Why do women reject/dump Winston or lose their love for him?

[Winston]

LOL, Winston. You've already dated a ton of women already in China, and have gotten more success from cold-approaches than me (and I can safely say that I'm probably in better physical shape than you). So what are you complaining about? You're doing great!

You've sent me pictures of some pretty attractive girls too, so I think you're doing alright. You're not going to have 100 percent success rate--even if you look Brad Pitt or Daniel Dae Kim, LOL! So, relax. Enjoy the girls, Winston.

I haven't dated that many girls. Just maybe 2 or 3. The first girl was my chatmate and was platonic toward me and then became distant and disinterested, albeit friendly still. The second started out great and perfect, then went 180 all of a sudden. See here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26294&p=221717#p221717 The third was a visa whore who didn't care about me and only wanted to marry me to get a visa to the USA and even admitted that in certain ways.

Yeah I got some numbers with cold approach, so it is possible. But it's streaky and low percentage. And the girls I got numbers from cold approach just talk to me a lot daily and never offer to meet up, even though one of them in unemployed. Go figure.

[Winston]

+1

What Winston wants and what a woman that he is pursuing wants are two totally different things. Until he finds a woman whose goals match his own, he will never be happy or satisfied. I think that Winston has learned that he has to lie in order to make any progress with any woman he pursues. Because if a woman finds out what his true intention or end goal is, she will reject him. Winston's goals and her goals are not the same. They are incompatible, like fire and water. And so he gets rejected, over and over again. Why is this so difficult to understand???

I imagine that what Winston wants is a female version of himself who is a sexy super model who will overlook all of his faults and give him mind blowing sex whenever he wants it with no strings attached. And also entertain him endlessly with her wit, humor and intelligence. And once her beauty fades and the sex becomes routine, it's on to the next woman. Good luck with that, LOL!!!!!

You are exaggerating for humor and creating straw mans. I never said any of those things.

I have similar goals with Chinese women in that I believe in these stages:

1. Dating first and getting to know each other.
2. Becoming boyfriend/girlfriend.
3. Getting engaged and planning a wedding.

I'm ok with that process too. Aren't we all? So how is my goal different from theirs?

You forget that I have bad luck and Murphy's Law and those are factors against me too. Seriously. No joke.

Even Rock will admit that he's seen enough Murphy's Law happen around me to believe that it indeed is a very real phenomenon in my life, even though it's unexplainable by conventional science. So it is definitely real.

Some people are meant to struggle and be unlucky with certain areas of life.

Bill Bixby, the guy who played Incredible Hulk in the 70's, was kind, caring and loyal to all his wives. Yet they constantly left him. So he was plagued with bad luck in relationships and marriages, even though he had good luck in his acting career. So you see, some people are just plagued with curses and bad luck in one area of life.

Also, if you read Greek or Nordic mythology, you will find that "the Gods" will often select people on Earth for their own reasons, to be lucky or unlucky. Some people are chosen to be lucky and blessed, and become great heros, while others are chosen to suffer and strive or even become martyrs and die for a cause. The Gods have their reasons and they are out of your control. Even the Biblical God showed favoritism and dislike as well. He liked some people and disliked others. For example, in Genesis, God liked Abel's offering but rejected Cain's, for some unknown reason. That may be what happens in real life too. It would explain a lot.

Some families are cursed too. For example, Bruce Lee's family and the Kennedy family, show a long string of misfortunes and curses. A ton of evidence, events and examples make this obvious.

[OutWest]

Marriage requires maturity and sacrifice, neither of which you are especially known for.

You are not ready for marriage. You need to get your act together first.

He will never have those qualities and he will never be ready for marriage. Not when he abandons his only child simply so he can chase after his own desires. He has shown, time and time again, that he is unfit for marriage. As a man in his forties with such a dramatic track record with love and relationships, it's about time Winston faces the (perhaps uncomfortable) truth: he is a selfish man lacking all the qualities a stable marriage requires, and he's too old and too deluded to change.

When I asked my late uncle why he never married, he honestly told me that he was too selfish a man to marry.
At least he was realistic.

[steezyy]

I'm going to edit this post, because my original (quoted below) sounds like a bunch of hocus pocus game bullshit that doesn't contain any actionable insight.

Winston, girls don't like you because you're unattractive. If you can't even keep a woman interested for a whole date, how do you expect to keep a woman interested for the duration of a marriage?

The only thing you cannot change directly pertains to attractiveness is your facial structure. Everything else you can control.

Are you in shape?
Do you groom yourself well? (hair)
Are you a sharp dresser?
Is your job cool?
Do you make a lot of money? (regarding jobs, it has to be one or the other, if not both)
How are your social skills?
Do *other people* think you have an interesting personality?

How many of the above did you answer positively?

And don't deny reality. They don't give a shit about your "realm of imagination". They care mostly about looks, money, charm, and status.

[gsjackson]

This woman was into you, then she started testing you (trying to take you manhood piece by piece), and you probably fell into frame. When she bitches, you cannot cave into her bitchiness. Tell her to chill out or just leave. It seems like you just took her pouty shit for the second half of the date(a big turn-off for her), she probably nexted you right then. Being needy and texting her AGAIN, just to do something lame(movie) was icing on the cake. (That was your chance to claim your manhood back & win her back. You failed.)

Always initiate with the intention of sex (i.e. in your bedroom). If you get physical before that, she will feel guilty after doing it most of the time, and that'll ruin all the sexual tension you've been building (all the sexual tension was released when you hooked up and you f***ed up in rebuilding it afterwards).

I tend to agree with this. You beta'd out big time here, probably assuming that she was so desperate that she would never play these games. Once it's clear game's on, you need to read her the Riot Act or send her packing, or both.

[pete98146]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

[Winston]

This woman was into you, then she started testing you (trying to take you manhood piece by piece), and you probably fell into frame. When she bitches, you cannot cave into her bitchiness. Tell her to chill out or just leave. It seems like you just took her pouty shit for the second half of the date(a big turn-off for her), she probably nexted you right then. Being needy and texting her AGAIN, just to do something lame(movie) was icing on the cake. (That was your chance to claim your manhood back & win her back. You failed.)

Always initiate with the intention of sex (i.e. in your bedroom). If you get physical before that, she will feel guilty after doing it most of the time, and that'll ruin all the sexual tension you've been building (all the sexual tension was released when you hooked up and you f***ed up in rebuilding it afterwards).

I tend to agree with this. You beta'd out big time here, probably assuming that she was so desperate that she would never play these games. Once it's clear game's on, you need to read her the Riot Act or send her packing, or both.

How did I beta out? What was I supposed to do? Can you be specific? I simply went with the flow, like when you are on a raft and you go with the flow of the river. In this case, the flow was heating up in my favor. She even agreed to come to my room to see how big it is. lol. So I was going with the flow, not against it. Going with the flow is logical, like following a streak in sports. So what went wrong? Why did she change the flow? That's the question you aren't addressing.

[Winston]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

How do I act with machismo? I am an easygoing, agreeable, soft type, yeah, but aren't most Chinese guys like that? Chinese men get Chinese women. So isn't that normal here? Why should I act like an arrogant Western guy who thinks he's in control of everything? Is that what you suggest? Rather than being agreeable, are you saying I should be argumentative?

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

[davewe]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

Can't speak for China or Chinese men, but you got America wrong. Sure, back a couple generations ago Americans dated first. Social conventions said date first, marry then have sex. But believe me - they couldn't wait to have sex. Thus so many people of that generation married early; there were few 5 year courtships, no one lived together to try it out before marriage. They couldn't wait to get in the sack and since that required marriage, they got married early. My mother married at 19. I'm sure that wasn't because she knew everything about him. It was because they were ready to get busy.

Again I don't know Chinese culture. But if you don't have the girl dreaming of being rammed by you on the 1st date, it's too late; move on to the next. Your goal shouldn't be to get her to believe that you're a deep thinker. Your goal should be to get her to believe that you're a deep screwer

[OutWest]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

Can't speak for China or Chinese men, but you got America wrong. Sure, back a couple generations ago Americans dated first. Social conventions said date first, marry then have sex. But believe me - they couldn't wait to have sex. Thus so many people of that generation married early; there were few 5 year courtships, no one lived together to try it out before marriage. They couldn't wait to get in the sack and since that required marriage, they got married early. My mother married at 19. I'm sure that wasn't because she knew everything about him. It was because they were ready to get busy.

Again I don't know Chinese culture. But if you don't have the girl dreaming of being rammed by you on the 1st date, it's too late; move on to the next. Your goal shouldn't be to get her to believe that you're a deep thinker. Your goal should be to get her to believe that you're a deep screwer

+1. That's just the way it is...

[xiongmao]

Some good comments in this thread but basically it just comes down to women thinking and saying different things. You need to read between the lines. But if you can't do that, just be more alpha.

Once a hot girl thinks you're a beta or maybe gay, that's it.

[pete98146]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

How do I act with machismo? I am an easygoing, agreeable, soft type, yeah, but aren't most Chinese guys like that? Chinese men get Chinese women. So isn't that normal here? Why should I act like an arrogant Western guy who thinks he's in control of everything? Is that what you suggest? Rather than being agreeable, are you saying I should be argumentative?

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

You don't need to be argumentative at all. But there is nothing wrong with acting a little cocky and very self assured. It just sets the tone right away and should keep you out of the dreaded friend zone. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm in your shoes I wouldn't want to act like all of the other Chinese guys. Opposites attract!!! I would play up the fact that you are big balled stud from Bellingham Washington. Hmmmm, a bit different from the local guys she thinks? You bet! There's your angle and your advantage. It sets you apart and makes you interesting in the local girls eyes. Otherwise it just seems like you are fishing without a hook.

You are the master chess player. What happens if you get into a rut and lose a few games in a row. What is your reaction? Do you analyze what you did wrong and try to make some corrections? Probably, right? Dating is just another game. The other guys are right, if you emphasize your masculine side a bit more, women won't run for the nearest exit.

[Devil Dog]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

How do I act with machismo? I am an easygoing, agreeable, soft type, yeah, but aren't most Chinese guys like that? Chinese men get Chinese women. So isn't that normal here? Why should I act like an arrogant Western guy who thinks he's in control of everything? Is that what you suggest? Rather than being agreeable, are you saying I should be argumentative?

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

You don't need to be argumentative at all. But there is nothing wrong with acting a little cocky and very self assured. It just sets the tone right away and should keep you out of the dreaded friend zone. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm in your shoes I wouldn't want to act like all of the other Chinese guys. Opposites attract!!! I would play up the fact that you are big balled stud from Bellingham Washington. Hmmmm, a bit different from the local guys she thinks? You bet! There's your angle and your advantage. It sets you apart and makes you interesting in the local girls eyes. Otherwise it just seems like you are fishing without a hook.

You are the master chess player. What happens if you get into a rut and lose a few games in a row. What is your reaction? Do you analyze what you did wrong and try to make some corrections? Probably, right? Dating is just another game. The other guys are right, if you emphasize your masculine side a bit more, women won't run for the nearest exit.

Exactly. I am not a chess player but I am a poker player. I became an excellent poker player by tracking my results on paper, evaluating my play, identifying "holes" in my game, and fixing those holes. That is how one becomes a good poker player. The person who complains about bad luck is the guy who will never be a good player.

Winston is the guy who can't improve his game. He wants to bitch about bad luck and blame everyone except himself. Improve your game Winston. Otherwise you will continue to lose.

[pete98146]

She's has some good advice and nice assets!

[Moretorque]

All of the above are great comments. Winston, it does appear that you get pushed into the "friend zone" very quickly by these women. Too quickly in fact. Don't take this the wrong way but my guess is that when you finally sit down with these ladies and you start chatting with them, you are coming across like one of their girlfriends ie you are lacking machismo. You need to get across a message within the first 2 minutes that there NO ROOM for her to be your friend. Either she's your lover or you move on. I think you are coming across as soft and agreeable. If she wants that, she can get a lapdog.

The guys that master the art of being macho are the Filipino men. They are short, ugly, don't have a good job but they get women. Why? I think you know the answer!!!! When they go out on a date, they are not there to chit chat like a girl. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's best that you hear it from us. You set this tone early, get some quality banging done and THEN you can show your true colors. But you'll have to check yourself because your mate doesn't have to be your best friend until MUCH MUCH later in the relationship. Something tells me you are trying to enter the "friend zone" immediately and you are succeeding.

Also, in Asia it is expected to be "friends first" before a relationship. That's the culture here. This is not America. Even in America, couples were always friends first in the past before the modern era. You are supposed to get to know each other before becoming a couple. If that's the way it's been done for hundreds of years, then what is wrong with that process? Isn't that what Chinese men do too?

Can't speak for China or Chinese men, but you got America wrong. Sure, back a couple generations ago Americans dated first. Social conventions said date first, marry then have sex. But believe me - they couldn't wait to have sex. Thus so many people of that generation married early; there were few 5 year courtships, no one lived together to try it out before marriage. They couldn't wait to get in the sack and since that required marriage, they got married early. My mother married at 19. I'm sure that wasn't because she knew everything about him. It was because they were ready to get busy.

Again I don't know Chinese culture. But if you don't have the girl dreaming of being rammed by you on the 1st date, it's too late; move on to the next. Your goal shouldn't be to get her to believe that you're a deep thinker. Your goal should be to get her to believe that you're a deep screwer

Yaa but that's the problem for Winston . He has to make them fall in love with his mind because when he drops his trousers the poor gals are horrified and shutter with fear and say there is no way you are going to ram me with that tree.