"You just need to be more confident"

[RickyRetardo]

This line of advice has been plaguing me for most of my life, and by this point, I am just kind of tired of it.

I don't lack confidence. I am a confident guy.

But people keep telling me I need to be more confident, as if that will solve all the problems in my life. It just isn't the case. Unless your problems are directly caused by a lack of confidence, they won't magically go away with confidence.

Confidence doesn't really get rid of most peoples' problems. My feeling is that the shy and under-confident, unassuming, humble handsome guy (not crippled by social phobia) will do better than the confident guy with a poor bone structure and years of wear on his face. People will just tell the less attractive guy that his problem is a lack of confidence, to make themselves feel better--it gives them an "out", so they don't have to admit that they really do notice that some people are less beautiful than others and that this lack of beauty can make life tough. This is only one possible example out of many as to how a lack of confidence is used as a magic excuse for why life isn't good for someone.

What do you think?

[publicduende]

One thing is the kind of "confidence for the sake of confidence" many self-help gurus (including the PUA kinds) advocate. Another is the kind of disciplined confidence that spurs a man to change himself: 1) a lot, 2) visibly, 3) consistently, 4) convincingly and 5) permanently.

A bit like the difference between a fast slimming fad diet, which starves and creates imbalance and only lasts for a few months or a year, and a radical change of eating habits and lifestyle.

Compare and contrast: reading a PUA book or going to one of those ridiculously overpriced "bootcamps" will give a shy and nerdy, not so good looking young guy just enough "confidence" to walk into a bar with a robotic posture and a vocabulary of unnatural, formulaic chat up lines and approach a girl. And (probably) be rejected.

Building real self-confidence means the same guy will learn more about who he is and what he wants in life. Is he really prepared to give up his brainy interests and hobbies which will make his future career fly for a string of expensive nights out? Is he really looking for a one night stand or a good girl who will be with him on a LTR? He will start hitting the gym, building his body, his posture and movements will naturally improve. He might even want to splash some money on an acne treatment or even some minor plastic surgery, if he believes he has defects that unfairly hinder his ability to socialise and date successfully.

Most importantly of all, he will be doing all of this for himself, not in the hope of getting laid by some bar slut, one day.

[fightforlove]

Most people are obsessed with the image of confidence rather than actual confidence. You're most likely already a confident guy, you just need to learn to "play the part" more. Get more deliberate, smile more, learn game, learn extrovert social rituals, think up a few interesting stories from your life and practice articulating them to people.

[Winston]

Yeah I hate hearing that too. It's so cliche and has no substance. In US social culture, confidence means to act fake and artificial, not be genuine or be yourself. The social culture is fake and artificial, so one must develop a fake artificial self to fit in socially.

We are not able to do that for some reason. That's one of the main reasons why we don't fit into America.

This is why down-to-earth people tend to be withdrawn in the US. They can't be themselves. Only older people and senior citizens feel like they can be down-to-earth.

Why is it that when you are around down-to-earth people and women in foreign countries, you can be yourself and have fun socially without trying to be "confident"? That's the key question that confidence junkies can't answer.

We all know that AW have toxic personalities. To vibe with a toxic personality, you gotta become toxic yourself. Perhaps that's what Americans mean by "confidence"?

We have a great post here in the forum about it called "The Myth of Confidence". It's one of the best. Check it out.

viewtopic.php?t=9050

If you type in "myth of confidence" in Google, that thread comes up as the first hit.

[droid]

confidence junkies

Lol haha very appropriate.

Building real self-confidence means the same guy will learn more about who he is and what he wants in life. Is he really prepared to give up his brainy interests and hobbies which will make his future career fly for a string of expensive nights out? Is he really looking for a one night stand or a good girl who will be with him on a LTR? He will start hitting the gym, building his body, his posture and movements will naturally improve. He might even want to splash some money on an acne treatment

One of your best posts duende.
Yeah confidence follows only after you improve yourself and maybe get a bit of feedback.

I've noticed better responses after working out and losing most of my gut and increasing the girth of my neck a bit.
Also spending on new, well-fitting clothes helps a lot; there's something about that new-cloth smell that kind of invigorates you. -Although I've never really been a 'clothes' person-.

Also if you're good at your job and people seek your help and advice, it develops some respect too, which feeds into the circle. Especially in America, like we've said, people value/respect that you "put more hours" etc, although I'm not necessarily justifying that of course.

(Note that i'm not claiming any huge results).

Most importantly of all, he will be doing all of this for himself, not in the hope of getting laid by some bar slut, one day.

I don't know if a man can really do this. There's always our "second-brain" running that background thread... Lol.

[Ghost]

.

[Jester]

Confidence doesn't really get rid of most peoples' problems. My feeling is that the shy and under-confident, unassuming, humble handsome guy (not crippled by social phobia) will do better than the confident guy with a poor bone structure and years of wear on his face. People will just tell the less attractive guy that his problem is a lack of confidence, to make themselves feel better--it gives them an "out", so they don't have to admit that they really do notice that some people are less beautiful than others and that this lack of beauty can make life tough. This is only one possible example out of many as to how a lack of confidence is used as a magic excuse for why life isn't good for someone.

What do you think?

I think you're right in a way, wrong in a way.

Yes, you don't have a confidence problem. You're right about that.

But when you FORGET about the appearance issue(s), and forge ahead with a "damn the torpedoes, smedley" attitude, you will get the woman you want. That's what your friends are trying to tell you.

They are right.

[Jester]

Here's a great scene from Shakespeare's play "Henry V".

The subject of the play, IMO, is leadership.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQONty9uRgA


After 1:45 or so he alludes to the fact that he is not so good-looking (obviously Branagh is a good-looking fellow, but he directed and produced too, so he cast himself despite his good looks).

From after 4:26 to 5:26 he gives a CLASSIC line of bullshit that convinces kate he is a great catch despite his (we are told) ugly face.

You DONT have to look a certain way. Just... tell her what to think. FRAME IT for her.

Everyone is looking for a leader. So LEAD.

[Winston]

Confidence and self-esteem are fictitious inventions and myths of modern American pop psychology, the New Age motivational industry, and self-improvement industry. They are fake illusions and pseudo traits that have no value. Yet America treats them like "gas" that you have to pump yourself up with all the time just for the sake of it. It's so fake and useless.

The word "self-esteem" is a modern term that did not exist in the past. If it was anything important, then why have humans not even mentioned it in the last 5,000 years? Why is it never mentioned in the Bible? Why does no one talk about it in other countries? These are great questions that America can't answer, because America is the king of bullshit and fakeness. No other country is as fake.

See my essay debunking confidence and self-esteem as it's used in America.

viewtopic.php?t=24516

[In2dadark]

This line of advice has been plaguing me for most of my life, and by this point, I am just kind of tired of it.

I don't lack confidence. I am a confident guy.

But people keep telling me I need to be more confident, as if that will solve all the problems in my life. It just isn't the case. Unless your problems are directly caused by a lack of confidence, they won't magically go away with confidence.

Confidence doesn't really get rid of most peoples' problems. My feeling is that the shy and under-confident, unassuming, humble handsome guy (not crippled by social phobia) will do better than the confident guy with a poor bone structure and years of wear on his face. People will just tell the less attractive guy that his problem is a lack of confidence, to make themselves feel better--it gives them an "out", so they don't have to admit that they really do notice that some people are less beautiful than others and that this lack of beauty can make life tough. This is only one possible example out of many as to how a lack of confidence is used as a magic excuse for why life isn't good for someone.

What do you think?

You can start by changing you name on here. Your self talk is more important than what others say. You're w/ yourself more than anyone... uh.. I should hope.

[Jester]

Confidence and self-esteem are fictitious inventions and myths of modern American pop psychology, the New Age motivational industry, and self-improvement industry....

The word "self-esteem" is a modern term that did not exist in the past. If it was anything important, then why have humans not even mentioned it in the last 5,000 years? Why is it never mentioned in the Bible?

If this wasn't in your Bible, then someone sold you short:

"Don't underrate yourself. Humility deserves honor and respect, but a low opinion of yourself leads to sin. Do not let others have their way at your expense; do not bring on your own ruin by giving up your rights."
--Sirach, chapter 4

[mattyman]

There are several potential sub-threads I could go onto in this.

The idea that if you are a quieter type, you must get it changed at all costs, or that if you haven't been meeting your social and romantic needs, then this is 100% to blame, even if people giving the 'you need confidence' advice know f**k all about your situation. If people are unable to relate to your situation or personal circumstances, they have no right to pass judgement and give (often inappropriate) advice.

Most advice you see on becoming confident strikes me as telling you to fit some sort of mould, rather than tackling real problems that might be holding one back socially and romantically.

Things such as taking things too personally, trying to please people, not sharing your opinion, refraining from self disclosure etc. are real problems that do hold people back socially and romantically. Sadly, most the advice you see does nothing what-so-ever to address ways of dealing with these problems, let alone in the correct manner.

What I think is particularly damaging, is that guys affected by the above and similar problems, by into the whole 'acting confident (cocky/fake)' stuff, and are diverted from what the real problems are.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being polite, there is nothing wrong with being humble, I would only be concerned if you find yourself being overly worried about offending people, sharing your opinions, saying what you think people want to hear etc. All that 'nice-guy/bad boy, alpha/beta' rubbish really is trying to address this. The irony is, by doing those behaviours, one is not really 'being themselves' so to speak.

If that is the case, I would want to find out WHY, why would someone be like that? What sort of experiences must someone have had to make them that apologetic in the first place? Why doesn't most advice you see make any effort what-so-ever to consider that?