Should we agree Levantines are not Arabs?

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theprimebait
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Should we agree Levantines are not Arabs?

Post by theprimebait »

Levantines(Syrians,Palestinians,Lebanese)are considered Arabs by most people and unfortunetely they consider themselves as such aswell.the Truth is that Levantines are Eastern mediterenean and are culturally Greek and Aramaic moreso than Arab.

we don't have arab features,skin colouring and culture.

the Levant is a diverse religious place,in palestine atleast 30 % of all palestinians are Christians,overseas almost every palestinian is a Christian,and they are usually dominating in bussiness and commerce.palestinians,lebanese and syriacs are well-respected in south america for their wealth and contributuons to their new homelands.
if we were arabs they would be muslim.their existance proves that we are Arabized,but not Arab.


Lebanese people also live in africa in huge numbers,as bussinessmen.we are the Chinese and Jews of africa (or south america).

this is not surprising seeing that we are descendants of the phoenicians.a seafaring people that traded with almost every people on earth from britain,sicily to scandinavia and some say even native americans(Phoenician coins have been discovered in the amazon rainforest).

our Genetic input is strong in greece,italy,spain,south france.

http://phoenicia.org/colonies.html

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We have a mixture of Greek,Aramaic,and Jewish in our blood.

in Levantine churches Aramaic is still spoken and even many muslims from syria,palestine and lebanon can understand this language.

syrians:

1- indigenous deep-rooted Syrians (The Original population ) : are characterised by Mediterranean European features ( mainly like : Greece, Italy, and Balkan region ), these are mainly White-skinned, brown-haired with exceptions (Dominint trait Hereditary ).and Brown, green ,Hazel and blue eyed. there were living all over Syria. But nowadays, they live in Damascus, Homs, Aleppo, Syrian coast and Hama ( the western, North and middle parts of Syria ), they are mostly Muslim Sunnis. there are also the Alawite branch of Shia Muslims, there are also the Ismailis ( known historically as the Assassins ). there are also Christians, but not as the second group.

syrians are arameans that were Arabized.alot of Greeks too.in syria msot syriansa re muslim while the diaspora is mostly Christian.

Lebanese:

a wide array of origins.the coastal sunnis are descendants of phoenicians.the mountainous Maronites are descendants of syrians from al-Hama province.the Druze are descendants of local people mixed with kurds,some Arab tribes,and even Jews.



Palestinians:

wide array of origins.most palestinians are descendants of Jews.up until the 9th century it was still a predominately Jewish place.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai#Hebrew_origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misin ... rabization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai#Samaritans

another section of palestinians are descendants of Samaritans,Especially in Nablus.

Arabs:after the region of palestine became a economic hub when the British took over,alot of egyptians migrated to Ghaza.most Ghazans look different to other palestinians because they are egyptians.


Levantine arabic and culture is more refiend than that of Arabs:

lets be non-poltically correct here,Arabic is a horrible sounding language to non-Arabs in General.however Levantines are the only ''arabs''that have a nice version of this dialect,influenced by Aramaic of course and levantine love for beauty,we beautified the world's ugliest language(after viet)







our pronouncation is different because we don't pronounce the Qaf,we replace the hard Dhaa with a zaa.and we don't overemphasize the a3yn.grammar is a bit different too,but its no chance that lebanese dialect is most popular in arabic music and pop.

Levantine culture appreciattes beauty ,intellect hospitality and art:

most of the byzantine art,Greek art,christian philosophy etc came from the levant.levantine people are laid back and kind,sharing to visitors and people.its an insult to say its Arab,because it ignores our long Aramean,Jewish,canaanite,and Byzantine history.


Phenotype :

Levantine arabs are usually pinkish white to light sunkissed skin(look at any lebanese or palestinian porno amateur and see how the genitals are pink like white peoples)with dark hair and light brown to hazel eyes(although alot of us do have dark eyes).

our features are more delicate than arabs aswell.by all accounts from visitors and observers we are simpely universally attractive.the men have masculine features and decent builds,and women rave about lebanese men everywhere.

the women are very feminine having full lips,long thick hair,and amazing curves.they (and us the men.lol)have beautifull eyes.hence the term arab eyes.it didn't come from saudis,it means levantine eyes.usually big with a almond shape.
















the men are usually dimorphic

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in the next post I'll post some pics of everyday levantines.[youtube][/youtube]


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ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

Well, there are several schools of thought regarding this subject. The same goes for the definition of an "Arab". There are several.

Also, who decides those things? Me?You? Or the majority of the Arab world and the Arab League?

National, racial and ethnic labelings are arbitrary and artificial constructs, anyway. But governments make them official.

The most common definition of an Arab is a citizen of an Arab country whose first language is Arabic and who thinks of himself as an Arab.

Since those Levantine countries are members of the Arab League, and since they do not speak Phoenician or Aramaic as their first language and do not practice those cultures to the point where one can see it in their music, literature, dress, speech etc., they are Arabs "now".

What they were a long time ago is just ancestry. Even the "proper" Arabs of Saudi and Yemen must have descended from someone else, too.

Palestinians do have Jewish haplogroups, true but they've also mixed with so many other races who have come to the Holy Land. Armenian, Greek, Russian, etc. Everyone is mixed there. So, mainly, it is not the race but the culture and communal consensus as well as government definitions that decide it now.

When Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, etc., leave the Arab League, reestablish Aramaic/Phoenician speaking cultures and officially declare themselves as Levantine non-Arabs, and become so recognized by their neighbors, then this can be formally declared by me and you, too.
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theprimebait
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Post by theprimebait »

ladislav wrote:Well, there are several schools of thought regarding this subject. The same goes for the definition of an "Arab". There are several.

Also, who decides those things? Me?You? Or the majority of the Arab world and the Arab League?

National, racial and ethnic labelings are arbitrary and artificial constructs, anyway. But governments make them official.

The most common definition of an Arab is a citizen of an Arab country whose first language is Arabic and who thinks of himself as an Arab.

Since those Levantine countries are members of the Arab League, and since they do not speak Phoenician or Aramaic as their first language and do not practice those cultures to the point where one can see it in their music, literature, dress, speech etc., they are Arabs "now".

What they were a long time ago is just ancestry. Even the "proper" Arabs of Saudi and Yemen must have descended from someone else, too.

Palestinians do have Jewish haplogroups, true but they've also mixed with so many other races who have come to the Holy Land. Armenian, Greek, Russian, etc. Everyone is mixed there. So, mainly, it is not the race but the culture and communal consensus as well as government definitions that decide it now.

When Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, etc., leave the Arab League, reestablish Aramaic/Phoenician speaking cultures and officially declare themselves as Levantine non-Arabs, and become so recognized by their neighbors, then this can be formally declared by me and you, too.
Armenian dna is very low to nonexistant in palestinians.even in 1948 there were only 2000 of them living in the armenian quarter of Jerusalem.they are Endogamous and only married other church members.not rural peasants.although it is higher in Lebanese(also recent due to them fleeing there to escape Turkish persecutions).

and russian?never heard of that.

but Race is much more than culture.is you understand the Arab distinctions between A'rab and musta'arab you will see this.Palestinians don't belong to Tribes.Arabs do.all arab tribes can be traced back to the Arabian peninsula of the 7th century.for example Iraqis are REAL arabs,all their Tribes can be traced to Arabia,many of their biggest tribes played alot of influence in mohamed's life.

would you say Sephardic and Mizrahic Jews are Arabs aswell?they(up until 1960's)spoke Arabic as their day to day language and hebrew/Aramaic only in their liturgies.they ate''Arab food''(well levantine food),wore Arab like clothing,and had Arabized names.

but they still considered themselves bani israail.how is that different for the Levantine Christians who may speak a so called Arabic dialect in formal settings,but mix it with Aramaic phrases,and also have a Aramaic religious culture?Greek names?feel more kinship with Greeks than Saudis?

I can tell you right now ,most lebanese consider themselves Phoenicians,its only the sunni ruling elites who continue the whole Arab country thing,most lebanese christians will not agree.

the phoenician alphabet is being retaught to the younger generation.alot of muslims even,getting DNA tests,showing up phoenician blood.
theprimebait
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Post by theprimebait »

One people's blood alot of Palestinians have is bosnian!


I do agree they are a mix of Jewish,Aramean,Canaanite,Roman,Bosnian and Hellenic peoples.
Billy
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Post by Billy »

why bosnians?
ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

When in Israel the youth chant "Death to Arabs", they mean exactly the groups you described above. They don't chant "Death to Phoenecians".
Last edited by ladislav on December 22nd, 2013, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

Bosnians are Slavic Muslims who went on pilgrimage to Jerusalem and stayed there.

I have had Levantine coworkers and some said they were not Arabs and some said they were. The problem is this is all non official. AFAIK, there is no document anywhere in the Arab world that is stamped with the word " Arab". Only with Jinseeya

The only place where they mark people like that is Israel where Palestinians who are Israeli nationals are officially registered as "Arabs". There have not been any demonstrations on their part at which they chant- "We are Phoenicians, we are not Arabs". The Israeli Supreme Court did not receive a petition from them to change the Arab ethnicity to "Phoenician". There have been Jews, though, who tried to change the Jewish ethnicity to "Israeli" in official papers but the court rejected the request.

And, Primebait, I agree with you that some are real /original Arabs and some are musta-arab- Arabized. And there are Arabs who consider Arabic-speaking Jews as Arabs. They even go as far as considering any Khawaja who speaks Arabic as an Arab, too. So, it's an ongoing debate.

This debate does not go on outside of the Arab world, though. You speak Arabic, your name is Hassan, Khalid, Mahmoud, etc.? You are an Arab.

The new definition of Arab by the Arab League is :

" An Arab is a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic-speaking country, and who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic-speaking peoples".

There's no mention of race, descent, original/non-original, religion, etc. Only of language and place of residence. And they seem to be the authority who defines it. Not me, not you.

So, the revivalists of the Phoenecianism in Lebanon, Syria, etc., have to tackle this definition first. Then, they will have to leave the Arab League and formally announce it to the world.
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theprimebait
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Post by theprimebait »

How do the ARABS define arabness?thru nasiba.

thru sabbiyah.

if your paternal line going back 1000 yrs is arab even if you are nordic or black as night,to arabs you are arab.arab culture and arabs themselves(the bedouins and the real tribal arabs of saudi arabia,oman,al-yemen and Iraq)consider this the definition of an arab.not culture or language.not even appearance.you can look like mike tyson or Chris Hemsworth and if your father is arab or just your great great grandfather in your paternal line,you are ARAB.but if you look 100 % arab,but your mom is arab and your dad is lets say Persian(who look arab but are indo-european)you are NOT an arab.even if your male line continued to marry arab women for generations,they would NOT be considered arab.

this is HOW arabs define arab.I could care less about some modern definition .


up until about 400 yrs ago,the Levant still spoke aramaic.levantines are white skinned,have straight hair,more Med features.Arabs are brown skinned,have curly to nappy hair,and have very semitic features.they are honestely speaking,desert adapted ethiopians.
theprimebait
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Post by theprimebait »

My father is blonde hair and blue eyes.my brother is blonde hair and blue eyes.my aunts are all redheads(ginger not auburn or brownish red,I mean real red and fair skin that can light a room during the night),aswell as my grandfather on both sides of my family.I am dark haired but I inherited that from my mom who's mom was dark(her father is redhaired-light eyes and pale type 1 skin)..I know countless palestinians that have this story.I also know alot of lebanese people with legit blonde hair .in fact most levantines are blonde as children,Aleppo in syria is 50 % or so Redhaired.

how would this be possible if we were the SAME race as dark Yemenis

like this

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???
ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

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A Phoenician and a Pharaonian forming a United Arab republic. How come?
Last edited by ladislav on February 7th, 2014, 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

Well, then we must say that there are two schools of thought- the traditional definition- by bloodline, and the modern definition - that of the Arab league.

Which one is correct is up for debate. Some people will say the first, some will say the second. There's no official documentation stating that a person is an Arab or not in birth certificate. So, it boils down to personal or group definitions and they vary.

Officially now, Syria and Egypt are called Arab republics. They were once united as the United Arab republic. Why? Why did they not call themselves a United Phoenician-Pharaonic republic?

There was a movement in Egypt once, and some people believe in it still, that Egyptians are not Arabs. But officially and now, they are.

I guess the definition of an Arab has changed, at least as far as membership in the Arab League. They even accepted Somalia into it now. So, I guess what did not used to be Arab is now Arab
.I could care less about some modern definition .
Well, then I hope that your opinion and " not caring" about some modern definition will impress these people here:

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to the point that they will kick out Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Jordan.

And I have seen your pictures and I agree with what you are saying. Darker Semites vs. lighter skinned Mediterranean looking Semites. But if Arab is not a race but a culture, then the second definition makes sense. Now, you have a formidable Arab League to convince and contend with. And pull all these non Arab countries out of it Ouch! No more Saudi funding!
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theprimebait
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Post by theprimebait »

LOL the creator of the Ba'ath party was a Greek called michele aflaq.biggest arab nationalist party created by non-arabs.lmao

the christians of the levant do not consider themselves arabs!

the real arabs consider us musta'arab!

christian arabs created arab nationalism,and alawites supported it because then the muslims wouldn't opress them but see themselves as arabs and religion irrelevant.
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dorpwnz
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Re: Should we agree Levantines are not Arabs?

Post by dorpwnz »

Only today's jews are jews ,not both the jews and the arab in israel /palestinian authority
im a jew and i have an identity ,which no arab shares with me,as my grandpas are from iraq and kurdistan but my dna is roman era- jew.
And as one who lives here i can tell - and go to check if u want - it's illegal to convert from islam to christianity in the palestinian authority. and it's funny because there are more christian arabs in there than in israel...
it's not just about the name - we are the only descendants.
Adama
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Re: Should we agree Levantines are not Arabs?

Post by Adama »

It doesnt matter. It is only a matter of time before Israel wipes them and their genetic lineage off the map. They want Palestine, Lebanon and Syria all to themselves. They are currently genociding the Palestinians. When Syria falls, I bet they will move to crush Lebanon next. Then they'll just slowly starve them to death, poison their water, bomb their homes, prevent foreign aid in the form of food and medicine from entering their territory, and other acts of genocide and war. This next 50-100 years will be very interesting.

No one really cares about DNA anyhow. That's another neat little hobby to distract yourself with.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Jonny Law
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Re: Should we agree Levantines are not Arabs?

Post by Jonny Law »

-NEWSFLASH-
Dirty Arab bastards were Christians hundreds of years before any were Muslim.

And since you do not know the definition of Arab.

Arabs are defined as a dirty bastards who are from a country that speaks Arabic as its native language.
Arabs (Arabic:, arab) are a major panethnic group whose native language is Arabic, comprising the majority of the Arab world. They primarily inhabit Western Asia, North Africa, and parts of the Horn of Africa.
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