Does the Men's Movement Imitate Feminism?

[MrMan]

I'm thinking about some of the Men's Movement and MGTOW videos I've seen and things I've read.

Here are some areas where it seems like the Men's movement imitates Feminists.

Equality
----Some of the videos I've seen are against sexism and want equality between genders. Why go this route? I want a society where a man is socially and legally recognized as the head of his home. It's the way it should be and it's in line with basic biology and human nature.

I saw a video by Warren Farrell. I like a lot of what the man says, and it sounds like he is doing some real research. He had been asked to be a part of a Whitehouse council on women and girls. He proposed they also start a council on men and boys. The Whitehouse showed no interest.

I can appreciate that. It may not be that bad of an idea, but it is also economic liberal thinking. Why dump our government money on councils just so there can be equality? How about we stop spending so many tax dollars and let the people keep more of their money? Feminists like to spend the people's money on their objectives.

MGTOW Philosophy
If you read quotes from Feminist thought leaders, especially some of the lesbian ones, some of them are anti-marriage and say a woman doesn't need a man. They are all against anything that indicates that women need men.

Now, we have MGTOWs with a similar, but reverse gendered, philosophy.

The feminists have taught young women to go to college and then focus on their careers. If they marry young, during their prime child-bearing years when they look most attractive to a man, feminists may look down on them for being housewives or stay at home moms and not exploring a career.

So now the MGTOWs are telling men they don't need women, to go work and save their money.

Some of the Feminists think women can go out and express their sexual power, sleeping with whoever they choose, being slutty, etc. And some of the MGTOWs would advise men to go sleep around with the women, but never marry. It's pretty similar.

Fear Mongering

MGTOW videos and their comments on YouTube seem to be very fear-based. I understand some of the men have been divorced. It's weird, though, when young single men read this junk and get jaded against ever getting married. They watch videos and read so many websites that they get brainwashed into thinking that everyone who marries is stupid for doing so. That's pretty messed up. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, our society has a terrible problem. But there are still those 50% of marriages that don't end in divorce. The thing is to find a woman who won't divorce you that you can enjoy being with and be the kind of man who can stay married and enjoy it.

Man-Hating and Being Mean
One of the big problems with feminism is that it presents men as the enemy. Us men pick up on 'man-hate' emanating from angry brainwashed Feminists.

So what do we see on manosphere sites? You can even find top bloggers who make jokes about hitting women and raping them. There is a lot of hatred toward women. A dominant theme on this site is that American women are all bad. Some posters think of all women as bad. On one of the threads, someone posted a video of a girl who talked about being lonely and not being able to meet men who didn't just want to 'hook up' in her small town. Posters called her a whore.

Look at the vitriol from Feminists toward those who disagree with them, either men or women. You see the same thing with men who have read a lot of certain sites on the manosphere. They are brainwashed with an anti-woman philosophy and cuss out and slander anyone who disagrees with them.

Can't Men Present a Solution?
MGTOW is an awful solution for the gender issues in our society. It's okay if a man wants to go be a monk or devote himself to a higher calling and not marry, but fornicating with girls and going to prostitutes and never marrying is no way to live a life. If a man really wants to marry, but doesn't because he's read so many websites about how women are evil and how bad the family legal system is. Instead of swearing off women, why not be active in trying to get some laws changed? Why not learn a bit about the profile of a woman who stays married and look for her. The 'Happier Abroad' approach can work since women from some countries are less likely to divorce than women from the US. But I'd venture to guess that most of those 50% of marriages in the US that don't end in divorce aren't with foreigners. And some foreign women leave their husbands, too.

Instead of promoting a philosophy that is as negative and hateful toward women as Feminism is toward men, why don't men promote reconciliation. We are supposed to be the leaders. We are the leaders. Why don't we lead? We can lead our society toward a place where the man is respected in the home, where he is responsible for his wife and family and the wife and children respect him in his role. Let's move toward a good thing instead of promoting the same type of division and disunity between men and women that the Feminist movement brought into our society?

[Cornfed]

MGTOW is an awful solution for the gender issues in our society. It's okay if a man wants to go be a monk or devote himself to a higher calling and not marry, but fornicating with girls and going to hoes and never marrying is no way to live a life. If a man really wants to marry, but doesn't because he's read so many websites about how women are evil and how bad the family legal system is. Instead of swearing off women, why not be active in trying to get some laws changed? Why not learn a bit about the profile of a woman who stays married and look for her. The 'Happier Abroad' approach can work since women from some countries are less likely to divorce than women from the US. But I'd venture to guess that most of those 50% of marriages in the US that don't end in divorce aren't with foreigners. And some foreign women leave their husbands, too.

Instead of promoting a philosophy that is as negative and hateful toward women as Feminism is toward men, why don't men promote reconciliation. We are supposed to be the leaders. We are the leaders. Why don't we lead? We can lead our society toward a place where the man is respected in the home, where he is responsible for his wife and family and the wife and children respect him in his role. Let's move toward a good thing instead of promoting the same type of division and disunity between men and women that the Feminist movement brought into our society?

The problem with doing that is that it would involve deposing and exterminating the current global aristocracy and cleansing millions of traitors and foreign invaders from our society, and that doesn’t seem doable at the present time.

[Anatol]

Hello,

[~} ALL men who stand for anything other that a total patriarchal culture are enemies ~

[~} Feminists are those who advocate equality for men and women {(women's education, etc.)}. Right now, the developed world is matriarchal {(female-dominated)} and the developing world is feminist {(except India, which is steering on a course to matriarchy. China MAY become matriarchal if feminism is not crushed immediately there)}. Feminist men are idiots because equality between males-females means a total power-shift towards females. Man is MASTER over woman in society because this need to be master over her is dictated by nature. The reason for this is that females already have power over males because they control the vital 3-letter S word. Hence, the power-balance must be equalised by having domination of females in society.

[~} Men's-rights males, matriarchal-men, etc. are all idiots. There is only one NORMAL man ~ the patriarch.

Hence, your assertion is correct that men's-rights males are a nuisance because they're not fighting for the patriarchy {(male-dominated society)}. The world is so matriarchal now that every man is compelled to say, 'Give us men equal rights!' ~ ~ ~ No no no, this is wrong! 'GIVE US PATRIACHY OR DIE!' must be the saying.

[fschmidt]

Of course the men's movement is like feminism. Why wouldn't it be, it's part of the same culture. Any real solution involves considering broad culture, not myopically focusing on gender issues.

Historically, the key to sound cultures has always been sound religions. So a solution must be based on a sound religion. This is why I focus on religion. Politics is a waste of time when culture is ruined.

[Anatol]

Of course the men's movement is like feminism. Why wouldn't it be, it's part of the same culture. Any real solution involves considering broad culture, not myopically focusing on gender issues.

Historically, the key to sound cultures has always been sound religions. So a solution must be based on a sound religion. This is why I focus on religion. Politics is a waste of time when culture is ruined.

Hello,

I don't agree. Men's-rights is NOT like feminism ~ men's-rights is a reaction to evil feminism but it stands for equality between the genders, which is wrong. Also, religion is not needed to see what the relation between male-female should be. Most of it is common-sense. There are MANY traditional patriarchal cultures with no formal religion, such as Red-Indian cultures {(Native-Americans)}.

[drealm]

These are loose labels but my understanding is that MGTOW's and MRA's are different.

MGTOW's are against feminism and for nothing.

MRA's are for feminism as long as men get equal rights.

MRA's are fundamentally anti-traditionalist. MGTOW's just lack energy.

Any serious traditionalist should avoid both groups.

[fschmidt]

There are MANY traditional patriarchal cultures with no formal religion, such as Red-Indian cultures {(Native-Americans)}.

Reference please. (Many native American cultures were not so patriarchal (see Unwin) and most had some kind of religion.)

[Anatol]

There are MANY traditional patriarchal cultures with no formal religion, such as Red-Indian cultures {(Native-Americans)}.

Reference please. (Many native American cultures were not so patriarchal (see Unwin) and most had some kind of religion.)

This is a lie. Red-Indians FORBADE females from coming into their teepees during 'pow-wow' meetings. All decisions the Sioux, Apache, Navajo and Cherokee tribes were by male-only councils. My source ~ I visited the Navajo and lived with them in their 'Sky-City' in Nevada. I have gone to the Kickapoo Reservation many times. And it is the same with the Kickapoo, which is a minor tribe. All of them confirmed that the Red-Indians are patriarchal. Their religions are NOT formal and are 'pagan' in nature. They are based on reverence for the earth and certainly don't have the kind of rigid structure that Christianity and Islam have. Their religions are so different than Abrahamic-based faiths that they can be compared, but to appreciate their differences and not their similarities to Abrahamic-based faiths. In fact, most settlers from Europe used to scornfully call them 'pagan' because of contempt for the Red-Indians' religion. The settlers from Europe, particularly the British, showed utter disdain for Red-Indian culture but they always want to try and 'interpret' their religions for the Red-Indians. It is laughable and an illness that comes from acute ethnic-centrism.

I emphatically suggest to the rest of the world to be VERY CAREFUL of the Americans and British ~ and now their females have learnt these evil behaviours from their arrogant males. BE WARY of the modern western man!

[Ghost]

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[MrMan]

I've read that some of the so-called 'Civilized Tribes' of the eastern United States were kind of matriarchal. I believe the Cherokee counted children as members of the mother's family, and the most important man in their life could be their mother's brother. The English settlers used to joke about Cherokee women beating their husbands because if they tried to negotiate with them, the Cherokee men would say they had to ask their wives. The English men didn't. I've also read that in one of the tribes in the northeast, maybe one of those Algonquin groups, an old woman could depose a chief by knocking his hornheadress off. I don't remember the details. Maybe it was a particular woman.

Of course, all this stuff is often filtered by 'scholars' who are trying to emphasize feminism, women's rights, and present some women's issues.

I saw a kid's book about pirates that had a page about women pirates. Many pirates wouldn't allow women on their ships, but the author was able to mention three women pirates, probably not too famous and not very obscure whose memory is preserved because some feminists were able to dig them up. I guess they have to have some women robbers for the history books, too, for the sake of equality.

[Teal Lantern]

Instead of promoting a philosophy that is as negative and hateful toward women as Feminism is toward men, why don't men promote reconciliation. We are supposed to be the leaders.

Reconciliators.

[Anatol]

I've read that some of the so-called 'Civilized Tribes' of the eastern United States were kind of matriarchal. I believe the Cherokee counted children as members of the mother's family, and the most important man in their life could be their mother's brother. The English settlers used to joke about Cherokee women beating their husbands because if they tried to negotiate with them, the Cherokee men would say they had to ask their wives. The English men didn't. I've also read that in one of the tribes in the northeast, maybe one of those Algonquin groups, an old woman could depose a chief by knocking his hornheadress off. I don't remember the details. Maybe it was a particular woman.

Hello,

This is all lies. There are a lot of lies in American and British history about others ~ there is an American story that says, 'History is written by the victors', which obviously means 'LIE whenever you wish' ~ no other country in the history of the world thinks like this, except for the British. Not the Muslims. Not the Iranians. Not the Chinese. Not the Indians. Not the Russians.

The American and modern western females have learnt this lying trait from the American male ~ and now all the Western women are going around the world telling Muslim men to NOT follow the Koran when it is time to divorce ~ in Islam, the husband says 'Taalak' 3 times and the wife is OUT. But Islamic governments are so pathetic now that they allow western women to lecture them on how their relations with their females should be.

[Anatol]

Instead of promoting a philosophy that is as negative and hateful toward women as Feminism is toward men, why don't men promote reconciliation. We are supposed to be the leaders.
Reconciliators.

Yuck! These men should be shot as a disgrace to their gender.

[Ghost]

.

[MrMan]

I wonder where they get these guys willing to say stuff like that on the he for she video. Are they actors? I don't see any inequality of opportunity that makes me feel bad for my wife or daughters. They might not be able to do certain special forces work in the military, but I don't want them doing that sort of thing anyway. I want my daughters to be good wives and mothers and marry decent men who will take care of them.

Anatol, what evidence do you present that the eastern tribes were not matriarchal?

From what I hear the plains cultures were more of a macho culture. One man who spent a lot of time with the Navajo and other tribes said the men went out and hunted and fought wars, and the women did pretty much all the rest of the work.