Why are some PUA forums so against any form of P2P?

[Archibault]

Hey guys,
I noticed that some "Game" forum seem to have a strong stance against any form P2P. Not only about directly paying for it but rather just simply doing anything like buying women drinks..etc. I notice many of these guys tend to lurk outside of clubs trying to pull since they don't want to pay the entry fee at the most expensive ones. I wonder what motivated these guys to assume that stand. From what I hear many of them come from lower financial means hence they tend to hold a bit of resentment towards those who are better off.

What do you guys think?

[Shemp]

Most PUAs are losers in all of money, social status and natural looks, which is why they focus on "game" and non-natural looks: body-building, clothes, hair transplants, heel lifts, etc. Game and unnatural looks doesn't work too well, which explains their anger: they resent being losers where women are concerned.

P4P is a tricky issue. There is a big difference between (A) using money to get sex from a woman who doesn't find you attractive, versus (B) using money to push yourself to the head of the line of men who she does find attractive. Because most PUAs are losers regarding natural looks, intelligence, social status and other things (besides money) that naturally attract women, they can only engage in type A P4P, and they have no experience with type B, so they assume all P4P is type A. A forum about sex with reciprocated desire is not the place for guys who engage in type A P4P, so I can understand wanting to get rid of these guys from such a forum.

However, PUA forums are mostly NOT about reciprocated desire. All PUAs care about is getting the bang and moving on to the next girl, which is very similar to the mentality of type A P4P, so you would think these groups would be a natural match, the only difference being that type A P4P guys try to pay at little as possible whereas PUAs try to pay zero. PUA obsession with not paying is precisely because they subconsciously realize they are like A P4P guys, meaning fundamentally unattractive to women and unable to create long term reciprocated desire, but their ego can't handle this reality. Not paying proves there was reciprocated desire, so silences their self-doubts temporarily. Mention of P4P awakens self doubs, and causes PUAs go into meltdown mode.

Type B of P4P is basically an evolution of regular dating. Instead of dangling the promise of marrying a rich husband before a poor woman, you simply give the women money or equivalent in benefits (free rent, gifts, etc). Type B P4P only works with big wealth differences between man and woman. If the woman is rich, then money will not push the man to the head of the line of men she finds attractive. Type B P4P is often called sponsoring, sugar daddying, mistress arrangements. If a rich man tries to avoid giving money to a poor woman, and there is reciprocated desire, then there is a big danger he will end up marrying her instead.

There's nothing wrong with either type A of type B P4P, IMO. Most men naturally prefer long term relationships with mutual attraction, implying type B P4P is he is much wealthier than the woman and wants to avoid marriage. If a guy is very unattractive, or he mostly wants one night stands, or he gets off on sex with women who don't find him attractive (rape fantasies), or he has other kinks that are hard to satisfy, then type A P4P is the way to go.

Because PUAs fight an uphill battle to get free sex from women who don't really want them, PUAs do tend to be bettter observer of women's true nature than guys who are fundamentally attractive to women, and who can thus afford to be lazy and believe nonsense. Therefore PUAs can be a good source of ideas, but I would avoid hanging around them too much because their misogyny and resentment towards other men is a poisonous influence.

[jerryrigged]

Most PUAs are losers in all of money, social status and natural looks, which is why they focus on "game" and non-natural looks: body-building, clothes, hair transplants, heel lifts, etc. Game and unnatural looks doesn't work too well, which explains their anger: they resent being losers where women are concerned

....................

All of this is fine but the shoe lifts. Young women in America actually want me who dress nice and work out and take care of their hair. Shoe lifts? You're going to be laughed at if she ever finds out. Just buy a damn pair of boots!!!!!!!! Anyone in shoe lifts needs a check up from the neck up!!!

[Shemp]

Looking your best is fine, but what if a guy is naturally unattractive? We have expression like "lipstick on a pig", "polish a dried turd all you want, it's still a dried turd", "don't judge a book by its cover", etc, precisely to deal with this issue of dressing something up to appear different than reality. It doesn't work on quality women because they see right through the fake facade.

Same situation with women. Imagine a naturally attractive woman with simple straight haircut, ordinary clothes, normal healthy bodyweight versus hideous woman covered with makeup, jewelry, fancy hairdo, and expensive clothes, with fake tits and artificially thin from surgery or pills, etc. Plenty examples of such monsters everywhere. All that fakeness does nothing to make the hideous woman more attractive to quality men, though maybe the illusion does work on junk tier men. Junk tier is what most PUAs are, BTW, and what PUAs call "hot babe" is often a very mediocre girl made to look better with fake ornamentation.

[Archibault]

Most PUAs are losers in all of money, social status and natural looks, which is why they focus on "game" and non-natural looks: body-building, clothes, hair transplants, heel lifts, etc. Game and unnatural looks doesn't work too well, which explains their anger: they resent being losers where women are concerned.

P4P is a tricky issue. There is a big difference between (A) using money to get sex from a woman who doesn't find you attractive, versus (B) using money to push yourself to the head of the line of men who she does find attractive. Because most PUAs are losers regarding natural looks, intelligence, social status and other things (besides money) that naturally attract women, they can only engage in type A P4P, and they have no experience with type B, so they assume all P4P is type A. A forum about sex with reciprocated desire is not the place for guys who engage in type A P4P, so I can understand wanting to get rid of these guys from such a forum.

However, PUA forums are mostly NOT about reciprocated desire. All PUAs care about is getting the bang and moving on to the next girl, which is very similar to the mentality of type A P4P, so you would think these groups would be a natural match, the only difference being that type A P4P guys try to pay at little as possible whereas PUAs try to pay zero. PUA obsession with not paying is precisely because they subconsciously realize they are like A P4P guys, meaning fundamentally unattractive to women and unable to create long term reciprocated desire, but their ego can't handle this reality. Not paying proves there was reciprocated desire, so silences their self-doubts temporarily. Mention of P4P awakens self doubs, and causes PUAs go into meltdown mode.

Type B of P4P is basically an evolution of regular dating. Instead of dangling the promise of marrying a rich husband before a poor woman, you simply give the women money or equivalent in benefits (free rent, gifts, etc). Type B P4P only works with big wealth differences between man and woman. If the woman is rich, then money will not push the man to the head of the line of men she finds attractive. Type B P4P is often called sponsoring, sugar daddying, mistress arrangements. If a rich man tries to avoid giving money to a poor woman, and there is reciprocated desire, then there is a big danger he will end up marrying her instead.

There's nothing wrong with either type A of type B P4P, IMO. Most men naturally prefer long term relationships with mutual attraction, implying type B P4P is he is much wealthier than the woman and wants to avoid marriage. If a guy is very unattractive, or he mostly wants one night stands, or he gets off on sex with women who don't find him attractive (rape fantasies), or he has other kinks that are hard to satisfy, then type A P4P is the way to go.

Because PUAs fight an uphill battle to get free sex from women who don't really want them, PUAs do tend to be bettter observer of women's true nature than guys who are fundamentally attractive to women, and who can thus afford to be lazy and believe nonsense. Therefore PUAs can be a good source of ideas, but I would avoid hanging around them too much because their misogyny and resentment towards other men is a poisonous influence.

Excellent post man. when I read your post the phrase, "the lowest of the low" came to my mind. I wonder do you think there's a lot of projection from PUA's onto others and why it is such an ego thing? Each time I read a post from a PUA blogger. He starts with smart observation about social dynamics but then it descends to being judgmental towards everyone. I remember reading one who said, "Oh, that guy bought a bottle for his table, he's a pathetic loser," or he drove a nice car and took her on a date; he's a loser." It seems that the PUA is constantly reacting to guys on Group 2. There's also this element of the community of bashing other guys, which I also don't like. I wonder where does it come from.

[HouseMD]

Hey guys,
I noticed that some "Game" forum seem to have a strong stance against any form P2P. Not only about directly paying for it but rather just simply doing anything like buying women drinks..etc. I notice many of these guys tend to lurk outside of clubs trying to pull since they don't want to pay the entry fee at the most expensive ones. I wonder what motivated these guys to assume that stand. From what I hear many of them come from lower financial means hence they tend to hold a bit of resentment towards those who are better off.

What do you guys think?

I think they're pathetic lol

[flowerthief00]

Hey guys,
I noticed that some "Game" forum seem to have a strong stance against any form P2P. Not only about directly paying for it but rather just simply doing anything like buying women drinks..etc. I notice many of these guys tend to lurk outside of clubs trying to pull since they don't want to pay the entry fee at the most expensive ones. I wonder what motivated these guys to assume that stand. From what I hear many of them come from lower financial means hence they tend to hold a bit of resentment towards those who are better off.

What do you guys think?

Personally I don't care for PUA nor P2P. I tend to mock them both.

But if you're going to cold approach, lurking outside of clubs does make sense. Not only do you avoid paying an entry fee, outside can often be better than inside. The music isn't oppressively loud, people are relaxed and not dancing, sometimes there are places to sit down and talk with someone next to you.

You have to understand that success rates of cold approach (however we define "success") are piss-poor. Thus you have to approach a lot in order for anything at all to happen. And if that's costing you money each time it can add up fast. Similarly, you wouldn't go to an expensive restaurant on a first date knowing that most first dates don't lead to a second date. Bad rates of return on investment lead to pressure to keep initial expenditure as low as possible.

As for buying women drinks, only simps do that.

[Jonny Law]

NEWSFLASH This just in- Female sex workers (FSWs) are at high risk of sexually transmitted infections (STIs). This makes many of them unfertile and unfaithful

[brownwarrior2021]

Forget these PUA Dating Roaches, don't even let Non-PUA Mofos try to control you. This is how I see if you are able to get free p***y easily go for it, BUT if you ain't that ain't nothing wrong with spending some money punani. Just don't go crazy like that TFLer Elliot or Alex from Toronto. Better go to hoe than go on psychotic shooting spree. Do you know why Old dudes in city like Toronto seem more happier, because they spend their retirement pension on escorts, unlike young dudes who waste their entire day and time along with money to figure out how to get laid. No wonder the west is crashing.