The Holocaust - No questioning allowed

[Adama]

odbo, why don't you add a poll to your post to see how many agree with you? Since my family (except my parents) was wiped out in the Holocaust, I am rather curious to know how many nutcases we have here on this forum.

My late uncle was a WWII vet who served in Europe in the so called Rainbow Division towards the end of the war. He was among the first several dozen American troops to arrive at Dachau concentration camp in Germany. I have photos of his arrival taken with a small box camera.
Dozens of box cars outside the camp held rotting human remains. Huge slit trenches in another area held bodies and thousands of bodies in various states of
decomposition. The original camp commander had fled, leaving another SS officer in charge. As more troops arrived, he saw several guards shot down
by US soldiers, perhaps ten by one GI of no more than 19 years of age who had been vomiting off the side of his jeep behind the light machine gun he tended. My uncle's accounts were not some bullshit spewed on some forum somewhere.

My uncle did not live to know the internet, but he did know war, and he did know Dachau concentration camp on that day.
Tens of thousands of living human skeletons remained. Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, and others.
What people spew on an obscure forum is of little import.

Clearly, at least in the USA, free speech does and should protect so called deniers. If you are looking for collective reason here, I think you will be disappointed. They said, "never again" but of course, it happened again and again, just with other populations.
Again Schmidt, this is a place to come for a bit of amusement, not serious discourse. The court jesters have their opinions, but so long as they can
dance and juggle, who cares?

outwest

Dachau wasn't a Nazi death camp at all. No jews were Holocausted there and everyone knows it. Just look it up on Wikipedia. All of the so-called Death camps were in the east, which only were accessed by the Soviets, not Americans or British. So a first hand account of an uncle with pictures of Dachau doesnt prove that they were holocausted. Merely that lots of people died in camps.

[fschmidt]

I don't understand something. Why would Germany imprison people who deny the Holocaust? Wouldn't they have the most to gain from disproving the Holocaust, since it would vindicate history's perception of their past crimes?

The Germans aren't very tolerant, so they don't have free speech. But they are smart enough to know that the Holocaust can never be disproved because there is so much evidence of it. So Germany just wants the debate to go away which is why the imprison people who being it up.

Why would the Nazis make videos of the dead bodies in concentration camps, to be used against them later? Wouldn't they wanna keep that a secret?

They assumed they would win and be in control of the tapes.

Why would they need concentration camps to kill mass numbers of people? Wouldn't they have more quick efficient ways of doing it?

No, the camps were designed to efficiently kill people. No wasted bullets and one central location to burn the bodies.

Why does Germany outlaw Holocaust denial today? Wouldn't it have the most to gain from disproving it and fixing their historical reputation?

already answered above

Even if the Holocaust happened, on a smaller scale than the exaggerated version, there is definitely a bias in focusing on it as the only tragedy in WWII, isn't there? What about all the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? And all the millions that Stalin killed? Why is all the focus on the Jews, as if they are somehow more special than the others? What's the logical reason for that? Does anyone deny that there's a bias?

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian damages of a country at war with America. The Jews were not at war with anyone and the number killed was 6 million which is much higher than other casualties. The only recent death toll this high is what Mao inflicted on the Chinese, but this was something the Chinese allowed to happen to themselves, not something imposed from outside.

Hitler was no saint. But he was not as evil as Western history portrays him. If you listen to his speeches and read what he wrote, he was far less insane and far more rational than you might think.

Being sane and rational doesn't mean one isn't evil. In fact the worst is a sane, rational, evil man because he can do the most damage. And this is what Hitler was. So was Mao.

[fschmidt]

Likewise, I don't want to be any place where there are more than a small minority of Zionists or their moronic sympathizers.

odbo, I would think you would be a big fan of Zionism. After all, the idea of Zionism is to have all the Jews move to Israel which means that wherever you live would be free of Jews.

[odbo]

I don't understand something. Why would Germany imprison people who deny the Holocaust? Wouldn't they have the most to gain from disproving the Holocaust, since it would vindicate history's perception of their past crimes?

The Germans aren't very tolerant, so they don't have free speech. But they are smart enough to know that the Holocaust can never be disproved because there is so much evidence of it. So Germany just wants the debate to go away which is why the imprison people who being it up.

Because Germany has a puppet government whose allegiance is to the Zionists not the German people.

Why would the Nazis make videos of the dead bodies in concentration camps, to be used against them later? Wouldn't they wanna keep that a secret?

They assumed they would win and be in control of the tapes.

The tapes I was shown in school were filmed by Americans/British after the war.

Why would they need concentration camps to kill mass numbers of people? Wouldn't they have more quick efficient ways of doing it?

No, the camps were designed to efficiently kill people. No wasted bullets and one central location to burn the bodies.

Of course they had more efficient ways of killing people. Stalin killed 10 million Ukranians/Belorussians/Russians in 1933 by starving them. This was in the breadbasket of the former Russian Empire and was most fertile land in the world. The Germans directly caused the death of 20 million civilians in the USSR from 1941-1945. Apparently the efficient Germans couldn't manage to do the same to their own Jews, but they did manage to stamp them with #'s. The ovens in the camps were used for cremation. If they wanted to cook people alive they would have used larger ovens, not ones that could only fit one person at a time laying down. If they were gassing people alive, they would have made their buildings a little more sturdy rather than using rickety doors and unsealed windows. And they would have built chimneys or else the guards standing outside would have been gassed as well.

But you see Winston the average moron doesn't ask these questions. This moron above me seems to think wasting a few million bullets are more expensive than building huge camps with showers, cremating facilities and swimming pools. Bullets, of which there was no shortage during World War 2... were a concern? But wasting valuable manpower to guard millions of inmates seemed more sensible? Again Winston, most people don't think, so they don't realize the ridiculous nature of their beliefs. He doesn't question how a holocaust survivor who escaped 7 times was re-captured 7 times and still survived the length of the war, and now lives in the US and views themself as a victim of a death camp. How many normal prisons can you escape from seven times before you get capped in the back of the head? Concentration camps were for housing, not for killing mass numbers of people, PERIOD.

Why does Germany outlaw Holocaust denial today? Wouldn't it have the most to gain from disproving it and fixing their historical reputation?

already answered above

The truth does not fear investigation. If the government was so offended by 9/11 truth or holocaust deniers or Obama birth certificate controversy, they'd release all the evidence and allow open discussion on the topic to quell concerns. But they aren't doing that because they have something to hide. The criminals will continue to sit comfortably, shielded by an army of sheeple who will blindly believe the official story on anything and will attack other people for using their brain.

Even if the Holocaust happened, on a smaller scale than the exaggerated version, there is definitely a bias in focusing on it as the only tragedy in WWII, isn't there? What about all the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? And all the millions that Stalin killed? Why is all the focus on the Jews, as if they are somehow more special than the others? What's the logical reason for that? Does anyone deny that there's a bias?

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian damages of a country at war with America. The Jews were not at war with anyone and the number killed was 6 million which is much higher than other casualties. The only recent death toll this high is what Mao inflicted on the Chinese, but this was something the Chinese allowed to happen to themselves, not something imposed from outside.

The 20 to 30 million rural Chinese did not "allow" themselves to be victim of an engineered famine. They had less in common with the regime in Beijing than the Jews had with the Nazis. Most Jews in the camps were educated and/or well off. They had a parasitic relationship with Germany for decades and once Hitler came into power they had plenty of opportunity to emigrate to Switzerland, America, wherever. The Chinese farmers who were killed didn't have these options and didn't share any blame for their ruler's resentment. They weren't leeching off their host, they weren't bankers, nor were they flooding the society with pornography, homosexuality and other perversions, they were simple folk. Oh and one more thing, a slight detail. Hitler was a Jew, so were some of the top Nazis. There's also evidence suggesting thousands of Jews served in the Wehrmacht. To say that the Jews were singled out by an external force is nothing short of brain numbing.

Abe Foxman, head of the ADL went to Ukraine and told them not to make parallels between the Holodomor and the Holocaust. The Holocaust supposedly killed 6 people during war time. The Holodomor killed more and is virtually unknown.

Hitler was no saint. But he was not as evil as Western history portrays him. If you listen to his speeches and read what he wrote, he was far less insane and far more rational than you might think.

Being sane and rational doesn't mean one isn't evil. In fact the worst is a sane, rational, evil man because he can do the most damage. And this is what Hitler was. So was Mao.

I think what Winston means is, he wasn't a liar. Unlike any politician you can think of (Churchill, Stalin, Obama) Hitler told it like it is. Sure he lied to the Germans about his intentions, he was out to destroy the country from within, but did he actually lie about the Jews? Truth is stranger than fiction when you're talking about world Jewry.

Likewise, I don't want to be any place where there are more than a small minority of Zionists or their moronic sympathizers.

odbo, I would think you would be a big fan of Zionism. After all, the idea of Zionism is to have all the Jews move to Israel which means that wherever you live would be free of Jews.

I'm not against Jews, I'm against the pro-conformity, anti-human, anti-truth form of mind control commonly known as Jewish culture.

[fschmidt]

The tapes I was shown in school were filmed by Americans/British after the war.

That's an even better explanation.

But you see Winston the average moron doesn't ask these questions.

I have no need to investigate all this nonsense because my parents know personally what happened to the Jews in Hungary which includes my family. Anyone can make up videos and other second hand propaganda, but my parents saw most Jews they knew simply disappear onto trains and never come back.

odbo, I would think you would be a big fan of Zionism. After all, the idea of Zionism is to have all the Jews move to Israel which means that wherever you live would be free of Jews.

I'm not against Jews, I'm against the form of mind control commonly known as Jewish culture.

Well if all Jews moved to Israel, then Jewish "mind control" would no longer effect you. So why aren't you a Zionist?

[momopi]

The primary purpose of rounding up millions of people back then was to use them as cheap labor. This was a necessity because Germany suffered major labor shortages from the men drafted to war.

- In 1939-1940, Germany had approx. 39 million males, of which approx. 9 million were in the ages of 21-34.
- By 1940, approx. 8 million German men were serving in the Wehrmacht.
- From 1939 to 1945, approx. 18 million men served in the Wehrmacht, taking 10 million casualties by end of the war.
- Only 5% of the men in Wehrmacht service is thought to be non-Germans.

- Wehrmacht 1939-1945 breakdown by service branch:
* Deutsches Heer: ~13 million
* Luftwaffe: ~3.4 million
* Kriegsmarine: ~1.5 million
* Waffen-SS: ~1 million

Do the math. Who's working in the German factories? If you're skilled labor and willing to work, you get paid in little colorful scripts (cheaper than real money) that can be exchanged for food and necessities. And if you're undesirable or useless, well, cremations became a necessity when too many burials became unsanitary. There's no doubt that many people died in labor camps. Exactly how many and from what ethnic groups is subject to debate. The "Holocaust" should be applicable to all those who died in the German labor camps, not just the Jews.

[AmericanInMexico]

All I know is that if the Holocaust really did happen as claimed, then the Nazis were a bunch of bumbling idiots, since there were millions of survivors.

My personal belief is that Jews were targeted by the Nazis and killed, but I don't believe the 6 million number to be accurate. The logistics of moving 6 million people to death camps, killing them, and then burying them is entirely time, cost, and resource-prohibitive. Remember that the Nazis were already spending a lot of resources on the war effort; where did they get the resources to perform this massive Holocaust of theirs?

I consider myself a Holocaust "agnostic". It's entirely possible that 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but until someone proves it to me, I'm not going to believe it.

[Adama]

The primary purpose of rounding up millions of people back then was to use them as cheap labor. This was a necessity because Germany suffered major labor shortages from the men drafted to war.

- In 1939-1940, Germany had approx. 39 million males, of which approx. 9 million were in the ages of 21-34.
- By 1940, approx. 8 million German men were serving in the Wehrmacht.
- From 1939 to 1945, approx. 18 million men served in the Wehrmacht, taking 10 million casualties by end of the war.
- Only 5% of the men in Wehrmacht service is thought to be non-Germans.

- Wehrmacht 1939-1945 breakdown by service branch:
* Deutsches Heer: ~13 million
* Luftwaffe: ~3.4 million
* Kriegsmarine: ~1.5 million
* Waffen-SS: ~1 million

Do the math. Who's working in the German factories? If you're skilled labor and willing to work, you get paid in little colorful scripts (cheaper than real money) that can be exchanged for food and necessities. And if you're undesirable or useless, well, cremations became a necessity when too many burials became unsanitary. There's no doubt that many people died in labor camps. Exactly how many and from what ethnic groups is subject to debate. The "Holocaust" should be applicable to all those who died in the German labor camps, not just the Jews.

Those other groups don't own the media, and there aren't as many of them in the USA who have the propensity to whine as loudly.

The Armenians, Estonians and other European subgroups also suffered genocides at the hands of the Turks and Russians respectively. However, you never ever hear anything about anyone except for Jews being Holocausted. I believe this is promoted so that they can call anyone who is ever critical of the collective Jewish efforts to subvert Western nations Anti-Semitic, Holocaust deniers.

The real Jewish figure for deaths at the hands of zeh Nazis is somewhere between 100,000 and 400,000 individuals. When I was travelling last year and met a foreigner, he was well aware that this is a powerful Jewish myth. I think outside of the western world, most people know these are Soviet lies.

[Adama]

The tapes I was shown in school were filmed by Americans/British after the war.

That's an even better explanation.

But you see Winston the average moron doesn't ask these questions.

I have no need to investigate all this nonsense because my parents know personally what happened to the Jews in Hungary which includes my family. Anyone can make up videos and other second hand propaganda, but my parents saw most Jews they knew simply disappear onto trains and never come back.

odbo, I would think you would be a big fan of Zionism. After all, the idea of Zionism is to have all the Jews move to Israel which means that wherever you live would be free of Jews.

I'm not against Jews, I'm against the form of mind control commonly known as Jewish culture.

Well if all Jews moved to Israel, then Jewish "mind control" would no longer effect you. So why aren't you a Zionist?

Zionism solves nothing, because half of them refuse to leave us alone. Why don't all the Jews in the USA, Canada and France move there? They are too busy making money off of the gullible goy. That's why. It would be like vampires trying to subsist off of sucking the blood of other vampires. It is not possible.

Besides that, the whole idea of Israel is based upon the genocide of Palestinians, which is yet another thing the Zionist media will not inform the US people on. Palestinians are just more monkeys who deserve death, rather than true human beings who are being deprived of basic human rights in a land previously owned by their grandfathers.

[Adama]

All I know is that if the Holocaust really did happen as claimed, then the Nazis were a bunch of bumbling idiots, since there were millions of survivors.

My personal belief is that Jews were targeted by the Nazis and killed, but I don't believe the 6 million number to be accurate. The logistics of moving 6 million people to death camps, killing them, and then burying them is entirely time, cost, and resource-prohibitive. Remember that the Nazis were already spending a lot of resources on the war effort; where did they get the resources to perform this massive Holocaust of theirs?

I consider myself a Holocaust "agnostic". It's entirely possible that 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but until someone proves it to me, I'm not going to believe it.

Statistics show that there were barely 6 million Jews in all of Europe at the time, and most of the ones in western Europe saw the writing on the wall. Look up the "Frankfurt school". Most of the cultural revolution of the 60s is because of the immigration of these people from Germany in the 1930s. Some began to work at Columbia University and Hollywood. There, they began to do what they always do, and part of the reason they have been hated for thousands of years - agitate and manipulate the populace.

[Repatriate]

I'm not a Holocaust denier but it's possible the 6 million figure has become a historical pop culture fact endlessly repeated which may have been originally miscounted That doesn't mean that what happened still isn't terrible. Even if it was a million killed it's still horrible.

There are so many eyewitness accounts from non-Jews who were around during that era that it's hard to falsify figures. Plus there's census and other statistics. Entire populations of Jews in Poland, Ukraine, and western europe vanished. They didn't all relocate to the U.S. or Israel but vanished off the face of the world. Those kinds of statistics are very noticeable.

My only problem with the way the Holocaust is presented is how it's become the "most horrible suffering" ever in media and historical debate. Your average civilian in Russia and China probably suffered way more during WW2 and certainly died in greater numbers. People are obsessed with the idea of systemic annihalation of an entire people through industrial means, so i'd say the reason why the holocaust has such fascination is more out of morbid curiosity.

It certainly doesn't doesn't hurt that a lot of Jews are prominent in media but every group tends to depict their group's interests when they are in positions of authority. So I don't buy the whole Jewish conspiracy angle either. That's just the way people are.

[Adama]

I'm not a Holocaust denier but it's possible the 6 million figure has become a historical pop culture fact endlessly repeated which may have been originally miscounted That doesn't mean that what happened still isn't terrible. Even if it was a million killed it's still horrible.

There are so many eyewitness accounts from non-Jews who were around during that era that it's hard to falsify figures. Plus there's census and other statistics. Entire populations of Jews in Poland, Ukraine, and western europe vanished. They didn't all relocate to the U.S. or Israel but vanished off the face of the world. Those kinds of statistics are very noticeable.

My only problem with the way the Holocaust is presented is how it's become the "most horrible suffering" ever in media and historical debate. Your average civilian in Russia and China probably suffered way more during WW2 and certainly died in greater numbers. People are obsessed with the idea of systemic annihalation of an entire people through industrial means, so i'd say the reason why the holocaust has such fascination is more out of morbid curiosity.

It certainly doesn't doesn't hurt that a lot of Jews are prominent in media but every group tends to depict their group's interests when they are in positions of authority. So I don't buy the whole Jewish conspiracy angle either. That's just the way people are.

Firsthand accounts like Outwest's grandfather's uncle's best friend? Before Youtube started to crack down, there used to be quite a few videos on there of Jews who made up their own Holocaust stories and who were caught in their lies. Most of those have been removed for TOS violations.

[odbo]

I have no need to investigate all this nonsense because my parents know personally what happened to the Jews in Hungary which includes my family. Anyone can make up videos and other second hand propaganda, but my parents saw most Jews they knew simply disappear onto trains and never come back.

The same thing happened to the Japanese in Peru. Does that prove genocide?

The deportation of Japanese Peruvians to the United States involved expropriation of their property and other assets in Peru.[14] At war's end, only 79 Japanese Peruvian citizens returned to Peru.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Peruvian

[Disillusioned_American]

The most unfortunate part about the holocaust is how it is now being used as leverage by zionists who wish to exploit the tragedy, and also by those who utilize it as a means or excuse for their suppressing of the human rights of others. Such as imprisoning those in Europe whom question the six million number. These zionists, it seems, are utilizing the holocaust as a means of pushing their own agenda, which as a result has lead to more and more resentment against jews today, even inspite of this tragic historical event. Indeed, this is a strange irony.

While I recognize that the deaths of many jews occured under Hitler's rule, I personally do not see him as the symbol of absolute evil that many jews in the media and entertainment industry - including those who control such entities as the History Channel - would like for me to see him as. I also don't believe the six million figure is accurate; in fact, I think there are many exaggerations by historians regarding the truth of what really happened during the "Holocaust." Hell, most Americans are too f***ing stupid to even know who Pol Pot was!!! Pot arguably was responsible for the deaths of even more of his own citizens than Hitler was!

[fschmidt]

So far the score is 4 sane to 7 nuts. That isn't good.