Why personal ads in the USA don't usually work

[Winston]

From an email I got long ago:


Re Hi Winston --

Ads are essentially a waste of time. your article makes good points. Loser chycks to be found there only. As a man, you will run into 4 possible things with personals:

1. a Chyck with obvious physical flaws which would explain why she needs to use the personals (e.g. fat chycks, etc). There is a caveat here: it should be noted that if physical appearance is not a factor for you, then you can meet a chyck who will fit your criteria no problem. If this be the case, then the fatter the chyck the sweeter she will be. This is the inverse of the Beauty Premium Law.

2. Chycks who are attractive to look at, but have to retreat to the personals due to some emotional problem. These chycks are so screwed up mentally they can't hold on to a man in real life. You will discover this early on when you meet the chyck, which also includes her not sexing you.

3. lesser extent: Women in the online personals who are good looking but have no intention of responding to any anyone; they just do this for the stroking and attention they get from guys who respond to their ad.


4. lesser extent: personal ads with attractive women which are totally fake; these are bogus ads placed by the administrators of the service. This is done in an effort to increase their membership / usership of their service.

You can pretty much take this to the bank 'ol buddy!

yours,
R

[ladislav]

Market forces are at work; the law of supply and demand is at work too. Personal ads work quite well if you want to date Black girls by the way. I have tried and I dated some gorgeous black women.

I remember once I tried and put an ad in a Philippine American newspaper. Guess how many responses? 0

I then put an ad in a Manila paper and got 60 responses from very beautiful women.

A Filipina lady who was 39, separated with 3 kids got some 40 responses. So there you are. You can see how all these different markets work.

[momopi]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2005- ... raud_x.htm

Match.com, a unit of IAC/Interactive Corp., is accused in a federal lawsuit of goading members into renewing their subscriptions through bogus romantic e-mails sent out by company employees. In some instances, the suit contends, people on the Match payroll even went on sham dates with subscribers as a marketing ploy.

========

On-line dating sites do engage in fraudulent practice, so you have to watch out. Unfortunately free sites such as craiglist aren't necessarily better, because it attracts the "bottom feeders".

I've known a few success stories through online dating sites, one was through eharmony.com locally here in LA. She was a vegetarian and finally figured out that dating non-vegetarian men didn't work in long-term. So she went online, posted some ads, and got lucky.

I've had friends who had successes in Singapore and Taiwan, but I guess the environment there is different.

Here's a funny quote from Craiglist, from one capitalist to another:

====================

THIS APPEARED ON CRAIG'S LIST


What am I doing wrong?


Okay, I'm tired of beating around the bush. I'm a beautiful(spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I'm articulate and classy.I'm not from New York. I'm looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don't think I'm overreaching at all.

Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200-250. But that's where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won't get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she's not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars,restaurants, gyms
-What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won't hurt my feelings
-Is there an age range I should be targeting (I'm 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I've seen really 'plain jane' boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I've seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What's the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows - lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY

Please hold your insults - I'm putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I'm being up front about it. I wouldn't be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn't able to match them - in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.

* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 432279810


THE ANSWER


Dear Pers-431649184:
I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament.
Firstly, I'm not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here's how I see it.

Your offer, from the perspective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here's why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you
suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here's the rub, your looks will fade and my
money will likely continue into perpetuity...in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won't
be getting any more beautiful!

So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you're 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!

So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold...hence the rub...marriage. It doesn't make good business sense to "buy you" (which is what you're asking) so I'd rather lease. In case you think I'm being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It's as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.

Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So,I wonder why a girl as "articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful"
as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K hasn't found you, if not only for a tryout.

By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn't need to have this difficult conversation.

With all that said, I must say you're going about it the right way. Classic "pump and dump." I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.

[momopi]

Some follow-up posts from the original CL ad and reply (not by me):

===============================

Dear Pers-431649184:

Your also came across your posting with great interest. I am a 28 year old Wall Street trader ... In fact, I make over a million and can usher a woman into a comfortable, true middle class lifestyle ...

I am sympathetic to your goal in finding a rich man to marry. The milk needs to be sold by the expiration date. But since this is premium milk, why would you settle for less than premium prices? I would like to address some of the questions that were previously missed by the other gentleman and provide constructive advice on where to find your match.

I also do believe in the efficient market theory, and am surprised that $500k hasn't found you yet. There are plenty of rich lawyers, investment bankers and hedgies to go around in this city. What gives? I think the problem might be that you have not been sufficiently focused in your search efforts.

The culprit, I believe, may be that you are also looking for qualities aside from money - such as looks, personality, and a sense of humor. However, men who have those qualities learn at an early age that they do not need money to attract quality women. As the saying goes, if you can get the milk for free, why pay up for the cow?

What you need to look for is someone who is long money, and short the other aspects. They are not easy to spot, since you are biologically wired to overlook and ignore them. However, the next time that you are at a expensive black tie event, and you are introduced to the short, bald, overweight man who fidgets nervously whilst making conversation with you, pay special attention to him.

Here's an inspirational story for you. An acquaintance of mine who was also an classy and articulate woman as yourself was able to land that guy - who also happens to be one of the top ten guys at Google. This is the type of stuff that gold-digging moms read to their gold-digging daughters at bedtime. Perhaps you need to make a location change to Silicon Valley - miracles like these happen almost everyday in a land where you can randomly throw a rock and hit a rich nerd in squarely his Kim-jong Il glasses.

And as far as his deficiencies go, they turned out to be not so bad. With hundreds of millions in the bank, she's been able to clean him up and give him a little sophistication. Think of it as a fixer-upper project with a massive budget (and yourself as a real estate developer!). Although, I must warn you, it is a fine line you are flirting with - you must not overdo it lest he begins to attract younger women who are hotter than yourself. The trick is, you need build him up enough to be presentable, while simultaneously manipulate him into believing you are the best that he will ever do! That and having kids will be your insurance against your depreciation (or as I prefer to use the term, going sour).

I wish the best of luck on your sales project. As for me, I am also available for a short-term lease. However, for marriage I wouldn't consider a women unless she can bring beauty, brains and self-motivation to the table. I do not want to dilute my gene pool and end up raising a bunch of Paris Hiltons.

---------

Dear Pers-431649184, fellow mid-20's female,

Let me begin by saying that my dating situation is much like yours - rife with frustration over guys that aren't worth a long term commitment or who don't want a long term commitment. In fact many of my friends who read your posting were convinced that I had written it. I feel your pain. I will add some more color to elucidate exactly the type of female that I am: I went to an Ivy League school, work at a top tier investment bank, and I am generally considered a very good looking girl. In other words, I won't dilute the gene pool or "raise a bunch of Paris Hiltons". I have brains and oodles of self-motivation. I go on about 3 dates a week with guys like the ones who posted above, and even guys that make more money, and I am friends with a bevy of these beasts through Ivy League and investment banking connections. However, none of these fine young gentlemen have proposed yet. I believe it is because they spend so much of their time making money, that they have very little time to be in an actual relationship and so they settle for dating cheap, trashy girls that they pick up over bottle service at bottom-of-the-barrel night clubs like PM and Marquee. It is only these cheap girls that can truely be bought with money.

The first specimen to respond to your post is actually a first year analyst at Deutsche Bank. ....So, he only makes about $150,000/year.... But I dont think I need to tell you any of this since you have already eliminated this filthy class of guys. Bachelor #1, by kicking you when you were already down, also highlighted an important point: most men are assholes, making it virtually impossible to find one that is even worth marrying, much less one that will marry.

Bachelor #2 sounded promising and his post was much more respectful of your plight. The moral: men need to mature past the frat-boy stage before they are acceptable to date.

However, what I think most men fail to understand is that your preference for "$500 K" is not about the money and it is not a matter of materialism. Rather, this blanket statement provides an umbrella under which many other qualities seem to fall: premium educational background, high level of motivation, a family who raised the man well (and therefore good genes and similar breeding), and a socio economic background that reflects your own. I know how difficult it can be to date a guy who wrinkles his nose when he sees your oriental carpets, crystal chandeliers, and diamond heirloom ring. Having a similar background is vital to the success of any relationship. Let me reiterate: I make my own money and come from money and have no intention of marrying for money. Wanting a well-bred guy who has high motivation and a great education is not a crime.

With all of that said, I hope I have made it clear to everyone keeping up with these postings that females all over Manhattan are experiencing the same thing day in and day out and some of them aren't money grubbing sorostitutes. Well-bred gorgeous women who make their own money are finding it impossible to locate men who are of the same caliber. Its about time someone brought attention to the matter. Why is New York filled with guys who are A) career-obsessed, B) frat-loving, C) immigrants, or D) greasy B&T.

Where are the high-brow, ballroom-dancing, tuxedo-wearing Ivy League men who don't fall into any of these 4 categories and who aren't disrespectful slime balls? I have yet to solve this Manhattan mystery.

------------------------------


Dear pers-440043436, from a 27-year old male,

I think a big part of this "Manhattan mystery" is utterly unrealistic and narcissistic expectations and behavior of some people in Manhattan.

You want a guy who makes 500+, but without accepting that he will probably be working a lot and you will barely see him. The "high-brow, ballroom-dancing, tuxedo-wearing Ivy League men" are probably trust-fund babies and the years of laziness turns them into unmotivated playboys. You want the upside, without the downside.

I am 27. I am highly educated, with 3 graduate degrees. I was admitted to your Ivy League school, but went to a good non-Ivy that offered a full-ride and nicer people. I am not making 500K and probably never will. Not that I am not motivated, it is just that I am not motivated by money and don’t want to be surrounded by unpleasant people. I want to have a life outside of work. I make enough money to be in the upper 2% of income earners and that's more than enough for me to focus on more important things. I also want to be in a committed relationship and get married to a girl who shares my ideas. Unfortunately, in Manhattan I keep meeting either stupid cheap girls who want a sugar daddy or girls who are unpleasant, self-absorbed, judgmental and bitchy.

You listed your assets as “went to an Ivy League school, work at a top tier investment bank, and I am generally considered a very good looking girl.� You didn’t mention other things, like integrity, sense of humor, adaptability, loyalty – qualities that are much more important in a long-term relationship than your school’s and employer’s name. Maybe you should rethink your marketing strategy.

[jamesbond]

I love how American women think they can just get any guy they want simply because they are "considered attractive." American women are spoiled, arrogant, condescending, materialistic and bitchy all at the same time! Wow, to have all those traits rolled into one person is quite an accomplishment! Congratualations American women!

- Paul

[momopi]

Here's the Yahoo article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071010/od_ ... husband_dc

Woman seeks rich husband, banker says "crappy" deal

Wed Oct 10, 10:39 AM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Deal or no deal? An online exchange between a woman looking for a husband who earns more than $500,000 a year and a mystery Wall Street banker, who assessed her potential for romance as a business deal, has cause quite an Internet stir.

The anonymous 25-year-old woman recently posted an ad on the free online New York community Web site Craigslist, http://newyork.craigslist.org/, appealing for advice on how to find a wealthy husband.

"I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don't think I'm overreaching at all," the woman, who described herself as "spectacularly beautiful" and "superficial," wrote.

"I dated a business man who makes average around 200 - 250. But that's where I seem to hit a roadblock. $250,000 won't get me to Central Park West," she said, asking questions like "where do rich single men hang out?"

The mystery banker, who said he fit the bill, offered the woman an analysis of her predicament, describing it as "plain and simple a crappy business deal."

"Your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity ... in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won't be getting any more beautiful!" the banker wrote.

"So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset," he said. "Let me explain, you're 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!"

"It doesn't make good business sense to "buy you" (which is what you're asking) so I'd rather lease," he said.

While the woman has since removed the ad from Craigslist, it -- along with the response -- has become a popular email joke that, bank JPMorgan Chase says, led to one of its bankers mistakenly being credited with writing the response.

Brian Marchiony, spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, said the banker did not write the response and that his email signature accidentally became attached to the ad and response when he forwarded it to friends and it then wound up on blogs.

Craigslist was not immediately available for comment, but a spokeswoman told The New York Times that "it does look as if the post was made sincerely."

[Winston]

Market forces are at work; the law of supply and demand is at work too. Personal ads work quite well if you want to date Black girls by the way. I have tried and I dated some gorgeous black women.

I remember once I tried and put an ad in a Philippine American newspaper. Guess how many responses? 0

I then put an ad in a Manila paper and got 60 responses from very beautiful women.

A Filipina lady who was 39, separated with 3 kids got some 40 responses. So there you are. You can see how all these different markets work.

W: Ladislav, isn't your signature supposed to read "rich in hell or poor in paradise"?

[ladislav]

[quote}

W: Ladislav, isn't your signature supposed to read "rich in hell or poor in paradise"?[/quote]

No, because when I was a teacher in the US, I worked long hours and lived in a bad neighborhood. My money, after paying high rents, taxes and insurance was always gone, making me poor.

However, once I started using the same money per month in cheaper countries, I became "rich" overnight. And I had dates and all such things which made it paradise.


Hence, the signature.

[Winston]

[quote}

W: Ladislav, isn't your signature supposed to read "rich in hell or poor in paradise"?

No, because when I was a teacher in the US, I worked long hours and lived in a bad neighborhood. My money, after paying high rents, taxes and insurance was always gone, making me poor.

However, once I started using the same money per month in cheaper countries, I became "rich" overnight. And I had dates and all such things which made it paradise.


Hence, the signature.[/quote]

W: But there's nothing thought provoking about the quote. Of course everyone wants to be rich in paradise. So what does the question lead to or inspire exactly?