Reparations for slavery

[Cornfed]

Obviously the whole issue is stupid, but here are a couple of arguments against the nonsense that I have never heard presented.

1. What is wrong with slavery such that it would require reparations? Slavery is an ancient and cherished institution practised by most cultures, including black African culture. In fact, the freed black slaves who opted to go to Liberia promptly enslaved the locals, so if you are descended from black slaves in America and disapprove of slavery, your ancestors disagree with you. In fact the only people who ever had a problem with slavery were white liberals. It appears that some black Americans are self-hating Uncle Toms who are sycophantic to patronising white liberals and their values while despising the traditions of their own ancestors. Absolutely disgusting.

2. The argument has been given that if it weren’t for slavery, blacks could have been equal citizens, accumulated wealth and passed it onto their descendants. Aside from the fact that most of them would have been broke, this makes no sense. Without slavery, most blacks wouldn’t have been in America in the first place. In fact their ancestors would have been killed. Black slaves were generally sold to whites and Jews by other blacks because they were captured in battle, were criminals or in other circumstances where they would otherwise have been killed. Therefore if modern blacks want to rectify the situation that slavery brought about, surely they should just kill themselves.

[yick]

What I would do is this and I think this would work. In places that were strongholds of slavery (the confederacy) offer Americans who could prove they were the ancestors of slaves tax breaks, free college education (or a free pathway to college education...) mortgage breaks, monetary help for businesses.

This wouldn't be available for every black person - a first generation African-American of Nigerian or Somalian parentage wouldn't be eligible and nor would black people living in Seattle or Des Moines because it didn't happen there - it happened in certain places to certain parts of the population.

[gsjackson]

What I would do is this and I think this would work. In places that were strongholds of slavery (the confederacy) offer Americans who could prove they were the ancestors of slaves tax breaks, free college education (or a free pathway to college education...) mortgage breaks, monetary help for businesses.

This wouldn't be available for every black person - a first generation African-American of Nigerian or Somalian parentage wouldn't be eligible and nor would black people living in Seattle or Des Moines because it didn't happen there - it happened in certain places to certain parts of the population.

Millions of blacks migrated from the South to northern cities in the early and middle 20th centuries to work in the factories. A significant number of them all over the country are related to slaves. I don't see how this would work.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

What people who get all wrapped around the axle about reparations don't understand is that it is a request outside of the Overton Window.

In short, a demand outside of the Overton Window means repeatedly asking for something so far-fetched and absurd that you eventually get some desirable concession within the window to make you just shut up and go away.

Reparations have taken place in the United States since the 1960s. Ironically, it was before these reparations existed that black families were far more intact, and black middle classes were far more cohesive and identifiable. It was AFTER social programs targeting blacks were implemented that the poorest blacks became the ones who reproduced the most and served to define the entire ethnicity.

Feminists use arguments outside the Overton Window all the time. If you are falling for these extra Overton Window strategies, you need to understand you are being manipulated and the strategy behind it.

[Spencer]

What people who get all wrapped around the axle about reparations don't understand is that it is a request outside of the Overton Window.

In short, the a demand outside of Overton Window means repeatedly ask for something so far fetched and absurd that you eventually get some desirable concession within the window by the opposition so you can just shut up and go away.

Reparations have taken place in the United States since the 1960s. Ironically, it was before these reparations existed that black families were far more intact, and black middle classes were far more cohesive and identifiable. It was AFTER social programs targeting blacks were implemented that the poorest blacks became the ones who reproduced the most and served to define the entire ethnicity.

Feminist use arguments outside the Overton Window all the time. If you are falling for these extra Overton Window strategies, you need to understand you are being manipulated and the strategy behind it.

Contarian make good option post no egomania so goodjob now just stop all egomania posts and stop bringdown other aboarder post and stop bicker postings and bam boom you become all good no bad aboarder

[MrMan]

In fact their ancestors would have been killed. Black slaves were generally sold to whites and Jews by other blacks because they were captured in battle, were criminals or in other circumstances where they would otherwise have been killed. Therefore if modern blacks want to rectify the situation that slavery brought about, surely they should just kill themselves.

From what I've read, there were a few African kingdoms in west Africa that sold slaves to the British. Slaves were typically captured in raids.

[MrMan]

Reparations have taken place in the United States since the 1960s. Ironically, it was before these reparations existed that black families were far more intact, and black middle classes were far more cohesive and identifiable. It was AFTER social programs targeting blacks were implemented that the poorest blacks became the ones who reproduced the most and served to define the entire ethnicity.

I hear before the social programs in the 1960's, about 80% of black households has a father in the home. Now, about 65% of black households are single parents households.

I've got an idea. Just for blacks, if they get EBT or TANF, the programs could have a different name, "Perpetual Dependency Reparations Food Program" and "Temporary Reparations Cash Program."

[Yohan]

Slavery was made illegal in the United States in December 1865. 155 years ago. To ask now solely because of your black race for reparations is ridiculous, just my opinion.

Not all poor people are black and not all white people are rich - I wonder how you can even prove that you are a descent of a slave as black people now are likely generation 4, what kind of documents could that be?

It is true that some white families in USA are really very rich because of inheritance of land ownership and that black slaves contributed to their wealth.

However not all white people - I would say the huge majority - had the fortune to inherit from ancestors in the States.

Same you can say about Europe - there are plenty of rich families in Europe, often related to the church, royals and landowners, owners of trading companies, shipping companies etc. and their descents inherited a fortune - often entire castles, factories ....

I myself was able to trace back my ancestors up to around 1520, as Catholic Church registration about birth, marriage and death and grave locations was very carefully managed over 500 years and so I know I am generation 9 - but nobody left me even one single coin or a tiny piece of land. They all were uneducated workers, maids, etc. they never owned anything...

Nevertheless I was never thinking about claiming reparations from European rich descents of royals, church or landowners...

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Reparations have taken place in the United States since the 1960s. Ironically, it was before these reparations existed that black families were far more intact, and black middle classes were far more cohesive and identifiable. It was AFTER social programs targeting blacks were implemented that the poorest blacks became the ones who reproduced the most and served to define the entire ethnicity.

I hear before the social programs in the 1960's, about 80% of black households has a father in the home. Now, about 65% of black households are single parents households.

I've got an idea. Just for blacks, if they get EBT or TANF, the programs could have a different name, "Perpetual Dependency Reparations Food Program" and "Temporary Reparations Cash Program."

The far worse statistic is that 73% of black children are being reared by single parents (about 70% single mothers). "The Narrative"
has always been that black fathers don't want to rear their children. But black underclass culture is anti-father so these women INSIST that the fathers stay away in all ways but child support payments. In many cases these men would be less than ideal fathers, but the number 1 predictor of future criminality and anti-social pathology is a single mother upbringing. That is what is ignored and that is what has decimated the black population because these single mothers have the most children while the most educated have few or none at all.

About the reparations, I and all reasonable people are against them. It is just a complaint strategy for more government intervention and funding. But don't forget that there are more whites on welfare than blacks. The proportion is just higher among blacks.

[yick]

What I would do is this and I think this would work. In places that were strongholds of slavery (the confederacy) offer Americans who could prove they were the ancestors of slaves tax breaks, free college education (or a free pathway to college education...) mortgage breaks, monetary help for businesses.

This wouldn't be available for every black person - a first generation African-American of Nigerian or Somalian parentage wouldn't be eligible and nor would black people living in Seattle or Des Moines because it didn't happen there - it happened in certain places to certain parts of the population.

Millions of blacks migrated from the South to northern cities in the early and middle 20th centuries to work in the factories. A significant number of them all over the country are related to slaves. I don't see how this would work.

It could work but obviously the will isn't there - it's an idea because what's certain is that black people aren't leaving the United States - they will be there as long as it exists and this debate isn't going away either. I think if we contain this idea within the southern states and they have to go back there to reap these imagined benefits - it's something that I have thought of from top of my head - I don't see why it can't work. It's not - give all black people a free ride - it's give historically disadvantaged people who suffered discrimination in that country a leg up. We don't have to go back all that far - 1965... and sundown towns were around as late as the 1980's.

[Cornfed]

In fact their ancestors would have been killed. Black slaves were generally sold to whites and Jews by other blacks because they were captured in battle, were criminals or in other circumstances where they would otherwise have been killed. Therefore if modern blacks want to rectify the situation that slavery brought about, surely they should just kill themselves.

From what I've read, there were a few African kingdoms in west Africa that sold slaves to the British. Slaves were typically captured in raids.

If you mean by whites I would doubt it given that white men really couldn't survive long in the tropical African interior prior to modern medicine. Maybe they paid natives to carry out raids sometimes.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

In fact their ancestors would have been killed. Black slaves were generally sold to whites and Jews by other blacks because they were captured in battle, were criminals or in other circumstances where they would otherwise have been killed. Therefore if modern blacks want to rectify the situation that slavery brought about, surely they should just kill themselves.

From what I've read, there were a few African kingdoms in west Africa that sold slaves to the British. Slaves were typically captured in raids.

Actually MOST African slaves were either criminals or captured warriors from rival tribes. Unlike the false narrative portrayed in the media, whites did not go on expeditions in the hinterlands hunting down blacks.

It got to the point where some tribes attacked others for the sole purpose of capturing slaves to be sold.

One thing to note is that only about 300,000 native Africans were sold as slaves in the United States. Other countries like Brazil took in millions.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

@MrMan @Yick Please study this graphic and see if it changes your opinion about the need for slavery reparations. I, for one, am against any such program. If there is anything to be done, it should be CLASS-BASED and blacks would benefit disproportionately. But race-based assistance is unworkable, divisive, and downright unnecessary.



If this graphic surprises you, it is because black Americans have allowed themselves to be DEFINED by the poorest among them. Middle class blacks and certainly affluent blacks are thought to be rare or not even exist. This is false and part of the Left's misinformation strategy.

So 55% of blacks are middle class or above. This gets lost too much because the media and the Left want it to be lost.

For all of its problems, the United States represents the country where a black person has the best change and opportunity to rise from poverty to affluence. Many don't realize this so they don't take advantage of it, but but this shows that more do than do not.

Thoughts?

[yick]

@MrMan @Yick Please study this graphic and see if it changes your opinion about the need for slavery reparations. I, for one, am against any such program. If there is anything to be done, it should be CLASS-BASED and blacks would benefit disproportionately. But race-based assistance is unworkable, divisive, and downright unnecessary.



If this graphic surprises you, it is because black Americans have allowed themselves to be DEFINED by the poorest among them. Middle class blacks and certainly affluent blacks are thought to be rare or not even exist. This is false and part of the Left's misinformation strategy.

So 55% of blacks are middle class or above. This gets lost too much because the media and the Left want it to be lost.

For all of its problems, the United States represents the country where a black person has the best change and opportunity to rise from poverty to affluence. Many don't realize this so they don't take advantage of it, but but this shows that more do than do not.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I suppose and help people of all races who are poor but then we have a social welfare state - which I think is a good idea but I think that might have less legs than actual repatriations towards African-Americans descended of slaves.

It's not to say that that there aren't black people in America who aren't doing very well, of course there are, but you have 45% who are angry or unhappy - saying that, African immigrants have the highest academic qualifications out of all immigrants to the United States these days. Maybe that will change the culture, who knows.

[MrMan]

It could work but obviously the will isn't there - it's an idea because what's certain is that black people aren't leaving the United States - they will be there as long as it exists and this debate isn't going away either. I think if we contain this idea within the southern states and they have to go back there to reap these imagined benefits - it's something that I have thought of from top of my head - I don't see why it can't work. It's not - give all black people a free ride - it's give historically disadvantaged people who suffered discrimination in that country a leg up. We don't have to go back all that far - 1965... and sundown towns were around as late as the 1980's.

Politically, having the federal government pay reparations...but only to the blacks in southern states... doesn't make any sense. I'm not in favor of reparations. I would be more in favor for them for American Indians in cases where the government went back on its word with their nation and took the reservation back. But if the government paid reparations to only blacks in southern states, the ones up north would be upset. After the Civil War, a lot of blacks moved from the south to work in factories up north. The vast majority of blacks in nothernern states are descendants of slaves. They wouldn't like your suggestion at all. There would be an outcry. It's better to give no reparations at all.

If states were giving out money, it might be a different story.