Herman Cain: Racism doesn't hold blacks back in a big way

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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: Cain is dead wrong!

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

ErikHeaven wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pL-4_JI ... ure=colike
I remember in the 80's (Yeah i am an old dude!) on the applications they had must not wear an afro or dreadlocks. There was an uproar regarding this and you do not see that on applications anymore. I disagree with you Contrarian we have to get out of that go along to get along attitude. If one is qualified in every sense of the word and can do the job why should we Black Americans be forced to change our looks to please white aesthetics?
If we follow that logic one day some white people will require us to bleach our skin in order to get hired.
Here is my story i worked at a Denny's many years ago and my boss was a female Italian woman. She was telling me over and over again how she could not find an assistant manager as no one was applying. I told a dark skinned black man in my building to apply as i knew him for awhile and i knew he had an extensive history as manager's in restaurants in the south, and he had a bachelors in culinary arts.
She said to me tell him to come down. He did and went she met him she had this look of shock on her face. She interviewed him and 30 minutes later she walked up to the front and threw his resume in the garbage. 1 month later she hired a white woman way older than him that did not have a college degree.
So there is still racism in America for Black Americans and Mr Cain's mentality of try harder or just fit in and be quiet is not working for Black America or White America.
It has to stop and this is what some parts of these current protests are all about.
ErikHeavan you are all over the place, and at the same time, nowhere. No one has asserted that racism does not exist. Why don't you try to read my post again to understand the point instead of hysterically crying that someone is attempting to take your "racism blanket" away from you.

Also, if I tell a white man that he must cut off his mullet or long hair before I hire him, he will likely do so if he wants the job because that is not the image I want to project in my organization. The same goes for the black man in dreads who will, instead of comporting himself in a manner conducive to getting a job, will cry like you about having to make adjustments in himself before being hired. Any man, black or otherwise, who is unemployed and whines about grooming standards is unemployable and does not deserve a job in my book. You are the type of devil that will tell black boys that they should not HAVE to speak correct English, or dress appropriately, or conduct themselves in a mainstream manner. Because of black devils like you, black boys fail and have not chance. You are worse than the racist in my view because you poison black people to undermine their own progress with cries of "why should we have to?" Go straight to hell and burn with that sh.t!

Finally, your stupid example of the manager is of someone as foolish as you. If that incident occurred the way you explained, the black applicant should have filed a compliant with the EEOC or state-level employment discrimination commission which would have brought a lawsuit on his behalf. But noooooo, he took it up the rear end and cried himself to sleep because he had no basic knowledge of what laws exist to prohibit such conduct on the part of employers.

I am getting to the point where I believe the greater portion of black people are next to worthless. They literally look for reasons not to succeed just so they can suck their thumbs and remain under the "racism blanket" and remain failures. I am only interesting in critical-thinking black people. I am only interested in people willing to go the extra mile and those who are not excuse-oriented. ErikHeaven, you fail; but don't cause black young people to fail because of your defeatism!
Last edited by Contrarian Expatriate on October 11th, 2011, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Contrarian Expatriate
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Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

ladislav wrote:Just because it did not hold "him" back, does not mean it is not holding anybody else back. I really hate it when people who had not encountered social hardship say- "Oh, never happened to me."

Here in Angeles City a lot of people had been robbed at gun point and an acquaintance of mine has just been shot dead here. But, it has never happened to me. Hence, it should not be a problem. Yeah, right.

"it is ill talking between a full man and a fasting" as the old proverb says, as he simply cannot relate to the people who are being held back, There are folks that are just lucky in a way that in addition to making efforts, they are supported by some kind of good karma. So, they become exceptions to the rule trying to prove that the "rule" does not exist.

One thing is certain though, racism is real and still very strong and race bigotry should be seen as a real obstacle and not imaginary, and one way to counteract and control it- since it cannot be "overcome" as some people claim, is by having very very good qualifications that make you indispensable and by realizing that you need to be better that those people who are of a more "popular" race.

It also helps to have strong anti discrimination laws - they cannot eliminate discrimination completely but they significantly reduce it.
And, ultimately to combine the hopeless racially divided America with less race- conscious countries where one can just be an American. Not an Italian, a Black or a Mexican, have normal friends of all races, enjoy female company and just live a normal, relaxed life instead of becoming a brooding, angry racist person oneself because one confuses 'America' with ' the world' and hyphenated Americans with the 'real McCoys' who are almost always friendlier.

Indians and even Brits move to the US to escape the vicious and divisive class/caste systems back home and Americans can do the same by adding a few friendlier countries in their action package to lessen racism to insignificant levels.

As I get older I realize that some social ills simply cannot be eliminated or completely avoided- at least not within several lifetimes. They can be reduced in your life, though to the level where they do not interfere with daily living to the point of making it full of suffering and great stress. If racism is a taxi driver overcharging you 20c or talking to your girlfriend instead of you ( because he assumes you cannot speak the language) it is annoying as hell, but if it happens rarely, it is OK. If someone makes a remark once every couple of years about your ethnicity/ nationality but it does not affect 95% of your life it is good enough. If you can have a flow of income, regular friends who are not racially limited and date most local ladies, it is also good enough.
Ladislav, I did not know you were such an expert on being black in the United States! Well, your expert card on the subject is hereby revoked. Unless you have functioned in the USA as a black person, spare us your pontifications. Yours is a position of ignorance, and not experience in this matter so save it for commentary on your travels or the former Soviet Union or some other topic in which you have wisdom and expertise. You have none in this subject.

Now, before I cut into your opinion above, I need to tell your "Oh, never happened to me" explanation is incorrect. No one is saying that it never happened to them, we are saying that racism is not enough to keep from being successful in America.
Yes, I have had racist experiences. I can tell you that as a black American, there are legions of white people who are fair-minded and they grossly outnumber the racist ones. You also need to know that BLACK AMERICANS are more likely to undermine your progress than whites! Yes, I said it. Blacks are more likely to commit crimes against other blacks. Blacks are more likely to deride other blacks' progress under the "crab in the barrel syndrome." Blacks are more likely to view new blacks in the workplace as professional threats. Black people are their own worst enemy in America, but conventional wisdom says that it is whites that are. Yeah, I said it!

I really believe that people like you wish to perpetuate the "Yes, black people. Racism is EVERYWHERE and you cannot expect to succeed in life because of it so don't even try!" This is psychologically devastating to those who have not made it and to young black people who for some reason might listen to someone like you. Deep down, you do not want black people to succeed so you JUSTIFY their false suspicions thereby ensure their underachievement. You are almost as vile as the ErickHeavens among us.

This "racism blanket" is not part of Jamaican Americans, or Trini Americans or other blacks from other countries who succeed at far greater rates than native black Americans. Why is that? It is because these cultures do not pre-justify their own failures and later undermine them by wearing dreadlocks to the corporate job interview!
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Re: Cain is dead wrong!

Post by E_Irizarry »

ErikHeaven wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pL-4_JI ... ure=colike
I remember in the 80's (Yeah i am an old dude!) on the applications they had must not wear an afro or dreadlocks. There was an uproar regarding this and you do not see that on applications anymore. I disagree with you Contrarian we have to get out of that go along to get along attitude. If one is qualified in every sense of the word and can do the job why should we Black Americans be forced to change our looks to please white aesthetics?
If we follow that logic one day some white people will require us to bleach our skin in order to get hired.
Here is my story i worked at a Denny's many years ago and my boss was a female Italian woman. She was telling me over and over again how she could not find an assistant manager as no one was applying. I told a dark skinned black man in my building to apply as i knew him for awhile and i knew he had an extensive history as manager's in restaurants in the south, and he had a bachelors in culinary arts.
She said to me tell him to come down. He did and went she met him she had this look of shock on her face. She interviewed him and 30 minutes later she walked up to the front and threw his resume in the garbage. 1 month later she hired a white woman way older than him that did not have a college degree.
So there is still racism in America for Black Americans and Mr Cain's mentality of try harder or just fit in and be quiet is not working for Black America or White America.
It has to stop and this is what some parts of these current protests are all about.
Erik, man.

Let's get the nationalities right: that bigoted bitch was Italian-American. Not Italian. Most Italians aren't bigoted like their average Italian-American distant spawn.
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ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

Contrarian

You are good! I enjoy being put in my place in such a humorous manner. My apologies! I really do not know what it is like to be a black man in the US and no matter how much I observe and interview and study, I must admit I cannot inhabit a black man's body and walk in it and experience America from that person's point of view.

However, my point was not that racism was not an unconquerable force that one needs to resign oneself to and just mope about the house doing nothing. Professionally it is not too hard to overcome- study for very technical professions and/or apply with jobs where your talent is needed or struggle for one's civil rights and sue. It is a never ending fight and those who choose to carry it on have my admiration. However, the atmosphere in the US is still tense and charged with racial consciousness and animosity and grudges, and the social apartheid will take a long time to overcome. It may take centuries, even notwithstanding the best of efforts, for America to become a One Nation Under God. So my solution to that is to add a few other countries where you can live and do well and swim socially in those ponds or do business with them, and with America, too, but do look for a more pleasant environment where you can just be a normal relaxed person while keeping US citizenship and enjoying what America has to offer as well in a combination with those. I have seen black guys do that and they look happy and relaxed. In the US most blacks do not look happy at all. That was basically my point.
Last edited by ladislav on October 11th, 2011, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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E_Irizarry
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Post by E_Irizarry »

Hey guys. Bill Cosby said pretty much what Contrarian Expatriate is saying here.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

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ErikHeaven
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Point by point

Post by ErikHeaven »

ErikHeavan you are all over the place, and at the same time, nowhere. No one has asserted that racism does not exist. Why don't you try to read my post again to understand the point instead of hysterically crying that someone is attempting to take your "racism blanket" away from you.

Also, if I tell a white man that he must cut off his mullet or long hair before I hire him, he will likely do so if he wants the job because that is not the image I want to project in my organization. The same goes for the black man in dreads who will, instead of comporting himself in a manner conducive to getting a job, will cry like you about having to make adjustments in himself before being hired. Any man, black or otherwise, who is unemployed and whines about grooming standards is unemployable and does not deserve a job in my book. You are the type of devil that will tell black boys that they should not HAVE to speak correct English, or dress appropriately, or conduct themselves in a mainstream manner. Because of black devils like you, black boys fail and have not chance. You are worse than the racist in my view because you poison black people to undermine their own progress with cries of "why should we have to?" Go straight to hell and burn with that sh.t!

Finally, your stupid example of the manager is of someone as foolish as you. If that incident occurred the way you explained, the black applicant should have filed a compliant with the EEOC or state-level employment discrimination commission which would have brought a lawsuit on his behalf. But noooooo, he took it up the rear end and cried himself to sleep because he had no basic knowledge of what laws exist to prohibit such conduct on the part of employers.

I am getting to the point where I believe the greater portion of black people are next to worthless. They literally look for reasons not to succeed just so they can suck their thumbs and remain under the "racism blanket" and remain failures. I am only interesting in critical-thinking black people. I am only interested in people willing to go the extra mile and those who are not excuse-oriented. ErikHeaven, you fail; but don't cause black young people to fail because of your defeatism!
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Post by ErikHeaven »

Your making things up about myself telling people not to speak correct english or looking for reasons not to succeed. You need to stop putting words in other peoples mouths. Secondly i am not crying you are becoming hysterical on this post.
You have that same spirit as go along to get along Cain. You by your words want to be acceptable. I think people should accept people as they are. Some blacks wear dreadlocks some do not. Who should be the final arbiter of what is acceptable and what is not? Do not tell me i fail as if you knew me. You do not.
Actually my message to younger Black Americans is if you can start your own business and do not try to fit in like the Cain's of this world. Do not give up your own identity and ethnic pride for a paycheck. Start your own business and wear your braids and do you. I am not defeated i work 2 jobs and have kept working in this recession so you should stop the hysterics.
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Post by ErikHeaven »

Secondly that black brother that came in the for the interview came in with a suit and tie, he had a bald head and a bald face and he fit in. And regardless of the fact that he did not sue was his personal decision. Its none of our business. Such suits are hard to prove.
So my point was there is still much racism against American Blacks especially in NYS where i live. In the south blacks probably have it much better.
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Post by ErikHeaven »

Oh the Caribbean blacks and African blacks are doing way better than American blacks? Tell that to the Bob Johnson and many other Black American billionaires. Oprah and many other several hundred millionaires like Sean Combs. American blacks are not lazy and we started trends all over the world.
I forget Russel Simmons as well.
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Post by ErikHeaven »

Also some people wear dreadlocks as it is a part of their religion. And religious discrimination is against the law here. Some people wear beards for religious purposes as well too. Corporate America is about the power tie and for Black Americans its about the shiny suit and bald head and no facial hair and being fake and listening to corny stories and corny jokes.
I like Sir Richard Branson's business model he works on a house boat with a few other people and they smoke weed all day and he is a billionaire.
He marches to the beat of his own drum. He sets trends and is not a follower.
ErikHeaven
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Black Elitists

Post by ErikHeaven »

http://youtu.be/LdryBBvGo8M
I voted for and supported a black senator where i live. He knew me personally. I asked him to help me on a simple matter. When he got elected he would not return my phone calls. This is what many of our people do to each other.
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Post by onezero4u »

orignially this Cain guy got my interest, then i read his bio....he is a total insider and NWO globalist dupe. Fed board appoiintee????? c'mon thats for illuminati folk.

anyhow, about the racism thing...hes mostly right....most racism obstacles to success evaporated decades ago & in its place are actually step stools to success if you look for them. (affirmative action...afro relief funds...minority grants etc etc)
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Contrarian Expatriate
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Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

onezero4u wrote:...about the racism thing...hes mostly right....most racism obstacles to success evaporated decades ago & in its place are actually step stools to success if you look for them. (affirmative action...afro relief funds...minority grants etc etc)
You are spot on but you can't tell that to most black people from the US. They will dare you to tell them that they don't have it harder than any other group in the world. You see, an excuse to remain a black shiftless loser is to cry that racism is holding you back.

I for one, am done with black people like that. I have no time for them. They are a waste of time, effort and resources. You cannot save the unsaveable and you cannot save people from themselves.
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Re: Thank you Ladislav

Post by NorthAmericanguy »

ErikHeaven wrote:And even Oprah was denied getting into a swanky store in NYC after hours even though she has known herself as the queen of the universe. Lenny kravitz back in the day could not get a cab in NYC, same as Denzel Washington. So yes sometimes even rich blacks get the shaft. .
As a African I prefer to avoid doing business with other Africans. Why? Because they are RUDE, they want everything done super cheap, business transactions tend to fall through, they don't tip well, and depending on where you are you could be set up for robbery. Female prostitutes have said the same thing about black men which is why some prostitutes won't even consider a black man for a "date".

So even though I'm not a cab driver, I can understand why a cab driver would not want to pick up a black man; especially in NYC! Oh, and just because Oprah has money that does not mean that she's very liberal with her money. In her personal life she might be a penny pinching shrewd who expects preferential treatment and nobody wants to deal with her.

You figure to have a store open just for 2-3 people cost money even if you don't buy anything and maybe she did not want to pay the fee to shop in private because she's "Oprah". It could be nothing to do with that she's black.
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To Mr Above The Fray!

Post by ErikHeaven »

I never said that racism will prevent anybody especially black Americans from becoming something i said its a reality. You can still make it whatever your definition of making it is. I have no criminal record and carry a legal weapon everyday. You might say i made it. And many of my brother's that have felonies do not. I get jobs that people that have felonies do not so i guess you can i say i made it. And even then i do not look down on my people i try to uplift people. I get angry many times at my people yet i do not look down on them. That is the difference between a black elitist with cash and no moral wealth.
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