Do Not Marry, Do Not Have Children

[Contrarian Expatriate]

One thing I don't get about MGTOW pundits is if they are into men going their own way, why does the pundit insist men go his own way and not their own way?

You don't get it because you truly are a veritable moron and you CAN'T get it.

But to break it down on an almost 5th grade level for you, any man who marries, by definition, cannot be going his own way. Marriage means going your WIFE's way, and to a lesser extent, going the state's way. You are therefore NOT a free man if you marry.

A man in the military cannot be MGTOW because his life and efforts are dictated by the military, not his own volition.

MGTOW is a lifestyle that maximizes a man's personal sovereignty. Men who foolishly give up their personal sovereignty to a wife and the state, are the antithesis of MGTOW.

Again, I don't expect this to make sense to you because you are too far gone down the path of trying to save an unsalvagable society via marriage, one that deserves to die off anyhow.

[MarcosZeitola]

I think marriage is something that one can debate. Obviously in today's society its fairly risky. Having children, however, is not something I could have done without. I find it infinitely rewarding to raise them, talk to them, instil values in them. Yes it can be a headache at times but people make it out to be worse than it is. I rather invest my time in kids than in walking a dog and picking up his droppings, at least kids outgrow that phase. Raise them right and be there for them, chances are they will be loyal to you in your old age.

Wives, girlfriends, they come and go. But play your cards right and kids are forever. Even Winston, for all his flaws and his many f**k-ups, at least has a son to tell stories to, to serve as some sort of legacy for him as he ages. It's a nice thought for me and many other men, and with reason. Just make sure you pick the proper woman to deposit your sperm into.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I think marriage is something that one can debate. Obviously in today's society its fairly risky.

I 100% agree with you here.

Having children, however, is not something I could have done without.

I support having children in a domestic partnership arrangement so long as the man is aware that that will be his new full-time job. However, I disagree that you could not have done without it. Most men in the history of the world have done without them and you would have gotten on with your life without them also. You just can't IMAGINE life without children because they are so fully part of your world now.

I find it infinitely rewarding to raise them....

Rewarding, perhaps, but INFINITELY rewarding, not even close. This is an example of when married guys use hyperbole to self-justify their family life. The rewards of raising children are quite finite I can assure you.

Instill values in them.....

This is a myth. Your children grow to formulate their own values. Sure, you might have FORCED values in them when they were children, but they grow up to have their own values and beliefs they quite often differ from your own. The world is rife with children who are diametrically opposed to the values of their parents. They are individual people, not mere extensions of you.

Raise them right and be there for them, chances are they will be loyal to you in your old age.

But is that a major reason why we should have kids, so they can be loyal in our final years? I think we should prepare kids to make a positive impact on the world. If a child grows up to be a huge, positive and lasting impact, I would say whomever parented him did a great job regardless of his relationship with the older parents.

Just make sure you pick the proper woman to deposit your sperm into.

This is not good advice MZ. Every man whose marriage crashes and burns thought he picked the proper woman. Even men whose marriages have yet to crash and burn think the same. A woman is a volatile creature capable of
morphing or changing into a variety of things on whims and feelings. Better to pick the woman you want to procreate with and prepare to protect yourself with every part of your being which includes forgoing marriage.

[jamesbond]

This guy just made this video yesterday explaining how courtship, engagement and marriage only benefits women and tends to screw men in the long run.

[Shemp]

Historically, most men had children because there was something in it for them to build their own tribe. All children were free labor and a retirement plan. Sons were a private army. Daughters could be used to make alliances with other tribes, reducing risks of conflict with those tribes and adding sons-in-law as auxiliary and less reliable soldiers in event of conflict with third parties.

European culture has done away with tribalism, which gave a huge initial boost to the economy, since everyone cooperates with everyone, rather than just with relatives. But doing away with tribalism removes the incentive for men to have children. Final result will be that Europeans ("whites" in the USA) arent reproducing and will soon be replaced by tribal mentality peoples (Muslims and Africans in Europe, Hispanics and other immigrants in the USA). This will lead to a low trust culture full of inter tribal conflict. Everyone will cheat on their taxes, since why pay for pensions and other gimmes that benefit another tribe? Government will go broke and cut back on the gimmes. Final result will be a corrupt, unequal and violent society like in Brazil, where the only people you can trust are relatives.

At that point, men like me will once again have an incentive to reproduce. Misandric laws won't matter, since any woman who cheats men in these sorts of societies gets whacked, with the relatives all colluding to give each other alibis so that her murder goes unpunished.

I don't care about this dystopian future, as long as or happens after I'm gone. And I certainly don't care about my genes. Anyway, genes for white skin will always exist somewhere, if the world really needs them.

[Yohan]

I think marriage is something that one can debate. Obviously in today's society its fairly risky. Having children, however, is not something I could have done without...

This is a good comment. I think, most Western men would not be against marriage if the legal situation is better for them. Nowadays a marriage contract is nothing but a sell-out of yourself if you are a man. - You are downgrading yourself.

Not only the legal situation is a serious concern, it remains the fact, that at least 50 percent (or more) of marriages are ending anyway in divorce - interesting to read that in Western statistics divorces which are carried out past10 years of marriage are not even counted as divorce, but considered as 'marriage fulfilled', whatever this should mean. Most divorces are initiated by the wife, not by the husband.

Yes, I am married, but with a foreign woman, living in Asia and not in Europe anymore since more than 40 years.
I have my wife, 2 daughters, and 2 grand-daughters and 1 Filipina fosterdaughter, and everything is fine, I have really no complaints about them.

However when I listen to some men from Europe, Northern America and their horror stories about their ex-wives and their children, I can only say, I was lucky.

For me it's easy to comment about marriage / children in Western countries - absolutely no way.
About marriage /children in Asia, I am not sure, if I would do it again. Maybe - or maybe not? And why not?

At my time of our marriage 1977, the legal situation man/wife and parents/children was totally different, not only in Japan, but also in Europe - and MGTOW was unknown...

But today, should I be young again, and had a choice between MGTOW or marriage/children (even here in Asia) with unclear future/unstable economy, feminism etc... Good question... To enjoy MGTOW vs. family life - but MGTOW means to be risk-averse, to be always on the safe side - compared to be married with children and you are in a risky situation... I don't know, but I am somehow risk-averse - why to do something what might be later on turn out to be against you?

About women, as a Western man you will find some women in Asia, who will stay with you, married or not, just girlfriend, sometimes co-habitation... about children, there are plenty of children around who have nobody and you choose some of them and help them without adoption and you will never find yourself in troubles like fathers after divorce.... What's wrong with that?

[MrMan]

One thing I don't get about MGTOW pundits is if they are into men going their own way, why does the pundit insist men go his own way and not their own way?

You don't get it because you truly are a veritable moron and you CAN'T get it.

But to break it down on an almost 5th grade level for you, any man who marries, by definition, cannot be going his own way. Marriage means going your WIFE's way, and to a lesser extent, going the state's way. You are therefore NOT a free man if you marry.

Here's contrarian expats new theme song.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/AXtoEFcPkbM?t=6[/youtube]

So are you wanting to wipe out the human race now? Women run your life if you let them. You probably say some things you wouldn't otherwise, eat at a restaurant you wouldn't otherwise, etc. when you are trying to persuade a 20-year-old woman to do whatever it is you want to do with her. The celibate MGTOWs who stay home with the dog all the time and never date, pining away about how good life could be if the legal system weren't messed up, may be free from a woman's influence....except at work, stores, and other public venues.

You could be even more free and go live out in the jungle by yourself. Living a life free of having family and other people in my life is not my objective.

MGTOW is a lifestyle that maximizes a man's personal sovereignty. Men who foolishly give up their personal sovereignty to a wife and the state, are the antithesis of MGTOW.

You left out throwing childish insults at men who disagree with the philosophy when the MGTOW runs out of good arguments. Isn't that a defining characteristic of being MGTOW?

Your philosophy is internally inconsistent anyway-- exalting the individual man's ultimate freedom to do as he wishes, but then insisting every man has to only do and wish the specific lifestyle you recommend. You really need to learn to lighten up and not get upset about men choosing other more responsible lifestyles. If every man were independently wealth trying to pay sugar daddy fees to 20-year-old white chicks in Russia, then there would be no men left to load your luggage at the airports, fly the planes, run the bars and restaurants and the other men would bid up the prices on your semi-pro girlfriends until you could not afford them.

Again, I don't expect this to make sense to you because you are too far gone down the path of trying to save an unsalvagable society via marriage, one that deserves to die off anyhow.

Are you wanting the human race to die out now?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

If every man were independently wealth trying to pay sugar daddy fees to 20-year-old white chicks in Russia, then there would be no men left to load your luggage at the airports, fly the planes, run the bars and restaurants and the other men would bid up the prices on your semi-pro girlfriends until you could not afford them.

Says the man who married one of these "Me So Horny" girls and who wants us to believe she was a virgin just as he was.



Sophistry can be hard to distinguish from plain old stupidity in religiously blue pilled simps like yourself.

Why not just stay married to your "eternal virgin" and be done with it? Instead of trying to convince us of how great your married life is, why don't you try convincing yourself of the truth. You're utterly miserable and MGTOW clearly reminds you of that.

[jamesbond]

I think, most Western men would not be against marriage if the legal situation is better for them. Nowadays a marriage contract is nothing but a sell-out of yourself if you are a man. - You are downgrading yourself.

Not only the legal situation is a serious concern, it remains the fact, that at least 50 percent (or more) of marriages are ending anyway in divorce - interesting to read that in Western statistics divorces which are carried out past10 years of marriage are not even counted as divorce, but considered as 'marriage fulfilled', whatever this should mean. Most divorces are initiated by the wife, not by the husband

Women initiate divorce about 75% of the time and most of the time they do it because they are not "happy" in their marriage! Whatever happened to women keeping their wedding vows which are; For richer or for poorer, In sickness and in health, For better or for worse, Till death do us part.

[Cornfed]

The argument youtuber JF Gariepy seems to be using to have children is that he is descended from an unbroken line of reproductive units and it can therefore be taken a priori that he is supposed to breed no matter what, so it only remains to be decided what form the breeding is to take. Of course both of his children, and interestingly one of his girlfriends, were kidnapped by the family courts and it could have been so much worse, so I don’t know what to make of that.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

The argument youtuber JF Gariepy seems to be using to have children is that he is descended from an unbroken line of reproductive units and it can therefore be taken a priori that he is supposed to breed no matter what.

Absolutely retarded! What if one does not want to RAISE any children with the costs, time, and headaches involved? Also, what if one has the inferior genetics of your two parents and an addlebrained, miscreant, reprobate like yourself could be the result?

A key lesson here is that YOU, in particular, should NEVER breed and I am so glad that white and Asian women will forever ensure you don't! JF Gariepy should be beaten like a truant stepchild for putting that idea in your head.

[Yohan]

Women initiate divorce about 75% of the time and most of the time they do it because they are not "happy" in their marriage! Whatever happened to women keeping their wedding vows which are; For richer or for poorer, In sickness and in health, For better or for worse, Till death do us part.

If it is only about divorce, and done in a fair way...but there is feminism.

The problem is deeper than only divorce - it is more about ridiculous rights married women enjoy in the Western world.

A wife can refuse to have sex with her husband.
I understand not every day is the same, sometimes you feel not really happy about it, but such a condition should not continue long term.
If you are a man and you marry, to have sex with your wife should be considered as 'normal'...is it wrong to say that?

To ask for consent for even the smallest 'sexual favor from your wife'? 'My husband kissed me improperly on my cheek...' 'I want to go out late night alone and my controlling husband was asking me where do you go?' Don't laugh, such BS-complaints were indeed brought forward by divorce lawyers in courts...

However the wife can accuse her husband of rape (true or false allegation does not matter) and at the same time she can sleep with multiple boyfriends around next door, in case she is getting pregnant she might tell the husband he is the father... and if everything is going wrong, insist on divorce and get the half of all assets of your husband...

As result of the divorce, she gets the house and the children and he pays alimony and child support over many years...even if he is not the biological father of HER children... The ex-husband is nothing but a 'walking ATM' 'a second class citizen'.

The husband wants children, but she is refusing - yes, this is HER right. She can take contraceptives not to become pregnant, she can also go for abortion, give away the child after birth to somebody for adoption, even if the father of this child (her boyfriend, her husband or ex-husband etc.) is willing to take over the newborn.

What is this? A marriage? Yes, this is the legal framework of a Western marriage contract.

Thank you, not with me - better reject such women from the very beginning on, it's not really about Western women, it is about a legal situation which makes sad fun out of men.

Hopefully some men will learn, but I am not sure. Many will not listen until it is too late...

[MrMan]

If every man were independently wealth trying to pay sugar daddy fees to 20-year-old white chicks in Russia, then there would be no men left to load your luggage at the airports, fly the planes, run the bars and restaurants and the other men would bid up the prices on your semi-pro girlfriends until you could not afford them.

Says the man who married one of these "Me So Horny" girls and who wants us to believe she was a virgin just as he was.

Sophistry can be hard to distinguish from plain old stupidity in religiously blue pilled simps like yourself.

Why not just stay married to your "eternal virgin" and be done with it? Instead of trying to convince us of how great your married life is, why don't you try convincing yourself of the truth. You're utterly miserable and MGTOW clearly reminds you of that.

I detect a hint of racism in some of your posts. My wife doesn't say 'me so horny.'

You've got to quit being so bitter towards people who do not want to live your lifestyle.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

My wife doesn't say 'me so horny.'

Perhaps she was just smart enough to not say that to YOU because you admitted you were a virgin when you met her.

You've got to quit being so bitter towards people who do not want to live your lifestyle.

90% of men in the world would prefer to live my lifestyle than to live yours. Don't kid yourself cuckold....

[MarcosZeitola]

The argument youtuber JF Gariepy seems to be using to have children is that he is descended from an unbroken line of reproductive units and it can therefore be taken a priori that he is supposed to breed no matter what, so it only remains to be decided what form the breeding is to take. Of course both of his children, and interestingly one of his girlfriends, were kidnapped by the family courts and it could have been so much worse, so I don’t know what to make of that.

Isn't JF Gariepy the one who married, had a kid and got divorced immediately, only for him to groom and impregnate an autistic Mexican teenager and claim she carried his child, which she denied? Going by what is written on the man online, he's hardly an individual worth emulating, although in your case Cornfed, you may consider his unusual mating strategies for your unusual self.