Happier Abroad Forum Community

I have a question. When we are abroad, we often get asked about America during conversations with women. When that happens, should we be honest about America like we are in this forum and risk sounding like negative losers? Or should we lie and say only positive things about America and play along with their false assumptions about it?

The thing is, when we are abroad, we often meet people who assume that America is a friendly open fun country where it's easy to meet people and make friends. For some reason, people in Asia hold that common myth about America. This puts us in a precarious position, because:

1) If we tell them the truth about America - e.g. it being fake and inauthentic, having no social connection, having women with the worst attitude and fakest personality, having unfriendly people who don't talk to strangers, being hard to make friends or meet people, etc. - then we run the risk of sounding like negative jaded people who have a chip on their shoulder, which doesn't look attractive and can make us look like losers. Some people may be turned off, especially if they don't know us that well, because you are supposed to only talk about polite lighthearted positive subjects with strangers and new friends or acquaintances. So talking about negative truths early on could turn off a lot of people and make them avoid us, thus causing us to lose potential new friends, dates and social contacts.

2) However, if we play along with their false assumptions and tell them that America is a fun, exciting country with friendly open social people, and that it's easy to make friends there, then we will be lying and feel guilty for it, because lying compromises our integrity. We are truth seekers here and it would make us sick to play along with a false myth and tell positive lies about America.

So should we tell the foreign women and people we meet abroad, the truth about America?

I find that I'm often in this situation abroad, even in China. A lot of Chinese women ask me about America, and I'm not sure whether to be honest or how honest to be. Perhaps it's better to be vague and change the subject.

For example, when I tell Chinese women that America is not open or friendly, and that it's hard to meet people or make friends there, many of them try to debate me by claiming that Chinese people in China are just as closed and snobby and don't talk to strangers. When they do, I stump them with these logical questions:

- If China is just as closed and snobby as America, then how come I am able to find people to spend my holidays and birthdays with in China, but in America I can't find anyone to celebrate holidays and birthdays with? How come I have dates on Valentine's Day when I'm abroad, but not in America?
- How come I meet more people in China in one week, than I do in America in one year?
- How come I am able to get many dates with women in China, but not in America?
- How come no one wants to talk to me or meet me in America, but in China many people do?
- How come I get a lot of responses on dating sites from women in China, but when I try to meet women in America, I get ZERO responses?
- How come in your country, I don't have to act fake and pretend to be great and positive 24/7 like I do in America? How come I can be myself here?
- How come YOU are talking to me and socializing with me in a friendly manner right now? In America, a good looking woman like you would NEVER talk to me for long. She would be unfriendly and stuck up and think she's too good for me. Aren't YOU yourself living proof that what I say is true? How was I able to meet you then, if women in your country are just as closed as in America? (that one stumps them everytime)
- How come only the Chinese in China (and the Asians in Asia) think that America is very open and friendly and social? But the Chinese who actually live in America DO NOT think that America is very open and friendly and social? Think about it. Go live in America and you will tell me that all I say is true.
- I know mainland Chinese in America who can verify that all I say is true. Would you like to contact them?

(Note: The above applies to Russia, Philippines, Thailand, Eastern Europe and Latin America too.)

The above questions PROVE without a doubt that dating and social life for men is MUCH BETTER in China than in America. After putting the above questions to them and stumping them, along with giving many reasons and examples, they are forced to concede my point, that it's harder to make friends or get dates in America than in China.

However, even after I win this debate, I still lose in a sense, because in explaining the above in detail, I come across as negative and jaded, like some loser who didn't fit in and is angry about it. The conversation turns negative and perhaps might become a bit emotionally draining as I pontificate on these taboo truths. So there is a price to pay for being honest. You may make a bad impression on others by telling the truth about America.

I find that when I tell women in Asia that "Americans are not open and friendly and that it's hard to meet people or make friends in America", they often look at me as if I said that the moon was made of Swiss cheese, because that truth goes against what they've always believed about America being very open and friendly and social.

What I've also noticed is that there is a gender difference here. It is the foreign WOMEN who tend to have trouble believing the truth about America. Foreign men, on the other hand, are much more open to hearing the truth about America and accept it a lot more easily. I think the reason for this is because: Women tend to prefer what's POPULAR, not what's true, whereas men prefer what's TRUE.

You see, women don't love truth the way men do. That's why almost all the greatest philosophers in history have been men, not women. And that's why most women will tell obvious lies, such as "appearance doesn't matter", whereas men never say that because they know it's not true. Of course appearance matters. If it didn't then why would women care about their clothes, hair, makeup, etc.? And why would women treat tall handsome men better than unattractive men? Duh. So women are obviously lying when they say that, yet most women will say that anyway, because saying what's popular and makes them look good, is more important than being honest and telling the truth. You will never hear a man saying that "appearance doesn't matter" because men are too straightforward and honest to say something so obviously untrue. Yet most women I know will say that, thus they knowingly lie. Yet in spite of this, the Western media and culture try to portray women as being more honest than men. Go figure. Anyhow, this seems to be a major difference between men and women.

Likewise, the statement that "It's hard to make friends or meet people or get dates in America" is an UNPOPULAR and taboo statement, so women have a harder time accepting it and will try to debate it or deny it. Women prefer to hear popular statements that are more positive and politically correct, even if they're untrue. That's a pattern I've noticed.

So it's a difficult situation here. Should we tell foreign women and girls we meet the truth about America? Or play along with their false view of America and say only positive things about it? Or change the subject?

When you talk to foreign women, you will inevitably be asked why you aren't living in America, or why you left it, or why you prefer to live abroad, or which country you like more, etc. You may even be asked why you don't have a girlfriend in America or why you aren't dating girls there. That puts us in the dilemma above.

Have any of you experienced this too? How have you all dealt with this situation? What do you all suggest I do in this situation?

Let's do a poll too. Cast your vote above for the question "Should we tell foreign women the truth about America when asked?"

You should tell the truth. It's up to them how they want to react.

How about those Chinese girls visit America ?

They could argue how easy is to meet people(guys) in bars, clubs, street, supermarket ,Facebook,etc, everyone is smiling and you'd never be able to convince them otherwise

No, you should not let them know we don't have good options in America, otherwise that will spoil them too -even if marginally- in as much as they know so.
If it comes up in conversation, i say stuff like 'they're not the best' or 'they're a bit rude'. But i don't go into great details.

On my china business trip, this chinese dude was talking over dinner how he wanted to go to America to find an American girl. I almost spit my water, i was going to tell him not to waste his time. But i refrained since this meeting was still work related nevertheless.

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Ghost wrote:I try to give a balanced view of things. I have told my foreign friends that traveling (not just to America) will not solve your problems. I usually do not go into details about it, though will say something like, "it's not like you see in the movies." A lot of my former students were rich kids, whose parents wanted to send them to America to study in a prestigious university. I've told them that America will suit their purposes just fine. (If you're rich, you'll have it made in America.)

I do that too. I try to give a list of pros and cons about America. However, once I say that the social life is not good in America or that people don't talk to strangers or that it's harder to make friends in America, some people look surprised and will try to debate me by saying that people are the same in their country and not anymore friendly. That's when I bring up the questions above which stumps them.

So even when I give a balanced view, I still get debates and denials because people in Asia have a hard time believing that America is not a friendly country. They act as if I said that the moon is made of Swiss cheese. lol. It's weird. Why doesn't anyone in their media tell the truth about America?

Banano wrote:How about those Chinese girls visit America ?

They could argue how easy is to meet people(guys) in bars, clubs, street, supermarket ,Facebook,etc, everyone is smiling and you'd never be able to convince them otherwise

Yes and no. Foreign women in America will tell you that yes they do get attention from lonely desperate guys who want to bed them. Of course. However, they will usually admit that it's hard to make real friends in America and that there is no social connection and that people are paranoid and don't talk to their neighbors. Especially if they are older women and more down to earth. It also depends on how Americanized they become. The more Americanized they become, the more fake they will be and parrot a bunch of politically correct bullshit. So it depends.

Ask any Mexican immigrant and you will find that they concur with our views about America. Why is it that everyone in Mexico KNOWS that America is not as open or friendly or social as Mexico is. Yet in Asia, everyone thinks the opposite? Weird.

I hate people that are outside of America yet still complain about it.
Especially on online forums.

No place is 100% bad. There are things I like about America. I love the weather in California. I like the beaches and the sea. I love the scenery in other places. I love American cars. I think America makes the coolest movies and TV shows on the planet and I like American music. I focus on those things, which is what people are superficially interested in anyway. No one has ever come out and ask me about women or social life in America in ALL my 7 years out here in Asia. Maybe that topic is too close to your heart and so conversations move that way.

If I do discuss those things, I saw people are busy and work a lot, and don't have time for fun. Money is important because life there is expensive. These are things people in developing countries can easily understand and agree with. Not everything has to descend into the kind of overly negative bashing common on this board. This makes me think people here have been too negatively affected by this stuff such that they no longer know how to have a normal conversation.

Let's be real. "The truth about America" is a big picture. Are you going to sit here and act like you don't know even ONE nice girl in the USA?!

eurobrat wrote:I hate people that are outside of America yet still complain about it. Especially on online forums.

I hate people who hate people that are outside of America yet still complain about it. Especially on online forums.

ryanx wrote:

eurobrat wrote:I hate people that are outside of America yet still complain about it. Especially on online forums.

I hate people who hate people that are outside of America yet still complain about it. Especially on online forums.

I hate people who call me out on my hating who are on online forums.

The_Adventurer wrote:No place is 100% bad. There are things I like about America. I love the weather in California. I like the beaches and the sea. I love the scenery in other places. I love American cars. I think America makes the coolest movies and TV shows on the planet and I like American music. I focus on those things, which is what people are superficially interested in anyway. No one has ever come out and ask me about women or social life in America in ALL my 7 years out here in Asia. Maybe that topic is too close to your heart and so conversations move that way.

If I do discuss those things, I saw people are busy and work a lot, and don't have time for fun. Money is important because life there is expensive. These are things people in developing countries can easily understand and agree with. Not everything has to descend into the kind of overly negative bashing common on this board. This makes me think people here have been too negatively affected by this stuff such that they no longer know how to have a normal conversation.

Let's be real. "The truth about America" is a big picture. Are you going to sit here and act like you don't know even ONE nice girl in the USA?!

The forum is infested with a polarized and extreme bitching mentality. Your seasoned and nuanced point of view will not be tolerated! Off with your head!

OutWest wrote:

The_Adventurer wrote:No place is 100% bad. There are things I like about America. I love the weather in California. I like the beaches and the sea. I love the scenery in other places. I love American cars. I think America makes the coolest movies and TV shows on the planet and I like American music. I focus on those things, which is what people are superficially interested in anyway. No one has ever come out and ask me about women or social life in America in ALL my 7 years out here in Asia. Maybe that topic is too close to your heart and so conversations move that way.

If I do discuss those things, I saw people are busy and work a lot, and don't have time for fun. Money is important because life there is expensive. These are things people in developing countries can easily understand and agree with. Not everything has to descend into the kind of overly negative bashing common on this board. This makes me think people here have been too negatively affected by this stuff such that they no longer know how to have a normal conversation.

Let's be real. "The truth about America" is a big picture. Are you going to sit here and act like you don't know even ONE nice girl in the USA?!

The forum is infested with a polarized and extreme bitching mentality. Your seasoned and nuanced point of view will not be tolerated! Off with your head!

Of course it is. But it's natural. Because a toxic negative society that tears you down, like west coast America does, will naturally produce wounded souls and psyches.

Sure there are good things about America if you want to find them. America has a glorious history that shows the good, the bad and the ugly of human history too. There's a lot to be proud of in America and it's accomplishments in history.

But the fact is, the dating and social life of modern America SUCkS for men, especially for men who are authentic and down to earth and too genuine, like we are.

For some reason, that's taboo to talk about. No one dares to bring it up. It's totally forbidden. Even anti-semitism is less taboo. That's because the law of political correctness says that you are only allowed to talk about economic problems and government tyranny. You are only allowed to bash the government. But when it comes to people and cultures, you are only allowed to say positive things - that everyone is friendly and wonderful and good. Etc. So you are never allowed to say that dating or social life sucks anywhere. Besides, you are conditioned to only care about economic problems and issues.

So our truth is way too taboo. It crosses the line too much.

In regard to this topic, what should I do then Terrence? Should I tell everyone abroad that America is a friendly country where it's easy to make friends? The thing is, most people in Asia see America as an exciting place that is open, wild and free. So what am I to do? Pretend that this delusion is true?

A lot of people in Asia are confused about why we would move to Asia when America is "the land of milk and honey". How do you explain it to them Terrence?

If I give a balanced view of pros and cons about America, one of the cons is that social life and social culture is not good in America, and that it's hard to make friends there. Should I omit that? If so, I will not be honest about what I'm passionate about talking about.

MarcosZeitola wrote: What is the truth about America, though? I hear so many different stories. From those who failed, negative. From those who made it, positive. And I am hearing all sorts of negative comments about American women and culture made by men well into their twenties or older, who are still virgins, barely ever talked to women let alone date them or get to know them on an intimate level... and yet these men know "the truth" about American society and American women, somehow?

One man's truth is not necessarily the truth of all men. It depends on personal experiences, personal opportunities, personal background. You can tell a foreign woman all about this, if you wish, but what would really be the point? What would you hope to achieve? A girl in a foreign country who has for all her life viewed America, Canada, Europe, the West, as "the land of milk and honey", the promised land... do you think such a girl will believe a word you say? Will she even WANT to believe it?

The answer is no, she won't. There are two types of foreign women: those who want to go to America, and those who don't. There's a smaller subset of those who are simply curious, would like to visit some time or are simply neutral on the whole situation. But if she has an idealized picture of America, nothing you say will convince her otherwise. It's not our duty to inform others.

When asked, we can honestly tell them "the truth". Which is: America is a country, it's has its upsides and its downsides, some men do fine there and others do not, some women enjoy it and others do not. But me? I am HappierAbroad.

Well Marcos, you should come to America and see for yourself if what we talk about is true. Especially you should come to Los Angeles, which considers itself to be the center of the world, but is actually the most fake and toxic place on earth.

You can also ask your fellow Europeans about America. The most honest and genuine Europeans will tell you that American culture is very fake and inauthentic and that it's hard to have any meaningful conversations with people there. Most Europeans have concurred with this. That's why the view of America in Europe is not as positive as it is in Asia. Europeans are more aware and broad minded so they see the truth about America more.

In addition, physical health and healthcare and quality of life in America is much lower than in Europe. See the book "The European Dream" by Jeremy Rifkin where he cites lots of evidence and research that backs this up. In France, for example, people live longer, are healthier, have better healthcare, and there is less of a gap between rich and poor than there is in America. I'm sure you are aware of this.

When the subject comes up with foreign men living here, I try to save them. I was at a work function the other day and talking to this Arab guy who loves white women and keeps trying to date them. He's determined not to marry a girl from back home (Iraq), even though his family is well off and can set him up with an educated, pretty Arab girl living in the US. Arabs have tight social circles that way; even after moving to the US you don't have to find your own wife if you don't want to.

He showed me a picture of the last girl they were trying to set him up with, and I was like "You idiot! Forget these white bitches and wife that girl up immediately"! I dont' understand these muslim guys; they access to attractive, sweet girls that have been raised to respect men and treat them well. They're perfect wife material, and my god so many of them are hot as hell. I seriously think the Turkey\Mesopotamia region has a much higher proportion of naturally hot women than anywhere else. And they're curvy in all the right places, too.

And yes these guys don't even appreciate what they have; they'd rather chase white skanks. They're dazzled by the sexy outfits and skin on display, not realizing their own women can be just as sexy, but without all the baggage.

Check this out. A mainland Chinese girl just introduced herself in my forum and wrote about being disappointed after coming to America:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26916

"I am from China and have been in the US for 8 years, I came here because i heard about US is the most free country in the world. The mainstream media here always shows China as some place has no freedom of speech and everything is so restrict, such as internet, because government install the filter for certain website. But I have to say when I was in China, I do experience happiness and sadness all the time, but I never feel lost or depressed. Even though I'm shy and quiet when I was a teenager, I feel completely okay to be myself. I have friends, parents who I can connect with. 
I used to think Americans live the best life in the world, because they seems always happy and positive. But I find behind the fake smile, there is nothing, there is no true connections. They put their mask on when they pretend to have a relationship with you, but actually not interested in what you are sharing at all. It seems like there is no deep feeling inside them, they are always happy, they want to be more happy, but not real. 
The real human experience is not all happiness, but this culture makes you feel that, if you are sad, there must be something wrong with you. Because everybody else is living a perfect life, look at their smiles. And it makes you feel that you have to change yourself to not to feel negative feeling anymore. No wonder people get depressed, the main reason is that you've been wearing the mask for so long that you lose touch with who you really are. But this society want you to be like that, "coolness" is overrated here. People want to be cool. I want to say "I don't care" attitude is not cool at all. How can you live in such isolated culture without feeling the deep sadness inside you? People are friendly but not your friend. They don't concern others' feeling but tell you the rules you have to follow, or there will be consequence. Do they really follow the rule? Look at the teenagers, many of them don't have basic respect to their parents and teachers, which is never a case in Asian culture.
Come on, we are all human being, US culture alienate people, and numb their emotions, so they lose their compassion for others. It is very sad to see it."

Great! Now whenever a Chinese woman whos never been to America tries to debate me and say that China is the same as America, I can show them the above post written by a girl from their own country, which will corroborate my claims.