The Mormons, Joseph Smith, & Meadows Massacre Incident

[Winston]

Check out this documentary on Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism. It is very pro Mormon and makes him out to be like Jesus Christ in character. He sure looks handsome, charming and charismatic in the paintings of him. Doesn't he look handsome, holy, and spiritual? lol

I don't get it though. Why did so many people join his religion and believe in him even though he offered no proof? What does Mormonism offer than mainstream Christian churches don't?

Do you all think Joseph Smith was a con-man or did he really have a supernatural visitation from higher forces or entities or gods or ETs? A crazy man can't generate a big following like that which endures for this long. There has to be something real or powerful to it for that to happen right? Even if it's not the "only way to God" it still must have some power or grip on people to be able to convert so many and last this long right?

Also if he was so kind, loving, generous, and Christ like, then why did an angry mob assassinate him and why was he arrested twice? They wouldn't do that unless he did something wrong right?

Btw why were the Mormons kicked out of Missouri and Illinois? Why didnt everyone coexist with them peacefully with freedom of religion?



Another documentary on Joseph Smith.



This documentary is too pro Mormon. It doesn't answer an obvious question: If Joseph Smith was so kind, loving and Christ-like, then why did so many mobs want to kill him? And why was he arrested twice? He must have done something wrong to get arrested and hunted by mobs right? Why doesn't this film address that? It's an obvious and logical question that any thinking viewer would ask.

[Taco]

Mormons were forcibly removed from Ohio, Illinois and Missouri. They left New York state before things got nasty. If this had happened to any other group of people there would be public outrage.

Mormons were the first Europeans to settle the state of Utah, Eastern Idaho and Wyoming in the 1800's. However, the persecution did not stop when they arrived. Nowadays, they just make it look like an accident...

Mormons were exposed to radiation from Nevada's nuclear test site causing downs syndrome and cancer.



If you walk into any "Christian" bookstore you'll find an endless variety anti Mormon literature. Books, videos, pamphlets etc. all denouncing the Mormon church as a satanic cult. The literature is produced by Evangelical Christian groups that are financed by the CIA. They don't want you to know that.

What the anti Mormon literature doesn't tell you is that, unofficially, Mormons do not support communism. Which is the real reason for the persecution.

Former Secretary of Agriculture and Mormon Prophet, Ezra Taft Benson, warned in 1966 America would become a communist country...



Recently, the #2 man in the Mormon church, Dalin Oaks gave a speech talking about the importance of the US constitution. He doesn't mention the constitution prevents communism.

[Winston]

Of course they are against communism but the state of Utah is a theocracy. They violate the sacred line between church and state. They call it a "democratic theocracy" though which means you can vote there, but it's still a theocracy government.

There are also ties between Mormonism and Freemasonry. Joseph Smith was supposedly a Freemason too and used the same rites for Mormon initiation.

Why were the Mormons hated and persecuted? It can't just be for polygamy because Joseph Smith didn't introduce that until later. There must be something about it that incites hateful mobs. If Joseph Smith were kind, loving, and Christ-like why would mobs want to kill him and why would he be arrested twice?

[Winston]

Here's a movie that anti-Mormons will love because they can use it as a hammer in their vendetta against religion. I'm surprised atheists dont bring it up more often. Its about a tragic historical incident on 9/11 in 1857 called the "Meadows Massacre" where the Mormons massacred 120 men, women and children on a wagon train camped in Utah while passing through, for no reason, just because God told them to. Its never been fully explained and never been established if Brigham Young, the successor to Joseph Smith, had anything to do with it. The movie is a true story and shows how dangerous and delusional fanatics can be. Atheists will love it because it validates their anti religion views. See the trailer below.

September Dawn (2007)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473700/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

A lot of big events happen on 9/11 for some reason. I wonder if its a synchronicity. Or numerology. Did the number 911 in the US get chosen at random? I doubt it. Probably has some occult significance.

What's also odd is that the US government tried to ignore and cover up this mass murder. They didn't even prosecute anyone for it until 20 years later as if they didn't care and preferred to avoid it. And only one guy was convicted and executed for the massacre. Thats odd.

Since Joseph Smith was a Freemason, you gotta wonder if this wasn't some Masonic sacrifice ritual. I heard that Mormonism comes from Freemasonry too, according to truthers. Perhaps some deities made a pact with the Mormons that if they slaughtered those 120 people on the wagon train as a sacrifice to the gods, that they would let them keep their land in Utah and not be wiped out? Who knows. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

The whole movie "September Dawn" is up on YouTube for now if you wanna see it. The blonde girl in it is pretty cute. This movie is on a Mormon blacklist of course.

[Cornfed]

Of course they are against communism but the state of Utah is a theocracy. They violate the sacred line between church and state.

There is no such sacred line. European countries generally had a state religion and many American states were founded as explicitly religious colonies.

[Winston]

If anyone's interested, here's a documentary on what happened at Mountain Meadows when Mormons and Indians slaughtered 120 innocent men, women, and children.



A reading out loud on YouTube of the last testament and autobiography of John D. Lee, who was the only person convicted and executed for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and made a scapegoat for it, even though he wasn't the one who gave the order for it. He implicates Brigham Young in it.



PDF of John Lee's autobiography that he wrote before his execution.

https://ia800106.us.archive.org/17/item ... R_2441.pdf

His testimony in the newspaper.

https://www.newspapers.com/image/?clipp ... Pfit1TtAXQ

I don't understand something. Who gave the order for the massacre? that's the key question. Why did they execute John Lee only if he didn't give the order for it? that isn't logical. Why didn't the court and government try to find out who ordered it? Isn't that the key question?

Another thing I don't get. After the first attack on the wagon train, why didn't the settlers leave right away and head for California? They could have hitched their wagons at night and left under cover of darkness. It's better than staying and being a sitting duck and geting killed right?

Also, if the Mormons didn't want the wagon train around, why didn't they just order them to leave and give them advance warning so they could leave? Wouldn't that be the first and safest solution? Furthermore, why did the wagon train stay so long, nearly a whole week? Why didn't they stay one or two days and then leave? Isn't one or two days enough time to rest and continue on?

[Winston]

Question: I asked Mormon missionaries before how they know their faith is true and what evidence is there to support it. They had no response other than "I feel it's true so it's true". Is that the best they can do? Shouldn't missionaries be trained to do better than that? I visited an LDS church once in Utah. Same thing happened after the service. They took me to a room to talk to me about their faith, but could not give any evidence or reasoned arguments about why their faith is true.

Any LDS folks here or former LDS folks who can answer this question?

[Winston]

Wow the Mormons are pretty clean people. Not like modern Americans. lol

"The Word of Wisdom is a health code included in the Doctrine and Covenants, a book of scripture used by Latter-day Saints. The Word of Wisdom is most recognized for barring the use of alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco, but it also promises physical and spiritual blessings.

The Prophet Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom by revelation in 1833. He included it in a collection of revelations called the Doctrine and Covenants, which Latter-day Saints view as scripture. The revelation came to Joseph Smith during a time of intense public debate about alcohol consumption and after his wife, Emma, became frustrated by the mess caused by frequent tobacco use in her home.

The Word of Wisdom is recognized by most as the reason why members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not drink alcohol, coffee, or tea or use tobacco. The Word of Wisdom encourages using common sense and avoiding addictive substances, in addition to focusing on healthful eating and moderation.

The Word of Wisdom is primarily a health code, but the benefits are not only physical. Spiritual blessings, wisdom, and greater happiness are all promised to those who obey it. Most importantly, obedience to the Word of Wisdom helps promote greater spiritual revelation."

[Winston]

Of course they are against communism but the state of Utah is a theocracy. They violate the sacred line between church and state.

There is no such sacred line. European countries generally had a state religion and many American states were founded as explicitly religious colonies.

That was the 1600s. But when the US Constitution was formed in the late 1700s, there was a sacred line between church and state remember? Americans today definitely believe in that sacred line. Joseph Smith violated that line, that's one reason why many were angry at him.

But why do people swear on the Bible in court then? And why does US currency say "In God we trust" on it?

[Winston]

I got an obvious question. If Joseph Smith was God's prophet then why didn't God protect him from being assassinated by a mob? If God can't stop an angry mob, he must not be that powerful right? God doesn't have to be all powerful even if he is real. But this begs the question: If you can't trust God to protect his own prophets, why would you trust him at all?

How would Mormons answer that? lol. I will post this in the comments under Mormon apologetic videos and see how they answer it. lol

[Cornfed]

Of course they are against communism but the state of Utah is a theocracy. They violate the sacred line between church and state.

There is no such sacred line. European countries generally had a state religion and many American states were founded as explicitly religious colonies.

That was the 1600s. But when the US Constitution was formed in the late 1700s, there was a sacred line between church and state remember? Americans today definitely believe in that sacred line.

The church and state thing applied to the federal government so as not to support the religion of some of the states against others. The current outlook is as a result of the Jews/Satanists attempting to supplant Christianity with their Satanic religion.

[Winston]

Of course they are against communism but the state of Utah is a theocracy. They violate the sacred line between church and state.

There is no such sacred line. European countries generally had a state religion and many American states were founded as explicitly religious colonies.

That was the 1600s. But when the US Constitution was formed in the late 1700s, there was a sacred line between church and state remember? Americans today definitely believe in that sacred line.

The church and state thing applied to the federal government so as not to support the religion of some of the states against others. The current outlook is as a result of the Jews/Satanists attempting to supplant Christianity with their Satanic religion.

What Satanic religion? Every politicians says "God bless America" as though they were Christian or Catholic. And academia and science establishment promote atheism and Darwinian evolution. Where's the Satanic religion except in symbolism in music videos and movies, but those are ambiguous because symbols are not good or bad, they have occult meaning which could be interpreted in many ways. The US government is not religious and doesn't believe in Satan. They may be pushing globalism, but that's not a religion, just centralized control. Hollywood may be very anti-Christian yes, but it does not promote Satanism as a good thing either, it portrays it as evil in horror movies. We are supposedly in a transition to the Age of Aquarius, which may represent technology. So that is supposed to be our new God, technology, hence A.I. and transhumanism.

[Winston]

Wow check out this detailed account of the Mormon Meadows Massacre based on the book by Will Bagley "Blood of the Prophets". It will shock and revolt you and make your blood boil.



Here's a lecture by Will Bagley about his book "Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows" where he talks about why he believes the massacre was ordered by Brigham Young, based on his research as an objective historian. He gives some good reasons based on his research and on documents that were hard to find. Even though he was raised as a Mormon, he's not afraid to tell the truth. It will shock you at how religion can wipe out your reason and make you do anything once you believe in its authority. How could Christian men possibly do this?

[Taco]

It's highly unlikely Brigham Young gave the order to attack people in the Mountain Meadows Massacre since Mormons follow the Judeo-Christian ethic of "Thou shalt not kill". You can be excommunicated for it. However, it is allowed for self defense.

Polygamy was practiced by about 1% of the Mormon Church. Some Mormons continued to practice polygamy after the law ending it was passed and were promptly excommunicated.

Like Joseph Smith, many prophets and apostles in the bible were also killed for their beliefs. it is true that Joseph Smith was a Freemason. However, Freemason's were the ones who killed him. There are different kinds of Freemasons, some are violent and some are not.

The Book of Mormon talks about 2 groups of people (Nephites, Jaredites) that lived in North America 2000 years ago. These people were destroyed due to secret combinations (freemasonry). The Book of Mormon serves as a warning to modern day Gentiles (Americans) of what will happen if they do not repent and serve god.

[Winston]

That doesn't make sense Taco. If Christians don't kill because the Bible says so, then no Christian soldier killed any Muslims during the Crusades either. And none of the witches in the Inquisition died either since "Christiand don't kill". Come on. You should know better than that. Plus in the 1800s we gotta remember that killing people wasn't the big taboo that it is today, in those days it was more common to shoot and kill people. Why are you trying to defend the Mormons Taco? Were you one of them before?

Also didn't you know that Brigham Young preached a doctrine called "Blood Atonement"? It wasn't about Christ's blood atonement. It meant that if you killed a sinner, their blood would pay for their sins and they could go to heaven. Didn't you know about that? The videos and movies above say that the Mormon Blood Atonement doctrine contributed to the massacre. Do you agree? Why or why not?