Germans and Dutch are protestant and financially successul yet why aren't they prudes like Anglos?

[ArchibaultNew]

Hey guys,

Initially, a few years ago I thought the whole debate boiled down to Catholicism vs Protestantism. However, due to my deep interest in these topics, I started to learn both German and Dutch as well as learn about New Amsterdam. Also, Protestantism is an "Umbrella term" for many religions that divert from Catholicism. The Anglo version is the "Calvinist" inspired but it has all other unique ideas. Taking away any "Sophistication" and practicing some form of very strict "Asceticism" paired with a "Call out Culture"

Hence, I started to arrive at new conclusions that I never thought of before.

I met a German guy who told me that there's a degree of "Self-Expression" in Germanic society while Anglo societies are about "Public Good" these means "Social Control."

For instance, a bunch of young people partying in their room in Dutch and German eyes would be seen as "expressing themselves" while in Anglo societies would be seen as "social disrupters" For instance, there were some Germans who would vacation in Florida and many Anglo would call them mean nicknames, which I don't want to repeat. Disliked them as "social disruptors." Tourists who would "lower" the price of their cherished properties. The Puritan Personality is very "business-oriented" as the Quebeckers said these guys are not interested in having fun at all.

I think Winston might have alluded to this topic, but I do believe there are some parallels with some East Asian societies and Anglo societies as opposed to European societies. In which "materialism" and "social harmony" are much more paramount than people think.

It seems that in New Amsterdam(Protestant)
-Generally Egalitarian society.
-More Libertarians like to focus on making money but do as you please in your private time.
-Legal Prostitution
-Lots of drinking and merry times.
-Multicultural people from different backgrounds are allowed to have their businesses.
-Generally, an open culture where anyone could start their business.

New England(Puritan)
-Less Egalitarian and more confrotational between the different groups.
-A brand of social conservatism where "social controls" are paramount(See George Orwell)
-Illegal and stigmatized prostitution.
-No alcohol nor merry times.
-Unicultural and battle with other outsider groups like Natives, Africans, and others.
-A closed culture where only a "chosen few" could start their business.

On German Women vs American Women
This is one of the many reasons that I'm highly suspicious of the term "Western." As some of you had said neither Germany nor the Netherlands had segregation. I admit that the UK is slightly better than America as they too didn't have segregation either.

I had dated German women and I noticed that they have fewer qualms about the whole "race-mixing." There's many guys from different minority group who said that among "Portland style liberals" they were side stepped while in Europe they were more welcome. German women base their decision on whether they like you or not, on themselves. They are true individualists in many ways. Meanwhile, American women base their decision on the collective, whenever others think you are "cool" or you are "approved" by their friends and the larger society. This parallels with the East Asian societies where the collective has more weight.

The whole "work hard/play hard" motto seems to apply much more to the Dutch and the Germans. I've met a Dutch party girl and saw similar patterns. American societies is very ascetism and business orientated while the other Anglo societies are also like this but slightly less so.

[jamesbond]

On German Women vs American Women

I had dated German women and I noticed that they have fewer qualms about the whole "race-mixing." There's many guys from different minority group who said that among "Portland style liberals" they were side stepped while in Europe they were more welcome. German women base their decision on whether they like you or not, on themselves. They are true individualists in many ways. Meanwhile, American women base their decision on the collective, whenever others think you are "cool" or you are "approved" by their friends and the larger society. This parallels with the East Asian societies where the collective has more weight.

American women (at least with white American women) do base their decision on whether they like you if their friends like you. If their friends don't approve of you, she will not want to date you (even if she really likes you).

American women are a strange breed indeed (at least white American women). No wonder why so many men in the USA are avoiding American women altogether and going overseas to find wives and girlfriends.

[Yohan]

..... I had dated German women and I noticed that they have fewer qualms about the whole "race-mixing."

This stupid 'race mixing' issues are a product of the former British Empire, it became later on an issue in USA and especially in South Africa, also some Australian people are into 'race' issues...

It never existed in former French colonies or colonies controlled by other countries except UK, there were never laws against dating people of other race.

Also this rampant radical feminism is mainly found with women from English speaking areas.
Women who are not related to that regions are by far less into this toxic stuff, are less hateful against men, regardless if they are from a rich area or a poor area.

[jamesbond]

Also this rampant radical feminism is mainly found with women from English speaking areas.
Women who are not related to that regions are by far less into this toxic stuff, are less hateful against men, regardless if they are from a rich area or a poor area.

Exactly, feminism only exists in english speaking countries. No wonder why so many men from Anglo countries are having a difficult time with women in those particular countries.

[Lucas88]

I'm not too familiar with Continental Germanic societies and so I can't really say much about them other than conjectures based on testimonies of expats and natives that I've read online.

From what I've read it doesn't seem to me like Continental Germanic societies are great bastions of male sexual freedom either. They too seem to have the same kind of woman worship, droves of effeminate men who kowtow to feminist sensitivities, high numbers of incels, and an increasing subset of men who voice their dissatisfaction with their own women. There is definitely sexual disharmony between men and women in other Germanic countries although probably not to the same degree as in the Anglosphere.

If the situation of Continental Germanic societies is indeed not as bad I venture to speculate that it could be due to the following reasons:

1. A more organic concept of freedom

Continental Germanic societies tend to conceive freedom more in terms of the freedom of the individual to participate in civil life with all of its rights and responsibilities. The individual and the community exist in harmony and share a relationship of mutual benefit. Most people therefore feel a sense of belonging.

Anglo-Saxon societies on the other hand have a more unhealthy concept of freedom. Rather than the right to participate in something greater and mutually beneficial Anglo-Saxons almost always see freedom as the right to be free from social constraints and other external influences. Needless to say, this results in atomization, a lack of sense of belonging, anomie, and eventually distrust for others and social paranoia.

2. A preference for the carrot rather than the stick

Because Continental Germanic societies foster greater harmony and social cohesion through their more organic concept of freedom and therefore lack much of the atomization and anti-sociality of their Anglo-Saxon counterparts, the work culture of those societies prefers to incentivize work participation and productivity through positive rewards. The goal is to create and maintain a community that benefits all participants and looks out for their needs. Incidentally many people have told me that German companies are really good and make an effort to look after their workers.

Anglo-Saxon societies on the other hand are a completely different story. In light of their atomization and anti-sociality the Anglo-Saxon industrial elite takes the approach of the stick, fomenting cutthroat competition among the population (for the sake of maximizing productivity) and threatening those who don't perform well enough with negative consequences such as loss of status and relegation to the underclass of losers. The Anglo-Saxon approach is much more cynical and conflictive. Ironically productivity is still lower than that of the Germans.

Conclusion

Because Continental Germanic societies are characterized by greater harmony and social cohesion and make use of the carrot rather than the stick there was never any need for a sexually ineligible male underclass. The result of this is less hostility towards male sexuality and therefore a more favorable dating culture than that of the Anglosphere.

[IraqVet2003]

Hey guys,

Initially, a few years ago I thought the whole debate boiled down to Catholicism vs Protestantism. However, due to my deep interest in these topics, I started to learn both German and Dutch as well as learn about New Amsterdam. Also, Protestantism is an "Umbrella term" for many religions that divert from Catholicism. The Anglo version is the "Calvinist" inspired but it has all other unique ideas. Taking away any "Sophistication" and practicing some form of very strict "Asceticism" paired with a "Call out Culture"

Hence, I started to arrive at new conclusions that I never thought of before.

I met a German guy who told me that there's a degree of "Self-Expression" in Germanic society while Anglo societies are about "Public Good" these means "Social Control."

For instance, a bunch of young people partying in their room in Dutch and German eyes would be seen as "expressing themselves" while in Anglo societies would be seen as "social disrupters" For instance, there were some Germans who would vacation in Florida and many Anglo would call them mean nicknames, which I don't want to repeat. Disliked them as "social disruptors." Tourists who would "lower" the price of their cherished properties. The Puritan Personality is very "business-oriented" as the Quebeckers said these guys are not interested in having fun at all.

I think Winston might have alluded to this topic, but I do believe there are some parallels with some East Asian societies and Anglo societies as opposed to European societies. In which "materialism" and "social harmony" are much more paramount than people think.

It seems that in New Amsterdam(Protestant)
-Generally Egalitarian society.
-More Libertarians like to focus on making money but do as you please in your private time.
-Legal Prostitution
-Lots of drinking and merry times.
-Multicultural people from different backgrounds are allowed to have their businesses.
-Generally, an open culture where anyone could start their business.

New England(Puritan)
-Less Egalitarian and more confrotational between the different groups.
-A brand of social conservatism where "social controls" are paramount(See George Orwell)
-Illegal and stigmatized prostitution.
-No alcohol nor merry times.
-Unicultural and battle with other outsider groups like Natives, Africans, and others.
-A closed culture where only a "chosen few" could start their business.

On German Women vs American Women
This is one of the many reasons that I'm highly suspicious of the term "Western." As some of you had said neither Germany nor the Netherlands had segregation. I admit that the UK is slightly better than America as they too didn't have segregation either.

I had dated German women and I noticed that they have fewer qualms about the whole "race-mixing." There's many guys from different minority group who said that among "Portland style liberals" they were side stepped while in Europe they were more welcome. German women base their decision on whether they like you or not, on themselves. They are true individualists in many ways. Meanwhile, American women base their decision on the collective, whenever others think you are "cool" or you are "approved" by their friends and the larger society. This parallels with the East Asian societies where the collective has more weight.

The whole "work hard/play hard" motto seems to apply much more to the Dutch and the Germans. I've met a Dutch party girl and saw similar patterns. American societies is very ascetism and business orientated while the other Anglo societies are also like this but slightly less so.

I really like this thread. I also agree with what is said here about attractive German and Dutch women being more open to interracial dating and marriage vs. the Anglosphere countries such as the United States or U.K.

[MrMan]

Hey guys,

You might fight Shalom Schwartz research interesting.
https://www.google.com/search?q=schwart ... 59dXghovQM

[MrMan]

Partying really loud so that you can be heard in the dwellings of other people who are not partying who have nothing to do with your party at night, is not cool.

[MrMan]

Hey guys,

Initially, a few years ago I thought the whole debate boiled down to Catholicism vs Protestantism. However, due to my deep interest in these topics, I started to learn both German and Dutch as well as learn about New Amsterdam. Also, Protestantism is an "Umbrella term" for many religions that divert from Catholicism. The Anglo version is the "Calvinist" inspired but it has all other unique ideas. Taking away any "Sophistication" and practicing some form of very strict "Asceticism" paired with a "Call out Culture"

Hence, I started to arrive at new conclusions that I never thought of before.

I met a German guy who told me that there's a degree of "Self-Expression" in Germanic society while Anglo societies are about "Public Good" these means "Social Control."

For instance, a bunch of young people partying in their room in Dutch and German eyes would be seen as "expressing themselves" while in Anglo societies would be seen as "social disrupters" For instance, there were some Germans who would vacation in Florida and many Anglo would call them mean nicknames, which I don't want to repeat. Disliked them as "social disruptors." Tourists who would "lower" the price of their cherished properties. The Puritan Personality is very "business-oriented" as the Quebeckers said these guys are not interested in having fun at all.

I think Winston might have alluded to this topic, but I do believe there are some parallels with some East Asian societies and Anglo societies as opposed to European societies. In which "materialism" and "social harmony" are much more paramount than people think.

It seems that in New Amsterdam(Protestant)
-Generally Egalitarian society.
-More Libertarians like to focus on making money but do as you please in your private time.
-Legal Prostitution
-Lots of drinking and merry times.
-Multicultural people from different backgrounds are allowed to have their businesses.
-Generally, an open culture where anyone could start their business.

New England(Puritan)
-Less Egalitarian and more confrotational between the different groups.
-A brand of social conservatism where "social controls" are paramount(See George Orwell)
-Illegal and stigmatized prostitution.
-No alcohol nor merry times.
-Unicultural and battle with other outsider groups like Natives, Africans, and others.
-A closed culture where only a "chosen few" could start their business.

On German Women vs American Women
This is one of the many reasons that I'm highly suspicious of the term "Western." As some of you had said neither Germany nor the Netherlands had segregation. I admit that the UK is slightly better than America as they too didn't have segregation either.

I had dated German women and I noticed that they have fewer qualms about the whole "race-mixing." There's many guys from different minority group who said that among "Portland style liberals" they were side stepped while in Europe they were more welcome. German women base their decision on whether they like you or not, on themselves. They are true individualists in many ways. Meanwhile, American women base their decision on the collective, whenever others think you are "cool" or you are "approved" by their friends and the larger society. This parallels with the East Asian societies where the collective has more weight.

The whole "work hard/play hard" motto seems to apply much more to the Dutch and the Germans. I've met a Dutch party girl and saw similar patterns. American societies is very ascetism and business orientated while the other Anglo societies are also like this but slightly less so.

This paper tells how a brothel was shut down at Augsburg due to the urging of Lutheran preachers during the Reformation era. https://www.jstor.org/stable/4288621

Geneva Switzerland outlawed prostitution and regulated sex and other areas of human life: <http://www.johnwittejr.com/uploads/5/4/ ... 3/a198.pdf>. Many of the English Protestants were Calvinists, and Scottish Presbyterians especially looked to Geneva as a model. The idea of being against excessive merriment, certainly with too much drinking involved, was considered characteristic of Puritans in England. Charles II was called 'the merry monarch' for lifting some of the bans on merriment. The anti-merriment (or at least drunken varieties of it) might have been a stronger emphasis of Calvinism than other Protestants. But that doesn't mean they did not drink alcoholic beverages. New Englanders drank a lot of hard cider back in the day.

[ArchibaultNew]

Hey guys,

You might fight Shalom Schwartz research interesting.
https://www.google.com/search?q=schwart ... 59dXghovQM

Hey man, great article the Schalom Schartz one. I'm not sure if its Vet or MrMan who recommened it. Thank to both.

It seems that Europe is strong in "Intellectual Autonomy" while the Anglo world is about affective automony. I will read on to figure out the differences.