Why does God have to be Perfect & All Good? Why can't he be both Good & Evil or Imperfect like everything else?

[Winston]

This might be a blasphemous question. But why can't God be imperfect or have an evil or dark side? Why do people need to believe that he is perfect and flawless and all good, all righteous, all just, all loving, etc. just because religion and church says so?

It just doesn't make sense given our imperfect world that is cold and cruel. In a world where evil rules, where 75 percent of the world live in poverty and suffering, where terrible things happen to good people, where animals have to kill and eat other animals to survive, wouldn't it make more sense for God/the Creator/the programmer of our matrix to be evil, sadistic, or revel in chaos? I mean if you can accept that, wouldn't the world make a lot more sense?

Humans have an evil side with harmful destructive qualities. They are imperfect with flaws and negative traits. So why can't God be the same way? The Old Testament describes God as a "jealous God" with regrets and anger. So why do we need to make him out to be perfect and flawless? Why can't he be flawed? Why do people need to believe that he is completely perfect?

When I'm talking about God, I'm not necessarily referring to a traditional God, just to whatever mind or consciousness at a higher level or dimension is running things and created us. It could also refer to some computer programmer outside of our universe or dimension who put us in a sort of holographic matrix or super computer simulation, since our universe does have some of the properties of a computer program, as some experts have pointed out. (Google "Are we living in a computer simulation" to find some experts, books and websites about this) I'm just referring to whoever or whatever is running things.

Why can't this Creator or super consciousness be evil and flawed, or at least have an evil side? Or at least have negative/bad/imperfect qualities? It would make more sense wouldn't it, given this cold, cruel, unjust universe that we live in that makes no sense. Everything has a good side and bad side. It's part of the ying and yang of our universe. So why can't that apply to the Creator too? If the creation reflects the creator, then this would make sense, wouldn't it? A perfect Creator cannot create an imperfect world.

What do you think?

[Winston]

Check out this chapter in a book about Gnosticism. It depicts the Fall of Man in the reverse way that the Bible does, with Lucifer being the liberator and God being the oppressor. This seems to make more sense, since God lied in that story about Adam and Eve being sure to die if they ate off that forbidden tree, while the Serpent told the truth, that they would not die but have their eyes opened, knowing both good and evil. How can that be? lol

http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/the ... vation.htm

It also describes the Bible God as a tyrant and a lower level deity, not the highest one.

[Think Different]

Your assumptions about God are drawn from a Judeo-Christian upbringing, wherein God is perfect, cannot lie, never changes, and is of his essence love.

The God of other religions is not like that. The god of Islam is wrathful and capricious, changing his mind at will. The pantheon of gods in Hinduism is not unlike that of the ancient world, wherein the gods take on the characteristics of human emotions, desires, temptations, failures, etc. That's just a sample.

So, you first need to define what "god" you're referring to and whose worldview you are subscribing to. Otherwise, you are subjectively critiquing a Judeo-Christian concept of God and attacking that, instead of taking a truly neutral/objective/non-biased position (if there is such a thing, which I don't believe there is).

[Winston]

Well I'm referring to the concept of God that most Americans think of, which is the Judeo-Christian concept as well.

This concept makes extreme claims that don't make sense, but people believe it cause they are told it is true, so it must be true, and their fellow Christians do too. So it becomes an agreed upon given fact to them.

[swincor]

You're assuming there is even a God in the first place.

But if you believe in a God who created the earth and universe, then you have to ask, "who created God?" If no one did, then God must have come up with the idea of good and evil himself -- IOW good and evil are a direct result of God's fiat, which means that for God himself, conceptions of good and evil are arbitrary and quite meaningless. Which also means man alone is the final authority of what is good and evil, and is therefore in charge of his own destiny and of that of the universe.

[Think Different]

Well I'm referring to the concept of God that most Americans think of, which is the Judeo-Christian concept as well.

This concept makes extreme claims that don't make sense, but people believe it cause they are told it is true, so it must be true, and their fellow Christians do too. So it becomes an agreed upon given fact to them.

It's not supposed to make sense. The Christian teaching of salvation and the role of God in human life, creation, etc. is illogical, contrary to man's thinking, and is why "thinkers" and "intellectuals" will never get it. The God of Christianity is about the relationship, not about a set of rules, logical theorems, or intellectual assent. If it were, only the intelligent would be saved. Plus, I wouldn't want to believe in a god that I can get my head around 100% or fit inside of box of my own making. That would make me greater than God, and I couldn't put my faith or trust in such a thing. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1).

I also don't agree that people just blindly believe whatever they are told about God. A thinking person will always question and wonder. After all, it's an illogical faith, so it would be odd if people didn't question it. What disturbs me in the US, is the wrapping of the flag, nationalism/jingoism, End-Times navel-gazing around what the mass-culture claims to be "God". God is not an American, God doesn't drive a Chevy, and God doesn't wave an American flag. Unfortunately though, this is what you often get in our politics, the evangelical movement (which has way too much control over our politicians and military), and our public discourse.

[Winston]

You're assuming there is even a God in the first place.

But if you believe in a God who created the earth and universe, then you have to ask, "who created God?" If no one did, then God must have come up with the idea of good and evil himself -- IOW good and evil are a direct result of God's fiat, which means that for God himself, conceptions of good and evil are arbitrary and quite meaningless. Which also means man alone is the final authority of what is good and evil, and is therefore in charge of his own destiny and of that of the universe.

I'm asking these questions of people who do believe in God. They don't reflect my personal beliefs.

God or the Gods could be just a higher level life form on a higher plane, that is subject to karma, death and rebirth as well. Buddha said that even the Gods are not free of karma.

[Winston]

Well I'm referring to the concept of God that most Americans think of, which is the Judeo-Christian concept as well.

This concept makes extreme claims that don't make sense, but people believe it cause they are told it is true, so it must be true, and their fellow Christians do too. So it becomes an agreed upon given fact to them.

It's not supposed to make sense. The Christian teaching of salvation and the role of God in human life, creation, etc. is illogical, contrary to man's thinking, and is why "thinkers" and "intellectuals" will never get it. The God of Christianity is about the relationship, not about a set of rules, logical theorems, or intellectual assent. If it were, only the intelligent would be saved. Plus, I wouldn't want to believe in a god that I can get my head around 100% or fit inside of box of my own making. That would make me greater than God, and I couldn't put my faith or trust in such a thing. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1).

I also don't agree that people just blindly believe whatever they are told about God. A thinking person will always question and wonder. After all, it's an illogical faith, so it would be odd if people didn't question it. What disturbs me in the US, is the wrapping of the flag, nationalism/jingoism, End-Times navel-gazing around what the mass-culture claims to be "God". God is not an American, God doesn't drive a Chevy, and God doesn't wave an American flag. Unfortunately though, this is what you often get in our politics, the evangelical movement (which has way too much control over our politicians and military), and our public discourse.

If belief in Christianity is not logical, then how is a sensible person supposed to believe in Christianity? How is Christianity any different from a scam in your email? You can't believe in something without a sensible valid reason. Right?

Any religion can say "the spirit told me that this religion was true". That is not unique to Christianity. All religions have followers that say that. Christians are unable to give one valid reason why their religion is absolute infallible truth.

Some Christian apologists like Josh McDowell claim that Christianity is a rational faith and one can accept using logic. In his book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict", McDowell claims that because Jesus claimed to be God and said that you had to believe in him to be saved, and he rose from the dead to prove his power, witnessed by his followers, then everything he said must be true. Yet this logic is completely circular and makes a lot of false assumptions that have never been proven. No one knows who wrote the Bible, or who these witnesses were who saw Christ rose from the dead. It's not a historically documented fact. It exists only in the New Testament. The Gospels were written in narrative form, like a story, not from a firsthand perspective. Jesus never wrote anything either, assuming he existed that is.

So you see, it's all holes and assumptions with no proof, which you are supposed to just accept without question.

[lavezzi]

If belief in Christianity is not logical, then how is a sensible person supposed to believe in Christianity? How is Christianity any different from a scam in your email? You can't believe in something without a sensible valid reason. Right?

Any religion can say "the spirit told me that this religion was true". That is not unique to Christianity. All religions have followers that say that. Christians are unable to give one valid reason why their religion is absolute infallible truth.

Some Christian apologists like Josh McDowell claim that Christianity is a rational faith and one can accept using logic. In his book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict", McDowell claims that because Jesus claimed to be God and said that you had to believe in him to be saved, and he rose from the dead to prove his power, witnessed by his followers, then everything he said must be true. Yet this logic is completely circular and makes a lot of false assumptions that have never been proven. No one knows who wrote the Bible, or who these witnesses were who saw Christ rose from the dead. It's not a historically documented fact. It exists only in the New Testament. The Gospels were written in narrative form, like a story, not from a firsthand perspective. Jesus never wrote anything either, assuming he existed that is.

So you see, it's all holes and assumptions with no proof, which you are supposed to just accept without question.

People are religious either because it's been implanted in their brain as logic from birth, "Who created the world, daddy?" "God did, son". Or, because the emptiness of humanity was enough to make them put their faith in a personalized higher power without question. Because you're right, there is no reason to believe from a logical perspective.

However, I will say that many of the moral principles preached in the bible give a good message to put people on a pure path. And some of the predictions made in the book of revelations show good understanding of human nature. But the afterlife part is completely f***ed. I wonder if Jesus preached about there being a heaven and a hell only as to ensure that people would behave piously to benefit mankind. Who knows?

[ssjparris]

God is very pure, pure love, pure light, pure positivity. he is creator source of all, he is all that is. therefore i am God. God gave us free will and he follows the law of non-interference. this is why the planet is evil today. because he will not interfere unless we ask for his help.

the only ones that create evil and perpetuate it is us. we have a negative side. we are the only ones in the universe with a polar opposite. he aint got nothing but pure positiveity in him. he is NOT responsible for the evil on this planet nor is he sending people to hell and doing whatever he wants to people. that part is complete bull shit. hope this helps dude.

[Winston]

God is very pure, pure love, pure light, pure positivity. he is creator source of all, he is all that is. therefore i am God. God gave us free will and he follows the law of non-interference. this is why the planet is evil today. because he will not interfere unless we ask for his help.

the only ones that create evil and perpetuate it is us. we have a negative side. we are the only ones in the universe with a polar opposite. he aint got nothing but pure positiveity in him. he is NOT responsible for the evil on this planet nor is he sending people to hell and doing whatever he wants to people. that part is complete bull shit. hope this helps dude.

You said all that without providing one logical or valid reason or evidence, as though a programmed automaton were saying that through you. What is your basis for saying that God is pure, perfect and good? Just because someone, some book, or some religion TOLD you so? Is that your basis? Can you trace the true source of your beliefs to the root?

[magnum]

The vary problem with this seemingly taunting post, is you more or less are asking for people to prove to you christian god, or by asking think it will disprove it with peoples inabilities to prove him to you.


Fixed question either way.


I'm going to just say, don't base your views on what the christian god is based on "christians" from america, they are worse off then the non-christians of america.


Christian christ, the true god, is pure hate and pure love.


The mistake everyone makes is thinking he's this glowing essence of love and joy, who will give you endless happiness if you just fallow the rules, when in reality, you will experience much misery, incompatibility and personal strain to discipline your self to stay moral and in line with the things he asks of you.

Why do it then? because if you believe he is the true god.......because he asked you to, simple as that.

After you die, you will be in his prescience and held accountable for what you did do, but more importantly what you >DID NOT< do for him and for others.

I wont sit here and try to prove to you the existence of jesus christ on a forum, because your not looking for him, just as you have asked me in a indirect way to prove it, I would ask you to disprove it, but I honestly don't care for another 500k page post of endless debate on try to one up each other on how inarticulate the bible is or how x region predates z religion.

[cubeangel]

Based upon definition #1 word of the flaw the word perfection would have to be defined. How do we tell what is genuinely perfect? What is the criteria and epitome of perfection?

[ph_visitor]

This might be a blasphemous question. But why can't God be evil or have an evil side? Why do people need to believe that he is perfect and flawless and all good, all righteous, all just, all loving, etc. just because religion says so??

It is a matter of logic.

Using the rules set up by monotheistic religion about God:

-All seeing
-All knowing
-All powerful
-Loves us and wants us to be happy

Then it follows that such a God would not be harmful. Unless you were human, and created God, and gave him human personality traits, which is exactly what humans have done.

To quote George Carlin:

"This is not the work you would expect on the resume of a Supreme Being."

Most people cannot grasp that the Buddhists and Hindus have got it correct. Spirituality, but no God. Life after death, but no Man in the Sky.

[DarkMinxMish]

I think God can be spiteful or wrathful I should say.
It seems in the bible he was suppose to exist in a void just himself and the "darkness" which I guess represents evil or the shadows.
Then eventually he got lonely and had a bright idea to create heaven, the earth, and everything else in between.
When I think of God's possible shadow side I think of his attitude towards us.
Like God is suppose to love humanity so right? We're suppose to be the best thing he created exactly in his image, even surpassing the angels who grew jealous about this. So if that's correct why did he massacre a whole planet damn near leaving only moses and his kin.
From what I read from different sources there was more than one earth and he destroyed the last one completely.
When God was satisfied he created another earth with human beings w/o all the mixing of supernatural creatures or angels.

Not only that the Angels themselves in our modern time is all love and light.
In actual traditional religion they were very powerful, inspired awe and fear. They could feel and had minds of their own.
When humans arrive we see a more sinister side of their nature come forth like jealousy and disgust at God's love of an inferior human.
Well some were like this, others liked us, and many were indifferent. The thing is angels had free will so they chose to rebel against God and his decisions. How can such pure things be so hateful if they came directly from him?
Okay so if God knew all of this ahead of time and willingly let the slaughter of his creations come to pass; how could he be without his shadow.
He knew lucifer was going to rebel and cause our downfall. What's the point unless he's just bored....

At the same time I'm not 100% sure of the bible. Much of it has been changed, tampered, or misplaced all together. I think there's far more about God then what's in there. This is just a really interesting subject period. ^-^