get the situation. They were already working for some of the worst pay and conditions of any legal workers in the post-war history of the Western world, so there is not far to go in terms of a race to the bottom. As to relocating, unless you mean off the planet there are not many places that don't have a surplus of workers, and those don’t generally allow outsiders to come in and take their jobs. It is just a case of their not being needed. And it is generally useful workers like them who are not needed. If you are employed because you are a productive worker, you will be fired as soon as a machine or someone in Asia is more productive. If you are employed because you are some dyke filling an affirmative action quota or someone’s nephew or whatever, then you are safe.

[pete98146]

I've got a client who is an exec for Cummins Corp. He'll swing over to my office for an occasional visit. He is saying they can't find enough quality diesel mechanics. He said you won't get rich doing it, but it's a solid $50K a year position. Problem is that today's youth tend to soft, lazy and afraid to roll up their sleeves and get a bit dirty. My guess is that there is a shortage of plumbers, pipe fitters....pretty much anything in the blue collar trade crafts

^^^THIS
To top it off, they don't want to be 'deprived' of the latest car, tablet, phone...

Bullshit. If the timber mill here wanted any number of workers to do backbreaking 12 hour shifts for near minimum wage, they would get them in a heartbeat. If anything, young men are prepared to work too hard. I know of meatworks where they had to prohibit men from working double shifts, because they were wrecking their bodies by working too long hours. Where have you got this idea that young men are lazy? Where is the evidence? There is no mystery why so many men are out of work. Their jobs were automated, outsourced, came to a completion or as a culture we are no longer capable of sustaining them.

Sorry I don't buy it bro! I'm a big believer in YOU are responsible for pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. There are quality jobs out there but nobody will come knocking on your door to offer you a job. You get the training and you move to an area where jobs are available.

Here's a great Mike Rowe video that discussing this issue in length.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

[Cornfed]

Sorry I don't buy it bro! I'm a big believer in YOU are responsible for pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

Such a belief is incredibly stupid. The reality is that the current economy is essentially Soviet style communism, with most resources under the control of a few corporate entities. If you want to work with those resources, you need their permission, and they will hire the number of workers they want based on whatever criteria they want. If they don't want to hire you for whatever reason, then most likely you can't have a job. Moreover, many jobs could not be done outside that system. If you want to be a scientist or a coal miner, you can't do it with your own basement laboratory or bucket and spade respectively. You need to do so as part of a the corporate system, and if the system people decide they don't want to hire you or don't want to do that activity at all then you are out of luck.

This idea of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps is completely ridiculous. We function as members of a community. The most successful people are successful because they benefit from the most elaborate systems to carry them along. An accomplished surgeon didn't get where he is by "pulling himself up by his own bootstraps". He got there by being passed through a system designed to train him up to that level involving thousands of people that, if he had to pay the true cost of, would have cost millions if it could be done at all. Professional athletes benefit from training and organized competitions from a young age, staffed by volunteers and both publically funded and privately funded professionals. If this were not the case then it would be impossible to produce skilled workers.

You get the training and you move to an area where jobs are available.

Wrapping your head around the issue shouldn't be that hard. If is simply a case of elementary school mathematics. If there are X jobs that are being funded, Y people that want the jobs and Y>X, then Y-X people will not have jobs. To look at it another way, if you take a situation of full employment and then add lots of potential employees in the form of females who were previously housewives and third worlders who were previously peasants, and then subtract a bunch of jobs due to automation, global rationalization of jobs and such, then you don't still have a situation of full employment. If you can’t even see that then an adult guardian should be appointed to handle your affairs.

[Tsar]

[MatureDJ]

Here's a good article about the possible end states of the continued robotization of the economy:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/12/four-futures/

[droid]

Here's a great Mike Rowe video that discussing this issue in length.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

Excellent.

[droid]

That's what I'm talking about. I understand going a few months idle, but hearing of people going whole years with nothing?
What have they tried? Are they willing to do something else other than their specialty? relocation?
Are they willing to earn less in other jobs?

You don't seem to get the situation. They were already working for some of the worst pay and conditions of any legal workers in the post-war history of the Western world, so there is not far to go in terms of a race to the bottom. As to relocating, unless you mean off the planet there are not many places that don't have a surplus of workers, and those don’t generally allow outsiders to come in and take their jobs. It is just a case of their not being needed. And it is generally useful workers like them who are not needed. If you are employed because you are a productive worker, you will be fired as soon as a machine or someone in Asia is more productive. If you are employed because you are some dyke filling an affirmative action quota or someone’s nephew or whatever, then you are safe.

Wrapping your head around the issue shouldn't be that hard. If is simply a case of elementary school mathematics. If there are X jobs that are being funded, Y people that want the jobs and Y>X, then Y-X people will not have jobs. To look at it another way, if you take a situation of full employment and then add lots of potential employees in the form of females who were previously housewives and third worlders who were previously peasants, and then subtract a bunch of jobs due to automation, global rationalization of jobs and such, then you don't still have a situation of full employment. If you can’t even see that then an adult guardian should be appointed to handle your affairs.

So many excuses Cornfed, and you still refuse to answer the questions. What have these guys tried?
No matter what we say, you'll always manage to blame everyone else. It's either automation, the blacks, etc. Anyone but you or those other guys you know from the mill.
You're seeing things too much in black a and white (no pun intended lol). It's always some doomsday stuff like what taco posts.

As I stated before (but which you choose to ignore): Even with a constant, artificial, unemployment rate, people get fired and hired all the time. If after a couple of years you can't occupy one of the musical chairs, at least temporarily, it's on you.
I have a ton of base board that needs to be prepped/ hand-sanded around my house. I offer $12 an hour. Would you or your mates do it if you were here? be truthful. (How about you Tsar?)

To rest my case:
Once again, there is a lot of work required to produce all the stuff you enjoy. Just look around you.
If someone wants to consume some of the stuff others have made, he has to produce other stuff to directly or indirectly give them in exchange. That is the law of man.
If one can't produce said stuff that others want because one lacks talents, is dumb/lazy/narrow-minded/inflexible, then one should starve. People can not be such and yet feel entitled to freely consume others' production via artificial mechanisms.

[Tsar]

I have a ton of base board that needs to be prepped/ hand-sanded around my house. I offer $12 an hour. Would you or your mates do it if you were here? be truthful. (How about you Tsar?).

I would be willing to hand-sand wooden baseboard for $12/hour. I would be willing to do odd-jobs like that to earn cash. The problem is that I can't find jobs like that or I don't know where to look.

The only catch would be I would want it in cash and I would want to do it under-the-table. That would allow people to evade taxes and not pay the IRS. That would give the person more money compared to if they were paying taxes.

Some people would find that catch acceptable but some people wouldn't.

[Cornfed]

So many excuses Cornfed

Excuses for what exactly? Unemployment is a has been a feature of just about every country on Earth for decades and has been a feature of every advanced society in history – Rome, Babylon etc. even before the internal combustion engine. After all this time it should be possible for even the stupidest among us to pull their heads out of their asses and realize there is a systemic problem here.

What have these guys tried?

How should I know? I'm not their mother. The point is that they were self-starting hard workers who were prepared to do whatever it took to get ahead and were fired through no fault of their own. Hence it is possible for good workers to be unemployed. QED, proof by existence.

I have a ton of base board that needs to be prepped/ hand-sanded around my house. I offer $12 an hour. Would you or your mates do it if you were here? be truthful.

At the time, of course. Why should we not? It is a similar rate for presumably much easier and safer work.

To rest my case:
Once again, there is a lot of work required to produce all the stuff you enjoy. Just look around you.
If someone wants to consume some of the stuff others have made, he has to produce other stuff to directly or indirectly give them in exchange. That is the law of man.
If one can't produce said stuff that others want because one lacks talents, is dumb/lazy/narrow-minded/inflexible, then one should starve.

Clearly you are living in a fantasy world. The people doing the most consuming produce nothing but misery for others. The reason for unemployment is simple. Most resources are under govcorp control, so you can't use them off your own initiative. Govcorp only wants a certain number of workers and that number has decreased over time for the reasons given upthread. It is not rocket science.

[Cornfed]

I would be willing to hand-sand wooden baseboard for $12/hour. I would be willing to do odd-jobs like that to earn cash. The problem is that I can't find jobs like that or I don't know where to look.

The only catch would be I would want it in cash and I would want to do it under-the-table.

That is generally how it is done around here. Under the table cash transactions are the only way that most people can afford to enough for workers to make any kind of living. The men doing the jobs are not generally young guys starting out but rather ex-farmers, underemployed tradesmen and the like who have all the skills and equipment and so can afford to do the jobs for effectively less than the overall true cost. This is why young men really can't get ahead other than through official channels. The nature of the slow financial collapse means you would be competing with experienced workers with skills, equipment and word-of-mouth reputation who often still aren't making any money.

Another example - at one time the town had six large gyms with a population that would support perhaps two. Why? The slow collapse means that people who have previously been making a good living suddenly find themselves out of work. Often they think that it would be nice to start their own business in something they really enjoy, in this case running a gym. Most of them will go broke of course, but it will take them some time to go broke because they are starting from a healthy financial position. In the meantime, they are making it impossible for young men starting out to compete in the market. In general, it is becoming impossible for all but the favored few to earn a living, and it is not for a lack of hard work or initiative. Indeed the more aggressively people are prepared to go after every dollar, the worse they are making their collective condition.