Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities?

[Winston]

I think the main topic is if free will exists and I think free will does not exist.

Another point of interest could be if one accepts that free will does not exist does his life style change?

Count your blessings is a classic way to raise ones mood or happiness. One interesting part could be that gratitude can make one less risktaking and therefore maybe regret being too grateful because of FOMO.

First of all, I told you before, it is not a matter of "yes free will exists" or "no it does not". The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Why do you think in terms of extremes, like atheists and religious fundamentalists? Both are highly flawed and wrong. Most likely the truth is that there is some free will if you are highly conscious and not brain dead or a lemming, but that free will is a SMALL FACTOR not a big factor like most Americans, Christians, and New Agers claim. They act like free will is an all powerful divine principle without restriction or impediment. That just isn't so for obvious reasons such as the 14 I gave above. Again it's not black or white, but gray. Wise people know this.

You say there is no free will. But you are assuming that brain creates consciousness and that consciousness is an illusion. Suppose consciousness is divine and immaterial and the spirit world is real. Then what? By definition if you are conscious then you must have some free will. Because consciousness is not a robot. It's divine and beyond material matter. Why don't you consider that? Are you not conscious or self-aware? lol. Are you a bot? If so then you assume others are too but that's a fallacy. We are not all bots like you.

If everyone believed there was no free will at all, they would become depressed and not do anything. There would be no hope to keep people moving and working and striving. People need hope, even if it's false hope, or else they cannot function. That's why everyone always tells themselves "tomorrow will be better, tomorrow is a brighter future" over and over again for all time. It's a false illusion. Usually tomorrow is the same. And even if things get better, they will get worse again. Even if you get lucky, the luck runs out and you are back to square one again. So it's mostly false illusion and false hope that society runs on. That's the sad truth. Deep down we all know this but we have to deny it to continue.

So whether free will exists or not, people MUST believe in it, or else they cannot continue to function or thrive or try to do things.

[Winston]

It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.

Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?

You can't deny that free will exists in trivial affairs. For example if I am at an ice cream store, I have free will to choose the flavor I want. The universe or higher forces do not care what flavor I choose. If I am at a grocery store, I am free to choose what to buy. Higher forces do not consider that important enough to intefere with.

However, a materialist can argue that that is not free will because I will choose the flavor that I like that gives me the most pleasure consuming. No one will choose something he doesn't like. But this is arguing in circles. Of course everyone chooses what they like or what they think is good and healthy. You can argue around in circles about that forever.

The classic free will argument is: If I push you, and you do not fall but try to balance yourself, aren't you exercising your free will?

[Winston]

It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.

That is definitely true...but old habits are hard to die

Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?

By cause/effect are you referring to the effects of our choices? Sure, I agree with that. I call free will the ability to make the choice that will determine that effect...or perhaps something completely different. Free will is what makes us different from animals...or from Angels...

There is a saying: "Never give advice. Wise people don't need it. And foolish people will not take it."

I was not asking for any advice, especially from people who do not listen and discount what I say. I was just merely saying that Americans, New Agers, and Christians falsely assume that free will is wide open and free and uninhibited with no impediment or obstacle, and that is obviously not true for many reasons. That's my main point. It's something to consider for free will believers. You agree with my points above right? If so, you still remain a staunch believer in free will. Why? Don't you agree that it's only a small factor? It's a modern concept too. People did not traditionally believe in it.

Also, free will is only for those who are highly conscious and aware and practice meditation and spirituality. The normal lemmings and masses are more like pack animals and certainly have little to no free will. So you gotta differentiate here. You can't jump to all or nothing conclusions like lazy people do, such as Guhji. He is also very narrow and only reads one side - the atheist materialist side, and never considers other viewpoints or arguments. Very lazy and narrow in my view. I don't respect that at all. No wisdom in my book.

[Winston]

Another key point:

Even if free will exists, it doesn't seem to matter because: In my experience if I choose something against my destiny, it's blocked, thwarted, and ruined. Just like the people on Gilligan's Island were blocked from leaving the island, until the scriptwriters let them off the island in the last episode. So I am only allowed to choose what's already in my destiny. Hence if you are only allowed to choose what fits your destiny but not if it doesn't fit it, how is that free will? If you are only free to choose what fits the plan, then that's not free right? Do any of you experience the same? Or does the universe only block people like me but not you? Others have reported the same experience.

It seems that the more of a freethinker you are who doesn't care what others think and is seeking to be liberated from the matrix and system, the more Murphy's Law targets you. Everyone experiences Murphy's Law sometimes, but if you are a freethinker who is liberated from the matrix programming, it targets you even 10x more than it does the average lemming. This is the pattern I've noticed. Doesn't matter whether you guys buy it or not, it's what I see and notice. Your denial doesn't change that. So why not be open minded and consider that I may be right?

You guys also didn't answer my previous questions.

- How do people with mental illness have free will? They cannot choose for the disorder to go away and leave them alone. A bipolar disorder sufferer cannot control their mind or brain. Neither can a schizophrenic. Or someone with autism. It's simply a part of them. How is that free will without impediment?

- Serial killers say they fight their thoughts and desires to kill for a long time before giving in. If you have to fight your own mind and thoughts, how is that free will? If your mind controls you and you do not control it, then how is that free will?

Unfortunately, I too often feel that my mind controls me more than I can control it. So I have never been a big believer in total unlimited free will. Why should I?

- Even climbers who climb Mt. Everest and get killed doing it, say they cannot help it. The desire to climb it is in their blood. So they have to do it. So how is that free will if something is in your blood and you can't help but do it?

Even Yick admitted that being an expat is in his blood. If so, then he is following what's in his blood lest he suffocates and remain unhappy. So obviously that affects his free will right? It's a major influence on his free will I mean, right?

Can you guys address these? These are my core questions. Do you agree @publicduende? If so, do you admit that Westerners exaggerate free will? Again I'm not asking for advice, just for you all to address my core questions above.

[Gali]

I think you can still live without believing in free will. I think many scientists and even religios people do not believe in it because they believe in destiny. Most people do not care.

--- 'Range of operations' ----
In German we have the word 'Handlungsfreiheit'. It could mean 'range of operations'. Like an AI tesla can drive to another city but can not fly. Still it has no free will.

Btw I am a social atheist
Free will does not exist (1)99,7%
btw if you are not a robot do not act like a robot by repeating yourself. Otherwise you might be one or not.

Spiritual materialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual ... ic%20state.

[Winston]

But Gali. You disbelieve in free will not because you believe that the gods or the universe has some grand ultimate divine plan. But because you believe we are robots and machines controlled by our brain chemistry. Right? So you have different reasons than me for being critical of free will. You come from a materialist perspective. I am speaking metaphysically because i see a divine plan involving gods or ETs that run the world, not us. My perspective is more what the ancient Romans and Greeks believed. But yours is more like scientific materialism. See the difference?

[Gali]

As I am a fan of the great Epikur who is a Greek. I can speak in his words metaphysically as well and say I can see that the gods if they exist do not care about us and do not act in our world. So it is not reasonable to waste time with that because of my programming.

Obviously you are programmed differently so you got to do your divine reasoning. Though you still can't find a satisfying logic and reasoning in your life.

[publicduende]

I was not asking for any advice...

And I wasn't giving any. You asked me for an opinion on the matter of free will and how it affects your life, including my opinion on your (frankly absurd) theories about ultra-dimensional demons and spiritual hurdles.

To put the story short, I think you got to exercise your free will far more than the average American dude, and especially Asian-American dude. And I think you should be forever grateful to your family, who more or less silently allowed your free will to thrive.

I was just merely saying that Americans, New Agers, and Christians falsely assume that free will is wide open and free and uninhibited with no impediment or obstacle, and that is obviously not true for many reasons. That's my main point. It's something to consider for free will believers. You agree with my points above right? If so, you still remain a staunch believer in free will. Why? Don't you agree that it's only a small factor? It's a modern concept too. People did not traditionally believe in it.

Also, free will is only for those who are highly conscious and aware and practice meditation and spirituality. The normal lemmings and masses are more like pack animals and certainly have little to no free will. So you gotta differentiate here. You can't jump to all or nothing conclusions like lazy people do, such as Guhji. He is also very narrow and only reads one side - the atheist materialist side, and never considers other viewpoints or arguments. Very lazy and narrow in my view. I don't respect that at all. No wisdom in my book.

No, I don't believe free will is like a freely gushing fountain. Of course it can be exercised to different levels. I am just maintaining that those obstacles to the full exercise of your free will - and by that I mean meaningful, life-changing choices, not which foot you put down first when you wake up! - are not super-natural in nature. They come from how well you have been taught, or indeed chose, to conform.

Conformism is the antithesis of free will, in a way. You will probably agree with that.

[Winston]

Just added two more points to my list. So there are 16 points altogether now. Here are the two new points:

14. In my experience, when I try to do something against my destiny or what's meant to be, I get BLOCKED and my plans get thwarted and ruined. It seems I am only allowed to follow my destiny and only allowed to have what's meant to be. So if I am not allowed to do anything that doesn't fit my destiny, then my free will is moot isn't it? This has been my experience in life, so I've never been a big fan of free will since I never felt I truly had any. And I've never understood why most people were so adamant about free will when I don't see evidence of it. If I can either follow my destiny or go against it and get blocked, then I don't see how free will is a factor then. You get my drift?

15. I'm sure you've heard that someone does something because it's in their blood. For example, those who climb Mt. Everest and get killed doing it, which looks foolish to others, will say that they can't help it because it's in their blood to risk their lives climbing it. It's as if they didn't have total free will, because they were compelled to follow whatever is in their blood. Or at least what's in their blood is a major influence on their mind or will. In that sense, free will is not free if there are many things influencing it, such as your genes, your blood, your soul, your innate nature, higher forces and entities, a divine plan or divine order, destiny, karma, etc. Right?

[Winston]

As I am a fan of the great Epikur who is a Greek. I can speak in his words metaphysically as well and say I can see that the gods if they exist do not care about us and do not act in our world. So it is not reasonable to waste time with that because of my programming.

Obviously you are programmed differently so you got to do your divine reasoning. Though you still can't find a satisfying logic and reasoning in your life.

Yes and no. Some gods intervene, others don't. How do you explain signs and omens then, if the gods never interfere? What about the Miracle of Fatima in 1917 for example? 80,000 people including skeptics and atheists saw the sun spin in the sky. And the wet grass became dry afterward. It's very well documented and factual. Obviously some higher forces did something that day, whether it's gods or ETs or hidden forces.

Why do you never consider such examples? There are countless examples like that. Why do you dismiss them and ignore them just to fit your atheist fundamentalist views? Isn't that dogmatic and closed minded? How are you different than a Christian fundamentalist? You are merely the other side of the same coin. Don't you see that???

I've also seen signs and omens and synchronicities too. Every spiritual person has. Some prayers are answered too. I knew a Christian who made a pact with God that the woman he was meant to marry would utter an unusual phrase. When he first met his wife, on their first date, she utttered the key phrase, so he knew she was the one, and he was right.

There are countless stories like this. I'm sure you've heard them. So I don't need to tell you any more. Obviously something is going on. It's not random probability. The evidence for the paranormal is more than you can imagine. Countless books and documentaries about paranormal mysteries have been around since the 1960s. Where have you been?

[Gali]

As I am a fan of the great Epikur who is a Greek. I can speak in his words metaphysically as well and say I can see that the gods if they exist do not care about us and do not act in our world. So it is not reasonable to waste time with that because of my programming.

Obviously you are programmed differently so you got to do your divine reasoning. Though you still can't find a satisfying logic and reasoning in your life.

Yes and no. Some gods intervene, others don't. How do you explain signs and omens then, if the gods never interfere? What about the Miracle of Fatima in 1917 for example? 80,000 people including skeptics and atheists saw the sun spin in the sky. And the wet grass became dry afterward. It's very well documented and factual. Obviously some higher forces did something that day, whether it's gods or ETs or hidden forces.

Why do you never consider such examples? There are countless examples like that. Why do you dismiss them and ignore them just to fit your atheist fundamentalist views? Isn't that dogmatic and closed minded? How are you different than a Christian fundamentalist? You are merely the other side of the same coin. Don't you see that???

I've also seen signs and omens and synchronicities too. Every spiritual person has. Some prayers are answered too. I knew a Christian who made a pact with God that the woman he was meant to marry would utter an unusual phrase. When he first met his wife, on their first date, she utttered the key phrase, so he knew she was the one, and he was right.

There are countless stories like this. I'm sure you've heard them. So I don't need to tell you any more. Obviously something is going on. It's not random probability. The evidence for the paranormal is more than you can imagine. Countless books and documentaries about paranormal mysteries have been around since the 1960s. Where have you been?

We have no freedom about what we believe or not. If I think I am Napoleon you can not convince me I am not.

I try to enjoy my life as a puppet. You try to fight the puppetmaster though he might not exist. Good luck with that.

What if you act for some time like I was right and I act like you are right? So I will try to fight patterns and study kabbala and stuff and you act like a spiritual materialist.

[Winston]

I was not asking for any advice...

And I wasn't giving any. You asked me for an opinion on the matter of free will and how it affects your life, including my opinion on your (frankly absurd) theories about ultra-dimensional demons and spiritual hurdles.

To put the story short, I think you got to exercise your free will far more than the average American dude, and especially Asian-American dude. And I think you should be forever grateful to your family, who more or less silently allowed your free will to thrive.

I was just merely saying that Americans, New Agers, and Christians falsely assume that free will is wide open and free and uninhibited with no impediment or obstacle, and that is obviously not true for many reasons. That's my main point. It's something to consider for free will believers. You agree with my points above right? If so, you still remain a staunch believer in free will. Why? Don't you agree that it's only a small factor? It's a modern concept too. People did not traditionally believe in it.

Also, free will is only for those who are highly conscious and aware and practice meditation and spirituality. The normal lemmings and masses are more like pack animals and certainly have little to no free will. So you gotta differentiate here. You can't jump to all or nothing conclusions like lazy people do, such as Guhji. He is also very narrow and only reads one side - the atheist materialist side, and never considers other viewpoints or arguments. Very lazy and narrow in my view. I don't respect that at all. No wisdom in my book.

No, I don't believe free will is like a freely gushing fountain. Of course it can be exercised to different levels. I am just maintaining that those obstacles to the full exercise of your free will - and by that I mean meaningful, life-changing choices, not which foot you put down first when you wake up! - are not super-natural in nature. They come from how well you have been taught, or indeed chose, to conform.

Conformism is the antithesis of free will, in a way. You will probably agree with that.

That's a good point. But the way I see it, I had no choice. It was either stay in America and get nothing and always be lonely and bored, or go abroad. So the circumstances pushed me to look overseas. I don't know if you would call that free will. Perhaps the universe arranged it so that I had no choice and it was meant to be for me to go abroad? If so then that is destiny, not free will right? If I had free will to choose what I wanted, I would have stayed in the US and married a great wife. But that wasn't on my options list of course. So what choice did I have? I'm not sure I would call that free will. I was just following my destiny right? If something is meant to be, then circumstances are arranged for it to happen. Very classic.

You also didn't explain why I constantly feel that my free will is interefered with or why I can't control my mind? Or why stuff gets in the way when I make plans, just like on Gilligan's Island or the TV series "Lost" if you aren't meant to leave the island, the universe will block you in an infinite variety of ways and your plans will be thwarted. How do you explain stuff like that? The more you try, the worst it gets because the universe pushes harder against you. Like if you try hard to break an addiction, the addiction will push back with just as great of a force. Why? If the universe and your subconscious are against you, aren't you screwed?

Why doesn't my mind and body obey my commands? You and others haven't addressed this. Why would I stay in a country like Taiwan if I hate it and am a 100 percent misfit in its soulless zombie shallow antisocial anti-truth culture? Obviously something is making me that is going AGAINST my free will. How else can you explain it logically? It's obviously not logical.

Do you get what I mean? I'm not sure if you and others are listening or not. Also you can't say that my theories are absurd. How would you know? We do not live in a materialistic universe only. The spirit world and paranormal definitely exists. There are countless examples and cases and true stories. I'm sure you know that. Everyone knows someone with a paranormal experience or they've had one themselves. So why do you deny it all and call it absurd? How would you know what is absurd and what isn't? Science cannot explain many things. Neither can a materialist paradigm. Any truth seeker knows that.

Why can't you address my core questions directly?

[Winston]

As I am a fan of the great Epikur who is a Greek. I can speak in his words metaphysically as well and say I can see that the gods if they exist do not care about us and do not act in our world. So it is not reasonable to waste time with that because of my programming.

Obviously you are programmed differently so you got to do your divine reasoning. Though you still can't find a satisfying logic and reasoning in your life.

Yes and no. Some gods intervene, others don't. How do you explain signs and omens then, if the gods never interfere? What about the Miracle of Fatima in 1917 for example? 80,000 people including skeptics and atheists saw the sun spin in the sky. And the wet grass became dry afterward. It's very well documented and factual. Obviously some higher forces did something that day, whether it's gods or ETs or hidden forces.

Why do you never consider such examples? There are countless examples like that. Why do you dismiss them and ignore them just to fit your atheist fundamentalist views? Isn't that dogmatic and closed minded? How are you different than a Christian fundamentalist? You are merely the other side of the same coin. Don't you see that???

I've also seen signs and omens and synchronicities too. Every spiritual person has. Some prayers are answered too. I knew a Christian who made a pact with God that the woman he was meant to marry would utter an unusual phrase. When he first met his wife, on their first date, she utttered the key phrase, so he knew she was the one, and he was right.

There are countless stories like this. I'm sure you've heard them. So I don't need to tell you any more. Obviously something is going on. It's not random probability. The evidence for the paranormal is more than you can imagine. Countless books and documentaries about paranormal mysteries have been around since the 1960s. Where have you been?

We have no freedom about what we believe or not. If I think I am Napoleon you can not convince me I am not.

I try to enjoy my life as a puppet. You try to fight the puppetmaster though he might not exist. Good luck with that.

What if you act for some time like I was right and I act like you are right? So I will try to fight patterns and study kabbala and stuff and you act like a spiritual materialist.

Then what makes me believe one thing and you believe another? Brain chemistry? Soul? Why don't we all believe the same thing? How can you explain that?

I can pretend to be you only hypothetically and play devil's advocate. But it would just be pretend and imagination. I cannot be something I am not. In that sense, there is no free will if I cannot choose to be something I am not, and I can only be myself. I don't see how there is any free choice or free will if I can only be myself. So again, this never made any sense.

[Gali]

Theory of evolution explains quite a bit why we are all a bit different.

You did not read properly. I said act and think like you are a materialist like in method acting and see what happens. It is like doing theater. It might change your perspective.

[Winston]

Theory of evolution explains quite a bit why we are all a bit different.

You did not read properly. I said act and think like you are a materialist like in method acting and see what happens. It is like doing theater. It might change your perspective.

Evolution only deals with how species evolve, not why individuals are different. We aren't talking about the human race, but about why we have different beliefs. Or why some do not conform to any set beliefs.

Why would I pretend to be an atheist or materialist? It doesn't fit all the data. It would feel weird and depressing and dull too. To be like Richard Dawkins is to have no hope or dreams or imagination in anything.

Btw Gali. More ways in which the gods intervene:

1. Alien Abductions: Open minded researchers like Budd Hopkins or John Mack who looked into it seriously with a neutral mindset eventually realized the phenomenon is real, not made up. If so, then that is intervention from higher forces.

2. UFOs: UFOs are everywhere since 1947. Some insiders in the US military say that UFOs deactivated many nuclear weapons in the US and Russia too. If so, that is intervention from above of course.

3. In 1814 when Briitsh troops burned down the White House in August, all of a sudden a big cyclone came out of nowhere and attacked them. This is a historical fact. Watch any documentary about the War of 1812 and you will see. Obviously the gods were angry that the White House was burned down and intervened. What are the odds that a cyclone would come out of nowhere during Summer? When has that ever happened in DC? Obviously something or someone above was angry about it.