Why do you guys think that many people don't learn other languages?

[Archibault]

Hey guys,

Almost trilingual(I still need to polish my French skills), I wonder why other people seem to have no interest in learning others languages. Also, feel free to share your experiences when knowing the local language and how you saw other ex-pats or nomads and why they chose or did not choose to learn a second or third language.

[Voyager1]

Some people have that gift. It's something in the brain.

Check out this guy. He has the gift of leaning languages.

[Gali]

Because there are more important things in life

[MrMan]

Hey guys,

Almost trilingual(I still need to polish my French skills), I wonder why other people seem to have no interest in learning others languages. Also, feel free to share your experiences when knowing the local language and how you saw other ex-pats or nomads and why they chose or did not choose to learn a second or third language.

I studied 7 or 8 languages, depending on how you count them, in college. Some of them were dead languages. I did not practice Spanish or Arabic and lost them. Our Arabic class moved slow, and it was Classical Arabic, again, kind of like a dead language, but not quite. I could probably pick up some Spanish if I studied and were around it long enough. If Covid-19 blows over, maybe I can set up a trip to Europe for work and get a chance for a week or two of immersion into the language.

I do speak Indonesian. I lived there for much of my adult life. Since I speak Indonesian, I can sort of get by in Malaysian. It's okay for most every day stuff, but it can be hard for Indonesians and Malaysians to communicate. When I first got to Jakarta, I went out with a group of people from church after an English language serve. There was a young women visiting from Malaysia. She said she and others from her company had been negotiating with a group from an Indonesian company and they could not agree on the terms of the agreement. Someone suggested they speak English, so they did. It turns out, they actually agreed with each other on what they wanted. Words in Malaysian do not mean the same thing they do in Indonesia, and the source of confusion was trying to communicate using those languages. They wanted the same things.

Indonesians may use the same words as Malaysians to use the same thing. 'Tolak' means 'reject' in Indonesia, and 'dorong' means push. But in Malaysian 'tolak' means push. It is written on door handles. Indonesians (and probably Malaysians) have this concept that certain sicknesses are called by 'masuk angin' (enter wind.) If you get a cold or gas they might say the wind got in you. My sister-in-law said she got masuk angin because she slept under a fan. It sounds funny to me. There is an Indonesian product called 'Tolak Angin'-- it's a minty flavored syrup with herbs in it that tastes like a powerful, flavorful cough drop. I was talking to a guy on an airplane in Malaysia. He said when 'Tolak Angin'-- which means 'push wind' in Malaysia was introduced in his country when he was in middle school, it was the source of a great many jokes.

In Malaysia on a visa run, in a taxi on the way from the hotel from the airport, I decided to try my Indonesian out on the driver. We were talking about their educational system and languages used in different schools. He said that in the previous generation, Indians and Chinese were not allowed to speak Malaysian. That seemed Draconian, until I realized that 'boleh' means 'able to' in Malaysian, and in Indonesian it means 'able to.' He was saying Indians and Chinese of that generation did not know how to speak Malaysian since they did not learn it in school.

I liked the idea of learning languages and traveling when I was young.

[MrMan]

Hey guys,

Almost trilingual(I still need to polish my French skills), I wonder why other people seem to have no interest in learning others languages. Also, feel free to share your experiences when knowing the local language and how you saw other ex-pats or nomads and why they chose or did not choose to learn a second or third language.

I studied 7 or 8 languages, depending on how you count them, in college. Some of them were dead languages. I did not practice Spanish or Arabic and lost them. Our Arabic class moved slow, and it was Classical Arabic, again, kind of like a dead language, but not quite. I could probably pick up some Spanish if I studied and were around it long enough. If Covid-19 blows over, maybe I can set up a trip to Europe for work and get a chance for a week or two of immersion into the language.

I do speak Indonesian. I lived there for much of my adult life. Since I speak Indonesian, I can sort of get by in Malaysian. It's okay for most every day stuff, but it can be hard for Indonesians and Malaysians to communicate. When I first got to Jakarta, I went out with a group of people from church after an English language serve. There was a young women visiting from Malaysia. She said she and others from her company had been negotiating with a group from an Indonesian company and they could not agree on the terms of the agreement. Someone suggested they speak English, so they did. It turns out, they actually agreed with each other on what they wanted. Words in Malaysian do not mean the same thing they do in Indonesia, and the source of confusion was trying to communicate using those languages. They wanted the same things.

Indonesians may use the same words as Malaysians to use the same thing. 'Tolak' means 'reject' in Indonesia, and 'dorong' means push. But in Malaysian 'tolak' means push. It is written on door handles. Indonesians (and probably Malaysians) have this concept that certain sicknesses are called by 'masuk angin' (enter wind.) If you get a cold or gas they might say the wind got in you. My sister-in-law said she got masuk angin because she slept under a fan. It sounds funny to me. There is an Indonesian product called 'Tolak Angin'-- it's a minty flavored syrup with herbs in it that tastes like a powerful, flavorful cough drop. I was talking to a guy on an airplane in Malaysia. He said when 'Tolak Angin'-- which means 'push wind' in Malaysia was introduced in his country when he was in middle school, it was the source of a great many jokes.

In Malaysia on a visa run, in a taxi on the way from the hotel from the airport, I decided to try my Indonesian out on the driver. We were talking about their educational system and languages used in different schools. He said that in the previous generation, Indians and Chinese were not allowed to speak Malaysian. That seemed Draconian, until I realized that 'boleh' means 'able to' in Malaysian, and in Indonesian it means 'able to.' He was saying Indians and Chinese of that generation did not know how to speak Malaysian since they did not learn it in school.

I liked the idea of learning languages and traveling when I was young.

[MrMan]

Americans don't really need to learn foreign languages to function in the US, for the most part. There are some spots, like parts of Miami, where you might need to speak Spanish to get directions, but most of the country is not like that.

Our news is US focused. TV news shows a few bits and pieces of foreign news, usually if there is a terrorist attack or something major like that. We watch news about our own country. We watch our own movies. Hollywood churns them out. Most people don't want to mess with subtitles. Other countries watch our movies with dubbing or subtitles.

So most people in the US grow up without much motivation to learn a language. And a lot of people in the US would never want to live abroad. They think the US is the greatest country in the world. I think that attitude is waning over time, as China is rising and there seems to be a blindness and dulling of the senses that has come upon many of our national leaders.

[MrMan]

I wonder if I would get a lot of hits on YouTube if I went around Indonesian filming people telling me how well I could speak Indonesian and adding subtitles.

I speak Indonesian well for an expat, i suppose. But other expats who actually studied formally it use 'men' and stuff like that in front of the verbs instead of speaking street Indonesian like me.

[Yohan]

... I wonder why other people seem to have no interest in learning others languages. Also, feel free to share your experiences when knowing the local language and how you saw other ex-pats or nomads and why they chose or did not choose to learn a second or third language.

This is a 50/50 question. There are indeed many people who can communicate in more than their native language, while others are totally unwilling even to try.

I found people from India as very talented, some are speaking English like a native, using Hindi for local business and their own Indian language at home. Also Chinese, grown up in Malaysia or HongKong are often fluent in their own Chinese dialect, can speak standard Chinese and very good English.

On the other side, Japanese and Koreans are not known to be good in foreign languages... and many here in Japan are just interested in the world next to their own place and hardly have any contact with foreigners.

Filipinos are fairly open to foreign languages, but many of them are not really educated to use them, they make many grammatical mistakes, but have good knowledge of a basic vocabulary.

------------------------------------

About myself, so far I spent most time of my life outside of Europe - living in Japan since 40 years, I could not survive without Japanese - what job could I do without knowing the local language? I speak also English and some French, and my native language is German, I have some knowledge about Malay and Korean....

If you ask me, it depends if you need a foreign language or not. It does not make sense to study a foreign language you will never use in your life.

[Yohan]

I wonder if I would get a lot of hits on YouTube if I went around Indonesian filming people telling me how well I could speak Indonesian and adding subtitles.

Why not? Try it!

Don't expect however a lot of hits, not so many people are interested into Indonesian/Malay/Tagalog languages - rather limited...

Subtitles are very common here in Japan and in China, as the spoken language can easily cause misunderstandings - or in China cannot be understood at all, Chinese dialects are often more like an entire new language and not really a dialect. - It's not only about translation of foreign movies from their original language, but there are also plenty of subtitles in Japanese during most local Japanese TV news broadcastings, song shows, always about any broadcasting related to Japanese history, Buddhist religion etc. Plenty of words you cannot really understand if you don't know how they are in their written form.

[MrMan]

I wonder if I would get a lot of hits on YouTube if I went around Indonesian filming people telling me how well I could speak Indonesian and adding subtitles.

Why not? Try it!

Don't expect however a lot of hits, not so many people are interested into Indonesian/Malay/Tagalog languages - rather limited...

Subtitles are very common here in Japan and in China, as the spoken language can easily cause misunderstandings - or in China cannot be understood at all, Chinese dialects are often more like an entire new language and not really a dialect. - It's not only about translation of foreign movies from their original language, but there are also plenty of subtitles in Japanese during most local Japanese TV news broadcastings, song shows, always about any broadcasting related to Japanese history, Buddhist religion etc. Plenty of words you cannot really understand if you don't know how they are in their written form.

Indonesia has a PR problem in the US. It is the world's fourth most populated country, larger than Japan, but most Americans do not know where it is on the map. I got an A in high school geography, but I wasn't sure where it was on the map either when I first saw a job advertised there. Part of the problem is that that it is hard to recognize because the name is spelled partly over the water and it is hard to see the borders. Some Americans might be more familiar from history class if you tell them 'Where the Dutch East Indies used to be.' I had a cousin who, if I saw him when I came back to the US, would ask me "How's Indo-China?" I think he was being sincere.


I think the reason is the US has little cultural contact with Indonesia. We haven't fought a war with or in their country like we did with Japan, Korea, Vietnam. We don't have a body of British literature about Indonesia to read like we do with India. China is the biggest Asian country so it is famous. Indonesia is just some country people have vaguely heard of.

So, yeah, speaking Chinese or Japanese would probably get more hits.

I've been in that guys situation, except I'm not trying to get involved with other people at restaurants to soak up the praises about how well I speak the language and making a video about it.

[El_Caudillo]

Another thing @MrMan, in Australia and NZ, is that everybody has heard of Bali -- and has an approximate idea of where it is -- but they don't always associate that island with the larger country of "Indonesia". They know Bali is Hindu, a religion that your average Westerner digs although doesn't usually know anything about.

Other places in Indonesia used to be more popular on the Southeast Asian backpacker trail. Cutting the tourist visa down to 30 days put people off and 9/11 didn't help either. Bali bounced back despite 9/11 and the subsequent bombings in Kuta but when I was in Sumatra in 2013 there was significant tourist infrastructure but hardly any tourists. The reasons locals gave me for this are the ones I above and the 2004 Tsunami. I guess Sumatra is too Muslim for a lot of people...not a lot of partying to be had. Although there is only one place in Indonesia I didn't find any beer for sale and that was Ternate in North Maluku...I didn't look very hard though.

Travel outside Bali can be quite challenging (even around Bali it can be slow) -- the infrastructure is pretty awful -- there are rewards to be had, but other places are easier. Bali is pretty much spoiled, but last time I was there I went to the small city of Klungkung and was impressed that it didn't feel like a tourist trap at all.

[WorldTraveler]

They aren't good at languages and don't want to put in the work. Same as playing a musical instrument.

[MrMan]

Other places in Indonesia used to be more popular on the Southeast Asian backpacker trail. Cutting the tourist visa down to 30 days put people off and 9/11 didn't help either. Bali bounced back despite 9/11 and the subsequent bombings in Kuta but when I was in Sumatra in 2013 there was significant tourist infrastructure but hardly any tourists. The reasons locals gave me for this are the ones I above and the 2004 Tsunami. I guess Sumatra is too Muslim for a lot of people...not a lot of partying to be had. Although there is only one place in Indonesia I didn't find any beer for sale and that was Ternate in North Maluku...I didn't look very hard though.

What parts of Sumatra were set up for tourism? I have been to Lake Tobah, most recently around 2017 or so. I think that is a minority Muslim area. I'm guessing maybe 30% if it is representative of Bataks in general. There is a lot of cool stuff to see. The lake is nice. I like those giant goldfish. I read they actually are carp, but the meat isn't gray and nasty. The meat is white, fluffy, and tasty.

They are building an international airport there to attract tourism, as per the president's plan. But the big thing lacking for tourism seems to be decent, clean western style sit-down toilets in Parapat. I think we could one place which wasn't that nice. This was rough on my kids. We also waited to get on a sardine-style boat to get to the island of Samosir, an island on an island. These boats weren't the same as the ones we'd ridden previously. So we asked around and got our driver to take us to the more expensive, but still cheap, comfortable open tourist boat where you could see the water from the deck.

20 years ago, it was hard to find anything but local foods in Parapat, the largest city around there. KJC set up part of the year, and they served chicken and rice. One of the Chinese places was okay. I don't mind occasional Batak food, depending on what it is, but that gets boring fast. I'd imagine there is plenty of Padang and Javanese food, too. But international tourists would probably want some other varieties. Some westerners probably want western food. I haven't spent much time in hotel restaurants around there, though a cook in one of them made a hamburger for me when I was young and tired of Batak food. Maybe hotels there have western food options. I hear there is a plan to build five-star hotels to attract international tourism. COVID-19 probably through a monkey wrench into that plan. I can imagine it could be a quick easy vacation spot for Singaporeans. Maybe Malaysians, too, if there are enough halal food optoins.

We got to Tomok, and at the top of the stairs to get into the market/tourist area, there was a guy in an official looking vest, i think, collecting a small amount of money for admission. After I gave him about $.80 or a dollar worth of rupiah, or whatever, to get it, I noticed others were ignoring him. After I got up the stairs and got some perspective, i could see that he was just a beggar/con man, begging for money in a way that looked like he was getting money for admission.

The actual lake there is really nice. It is incredibly deep. The water is fresh. I've been to a little village on the island there where, about 20 years ago or so at least, they'd go right to the lake and get water to boil to drink. I'd be a bit uncomfortable with that idea because they have motorboats that can leak oil. They ought to require electric engines and keep that place really clean. It is a nice place to visit in Indonesia, kind of cool at night, but not nearly as it gets at night higher up in the mountains. But the last time I went up, nights were much less chili.

I have been to parts of Lampung--- Tangungkarang and Bakahoeni, Pekanbaru, Palembang, Padang, and Medan. None of the places really seemed that great for international tourism. Padang had a nice beach that was supposed to be the location of the legend of Maling Kundang, the sea captain merchant who is said to have turned to stone when he pretended to not recognize his poor mother years later, a well-known fable in Indonesia. It would have been a nice beach if there weren't trash all over the beach. If they'd clean that up and be strict on people in the area who trash the coast, that would be a good tourist location. The vendors there told me the hill up there was 'tanah adat'-- traditionally owned property, not officially registered, which was crazy to me. If land were registered, hotels, etc. could be build to give people jobs in that area. Maybe people who live there prefer to live on an undeveloped beach with trash, but since when would that stop the Indonesian government?

[El_Caudillo]

@MrMan I was talking about West Sumatra. The Minangkabau country. I flew into Padang, which didn't impress me. That's the usual way with cities in Indonesia. This was 2013 my first time out of Jakarta or Bali. Up in the mountain town of Bukittingi, there were a lot of hotels and a few guides but not many tourists. Same thing down at lake Minanjau. A pleasant lake but you couldn't swim in it and there was only nasi padang to eat. I stayed at a supercheap hutt on the lake's edge. The owner said Westerners used to come there and party, but not anymore.

The architecture in that part of the world was interesting - the houses have those curved gable roofs. I climbed Marapi too (not Merapi), there was one there foreigner up there when I got to the top...but that can happen in Java too on the less touristy peaks. the Minangkabau country is scenic and I enjoyed just wandering around and taking bemos. I heard the closeby Mentawi islands attract surfers but the islands were wrecked by the Tsunami.

I've been to Lake Toba and agree it's a wonderful spot. I didn't like the drive from Medan much though, horrible road, crazy driver. An airport there would suit me. I don't think it'll get overrun by tourists any time soon. The hotel I stayed at was cheap and had a range of booze and western food. There are cafes catering tourists on the lake if that's your thing. But nothing like Bali, which is just complete overkill. I dunno if I'd go back to Sumatra...I definitely don't think my girlfriend would like it. I'd like to try out Kalimantan maybe...or Ambon -- probably my favourite trip was Ternate and Tidore -- still a lot of colonial history from Portuguese and Dutch times and some of the people sort of look like a cross between Javanese and Papuans. But after that I flew to Manado in North Sulawesi and it was average. In Indonesia, you need to make an effort to get out of those regional cities to see something interesting.

[flowerthief00]

Because learning a foreign language takes a ****ing immense amount of effort, with arguably little payoff until you reach a certain point of fluency if you ever do. I spent the last year and a half learning Vietnamese with little to show for it. Didn't expect it to be harder than Japanese but it totally is (the spoken language, not the written language). And less useful. If I had to do it all over again I'm not sure I would. Japanese on the other hand was, for me, absolutely worth the effort to acquire, both spoken and written. So choose your language carefully.

Best time to acquire languages is when you're a little kid. Your brain when you're young is geared for acquiring languages. When you're older it's possible but it ain't easy.