The human costs | Sex-tourism

[hypermak]

Exactly - this is kind of my point, a desperate woman who doesn't have the education to understand bareback sex might have devastating consequences for her long term because she is being paid a few pesos more is a victim - even if she is a victim of her lack of education or understanding that these descisions can cost her, her life - she is a still a victim - a lot of guys will pay a few more pesos/baht or whatever and nine months later, the whore has an unwanted guest - I don't think we should compare an uneducated woman in the third world who is selling herself out of necessity to the john which is being done here - the john usually has more power, more financial clout, better schooled and arguably more intellect.

That's not to say there aren't johns who aren't victims, there are certainly johns who are victims of prostitutes and prostitution - they sometimes fall in love and marry them and end up losing everything they have worked for, sometimes their lives.

I agree. The general backdrop is one of desperation.

The girls are desperate and, let's admit it, more often than not the customers are desperate. I have never been to Angeles City but from what I heard from friends, most punters are old men in their late 50s to late 60s, many of them not doing so well financially, saving up a whole year to afford those 2-3 weeks of cheap hotels and feeling like Hugh Hefner in his mansion. I can imagine the huge expectations these men have and, consequently, what these poor girls are expected to deliver.

[Yohan]

It's not a black and white issue,

I think, it is indeed clearly a black vs. white issue.

It is the girl, rich or poor, who decides to do this kind of job - because her income is better and the work is easier.

It is not the foreign male customer who is forcing a girl to enter night club/beer bar jobs.

Thre are many girls in SE Asia who are doing a very low paid job (working in a factory, convenience store, cleaning streets, working in fields etc. etc.), and living in slum-like condition but reject resolutely any offer related to sex in return of money.

What about all these honest girls and what about the boys? They are also doing low-paid jobs, carrying heavy packages of drinking water supply, construction helper, cleaning canals, washing cars, working on boats for the fishing industry....

Many bar-girls are much better paid than these uneducated boys who doing all the dirty work in the streets. And who talks about them?

I see no reason why I should feel any compassion with lazy bar girls, but ignore all the other girls and boys next to them - the big majority - who are not sex workers.

Some of the johns are victims or they become victims if they enter a relationship and marry with said prostitute, how many men have been poisoned or thrown out of their apartment block by their former bar girl wives?

There is of course scam going on everywhere, however I see here some misinformation about owning property in Asia.

In Thailand for sure, if the foreigner is the registered owner of the condominium unit BEFORE marriage and the property is fully paid by him BEFORE marriage, it is HIS property for life and NOT THEIR property.

Even after a long term marriage, after divorce she will have to move out. This is not about gender or foreigner etc., but about the very strong rights of the landlord in Thailand, which override many other legal regulations, including marriage.

The new property law in China is similar, also Japan has a similar regulation in the land-title (by ownership in % in the land title).
About the legal situation in Philippines, I don't know.

Do you think if the Philippines became a first world country tomorrow that the likes of Angeles City would exist?

Yes, I think so. Why not?

We have a lot of sex-business in Japan too. There are always women (including Japanese women who are anything but poor and not only foreign girls) who are offering themselves against money.

The only difference I see is the price the male customer pays. A nice young Japanese girl doing such 'hostess' jobs expects earnings of around 1 million yen per month (more than USD 9000,- per month).

There is no way a girl, around 20, school drop-out, can earn this money doing any ordinary job like working in a factory or shop etc.

However there are many more simple Japanese women and not high educated, who have their financial problems too but will refuse any sex-job and are going home maybe with yen 160.000,- per month (around USD 1500,-) and who cares about them?

[flowerthief00]

Dude, you sound like a feminist cuck. Get a clue please.

I'm speechless. This is after you contributed the most outrageous feminist comment that has been posted on this thread?

Any woman who becomes pregnant as a result of sex tourism is at fault 100%. Even in the case of pregnancy due to rape, women have any number of means to prevent or end pregnancy quickly. If a woman becomes pregnant, it usually means she WANTED to become pregnant or to stay pregnant. In those rare cases were the women was just clueless, it is STILL her fault for not being up on the pregnancy risks of sexual activity.

Is this not the popular feminist pro-choice premise that everything which happens with a woman's body is 100% her own business, including any life that might be growing within? That the man's involvement comes to a complete end from the moment he withdraws his dick from her hole? After that all responsibility and authority are 100% hers to own. Her body her choice. Stop me if I'm wrong but that is the premise you are starting from, no? If I have you wrong I will revise. But if this really your position...you get the most rabidly feminist and anti-male consequences from it when taken to its logical conclusion!

[flowerthief00]

I have no idea, why this is all so difficult to understand.
....
Simply said,
Her problems later on like pregnancy is not his problem...up to her.
His problems later on like to ask some assistance from a medical doctor is not her problem...up to him.

He owns her nothing, and she owns him nothing.

I would say ONLY IF that is explicitly agreed upon by both parties. Which can be the case, but nowhere is it written that this is the default!
If anything it often wouldn't be, given that prostitution over there isn't regulated nor even legal to begin with.

In fact, if we look at Philippines child support law, it does not differentiate between legitimate or illegitimate children. Child support can apply whether the parents were married or not. So where is the basis for saying that father responsibilities go from nothing to everything in the event that the parents were married? Waiver of paternal responsibility when conception occurs outside of marriage is only but your opinion of how things should be.

It's fine to state your opinion of how things should be. We are all doing that here.

My opinion is that responsibilities divide equally between both parents by default unless otherwise agreed upon by both. That seems to me the only fair way to manage it in a way that considers the interests of all 3 persons including the child. Speaking of that, I haven't seen much indication from you that you have considered the interests of the child.

[flowerthief00]

Exactly - this is kind of my point, a desperate woman who doesn't have the education to understand bareback sex might have devastating consequences for her long term because she is being paid a few pesos more is a victim - even if she is a victim of her lack of education or understanding that these descisions can cost her, her life - she is a still a victim -

Further support for this belief can be found in the policies of some countries such as France and Norway which take the neo-abolitionist stance towards prostitution. They have decriminalized the selling of sex, but the buying of sex remains criminal. The reasoning is that sometimes young women end up in prostitution due to circumstances that are not all her fault, so she should not be punished for it. But there is no such excuse for the buyer.

As far as I know there is no prostitution legal model that criminalizes only the selling but not the buying. A seller might be desperate for money, but no buyer needs to hire a prostitute.

[yick]

I think, it is indeed clearly a black vs. white issue.

No it's not.

It is the girl, rich or poor, who decides to do this kind of job - because her income is better and the work is easier.

It is not the foreign male customer who is forcing a girl to enter night club/beer bar jobs.

Which is true, of course the john doesn't 'force' her to enter into prostitution but if we examine the case of the Indonesian prostitiutes who were murdered and disembowleled by the pyschopath Rurik Jutting, on being tried for their murders, the two families had this to say about the loss of their daughter and what it meant to them, what did it mean to them? The loss of income.

“She regularly sent money to her family - around Rp.5 million (£330) every two months.

“Our family was devastated over her death as she was the only daughter and the main support to our parents.

“Since her death, our mother has suffered from diabetes and high blood pressure which has damaged her eyesight.

“Our father is unable to work anymore because he needs to take care of his wife and our elderly grandmother.

“Once a week, we have to find the money to buy medicine for our mother costing more than Rp.100,000 (£6).

“The family hopes the perpetrator will be severely punished and if it could, to be executed. The family is also seeking compensation.”

Her family say that alongside robbing Miss Ningsih of her life, Jutting has put that of her now seven-year-old son at risk.

Suyitno said: “Sumarti worked in Hong Kong for two years and eight months. During that period, she diligently called our family and sent money home so our economy was more improved because we had a stable income.

“She returned home for a few months but then left back to Hong Kong. After that, we heard she had been killed.

“We are devastated by her death. The incident is a tragedy to our family. We have lost two daughters and two sisters [Ningsih’s elder sister is missing after leaving home to find work]. It’s hard for us to accept this reality.

“After her death, our family economy has worsened. She was the only breadwinner.

“Our parents are getting older and incapable to perform heavy work. Sumarti’s son has no more guarantees for his future.

“On behalf of our family, I hope the perpetrator will be punished severely according to what he had done to Sumarti and the other victim. I also demand compensation from this perpetrator.

“I also demand the Indonesian government to provide scholarships to Sumarti’s son so he will be able to finish school until at least high school because we have no more income to ensure his education.”



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new ... ng-9217610

The callous way where the loss of income meant more than the actual way their daughter was murdered meant that there was more than one abuser in the life of Seneng Mujiasih. An uneducated young girl being forced to make up an income to ignorant and stupid familiy members back home - in her particular case, she was the victim of not only a psychopath (which was definitely the case...) but lazy, stupid and greedy sociopathic family members who guilt shamed her into making choices she probably didn't want to do because they wanted more money - it's not ALL about the relationship between the john and the whore - the abuser comes in many many forms.

Thre are many girls in SE Asia who are doing a very low paid job (working in a factory, convenience store, cleaning streets, working in fields etc. etc.), and living in slum-like condition but reject resolutely any offer related to sex in return of money.

What about all these honest girls and what about the boys? They are also doing low-paid jobs, carrying heavy packages of drinking water supply, construction helper, cleaning canals, washing cars, working on boats for the fishing industry....

Many bar-girls are much better paid than these uneducated boys who doing all the dirty work in the streets. And who talks about them?

I see no reason why I should feel any compassion with lazy bar girls, but ignore all the other girls and boys next to them - the big majority - who are not sex workers.

True, but maybe they have reasonable families and parents who don't expect stupid amounts of money off their children, who don't parasite as a way of life, not everyone is lucky enough to have decent parents - in South East Asia as well as Europe/The Americas.

Or do you think that prostitutes want to f**k the likes of Rurik Jutting and risk their lives?

There is of course scam going on everywhere, however I see here some misinformation about owing property in Asia.

In Thailand for sure, if the foreigner is the registered owner of the condominium unit BEFORE marriage and the property is fully paid by him BEFORE marriage, it is HIS property for life and NOT THEIR property.

Even after a long term marriage, after divorce she will have to move out. This is not about gender or foreigner etc., but about the very strong rights of the landlord in Thailand, which override many other legal regulations, including marriage.

But a lot of men DON'T buy condos - as you very well know - and end up being murdered so family members can move in with the purchaser out of the way, I suppose you could say he was naieve and stupid but he is also a victim, he made choices in good faith and paid for his life with them, this happens many many times as you very well know. They might have been duped but they're still victims.

I would and you would research this, they don't - they're thick and stupid, but they're still the victims if they turn up to their Issan palace that was built in good faith with his bare hands only to be told to 'get the f**k out'.

Do you think if the Philippines became a first world country tomorrow that the likes of Angeles City would exist?

Yes, I think so. Why not?

Yeah but it wouldn't be a whole city, sure, prostitution exists in the first world but it doesn't encompass a whole city or most of a city.

We have a lot of sex-business in Japan too. There are always women (including Japanese women who are anything but poor and not only foreign girls) who are offering themselves against money.

The only difference I see is the price the male customer pays. A nice young Japanese girl doing such 'hostess' jobs expects earnings of around 1 million yen per month (more than USD 9000,- per month).

There is no way a girl, around 20, school drop-out, can earn this money doing any ordinary job like working in a factory or shop etc.

However there are many more simple Japanese women and not high educated, who have their financial problems too but will refuse any sex-job and are going home maybe with yen 160.000,- per month (around USD 1500,-) and who cares about them?

Luckily they live in a first world country, luckily, they don't have soicopathic deadbeats as family members who expect them to send unreasonable amounts of money based on the back of no education and skills, not every young woman in Asia has this luxury of being able to reject this choice. That isn't to say there aren't choices, there are - but they're enforced by unreasonable demands from poor, stupid and uneducated people, of course, the john is just the last in line as the abuser but there are many more abusers that come before him.

[Yohan]

It is the girl, rich or poor, who decides to do this kind of job - because her income is better and the work is easier.
It is not the foreign male customer who is forcing a girl to enter night club/beer bar jobs.

Which is true, of course the john doesn't 'force' her to enter into prostitution but if we examine the case of the Indonesian prostitiutes who were murdered and disembowleled by the pyschopath Rurik Jutting....

There are psychopaths everywhere - men and women worldwide - and some of them are also killing prostitutes.
This crime happens not only in Asia but also in USA, UK... not to talk about Latin America, South Africa, there are honor killings in Islamic countries etc. etc. - About this crazy guy, I don't care if he is executed.

As far as I see from this link, she was in HongKong working as a domestic helper and later on moving on into prostitution.
Why did she do that? Nobody was actually forcing her to do that. Her family members were not in HongKong. She was 23 years old and could easily say, 'Sorry, but I cannot send more money, because I do not earn more'. - It was her decision to enter prostitution.

She could also check out a bit for a nice boyfriend and marriage - I am sure many honest men, Western and Asian, would be happy to date her ....

No, I flatly reject such argument, that 'prostitution' is the only resort for earning money for poor uneducated women. There are plenty of uneducated women who do not work as call-girls despite they are poor and have never been in a school.

BTW, most poor men do not have this choice anyway... Who cares about them?

Who cares about poor men who are doing also risky jobs and were killed? Think about it - soldiers, seamen, construction workers....

YICK:
True, but maybe they have reasonable families and parents who don't expect stupid amounts of money off their children, who don't parasite as a way of life, not everyone is lucky enough to have decent parents - in South East Asia as well as Europe/The Americas.

Or do you think that prostitutes want to f**k the likes of Rurik Jutting and risk their lives?

MAYBE? What should that mean, we cannot choose our parents.
The point remains that nobody forced her into prostitution. She had other choices as well, but SHE decided for prostitution.

I should also mention that many people, men, women, children are the victims of murderers worldwide and who cares? - What makes this prostitute killed by a psychopath so special?

YICK:
But a lot of men DON'T buy condos - as you very well know - and end up being murdered so family members can move in with the purchaser out of the way, I suppose you could say he was naieve and stupid but he is also a victim, he made choices in good faith and paid for his life with them, this happens many many times as you very well know. They might have been duped but they're still victims.

I would and you would research this, they don't - they're thick and stupid, but they're still the victims if they turn up to their Issan palace that was built in good faith with his bare hands only to be told to 'get the f**k out'.

As a foreigner, in case of Thailand, you can buy ONLY condominium units in your name - to create something like an 'Isan Palace' is against the law.
As long as your name as a foreigner is not in the land title, or at least in company name only with the foreigner and HIS lawyers, clearly excluding any personal friends like bar-girls and their family members, you own nothing.

But how is this different with anywhere in this world? Men are often the victims of fraud, armed robbery/assassination, check out knife-crime in London, UK, gun-violence in USA...

I posted many times in various forums clear warnings and was talking with many foreigners during my more than 40 years in Asia and told them not to be infected with 'yellow fever'.

What do you expect police shall do in such cases? He gave away everything by his own decision.

I told many foreign men always to buy a condominium unit which is fitting the law to be sold to foreign ownership and well guarded with many foreigners living inside. I told them many time do not go with girls to their families in a nowhere region.

To make it short:
His problem, if he is so stupid and gives a huge amount of money to Asian bargirls for housing investment in HER name.
This is not illegal, but it is risky behavior.

Her problem, if she is so stupid and moves into prostitution, not always illegal depends on the country, but it is risky behavior.

Those men and women are adults, they are responsible for their own decision. Stop blaming others like parents, foreign men etc.

Do you think if the Philippines became a first world country tomorrow that the likes of Angeles City would exist?

Yes, I think so. Why not?

Yeah but it wouldn't be a whole city, sure, prostitution exists in the first world but it doesn't encompass a whole city or most of a city.

A whole city? About which cities are you talking about it? Please name them!

About Angeles City in Pampanga, Philippines, this is not such a small place, a city with approx. 500.000 people living there - and you really think that ALL or at least MOST of these people are living solely from prostitution and their income depends solely on what the foreign man is willing to pay?

As you admit, there are other choices too, and many men and women do indeed prefer 'other choices' regardless if they are rich or poor.
It's not about money, it's all about your choice - your own way you prefer to go, about your mind-set and character and moral values....

[yick]

There are psychopaths everywhere - men and women worldwide - and some of them are also killing prostitutes.
This crime happens not only in Asia but also in USA, UK... not to talk about Latin America, South Africa, there are honor killings in Islamic countries etc. etc. - About this crazy guy, I don't care if he is executed.

As far as I see from this link, she was in HongKong working as a domestic helper and later on moving on into prostitution.
Why did she do that? Nobody was actually forcing her to do that. Her family members were not in HongKong. She was 23 years old and could easily say, 'Sorry, but I cannot send more money, because I do not earn more'. - It was her decision to enter prostitution.

You have lived in Asia long enough to know that is NOT how it works, if some families are parastic and forceful enough to demand money to come from somewhere and what she is earning isn't enough - you know that she is being expected to earn that money somehow - within the culture of filal piety and obedience to the parents - how she does it doesn't concern them.

Now I know some children will have that freedom to say 'well, f**k off' and some won't.

She could also check out a bit for a nice boyfriend and marriage - I am sure many honest men, Western and Asian, would be happy to date her ....

Yeah, but she had bills to pay as of the here and now, people were expecting her to send lots of money back home, sure, I suppose she could have made a long term plan but when people need that money todaytodaytoday - then she needs to make choices that your daughters (for example...) would never have to make.

No, I flatly reject such argument, that 'prostitution' is the only resort for earning money for poor uneducated women. There are plenty of uneducated women who do not work as call-girls despite they are poor and have never been in a school.

No-one said it wasn't - who said that? I didn't say that. What I said was, that prostitution is an avenue for young women who come from poverty who have families who expect unreasonable financial demands from them - they have neither the skills or the education to make up that kind of income and they're forced into via family pressures, filal piety and cultural norms and expectations. Not them all but a good number of them

BTW, most poor men do not have this choice anyway... Who cares about them?

No-one would pay for your arse anyway, that's why we're men, what would you do if you had no money but no skills or education?

Who cares about poor men who are doing also risky jobs and were killed? Think about it - soldiers, seamen, construction workers....

I am a man as well, no, I couldn't give two shits about them.

MAYBE? What should that mean, we cannot choose our parents.
The point remains that nobody forced her into prostitution. She had other choices as well, but SHE decided for prostitution.

Again, no-one is saying anyone is FORCED into prostitution but that doesn't mean she ISN'T a VICTIM of circumstances, culture, family members and YES - the john who ends up infecting her, murdering her and ruining her life - because she wasn't FORCED into prostitution doesn't mean she isn't a VICTIM.

Just like the poor sap who is murdered for his house - he is a victim too - nobody FORCED him to marry a bar whore and nobody FORCED him to build his bar whore a house but he is still a victim if and when it gets took off him where it sometimes ends with him losing his life - doesn't matter how misguided he is - if he did it in good faith or even if he didn't - he doesn't deserve to be thrown off the balcony!

I should also mention that many people, men, women, children are the victims of murderers worldwide and who cares? - What makes this prostitute killed by a psychopath so special?

She is a victim of circumstances that led her to prostitution that led her to being murdered, you're saying it is 'black and white' very few things are.

As a foreigner, in case of Thailand, you can buy ONLY condominium units in your name - to create something like an 'Isan Palace' is against the law.
As long as your name as a foreigner is not in the land title, or at least in company name only with the foreigner and HIS lawyers, clearly excluding any personal friends like bar-girls and their family members, you own nothing.

It's NOT against the law if it is in the wife's name - which is why these men get murdered - they're stupid and foolish as they get their house took off them but they enterted these relationships and marriages in good faith - because of that, they're still victims - they're in love, the bar girl they married saw a big fish coming and caught it. So sometimes, the john is a victim of prostitution - if they didn't marry bar whores, more than likely they would have kept their money.

But how is this different with anywhere in this world? Men are often the victims of armed robbery/assassination, check out knife-crime in London, UK, gun-violence in USA...

Who says it's different - no-one - a victim of a crime is a victim of a crime - that is correct .

I posted many times clear warnings and was talking with many foreigners during my more than 40 years in Asia and told them not to be infected with 'yellow fever'.
What do you expect police shall do in such cases? He gave away everything by his own decision.
I told many foreign men always to buy a condominium unit which is fitting the law to be sold to foreign ownership and well guarded.

Well, that's very good advice but when people don't listen to it and end up being screwed out of their lifetime savings, they're still victims of a crime even if they don't heed good advice.

To make it short:
His problem if he is so stupid and gives a huge amount of money to Asian bargirls for housing investment in HER name.
This is not illegal, but risky behavior.

I agree - there is nothing you haven't said that is incorrect - but when it happens - it doesn't mean he isn't a victim of a crime, because he trusted her, I mean, I wouldn't marry anyone who had been a prostitute, never mind build a house and put it in her name but some people are a bit too trusting and gullible - even so, the woman and family who defraud him out of the house are still criminals, the fact their victim is a bit of an idiot doesn't stop him being a victim of crime.

The same goes for a prostitute, if she gets raped, murdered, infected with STD's - she is still a victim of crime - even though the john didn't FORCE her to become a prostitute - that doesn't mean she CANNOT be a victim - she is a victim in many ways.

Her problem if she is so stupid and moves into prostitution, not always illegal depends on the country, but it is risky behavior.

You are talking from someone who has always had opportunity and wealth.

Those men and women are adults, responsible for their own decision.

True, but that doesn't mean that there aren't reasons for certain behaviours - there are always causation, stimuli, rationale etc

whole city? About which cities are you talking about it? Please name them!
Sounds rather exaggerated to me, something like 'charity talk' to collect money for poor girls and such BS.

You'll know more about that than me I bet.

About Angeles City in Pampanga, Philippines, this is not such a small place, a city with approx. 500.000 people living there - and you really think that ALL or at least MOST of these people are living solely from prostitution and their income depends solely on what the foreign man is willing to pay?

As you admit, there are other choices too, and many men and women do indeed prefer 'other choices' regardless if they are rich or poor.
It's not about money, it's about your choice - your own way you prefer to go, about your mind-set and character and moral values....

I am glad I am not one of those people who have to make such shitty choices, and nor are you by the sounds of it. You have never gone without to the extent of you NEEDED to sell your arse - you are talking from a very privileged position - of a man from the first world who had the life choices to leave their home country behind as soon as they were able to.

You probably have some mad idea that prosititutes do it because they enjoy f***ing the likes of you. It probably offends you that they have little choice in the matter a lot of times.

[Yohan]

... have decriminalized the selling of sex, but the buying of sex remains criminal.

Only a strongly pro-feminist country can create such a stupid law - and claiming the law is gender-neutral.

In a few cases however this law backfired, as some older women were paying young men...and not even within Norway.

You mentioned Norway, but this strange law applies to every Norway citizen not only in Norway but also while abroad, equally if the buyer is a woman or a man, everywhere, worldwide.

I consider this law as totally absurd - it means in case of firearms, it is allowed to sell firearms and live bullets legally, but it is illegal to buy them. Ridiculous. Idiotic.

As far as I know there is no prostitution legal model that criminalizes only the selling but not the buying. A seller might be desperate for money, but no buyer needs to hire a prostitute.

This is not true, as a feminist from Sweden explained to me. Different laws in Sweden are used in such a case, there is something like a anti-promiscuity law in case a woman is approaching deliberately men at random and offers sex against money.

In USA, women are sent to jail in various states if they try to sell their bodies, regardless if they find customers or not.

[Yohan]

YOHAN:
Who cares about poor men who are doing also risky jobs and were killed? Think about it - soldiers, seamen, construction workers....

I am a man as well, no, I couldn't give two shits about them

Not nice to hear that you don't care about poor men who are doing hard jobs as overseas workers on ships and on construction sites or in the low-paid Philippine or Indonesian Army, but you care so much about the well-being of female prostitutes...

YICK:
It's NOT against the law if it is in the wife's name - which is why these men get murdered...

It is rare that such stupid men are getting murdered - they are in almost all cases just kicked out, penniless and don't even have the money to buy a ticket back home.

Your information is wrong: It is against the Thai law if a Thai woman (or man) buys property in her (his) name using money from a foreigner, even not in form of a loan. She has to prove that when the land title is transferred, that this money is HER own money. Of course much scam is going on about that. It is difficult to enforce such a law.

YICK:
I agree - there is nothing you haven't said that is incorrect - but when it happens - it doesn't mean he isn't a victim of a crime, because he trusted her, I mean, I wouldn't marry anyone who had been a prostitute, never mind build a house and put it in her name but some people are a bit too trusting and gullible - even so, the woman and family who defraud him out of the house are still criminals, the fact their victim is a bit of an idiot doesn't stop him being a victim of crime.

The same goes for a prostitute, if she gets raped, murdered, infected with STD's - she is still a victim of crime - even though the john didn't FORCE her to become a prostitute - that doesn't mean she CANNOT be a victim - she is a victim in many ways.

To be stupid does not protect you against damage. There is no law protecting merely stupid acting adults, except they are placed legally under disability.

-----

About build a house and put it in her name in Thailand - only the land cannot be sold to foreign ownership, however the house can be owned by a foreigner, these are two different documents - the owner of a house is the person whose name is in the construction permit (and NOT in the land title).
An additional contract about the way-leave is also useful.
If the legal framework is correct and the foreigner is kicked out, the land owner has to pay him off, otherwise he can refuse to leave.

Such contracts in Thailand are rather complicated and a lot of paperwork - you need to contact a law firm which is presenting only you -the foreigner - to take care of that. You as a foreigner should never do such transactions alone or with 'help' from the bar-girl or her relatives...

You are talking from someone who has always had opportunity and wealth.

No, I was grown up in poverty in Europe past WWII Russian occupation with a psycho mother - it was not a nice time for me as a child and I had plenty of debts when I was a young adult - it took me years but I could arrange my life to the better side.

YICK: prostitution exists in the first world but it doesn't encompass a whole city or most of a city

YOHAN: About Angeles City in Pampanga, Philippines, this is not such a small place, a city with approx. 500.000 people living there - and you really think that ALL or at least MOST of these people are living solely from prostitution and their income depends solely on what the foreign man is willing to pay?

Missing your reply .... still waiting to your comment

I am glad I am not one of those people who have to make such shitty choices, and nor are you by the sounds of it.
.....
you are talking from a very privileged position - of a man from the first world who had the life choices to leave

Life choices?

I had to work for that, often up to 100 hour per week, and I was already 45+ with my two daughters grown up when my situation really improved a lot - and don't ask me how much money - still up to now - I give away for poor people in the Philippines since more than 20 years, and not only for my filipina fosterdaughter in Cebu (who is now 25), but for other Filipino people too.

I never calculated it, never made a list of my donations, but for sure I gave away several millions of pesos to help people living in slum-like conditions with food and medicine, school and clothes etc.

However I can assure you not even one woman I supported - young ones, older ones, some still children at that time - were or are now into any form of 'money in return of sex'.

[yick]

Not nice to hear that you don't care about poor men who are doing hard jobs as overseas workers on ships and on construction sites or in the low-paid Philippine or Indonesian Army, but you care so much about the well-being of female prostitutes...

I have been a 'poor man' I have been a soldier who was deployed on active duty overseas, I don't want your sympathy and I am sure those men don't want mine.

Yes, I want prostitutes and their johns to be treated decently and not have crimes committed against them - why not?

It is rare that such stupid men are getting murdered - they are in almost all cases just kicked out, penniless and don't even have the money to buy a ticket back home.

Your information is wrong: It is against the Thai law if a Thai woman (or man) buys property in her (his) name using money from a foreigner, even not in form of a loan. She has to prove that when the land title is transferred, that this money is HER own money. Of course much scam is going on about that. It is difficult to enforce such a law.

It's not that rare and secondly - when has that law ever been enforced where the house is took off the Thai prostitute and her family - never! Which is why the scam lives on.

To be stupid does not protect you against damage. There is no law protecting merely stupid acting adults, except they are placed legally under disability.

Of course not, but it doesn't mean they're not victims of crime or of criminal behaviour.

About build a house and put it in her name in Thailand - only the land cannot be sold to foreign ownership, however the house can be owned by a foreigner, these are two different documents - the owner of a house is the person whose name is in the construction permit (and NOT in the land title).
An additional contract about the way-leave is also useful.
If the legal framework is correct and the foreigner is kicked out, the land owner has to pay him off, otherwise he can refuse to leave.

Such contracts in Thailand are rather complicated and a lot of paperwork - you need to contact a law firm which is presenting only you -the foreigner - to take care of that. You as a foreigner should never do such transactions alone or with 'help' from the bar-girl or her relatives...

Sure, but people do and they trust the wrong people - they're still victims - this is my repeated point.

No, I was grown up in poverty in Europe past WWII Russian occupation with a psycho mother - it was not a nice time for me as a child and I had plenty of debts when I was a young adult - it took me years but I could arrange my life to the better side.

Yes, but it isn't the poverty of an Indonesian or Thai whore, whatever your circumstances were in 1970's Vienna - you had enough education and opportunities to get yourself out of it, not everyone in the world has your opportunities - or mine - at least I admit it.

Missing your reply .... still waiting to your comment

There are cities in this world FAMOUS for prostitiution and are rampant with johns, Pattaya and Angeles City are two of the more famous ones. Simply put - if prostitution did not exist, those cities would lose much revenue which would or could not be replaced - which we're seeing in Pattaya at this moment in time - people - many people - who work not only within the industry but support it (hairdressers, massage parlours, restaurants) are suffering.

Life choices?

Yeah, life choices, you have been in a very privileged position in your life.

I had to work for that, often up to 100 hour per week, and I was already 45+ with my two daughters grown up when my situation really improved a lot - and don't ask me how much money - still up to now - I give away for poor people in the Philippines since more than 20 years, and not only for my filipina fosterdaughter in Cebu (who is now 25), but for other Filipino people too.

So what? Are you comparing your life choices as similar to an uneducated Indonesian whores?

I never calculated it, never made a list of my donations, but for sure I gave away several millions of pesos to help people living in slum-like conditions with food and medicine, school and clothes etc.

However I can assure you not even one woman I supported - young ones, older ones, some still children at that time - were or are now into any form of 'money in return of sex'.

Apologies if that sounded like an accusation, I have no idea if you have been with a prostitute or not, if you say you haven't then I believe you. Many men have no qualms about being with such women. I have no idea what your personal credo with all this is.

No one is saying - or not me, that they haven't made a choice, of course they have, but they are also victims of circumstances - circumstances very different from your own, usually, they haven't got the education or the support to venture up another avenue - for poor uneducated women with no real prospects in life except a pretty face and a nice body, there isn't much in the way of opportunities - especially somewhere like the Philippines where there are many pretty women with a nice body - that isn't to say they are FORCED into prostitution but it seems like a viable alternative where there aren't many viable alternatives - especially when you have a grabbing family and the competition is deep. They can also be victims, anyone can be a victim of anything, because they enter the world of prostitution doesn't mean they cannot be a victim any less than a man who marries a bar whore who ends up getting murdered.

[Spencer]

Yohan is heroman money and brain support path to make poor dark slum girl transfer to educate class young ladyhood even have own wife kids for his response support that is truth good happy aboarder wiseton should give reward for heroman yohan

[HappyGuy]

Philippines: Little boy lost in market embarks on journey to find family | 60 Minutes Australia

[HappyGuy]

Now they're exploiting these poor women in America!

Jul 24, 2019
Filipina Foreign Teacher Lands in Rural America: ‘I Was Surprised’ | VOA Connect

[ladislav]

Always the white man. Angeles City belongs to Koreans now. At least it did before Covid. But of course it would be racist to mention Koreans. So, it's the Yank, the Aussie, the German.

The prostitutes have the right to refuse sex if the man does not wear condoms. But no, it's the white man's fault. Always.