Winston's Triple No-Win Situation in Dating: What's the Best Solution?

[vlkmo]

We will just be eternal eunuch in eternity...jokes on you.

[MrMan]

I've always thought this, as well, if I'm reading correctly. Most guys in their 20s, in my opinion, really just 'settle'. They're lonely, horny, or both and some girl shows interest and bam! You got a girlfriend, and it makes you feel good. You fu ck her everyday and, well, sometimes they get pregnant, and like next things you know your 22 and a father, and you're life is never the same. It happened to a couple guys I know. I guess they don't care. We have a strong biological urge to mate.

Me personally, I've always been picky. MR MAN has stated this as well. I just seem to have a very narrow range of girls I'm really attracted to. Both looks and personality. I generally like brunettes over blondes, fit, but not too so, and nice legs and butt. Man, do I love asses. It really is the best imo. Big, round, firm, lifted. And smart too. She doesn't have to be a Rhodes scholar, and I would like it if she weren't, but just...curious, deep, philosophical, engaging. I know it when I see it, but it's rare. I guess for alot of guys they'd rather be with a girl who they aren't necessarily crazy about than be alone. Everyone is different.

I'll share my thoughts on this, since I've gotten some positive feedback, as a man in my 50's coming from my perspective as a Christian of the more conservative traditional perspective.

The desire for sex is real. So is the desire for enjoying the companionship of a woman, the desire to appreciate a woman's beauty. I'm attracted to a relatively small percentage of women, but within that percentage, there was a smaller percentage I would have considered for marriage. If I had had no qualms about fornicating, I might have fornicated more broadly, with girls I thought for 6 or 7s... just for a night... because it would have been fun and felt good. But as a Christian, I considered that a bad thing to do. For one thing, it's fornication and a sin against God, and I'd but be using a girl for a night who might be expecting something else beyond being just a one-night bit of recreation.

I also get appreciating butts. A pretty face is more important to me. I didn't appreciate this as much while dating as I do now. I didn't really want a really big butt on a woman, but a nice round one to look at and something big enough to squeeze is nice, especially unclothed. It's like it's soothing to grab on it. I usually go for a squeeze if my wife is going into or out of the shower. It's really soothing.

I dated a nearly buttless Indonesian girl in Indonesia. She had a pretty face, but was skinny and pretty much buttless, even more buttless than the Koreans there, who tend to be kind of flat-butted compared to Indonesians in general. I just dated the girl for several weeks. But I was trying to avoid fornication and I wanted to marry a virgin. The girl went to church, but some things she said gave me the impression that I could do with her whatever I wanted, and all that was keeping me from it was my self control, which seemed a dangerous place for me. When she confided in me that she'd slept with a boyfriend who'd married some other woman, I looked disappointed. I was thinking I'd better break up with this girl or I'd fall. She could see my disappointment and said I probably wanted a virgin.... uh, yeah I did. We broke it off, remained friendly for the weeks or months I was there. I gave her my VCR and tapes when I left. (They didn't pay her well at the factory.)

I believe sex is for marriage, and if a man steps back from his feelings of horniness and his desire to enjoy a woman's body and get female attention, saving sex for marriage makes sense. Why? It's where the babies come from. As some MRAs point out, research shows that a children raised without a father corresponds with all kinds of an increased chance of problems for the child, things that don't show up statistically even in homes where the child is raised without the mother. Without the father in the home, there are higher chances of low grades, problems with the law, substance abuse problems, and teen pregnancy.

As a Christian I think of 'he that will not provide for his own has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel' and the admonition to fathers (/parents) to raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. The idea of having a child I didn't know about that I didn't raise would be very unsettling to me. The idea of being a sperm donor at a sperm bank is also unsettling. Why would a man do such a thing, let some lesbians raise his kids and he doesn't even know the kid or act as a father to him? There are men who get blindsided by divorce who are separated from their kids, men separated by military orders, some who die early deaths. But if it's your choice, raise your own kids.

If you want a pretty girl, don't settle. If you don't settle, don't sleep with her. Let's say you date a girl who is just barely 'doable' but not 'marriageable' in your eyes... I mean if you want a pretty woman you can just lay there and feel entertained just looking at her face (and body) if you had to TV or tickets to a ball game hopefully for years to come. But you sleep with this girl you aren't that attracted to because you figure she's pretty enough to bang. You could develop feelings and date her for a long time. It's not wrong if it takes you a while to figure out the whole package is attracted to you, and your ideas of what's attractive change as you get to know her. But if it's just a temporary thing in your mind that will never lead to marriage, you are just using her, taking something that should belong to her husband later. That's a bad thing to do. (Fornication is one thing I know of that the Bible says God will punish/get vengeance on Christians for... it's defrauding a brother as per I Thessalonians 4.)

Condoms are said to be 92% effective. If you did get 'sex every night' or nearly every night, even without periods, it doesn't take the long to rack up 100 times. If a woman is young and fertile, it's possible for her to get pregnant with a condom. Also, if she encourages you to finish, but then it turns out she's on the cusp of an O when you finally get done, and you manage to power through the sensitivity (you young men get) to let her finish at a good stopping point, sloshing all that stuff in the condom on a 90% pitched tent is likely to lead to a leak. If you are a considerate lover, you can end up getting her pregnant.

So then you get this woman pregnant who is a 'second round draft pick' in your eyes-- settling, someone you wouldn't have chosen for looks, maybe even for personality, for values, for being pleasant and not annoying, for being controlling and not submissive, for morality, etc. You could end up with a sub-optimally attractive, controlling, demanding, unreasonable woman, maybe even one who wouldn't make the best mother. Why? Because you were lonely, horny, bored, etc. and didn't exercise some self-control.

I think it's far superior to keep it zipped up until you marry, and marry a woman with the same attitude who appreciates your self control. She may have urges, too, but has self-control that outweighs that. Then you date her.... trying to be fair about not wasting her time or breaking her heart if she isn't what you want. If there is a true deal breaker, you break it off fast so she'll end up less hurt in the long run. You don't date to fulfill emotional needs at the expensive of her long-term needs or marital objectives, or your own. Dating is a tool to find a wife.

For me, the prospective wife has to have her priorities right. Before that, I did. The kingdom of God is first. Eternal things first. My wife had to put God first in her priorities. That means she's not fornicating, and after marriage, she isn't going to do something immoral like commit adultery or leave me over relational issues or because she gets bored. Those were some big things I was looking for. She would need to embrace the Biblical role of a wife, which means she knows going into it that she is supposed to submit to her husband and reverence ('fear') him, as I seek to embrace my role in honoring my wife and loving her as Christ loved the church. That's not something that comes natural to my wife, who is a dynamic and energetic type woman with a lot of ideas. But I do think it has helped settle conflict as she considers this, and helps us get along going forward.

As far as your sexual expectations go-- every night--I don't want to burst your bubble. I mean, you could end up with a girl like this. As a young man, when I read that married couples were only have sex two or three times a week, i was stunned, disappointed, and confused. I mean, you've got this partner there you can and may have sex with... I mean, twice a week? Why starve yourself? But I suspect if you do, that will last for a while if the relationship is new. But aging, childbirth, etc. might mess that up. And let's not forget periods. personally, I don't feel comfortable with period sex for religious reasons. God drove Gentiles out of the land for this and a list of other sexual and idolatrous things. I also read that men who, during certain years of their life ejaculated 21 times a week had the lowest prostate cancer rates (or was it another prostate issue?). I also did some research that I think was about lower cancer corresponding with regular sex, and more sex than the 'target' amount got some of those same benefits.

With my wife, until the first baby or until late in the pregnancy other than a few weeks of sickness and travelling (a rough ordeal in Indonesia, sleeping on the floor in the village or in a human cattle car like environment on a ship) I got some kind of 'release' every night. But for the wife, that was every other night. She'd get sore. I think younger women can be a bit fragile down there and need a rest. (Sample size of one here in my case.) But she would give me 'release' the other nights. Roman Catholics may not have that option, though.

Healing up after the baby is a big ordeal. It's amazing they can heal up downstairs after all that trauma downstairs. I noticed fewer 'ouches' after childbirth had healed up from our intimate activities. But with a baby, a woman can get 'touched out.' And I think craving oxytocin from touch _can_ contribute to a woman's sex drive. But holding a baby isn't going to stave off a man's sex drive.

Ideally, going into marriage with a virgin or repented former fornicator, before getting to a proposal, it is good to talk this stuff out. If you think you will want sex every night (or non-period nights), how is she going to handle that? What's her attitude? I Corinthians 7 says to render what is due our partner, not to defraud one another except by mutual consent for prayer and fasting. The husband has power over the wife's body and the wife has power over the wife's body. My understanding is that each has the right to 'require' sex of the other. Of course, you want that rendered with a good, willful attitude. And then you can talk about marriage roles, submission, the man's role and responsibility in the marriage, how many children to have and how to raise children, how to handle money (joint accounts, what to do with giving, etc.)

If there isn't anything in that either of you can't live with, you have the same faith and you are compatible, then you get parental permission, approval, and blessing, especially from the bride's father, and you can move forward.

Then you have babies in the marriage with someone committed to you for life-- committed to please you, to submit to you, reverence you as a husband, to work through problems to get along with you, to love you, to provide you with sex as you need, with an agreement on trying for kids and how to raise them, and you commit to love her as Christ loves the church, to honor her, to provide for her sexual needs, etc.

In that situation, then you have sex (lots of it if either of you want it that way) and raise the children that result from that.

I lost any qualm about the possibility of fornicating since I was a teen. ~20 years later and I'm still a 33 year old virgin and I had only one proper girlfriend, other than that, I couldn't find so much as a date or reply. I'm looking into mutual connection meets instead from now on. There's a difference between finding somebody and the experience being bad and not being noticed or wanted by 99% of the opposite sex at all.

Don't tell people who are in that situation to not fornicate or if they do they will go to hell. Even most people in the church conservative or liberal has technically had one event of extramarital sex at some point, or even non-coitus children.

If God is fair and good, he wouldn't punish his people for choosing to fornicate.

I got a little stumped with ...non-coitus' children? Do you mean people were doing some messy non-penetrative activity close to the old birth canal or something? You could make a t-shirt to sell these kids, "Non-coitus child."

If people are good and fair, they won't fornicate.

I don't remember who all did what. Have you gone to another country to see if you would be hotter on the dating market there--- following the 'happier abroad' or now they say 'passport bro' approach to this problem?

[yick]

I've always thought this, as well, if I'm reading correctly. Most guys in their 20s, in my opinion, really just 'settle'. They're lonely, horny, or both and some girl shows interest and bam! You got a girlfriend, and it makes you feel good. You fu ck her everyday and, well, sometimes they get pregnant, and like next things you know your 22 and a father, and you're life is never the same. It happened to a couple guys I know. I guess they don't care. We have a strong biological urge to mate.

Me personally, I've always been picky. MR MAN has stated this as well. I just seem to have a very narrow range of girls I'm really attracted to. Both looks and personality. I generally like brunettes over blondes, fit, but not too so, and nice legs and butt. Man, do I love asses. It really is the best imo. Big, round, firm, lifted. And smart too. She doesn't have to be a Rhodes scholar, and I would like it if she weren't, but just...curious, deep, philosophical, engaging. I know it when I see it, but it's rare. I guess for alot of guys they'd rather be with a girl who they aren't necessarily crazy about than be alone. Everyone is different.

I'll share my thoughts on this, since I've gotten some positive feedback, as a man in my 50's coming from my perspective as a Christian of the more conservative traditional perspective.

The desire for sex is real. So is the desire for enjoying the companionship of a woman, the desire to appreciate a woman's beauty. I'm attracted to a relatively small percentage of women, but within that percentage, there was a smaller percentage I would have considered for marriage. If I had had no qualms about fornicating, I might have fornicated more broadly, with girls I thought for 6 or 7s... just for a night... because it would have been fun and felt good. But as a Christian, I considered that a bad thing to do. For one thing, it's fornication and a sin against God, and I'd but be using a girl for a night who might be expecting something else beyond being just a one-night bit of recreation.

I also get appreciating butts. A pretty face is more important to me. I didn't appreciate this as much while dating as I do now. I didn't really want a really big butt on a woman, but a nice round one to look at and something big enough to squeeze is nice, especially unclothed. It's like it's soothing to grab on it. I usually go for a squeeze if my wife is going into or out of the shower. It's really soothing.

I dated a nearly buttless Indonesian girl in Indonesia. She had a pretty face, but was skinny and pretty much buttless, even more buttless than the Koreans there, who tend to be kind of flat-butted compared to Indonesians in general. I just dated the girl for several weeks. But I was trying to avoid fornication and I wanted to marry a virgin. The girl went to church, but some things she said gave me the impression that I could do with her whatever I wanted, and all that was keeping me from it was my self control, which seemed a dangerous place for me. When she confided in me that she'd slept with a boyfriend who'd married some other woman, I looked disappointed. I was thinking I'd better break up with this girl or I'd fall. She could see my disappointment and said I probably wanted a virgin.... uh, yeah I did. We broke it off, remained friendly for the weeks or months I was there. I gave her my VCR and tapes when I left. (They didn't pay her well at the factory.)

I believe sex is for marriage, and if a man steps back from his feelings of horniness and his desire to enjoy a woman's body and get female attention, saving sex for marriage makes sense. Why? It's where the babies come from. As some MRAs point out, research shows that a children raised without a father corresponds with all kinds of an increased chance of problems for the child, things that don't show up statistically even in homes where the child is raised without the mother. Without the father in the home, there are higher chances of low grades, problems with the law, substance abuse problems, and teen pregnancy.

As a Christian I think of 'he that will not provide for his own has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel' and the admonition to fathers (/parents) to raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. The idea of having a child I didn't know about that I didn't raise would be very unsettling to me. The idea of being a sperm donor at a sperm bank is also unsettling. Why would a man do such a thing, let some lesbians raise his kids and he doesn't even know the kid or act as a father to him? There are men who get blindsided by divorce who are separated from their kids, men separated by military orders, some who die early deaths. But if it's your choice, raise your own kids.

If you want a pretty girl, don't settle. If you don't settle, don't sleep with her. Let's say you date a girl who is just barely 'doable' but not 'marriageable' in your eyes... I mean if you want a pretty woman you can just lay there and feel entertained just looking at her face (and body) if you had to TV or tickets to a ball game hopefully for years to come. But you sleep with this girl you aren't that attracted to because you figure she's pretty enough to bang. You could develop feelings and date her for a long time. It's not wrong if it takes you a while to figure out the whole package is attracted to you, and your ideas of what's attractive change as you get to know her. But if it's just a temporary thing in your mind that will never lead to marriage, you are just using her, taking something that should belong to her husband later. That's a bad thing to do. (Fornication is one thing I know of that the Bible says God will punish/get vengeance on Christians for... it's defrauding a brother as per I Thessalonians 4.)

Condoms are said to be 92% effective. If you did get 'sex every night' or nearly every night, even without periods, it doesn't take the long to rack up 100 times. If a woman is young and fertile, it's possible for her to get pregnant with a condom. Also, if she encourages you to finish, but then it turns out she's on the cusp of an O when you finally get done, and you manage to power through the sensitivity (you young men get) to let her finish at a good stopping point, sloshing all that stuff in the condom on a 90% pitched tent is likely to lead to a leak. If you are a considerate lover, you can end up getting her pregnant.

So then you get this woman pregnant who is a 'second round draft pick' in your eyes-- settling, someone you wouldn't have chosen for looks, maybe even for personality, for values, for being pleasant and not annoying, for being controlling and not submissive, for morality, etc. You could end up with a sub-optimally attractive, controlling, demanding, unreasonable woman, maybe even one who wouldn't make the best mother. Why? Because you were lonely, horny, bored, etc. and didn't exercise some self-control.

I think it's far superior to keep it zipped up until you marry, and marry a woman with the same attitude who appreciates your self control. She may have urges, too, but has self-control that outweighs that. Then you date her.... trying to be fair about not wasting her time or breaking her heart if she isn't what you want. If there is a true deal breaker, you break it off fast so she'll end up less hurt in the long run. You don't date to fulfill emotional needs at the expensive of her long-term needs or marital objectives, or your own. Dating is a tool to find a wife.

For me, the prospective wife has to have her priorities right. Before that, I did. The kingdom of God is first. Eternal things first. My wife had to put God first in her priorities. That means she's not fornicating, and after marriage, she isn't going to do something immoral like commit adultery or leave me over relational issues or because she gets bored. Those were some big things I was looking for. She would need to embrace the Biblical role of a wife, which means she knows going into it that she is supposed to submit to her husband and reverence ('fear') him, as I seek to embrace my role in honoring my wife and loving her as Christ loved the church. That's not something that comes natural to my wife, who is a dynamic and energetic type woman with a lot of ideas. But I do think it has helped settle conflict as she considers this, and helps us get along going forward.

As far as your sexual expectations go-- every night--I don't want to burst your bubble. I mean, you could end up with a girl like this. As a young man, when I read that married couples were only have sex two or three times a week, i was stunned, disappointed, and confused. I mean, you've got this partner there you can and may have sex with... I mean, twice a week? Why starve yourself? But I suspect if you do, that will last for a while if the relationship is new. But aging, childbirth, etc. might mess that up. And let's not forget periods. personally, I don't feel comfortable with period sex for religious reasons. God drove Gentiles out of the land for this and a list of other sexual and idolatrous things. I also read that men who, during certain years of their life ejaculated 21 times a week had the lowest prostate cancer rates (or was it another prostate issue?). I also did some research that I think was about lower cancer corresponding with regular sex, and more sex than the 'target' amount got some of those same benefits.

With my wife, until the first baby or until late in the pregnancy other than a few weeks of sickness and travelling (a rough ordeal in Indonesia, sleeping on the floor in the village or in a human cattle car like environment on a ship) I got some kind of 'release' every night. But for the wife, that was every other night. She'd get sore. I think younger women can be a bit fragile down there and need a rest. (Sample size of one here in my case.) But she would give me 'release' the other nights. Roman Catholics may not have that option, though.

Healing up after the baby is a big ordeal. It's amazing they can heal up downstairs after all that trauma downstairs. I noticed fewer 'ouches' after childbirth had healed up from our intimate activities. But with a baby, a woman can get 'touched out.' And I think craving oxytocin from touch _can_ contribute to a woman's sex drive. But holding a baby isn't going to stave off a man's sex drive.

Ideally, going into marriage with a virgin or repented former fornicator, before getting to a proposal, it is good to talk this stuff out. If you think you will want sex every night (or non-period nights), how is she going to handle that? What's her attitude? I Corinthians 7 says to render what is due our partner, not to defraud one another except by mutual consent for prayer and fasting. The husband has power over the wife's body and the wife has power over the wife's body. My understanding is that each has the right to 'require' sex of the other. Of course, you want that rendered with a good, willful attitude. And then you can talk about marriage roles, submission, the man's role and responsibility in the marriage, how many children to have and how to raise children, how to handle money (joint accounts, what to do with giving, etc.)

If there isn't anything in that either of you can't live with, you have the same faith and you are compatible, then you get parental permission, approval, and blessing, especially from the bride's father, and you can move forward.

Then you have babies in the marriage with someone committed to you for life-- committed to please you, to submit to you, reverence you as a husband, to work through problems to get along with you, to love you, to provide you with sex as you need, with an agreement on trying for kids and how to raise them, and you commit to love her as Christ loves the church, to honor her, to provide for her sexual needs, etc.

In that situation, then you have sex (lots of it if either of you want it that way) and raise the children that result from that.

I lost any qualm about the possibility of fornicating since I was a teen. ~20 years later and I'm still a 33 year old virgin and I had only one proper girlfriend, other than that, I couldn't find so much as a date or reply. I'm looking into mutual connection meets instead from now on. There's a difference between finding somebody and the experience being bad and not being noticed or wanted by 99% of the opposite sex at all.

Don't tell people who are in that situation to not fornicate or if they do they will go to hell. Even most people in the church conservative or liberal has technically had one event of extramarital sex at some point, or even non-coitus children.

If God is fair and good, he wouldn't punish his people for choosing to fornicate.

Why don't you just go to Thailand or the Philippines and find a woman? Just for a holiday of getting laid.

No western male in the first world has to die a virgin - what do you think this movement is all about?

[vlkmo]

I've always thought this, as well, if I'm reading correctly. Most guys in their 20s, in my opinion, really just 'settle'. They're lonely, horny, or both and some girl shows interest and bam! You got a girlfriend, and it makes you feel good. You fu ck her everyday and, well, sometimes they get pregnant, and like next things you know your 22 and a father, and you're life is never the same. It happened to a couple guys I know. I guess they don't care. We have a strong biological urge to mate.

Me personally, I've always been picky. MR MAN has stated this as well. I just seem to have a very narrow range of girls I'm really attracted to. Both looks and personality. I generally like brunettes over blondes, fit, but not too so, and nice legs and butt. Man, do I love asses. It really is the best imo. Big, round, firm, lifted. And smart too. She doesn't have to be a Rhodes scholar, and I would like it if she weren't, but just...curious, deep, philosophical, engaging. I know it when I see it, but it's rare. I guess for alot of guys they'd rather be with a girl who they aren't necessarily crazy about than be alone. Everyone is different.

I'll share my thoughts on this, since I've gotten some positive feedback, as a man in my 50's coming from my perspective as a Christian of the more conservative traditional perspective.

The desire for sex is real. So is the desire for enjoying the companionship of a woman, the desire to appreciate a woman's beauty. I'm attracted to a relatively small percentage of women, but within that percentage, there was a smaller percentage I would have considered for marriage. If I had had no qualms about fornicating, I might have fornicated more broadly, with girls I thought for 6 or 7s... just for a night... because it would have been fun and felt good. But as a Christian, I considered that a bad thing to do. For one thing, it's fornication and a sin against God, and I'd but be using a girl for a night who might be expecting something else beyond being just a one-night bit of recreation.

I also get appreciating butts. A pretty face is more important to me. I didn't appreciate this as much while dating as I do now. I didn't really want a really big butt on a woman, but a nice round one to look at and something big enough to squeeze is nice, especially unclothed. It's like it's soothing to grab on it. I usually go for a squeeze if my wife is going into or out of the shower. It's really soothing.

I dated a nearly buttless Indonesian girl in Indonesia. She had a pretty face, but was skinny and pretty much buttless, even more buttless than the Koreans there, who tend to be kind of flat-butted compared to Indonesians in general. I just dated the girl for several weeks. But I was trying to avoid fornication and I wanted to marry a virgin. The girl went to church, but some things she said gave me the impression that I could do with her whatever I wanted, and all that was keeping me from it was my self control, which seemed a dangerous place for me. When she confided in me that she'd slept with a boyfriend who'd married some other woman, I looked disappointed. I was thinking I'd better break up with this girl or I'd fall. She could see my disappointment and said I probably wanted a virgin.... uh, yeah I did. We broke it off, remained friendly for the weeks or months I was there. I gave her my VCR and tapes when I left. (They didn't pay her well at the factory.)

I believe sex is for marriage, and if a man steps back from his feelings of horniness and his desire to enjoy a woman's body and get female attention, saving sex for marriage makes sense. Why? It's where the babies come from. As some MRAs point out, research shows that a children raised without a father corresponds with all kinds of an increased chance of problems for the child, things that don't show up statistically even in homes where the child is raised without the mother. Without the father in the home, there are higher chances of low grades, problems with the law, substance abuse problems, and teen pregnancy.

As a Christian I think of 'he that will not provide for his own has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel' and the admonition to fathers (/parents) to raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. The idea of having a child I didn't know about that I didn't raise would be very unsettling to me. The idea of being a sperm donor at a sperm bank is also unsettling. Why would a man do such a thing, let some lesbians raise his kids and he doesn't even know the kid or act as a father to him? There are men who get blindsided by divorce who are separated from their kids, men separated by military orders, some who die early deaths. But if it's your choice, raise your own kids.

If you want a pretty girl, don't settle. If you don't settle, don't sleep with her. Let's say you date a girl who is just barely 'doable' but not 'marriageable' in your eyes... I mean if you want a pretty woman you can just lay there and feel entertained just looking at her face (and body) if you had to TV or tickets to a ball game hopefully for years to come. But you sleep with this girl you aren't that attracted to because you figure she's pretty enough to bang. You could develop feelings and date her for a long time. It's not wrong if it takes you a while to figure out the whole package is attracted to you, and your ideas of what's attractive change as you get to know her. But if it's just a temporary thing in your mind that will never lead to marriage, you are just using her, taking something that should belong to her husband later. That's a bad thing to do. (Fornication is one thing I know of that the Bible says God will punish/get vengeance on Christians for... it's defrauding a brother as per I Thessalonians 4.)

Condoms are said to be 92% effective. If you did get 'sex every night' or nearly every night, even without periods, it doesn't take the long to rack up 100 times. If a woman is young and fertile, it's possible for her to get pregnant with a condom. Also, if she encourages you to finish, but then it turns out she's on the cusp of an O when you finally get done, and you manage to power through the sensitivity (you young men get) to let her finish at a good stopping point, sloshing all that stuff in the condom on a 90% pitched tent is likely to lead to a leak. If you are a considerate lover, you can end up getting her pregnant.

So then you get this woman pregnant who is a 'second round draft pick' in your eyes-- settling, someone you wouldn't have chosen for looks, maybe even for personality, for values, for being pleasant and not annoying, for being controlling and not submissive, for morality, etc. You could end up with a sub-optimally attractive, controlling, demanding, unreasonable woman, maybe even one who wouldn't make the best mother. Why? Because you were lonely, horny, bored, etc. and didn't exercise some self-control.

I think it's far superior to keep it zipped up until you marry, and marry a woman with the same attitude who appreciates your self control. She may have urges, too, but has self-control that outweighs that. Then you date her.... trying to be fair about not wasting her time or breaking her heart if she isn't what you want. If there is a true deal breaker, you break it off fast so she'll end up less hurt in the long run. You don't date to fulfill emotional needs at the expensive of her long-term needs or marital objectives, or your own. Dating is a tool to find a wife.

For me, the prospective wife has to have her priorities right. Before that, I did. The kingdom of God is first. Eternal things first. My wife had to put God first in her priorities. That means she's not fornicating, and after marriage, she isn't going to do something immoral like commit adultery or leave me over relational issues or because she gets bored. Those were some big things I was looking for. She would need to embrace the Biblical role of a wife, which means she knows going into it that she is supposed to submit to her husband and reverence ('fear') him, as I seek to embrace my role in honoring my wife and loving her as Christ loved the church. That's not something that comes natural to my wife, who is a dynamic and energetic type woman with a lot of ideas. But I do think it has helped settle conflict as she considers this, and helps us get along going forward.

As far as your sexual expectations go-- every night--I don't want to burst your bubble. I mean, you could end up with a girl like this. As a young man, when I read that married couples were only have sex two or three times a week, i was stunned, disappointed, and confused. I mean, you've got this partner there you can and may have sex with... I mean, twice a week? Why starve yourself? But I suspect if you do, that will last for a while if the relationship is new. But aging, childbirth, etc. might mess that up. And let's not forget periods. personally, I don't feel comfortable with period sex for religious reasons. God drove Gentiles out of the land for this and a list of other sexual and idolatrous things. I also read that men who, during certain years of their life ejaculated 21 times a week had the lowest prostate cancer rates (or was it another prostate issue?). I also did some research that I think was about lower cancer corresponding with regular sex, and more sex than the 'target' amount got some of those same benefits.

With my wife, until the first baby or until late in the pregnancy other than a few weeks of sickness and travelling (a rough ordeal in Indonesia, sleeping on the floor in the village or in a human cattle car like environment on a ship) I got some kind of 'release' every night. But for the wife, that was every other night. She'd get sore. I think younger women can be a bit fragile down there and need a rest. (Sample size of one here in my case.) But she would give me 'release' the other nights. Roman Catholics may not have that option, though.

Healing up after the baby is a big ordeal. It's amazing they can heal up downstairs after all that trauma downstairs. I noticed fewer 'ouches' after childbirth had healed up from our intimate activities. But with a baby, a woman can get 'touched out.' And I think craving oxytocin from touch _can_ contribute to a woman's sex drive. But holding a baby isn't going to stave off a man's sex drive.

Ideally, going into marriage with a virgin or repented former fornicator, before getting to a proposal, it is good to talk this stuff out. If you think you will want sex every night (or non-period nights), how is she going to handle that? What's her attitude? I Corinthians 7 says to render what is due our partner, not to defraud one another except by mutual consent for prayer and fasting. The husband has power over the wife's body and the wife has power over the wife's body. My understanding is that each has the right to 'require' sex of the other. Of course, you want that rendered with a good, willful attitude. And then you can talk about marriage roles, submission, the man's role and responsibility in the marriage, how many children to have and how to raise children, how to handle money (joint accounts, what to do with giving, etc.)

If there isn't anything in that either of you can't live with, you have the same faith and you are compatible, then you get parental permission, approval, and blessing, especially from the bride's father, and you can move forward.

Then you have babies in the marriage with someone committed to you for life-- committed to please you, to submit to you, reverence you as a husband, to work through problems to get along with you, to love you, to provide you with sex as you need, with an agreement on trying for kids and how to raise them, and you commit to love her as Christ loves the church, to honor her, to provide for her sexual needs, etc.

In that situation, then you have sex (lots of it if either of you want it that way) and raise the children that result from that.

I lost any qualm about the possibility of fornicating since I was a teen. ~20 years later and I'm still a 33 year old virgin and I had only one proper girlfriend, other than that, I couldn't find so much as a date or reply. I'm looking into mutual connection meets instead from now on. There's a difference between finding somebody and the experience being bad and not being noticed or wanted by 99% of the opposite sex at all.

Don't tell people who are in that situation to not fornicate or if they do they will go to hell. Even most people in the church conservative or liberal has technically had one event of extramarital sex at some point, or even non-coitus children.

If God is fair and good, he wouldn't punish his people for choosing to fornicate.

I got a little stumped with ...non-coitus' children? Do you mean people were doing some messy non-penetrative activity close to the old birth canal or something? You could make a t-shirt to sell these kids, "Non-coitus child."

If people are good and fair, they won't fornicate.

I don't remember who all did what. Have you gone to another country to see if you would be hotter on the dating market there--- following the 'happier abroad' or now they say 'passport bro' approach to this problem?

I'll clarify...I simply meant to say children born out of wedlock.

[vlkmo]

@yick I accept that maybe I have to go to Thailand or whatever other country to find somebody...but I also think it's not fair that one has to uproot and move to a whole different country because their own country's dating market sucks. I also have a preference for beautiful white or white looking women.

Happier Abroad is kinda an escapism because it doesn't fix the root problem - the adverse cultural and dating issues back at home. And, eventuality globalism will destroy all unique culture.

[yick]

@yick I accept that maybe I have to go to Thailand or whatever other country to find somebody...but I also think it's not fair that one has to uproot and move to a whole different country because their own country's dating market sucks. I also have a preference for beautiful white or white looking women.

Happier Abroad is kinda an escapism because it doesn't fix the root problem - the adverse cultural and dating issues back at home. And, eventuality globalism will destroy all unique culture.

Well, you can rail against things you cannot change (globalism) or you can get on your horse and get your share. You cannot fix the root problem and as you get older and still never had sex with a woman, nobody is going to sympathise with you because what you want 'a beautiful white women where you live' is a premium for all but the most successful and handsome (white) men. Everyone is after that, so unless you're in that top bracket, what makes you think you're going to get that, globalism or not.

Most men whatever their colour cannot get beautiful white women. I know you like them, most men do but there are only so many of them to go around all the men that want one.

[vlkmo]

I'm white myself. I'm not poo-pooing the suggestion to find love abroad, I'm making a social asessment.

[my life is trash]

I'm white myself. I'm not poo-pooing the suggestion to find love abroad, I'm making a social asessment.

f**k white privileged scumbags like you.

[my life is trash]

@yick I accept that maybe I have to go to Thailand or whatever other country to find somebody...but I also think it's not fair that one has to uproot and move to a whole different country because their own country's dating market sucks. I also have a preference for beautiful white or white looking women.

Happier Abroad is kinda an escapism because it doesn't fix the root problem - the adverse cultural and dating issues back at home. And, eventuality globalism will destroy all unique culture.

Well, you can rail against things you cannot change (globalism) or you can get on your horse and get your share. You cannot fix the root problem and as you get older and still never had sex with a woman, nobody is going to sympathise with you because what you want 'a beautiful white women where you live' is a premium for all but the most successful and handsome (white) men. Everyone is after that, so unless you're in that top bracket, what makes you think you're going to get that, globalism or not.

Most men whatever their colour cannot get beautiful white women. I know you like them, most men do but there are only so many of them to go around all the men that want one.

I hate those f***ing white privileged scumbags.

[Shemp]

Happier Abroad is kinda an escapism because it doesn't fix the root problem - the adverse cultural and dating issues back at home. And, eventuality globalism will destroy all unique culture.

Everything is escapism according to your thinking. For example, if it's hot in the sun and I move into the shade, I'm engaging in escapism from the root problem of heat where there is no shade. If my current job is low pay and I switch to a better paying job, that's escapism from low pay and doesn't fix the root problem that low pay jobs even exist. With that type of idiotic thinking, you'll never get anywhere.

Also, globalism is collapsing as the USA led alliance gradually suffers defeat in WW3 against the China led alliance. Plenty of white women in Russia but high quality Chinese and Central Asian men will likely take them, not necessarily nincompoop westerners. All those cultures are successfully resisting western culture.