I don't want children, don't judge me

[marklambo]

What good is a productive man if he wants no kids so he can be a slave to a wife or the child support payment system?

I suggest you read The Manipulated Man by Ester Vilar who describes how men are unwittingly conditioned to be slaves for women and their children.

This book will thoroughly answer the question that you posed.

Good tip Contrarian. I agree that no man should be a slave to the system if he chooses not to. It's really sad though that sometimes men do get trapped in the system with no way out. This is why men should be very careful in the choices they make in life.

[marklambo]

I want children and I plan to have them with a female in Shanghai when I become financially stable. Actually no not exactly. I will have fun with her for a few years before having kids because she will probably just give the kid all the attention while I become sidelined.

Yea, if you want all the attention, that all goes out the window once the woman has a child. You automatically will become in 2nd position. If it's something you know you can deal with, by all means go for it but just be prepared.

[Teal Lantern]

There's always abortion but the risk is that the woman you got pregnant may not always approve of it. For someone that doesn't want kids, they obviously must take all precautions and sometimes it doesn't always work out and that's life. There's a risk in everything we do.

Well, yeah. I didn't mention abortion as you (the man) have no control over it.
She'll tell you she's on the pill, the patch, tubes tied, doesn't want kids, whatever, then, once she's seeded, it's a whole other song.
As Ice Cube says - Don't Trust 'Em.

You have to take a path she can't lie her way around.
Be careful down there in Sin City ... or any other city.

[marklambo]

There's always abortion but the risk is that the woman you got pregnant may not always approve of it. For someone that doesn't want kids, they obviously must take all precautions and sometimes it doesn't always work out and that's life. There's a risk in everything we do.

Well, yeah. I didn't mention abortion as you (the man) have no control over it.
She'll tell you she's on the pill, the patch, tubes tied, doesn't want kids, whatever, then, once she's seeded, it's a whole other song.
As Ice Cube says - Don't Trust 'Em.

You have to take a path she can't lie her way around.
Be careful down there in Sin City ... or any other city.

I remember over 12 years ago, there was this girl I was banging and she would always get pissed off at me for pulling out. She was on the pill and always wanted me to blow a load inside her but I didn't trust her. Maybe she had intentions of wanting to have a child with me or just wanted to feel the load inside her, who knows. But either way I didn't want to take any chances with that. The last thing I wanted was a knock on my door 2 years later about a kid I never knew about.

Oh believe me, I'm real careful out here in sin city lol.

[HouseMD]

Then don't have children.

Thanks for reminding us like so many outside of the mainstream culture feel like they have to announce they don't like this or that.

They also don't take your freedom or tie you down, that's nonsense with nothing specific to backup such a claim.

That's is about all I will say about it. I don't go around announcing I want to have children.

This is what HA has become a complain zone

If you don't like the topic, don't respond. You sound like the one who's complaining. HA is a forum for people to discuss whatever they want. You may not like what certain people talk about and that's ok but don't complain about it. When I see topics I don't like or don't feel like saying anything in them, I ignore them, simple as that. I don't come in and complain about what or why they posted what they did, it's immature. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts, whether you like it or not. Get over it dude.

How is it that children don't tie you down? Children are a huge responsibility. If you decide you want to get away and travel, you can't just do it in a snap of a finger. If you decide you want to move to another state because of a new opportunity, it's not that easy to do when you have a child. What happens if someone divorces and children are involved and one parent wanted to move out of state? Now it's much harder because a child is involved. There are many reasons why children will hold you down, it's a fact and everyone knows it.

Children are a sacrifice. Some people don't mind being tied down to a child and are happy. But some people aren't.

my only beef with this is that you stated, "if you don't like a topic, don't respond". That sort of attitude results in intellectual inbreeding and bad ideas perpetuating themselves. Plus how are any of us supposed to learn anything if we do nothing but preach to the choir.

Having children is a personal decision. I don't feel there is a right and a wrong to it. If you don't feel you are cut out for the parenting gig, that's fine. You would probably be unhappy as a father and make your child unhappy by proxy, as you would be making your life about something you never desired. These days, people not having kids in the West is a very common thing.

I used to be very anti kids, but now I've got to thinking, what good is everything I have built in this life if it ends with me? I could give my child every advantage I never had. And if I had a traditional wife, we could raise them properly, perhaps even doing so in another country. Still, I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Children are the biggest of big deals. Don't make one unless your heart is all for it, because they are one hell of an investment and you cant take them back.

[Winston]

http://blog.happierabroad.com/2012/02/5 ... ldren.html

5 Reasons Not To Have Children - Consequences To Consider

Here are the facts and consequences of having children that you need to know before you have them. You need to look at the reality here, rather than the myths, expectations or traditions you were fed about children being "wonderful blessings that you will make your life complete". The media brainwashes people by depicting the notion that "getting pregnant = good news". But it is not always good news, when you consider the reality of the following:

1. Children are detrimental to your health and peace of mind, which are the most important things in life. They give you lots of constant worry and stress, which is bad for your health. And as we all know, health is priceless and the most important thing in life. Peace of mind is the next most important thing in life. But children are not good for either one. Also, if you have a quick temper, children will often aggravate it and cause you to "blow your fuse", often over little things, which can become an emotional hell - all for nothing too, because you will get NOTHING in return for putting up with this trouble and disruption to your peace of mind.

2. Children disturb your peace and quiet, as well as sleep. If you like peace and quiet, then children will become your worst nightmare. They will bring constant noise, disturbance, tension, problems and conflict, especially if you have two or three of them fighting and arguing. If you like having a good night's sleep, you might want to consider that you will be awoken and disturbed many times by your baby crying in the middle of the night. These are just words, but once you experience this, you will realize the gravity of it all. It is more than you can imagine or conceptualize, and more than words can describe.

3. Children take away your freedom, enslave you, tie you down, and transform your life into one of servitude. They destroy and impair your personal freedom for 20+ years. You will be obligated to give up your life and freedom to become enslaved in servitude to the needs of a "spoiled brat". And if you hate or regret it, then tough luck, because once you start, there is no quitting or turning back. Thus, it could turn out to be the worst thing that's ever happened to you! As a parent, you will be "tied down" while you work hard everyday to provide money for a good home for them. Your life will no longer be your own, but indebted into servitude for their welfare. It is also hard and unpleasant to travel when you have kids, whether you bring them along or not. (Think of the Chevy Chase "Vacation" movies where family trips are anything but fun) So if you really love to travel, you might want to consider that.

Even though you are in a position of authority in relation to your children, still, your life role and function are essentially transformed into that of a SERVANT once you have kids. As they say, "Once you become a parent, your life is no longer your own." You exist primarily to "serve" the needs of your children and their best interests, not your own. Your life becomes one of servitude, which becomes your duty, according to the ethics of society. Therefore, if you don't like being a slave or servant, then you might want to reconsider having kids. Of course, you can always rebel against your duty and obligation to become a servant, as many men have, but in doing so, you will undoubtedly incur the condemnation of others, so you will have to be discreet about it.

4. Children are a big burden and drain on your resources - in terms of finances, time, energy and emotions. You will not be reimbursed or reap any tangible rewards or benefits from your sacrifice - except for intangible emotional ones. So from a business standpoint, having children is the worst business decision you could ever make, as the relationship is a completely one-sided affair, with them receiving all the benefits while you get sucked up dry. The money you spend raising them from birth to adulthood, would be better spent investing in a business, real estate properties, savings, or mutual fund portfolios so that you can be free to travel the world and live to your heart's desire.

5. Children destroy the romance between you and your partner. When you and your partner have kids, the focus then becomes on the kid rather than on the two of you. Both of you begin to live for the child rather than for each other, in effect becoming "servants" to the child. It's a real romance killer for sure. How can there be any romance when the kid keeps hogging all the attention and complaining about every little thing as though he/she were royalty and you his/her unpaid servant?! Sheesh, why should I give all my attention to my kid rather than to my lover? For what? A kid isn't exactly that interesting you know. Geez. Society is also stupid and wrong to make children out to be some special group that is more precious and important than adults. That's stupid. At what age does one stop becoming precious and special? That's so dumb. Sheesh.

Anyhow, I don't know about you, but I would never exchange the dynamic passion and pleasure of romantic love for the "joy of child rearing". There's no comparison at all. I shouldn't have to explain why. The latter simply does not fill any need or longing of mine, while the former does. So it makes no sense to exchange romance for parental love. That's one of the worst exchanges imaginable, and it's no fun at all.

Overall, having children is NOT a logical decision - as it involves huge sacrifices in time, money, energy, life, freedom, etc. for little or no return. No one would do that rationally. Now I can understand putting up with all that if only truly loves and needs to have their own children. However, even then, they often turn out to be more than you bargained for. But the point is, if you do NOT need children in your life, then there is NO reason to have them and put up with all the above, just because others are having them or society tells you to, or you feel that it is a "duty" to have them. If you fall for such a trap, of doing something that's not right for you just because society/other people say you should, then you could end up making the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life!

Moreover, even if you love children, you are still taking a big risk by having them, because:

1. You have no control over what kind of personality your child will have. He or she may have a personality that may not get along with your, or may be incompatible with you.
2. There is no guarantee that the child won't be born with chronic health problems or complications, which would become a big burden and worry on you.

So in effect, you are risking a lot of trouble simply because society and others say so.

Take a look at all these hundreds of mothers railing about motherhood being the biggest mistake of their lives, resulting in neverending suffering:

http://www.justrage.com/I_Hate/i-hate-b ... e-a-bitch/

[smallcheese]

If a man chooses to have or not have children, that is his personal choice. No need to judge anyone who makes a personal choice.

However, if you do have children but you fail to take full responsibility for the life that you bring into this world, then I will judge you. Most people on this board will probably not say anything to you but I will because you claim to be a seeker of truth. Winston, IMHO you are a hypocrite. You have no credibility on this subject. If you truly didn't want children, why did you father a child? Why didn't you have a vasectomy, which would have been the best thing to do if you did not want to have children?

Who are you to advocate that men should not have children? Why should anyone listen to you when you have your own son that you've left behind in the care of his mother. From what I understand, you provide financial support but that's it. You might visit once in a while, give gifts, take them to dinner, etc. but after awhile you leave again. Abdicating your responsibilities as a father to your son, except for the financial one. While you travel the world being happier abroad, you've left your son to be raised by his mother, indoctrinating and brainwashing him to her values.

Boys who are raised mostly by their mother usually grow up to be screwed up. At a minimum, they become another mangina in the world, endlessly white knighting women and putting them on a pedestal. Your son is already showing signs of being brainwashed. In another thread he calls you a playboy when he sees your picture. How much will he resent you or hate you after he grows up?

I have no respect for anyone who fails to take full responsibility for a life that they brought into this world. Your child didn't ask to be brought into this world. A man always has a choice and a real man takes full, not partial responsibility for the consequences of the choices that he makes. At least you're not as bad as many Filipino men, who father children and give absolutely no support to the children they bring into the world. At least you provide financial support.

I'm quite sure that you will relentlessly attack me for expressing this opinion and rationalize the choices that you've made. And your rationalization will go on and on and on and on..... But you can't change the truth.

Instead of calling your web site HappierAbroad, maybe you should change it to: SelfishlyHappierAbroad

[Contrarian Expatriate]

If a man chooses to have or not have children, that is his personal choice. No need to judge anyone who makes a personal choice.

However, if you do have children but you fail to take full responsibility for the life that you bring into this world, then I will judge you. Most people on this board will probably not say anything to you but I will because you claim to be a seeker of truth. Winston, IMHO you are a hypocrite. You have no credibility on this subject. If you truly didn't want children, why did you father a child? Why didn't you have a vasectomy, which would have been the best thing to do if you did not want to have children?

Who are you to advocate that men should not have children? Why should anyone listen to you when you have your own son that you've left behind in the care of his mother. From what I understand, you provide financial support but that's it. You might visit once in a while, give gifts, take them to dinner, etc. but after awhile you leave again. Abdicating your responsibilities as a father to your son, except for the financial one. While you travel the world being happier abroad, you've left your son to be raised by his mother, indoctrinating and brainwashing him to her values.

Boys who are raised mostly by their mother usually grow up to be screwed up. At a minimum, they become another mangina in the world, endlessly white knighting women and putting them on a pedestal. Your son is already showing signs of being brainwashed. In another thread he calls you a playboy when he sees your picture. How much will he resent you or hate you after he grows up?

I have no respect for anyone who fails to take full responsibility for a life that they brought into this world. Your child didn't ask to be brought into this world. A man always has a choice and a real man takes full, not partial responsibility for the consequences of the choices that he makes. At least you're not as bad as many Filipino men, who father children and give absolutely no support to the children they bring into the world. At least you provide financial support.

I'm quite sure that you will relentlessly attack me for expressing this opinion and rationalize the choices that you've made. And your rationalization will go on and on and on and on..... But you can't change the truth.

Instead of calling your web site HappierAbroad, maybe you should change it to: SelfishlyHappierAbroad

I know you speak from a well-intentioned place, but you are so off the mark that I need to put you in check.

Let's dispossess you of some of you misconceptions. Men have NO LEGAL CHOICE and NO LEGAL REPRODUCTIVE rights regarding whether or not a woman has his children or not. Just because a man has a sexual relationship with a woman does not mean that he wants kids. If a woman ends up pregnant unintentionally, the man has no say in the matter.

Moreover, if the woman decides to have the child against the man's wishes, he will be liable for child support for 18 to 22 years depending on whether or not they go to college (most states follow this model.)

So cut the crap about men having choice about children because they don't. I'm not going to even get into the instances about women impregnating themselves with the contents of spent condoms just to get the legal and financial hooks into the man.

Men should have the right to walk away if the women have the children against the men's wishes!

[Hero]

I also don't want kids, and never have wanted kids, and never will want kids, for reasons that have already been well-explained.

This is why, if I do get married, I'll choose a hot milf who already has kids who are grown or almost grown. Yes, I know I could get myself a woman in her 20's but I'd pay a steep price for that when she gets baby rabies.

I can't believe the pretentious pricks who tell me that they feel sorry for me because I don't want kids.

[marklambo]

I'm not going to even get into the instances about women impregnating themselves with the contents of spent condoms just to get the legal and financial hooks into the man.

Men should have the right to walk away if the women have the children against the men's wishes!

I'm sure you are referring to stories such as this one:
http://www.lasisblog.com/2011/02/26/man ... d-support/

That woman saved the sperm from giving the guy oral sex so she can impregnate herself and collect money.

There really is no such thing as "safe sex" anymore with women. Men must be careful in all different angles now.

It is so unfortunate that a guy who does not plan to have kids and has done what he can to prevent it, still risks having an unwanted child.

[marklambo]

I can't believe the pretentious pricks who tell me that they feel sorry for me because I don't want kids.

The reality is that they are probably just feeling sorry for themselves and envy your freedom.

[Hero]

I can't believe the pretentious pricks who tell me that they feel sorry for me because I don't want kids.

The reality is that they are probably just feeling sorry for themselves and envy your freedom.

Yeah, just like the guys who tell me it's creepy if a guy my age dates a 20-year-old woman

[Rock]

There's a saying in America that being a parent is "the toughest job you'll ever love". But that's just a cliche designed to keep you positive. In truth, it's more accurate to say that it's "the toughest job you'll ever hate".

America also has a false definition of freedom. According to the media and government, you are all "free" as long as the government does not officially declare itself to be a communist dictatorship. Conspiracy theorists also have a false definition of freedom. According to them, you can only be "free" if the NWO and Illuminati are defeated.

But these two groups falsely imply that the government has a hand in your everyday life and freedom. This is not true. In reality, as long as you don't break laws, run red lights or speed on the road, the cops will not bother with you. And unless you are a huge white collar criminal, the Feds and FBI will not consider you even worth of their time to deal with. I've never had any trouble from cops or Feds so there is no basis for me to live in constant fear of them as if they have control over my whole life. I don't know where this delusion comes from, but it's false and illogical.

In reality, your JOB, CHILDREN, SPOUSE and BILLS you have to pay, have A LOT MORE to do with your freedom than the government does. Of these, children are the biggest factor, because you can quit the rest if you don't like them, but you can't quit children if you have them. Thus, they are the BIGGEST factor in taking away your freedom, far bigger than any government factor. So the US media and the conspiracy theorists are definitely WRONG in their false definition of freedom and it's odd how they can't see the obvious.

But Winston, some guys arrange things, as you pretty much have, so that all they have to do is send some subsistence money every month and only visit when they feel like. Look at you. Angelo is not the reason you don't travel to China or Thailand but instead spend most of your time in Taiwan or USA, the 2 countries you ironically hate the most.

I met a guy in Santo Domingo (Dominican American) who has like 6 kids in the States. Yet he parties and womanizes to his hearts content. Whenever he wants, he can call up one of his kids or go to see them. But he makes very little money and doesn't even really support any of them, their mothers do.

What you say in general is true for a lot of people. But if you find a girl who will allow you to impregnate her and be done with it yet retain visitation privileges, you can kinda have your cake and eat it too. This is especially not hard to do in a poor country and/or one where your genes will offer a brighter future to the kid. And $250 a month is not so much and for some guys, it's chump change.

[HouseMD]

If a man chooses to have or not have children, that is his personal choice. No need to judge anyone who makes a personal choice.

However, if you do have children but you fail to take full responsibility for the life that you bring into this world, then I will judge you. Most people on this board will probably not say anything to you but I will because you claim to be a seeker of truth. Winston, IMHO you are a hypocrite. You have no credibility on this subject. If you truly didn't want children, why did you father a child? Why didn't you have a vasectomy, which would have been the best thing to do if you did not want to have children?

Who are you to advocate that men should not have children? Why should anyone listen to you when you have your own son that you've left behind in the care of his mother. From what I understand, you provide financial support but that's it. You might visit once in a while, give gifts, take them to dinner, etc. but after awhile you leave again. Abdicating your responsibilities as a father to your son, except for the financial one. While you travel the world being happier abroad, you've left your son to be raised by his mother, indoctrinating and brainwashing him to her values.

Boys who are raised mostly by their mother usually grow up to be screwed up. At a minimum, they become another mangina in the world, endlessly white knighting women and putting them on a pedestal. Your son is already showing signs of being brainwashed. In another thread he calls you a playboy when he sees your picture. How much will he resent you or hate you after he grows up?

I have no respect for anyone who fails to take full responsibility for a life that they brought into this world. Your child didn't ask to be brought into this world. A man always has a choice and a real man takes full, not partial responsibility for the consequences of the choices that he makes. At least you're not as bad as many Filipino men, who father children and give absolutely no support to the children they bring into the world. At least you provide financial support.

I'm quite sure that you will relentlessly attack me for expressing this opinion and rationalize the choices that you've made. And your rationalization will go on and on and on and on..... But you can't change the truth.

Instead of calling your web site HappierAbroad, maybe you should change it to: SelfishlyHappierAbroad

This kind of strikes at the heart of Winston's greatest flaw. Winston, I have a question- do you seek to bring any good to this world beyond pleasure for yourself and spreading the word that others can have this selfish but enjoyable existence themselves? It seems you advocate meeting women abroad, but not marrying them nor procreating with them. While most of us concede that marriage and children are personal choices, you seem to advocate your particular brand of hedonism for everyone.

I guess it all comes down to this: when you die, how do you want those you leave behind to remember you? What mark do you want to leave on this world? What brings you pleasure aside from simply bringing yourself pleasure? Do you live for nothing else?

I think you have a lot of great ideas, but a lot of misguided ones as well.

[Teal Lantern]

I'm not going to even get into the instances about women impregnating themselves with the contents of spent condoms just to get the legal and financial hooks into the man.

Men should have the right to walk away if the women have the children against the men's wishes!

I'm sure you are referring to stories such as this one:
http://www.lasisblog.com/2011/02/26/man ... d-support/

That woman saved the sperm from giving the guy oral sex so she can impregnate herself and collect money.

There really is no such thing as "safe sex" anymore with women. Men must be careful in all different angles now.

It is so unfortunate that a guy who does not plan to have kids and has done what he can to prevent it, still risks having an unwanted child.

How about this case for paying for a kid you didn't want?
Feel free to play "reverse the genders".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer