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Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Winston
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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Winston » July 15th, 2018, 11:42 pm

@Aron
Of course the story of Jesus is about human sacrifice if you want to take orthodox Christianity literally. I don't see your point. No I don't like human sacrifice either. But that was the way of ancient religions. You gotta remember we are not at the top of the food chain. We are food for higher entities too, like the Archons and Reptilians. See this short explanation by Devin Magdy about the reptilian/archon energy extraction matrix here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVjKD9SJhuo

David Icke explains the reptilian/archon control matrix here too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxP86-T8jBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7V8HYt0dAA

If you are new to this stuff, it might sound a bit kooky. I'm not saying you should believe it, but it's something to consider and would explain a lot of things that other paradigms - including religion and atheism - cannot explain.

We are essentially on a human farm and soul farm. A farmer has to kill some of his animals because that's what the farm is for, food. Likewise, in our world, they have to sacrifice people in various ways, to serve the masters of the elite. That's why they start senseless wars like the two world wars and the Vietnam War, etc and insist on them. When you understand that they are mass sacrifice rituals, they start to make sense as to why the elite are so adamant on them. Use your brain. Do you think the elite, who are smarter than us, are dumb enough to keep a dumb senseless war like Vietnam going for over 10 years as a mistake, if there wasn't a higher purpose behind it that they can't tell you about? Of course not. The elite don't make mistakes that last for 10 years. Nothing happens by chance, as FDR said. It's just that you don't know about it because you aren't supposed to know. This is something that elites and rulers know about. This is the big secret hidden from you. But a lot of it has come out in the last decade in the truth movement.

Of course, another purpose of war is to destabilize a region and replace it with a new government that serves the New World Order and has more centralized power. That's why the UN was created after WW2, not to promote peace (you're not that dumb are you?) but to centralize power and consolidate it toward world government. Then came the EU too. Even after WW1, the League of Nations was created for the same purpose, but it failed. So they had to try again after the second world war.

Big events happen for multiple reasons. Just like when you make big decisions in your life, you make them for multiple reasons, not just one.

Proofs of the false light matrix? Whitley Strieber first came up with it in his research and experiences with alien abductions. You should visit his site and podcast called Dreamland to find out more about it. Also visit Wayne Bush's website too. I gave you the link before. See below. I cannot answer complicated questions with short paragraphs. Sometimes explanations require more background information to understand them properly.

Whitley Strieber
http://www.unknowncountry.com

Wayne Bush
http://www.trickedbythelight.com

Also the Wes Penre Papers go into detail about it too. You can download them for free at:

http://www.wespenre.com

The CBC documentary should work. It does for me still. Does it say that it's blocked in your country? What does it say when you click on it? Try again.

It seems you are being too literal and left brained. Try to look deeper or use your right brain too. Whole brained thinking is best. And you are using straw mans too. I never said that Christianity was all good. It contains a mix of good and bad, like any religion. I never argued that it didn't have bad things in it. But the Christianity you know today probably wasn't the one Jesus preached. That was my point. Why do you not understand that? This has been the spiritual view of freethinkers for a long time now. That Christianity was subverted by Paul and then by the Roman Emperors and Catholic Church. It gradually evolved, like any other religion. Of course the orthodox version of Christianity has good and bad in it. I never disputed that. I said I agreed with that all along.

So you said my SCEPCOP site deconverted you from atheism? That's cool. So what are you now? Are you agnostic or theistic or something else?

You gotta understand that a lot of higher truths cannot be proven. You just gotta go with your gut feeling and decide which truth or theory makes the most sense to you or feels right. Anyone can provide evidence for a theory. But you gotta ultimately decide if that evidence is enough for you. Plus evidence from different theories can conflict too, so you gotta try to find a way to harmonize them or reconcile them or just accept that paradoxes are part of the nature of reality.
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Winston
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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Winston » July 16th, 2018, 6:22 pm

@Aron,
Here below, the Gnostic author John Lash says the same thing that you said earlier, that Christmas is a celebration of child sacrifice, which is an Illuminati ritual



Perhaps that is why JonBenet Ramsey was sacrificed on Christmas? Arizona Wilder said the Illuminati have a child sacrifice ritual on Christmas called "The Last Bulb" and that's what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. See here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36141
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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » July 17th, 2018, 11:48 pm

@Winston
Winston wrote:
July 15th, 2018, 11:42 pm
Of course the story of Jesus is about human sacrifice if you want to take orthodox Christianity literally. I don't see your point. No I don't like human sacrifice either. But that was the way of ancient religions. You gotta remember we are not at the top of the food chain. We are food for higher entities too, like the Archons and Reptilians. See this short explanation by Devin Magdy about the reptilian/archon energy extraction matrix here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVjKD9SJhuo

David Icke explains the reptilian/archon control matrix here too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxP86-T8jBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7V8HYt0dAA

If you are new to this stuff, it might sound a bit kooky. I'm not saying you should believe it, but it's something to consider and would explain a lot of things that other paradigms - including religion and atheism - cannot explain.
The guy who made the first video is a flat earther. I watched the video and it basically just says the same thing a lot of these types of people say. Their solution is always just generic 'love' or something along those lines to fix anything and they don't offer any real evidence for what they're saying. That David Icke video is 2 hours long. It's like I need to watch multiple 1hr+ documentaries to have a conversation here. Although i already know basically what David Icke believes, that due to Reptillians or something along those lines everyone is stuck into an alien controlled system leading the world to WW3.

We are essentially on a human farm and soul farm. A farmer has to kill some of his animals because that's what the farm is for, food. Likewise, in our world, they have to sacrifice people in various ways, to serve the masters of the elite. That's why they start senseless wars like the two world wars and the Vietnam War, etc and insist on them. When you understand that they are mass sacrifice rituals, they start to make sense as to why the elite are so adamant on them. Use your brain. Do you think the elite, who are smarter than us, are dumb enough to keep a dumb senseless war like Vietnam going for over 10 years as a mistake, if there wasn't a higher purpose behind it that they can't tell you about? Of course not. The elite don't make mistakes that last for 10 years. Nothing happens by chance, as FDR said. It's just that you don't know about it because you aren't supposed to know. This is something that elites and rulers know about. This is the big secret hidden from you. But a lot of it has come out in the last decade in the truth movement.

Of course, another purpose of war is to destabilize a region and replace it with a new government that serves the New World Order and has more centralized power. That's why the UN was created after WW2, not to promote peace (you're not that dumb are you?)
Idk if you realized but this is a bad way to have conversations with people. I'm not really offended since I don't trust the UN much anyways but you should realize that more often what this is going to do is get people who do not agree with you to just label you as an ass-hat from there and ignore anything else you have to say.
but to centralize power and consolidate it toward world government. Then came the EU too. Even after WW1, the League of Nations was created for the same purpose, but it failed. So they had to try again after the second world war.

Big events happen for multiple reasons. Just like when you make big decisions in your life, you make them for multiple reasons, not just one.

Proofs of the false light matrix? Whitley Strieber first came up with it in his research and experiences with alien abductions. You should visit his site and podcast called Dreamland to find out more about it. Also visit Wayne Bush's website too. I gave you the link before. See below. I cannot answer complicated questions with short paragraphs. Sometimes explanations require more background information to understand them properly.

Whitley Strieber
http://www.unknowncountry.com

Wayne Bush
http://www.trickedbythelight.com

Also the Wes Penre Papers go into detail about it too. You can download them for free at:

http://www.wespenre.com

The CBC documentary should work. It does for me still. Does it say that it's blocked in your country? What does it say when you click on it? Try again.

It seems you are being too literal and left brained. Try to look deeper or use your right brain too. Whole brained thinking is best. And you are using straw mans too. I never said that Christianity was all good. It contains a mix of good and bad, like any religion. I never argued that it didn't have bad things in it. But the Christianity you know today probably wasn't the one Jesus preached. That was my point. Why do you not understand that? This has been the spiritual view of freethinkers for a long time now. That Christianity was subverted by Paul and then by the Roman Emperors and Catholic Church. It gradually evolved, like any other religion. Of course the orthodox version of Christianity has good and bad in it. I never disputed that. I said I agreed with that all along.

So you said my SCEPCOP site deconverted you from atheism? That's cool. So what are you now? Are you agnostic or theistic or something else?

You gotta understand that a lot of higher truths cannot be proven. You just gotta go with your gut feeling and decide which truth or theory makes the most sense to you or feels right. Anyone can provide evidence for a theory. But you gotta ultimately decide if that evidence is enough for you. Plus evidence from different theories can conflict too, so you gotta try to find a way to harmonize them or reconcile them or just accept that paradoxes are part of the nature of reality.
I looked at that trickedbythelight website and i guess the best proof they have is NDE examples although it's not like other types of paranormal phenomenon where you can obviously prove it with examples like verdical NDEs, people gaining information they could not possibly learn or just recovering from impossible scenarios like with Eben Alexander for example. They say all the NDES they list are from NDERF but i don't see where they are putting links for their sources on these NDE examples.

The general idea of a 'computer matrix reality' is not really proven as far as i can tell in that site, and i think you are wrong that many true things cannot be proven, truth does exist and there's lots of evidence for many supposedly 'supernatural' things out there. For example just because nobody knows yet doesn't mean that telepathy has no mechanism fitting the laws of nature. Scientist Michael Persinger thinks it's related to the earth's magnetic field which makes sense. The human brain and nervous system run on bio electric impulses, of course telepathy would be related to magnetic fields and electricity.

I wasn't using a strawman with Christianity. What i do not understand is what you see as so valuable that's part of Christianity. Christianity revolves around people being 'saved by Jesus/God' and having to conform to their teachings.

The CBC documentary works now. I watched the documentary, most of it just talked about how Jesus has been proven to not be historical. It would help if next time you say which part of it talks about why Jesus's life is meaningful as an allegory since it's only the last 5 minutes. Basically what he said was that modern Christianity is about people thinking they are bad and sinners which he doesn't like. Then he says that Jesus is supposed to represent the divine in everyone. And makes a weird metaphor saying the virgin birth is supposed to represent people becoming better or something. I feel like he is just stretching it.

Even if Christianity is supposed to have been better in the past a lot of the negative parts of Christianity seem very central and part of the main core of it. One of them is that Christianity basically tells people to focus on the afterlife and that their material life and health isn't important. This is something that it seems like is a problem honestly with New Age people too. Basically what these people think is that what matters is 'oneness' and universally directed love, but it doesn't manifest in any concrete methodology of improving the world to be more loving and caring or improving themselves. And since they believe the afterlife is a universally benevolent happy place the result is everyone just thinks it doesn't really matter if things go wrong in the real world since the afterlife is just fine. Which makes me think this kind of mindset works against anything improving in the material real world. In a way it's the inverse side of the Atheist nihilism, in atheism life is meaningless because people will stop existing when they die and there's nothing you can do about it, in a lot of New Age types beliefs life is essentially meaningless since the afterlife is supposed to be way better and the afterlife is always going to be there regardless of what happens to the real world.

In other words it's supposed to not matter what goes wrong in the world. Although honestly I have not seen any proof that they are wrong about the afterlife, and there is a lot of evidence of life after death, it would make sense to me if people just proceeded on the possibility that maybe there is some risk to their existence and tried a bit harder to keep the earth habitable along with preserving their species and race. So they are still able to reincarnate on Earth and what not. If there really was a false light trap after death and extremely malevolent aliens trying to maneuver people into it it wouldn't be a surprise if they tried to drain them dry and destroy their existence, whether or not it's possible for them to do that, or for people to somehow be resurrected if their astral body was destroyed. Since even people in the real world do often think that murder is destroying someone's existence and do it anyways, so it wouldn't be a surprise if malevolent entities really wanted to do so. What would be the end conclusion of such thinking, well the goal would be to first of all make sure people stay in existence but second of all to maintain their physical existence too, so the ultimate end result would probably be trying to invent scientific immortality of some kind as is the case with the sex cells telomeres not decaying unlike the normal cells telomeres. Meanwhile inventing technology that can detect ghosts and determine who someone was in their past life, or communicate with ghosts, or simply help induce psychic abilities in people, would all be major important inventions that would change things a lot.

I watched the John Lash video. I haven't heard of the idea of Christmas actually being human sacrifice but i agree there's evidence of human sacrifice being a big issue with the Abrahamic religions. I mean if you look at what Christians actually do to me it shows the problems with Christianity:
Christians every week sit down and listen to indoctrination telling them to obey God no matter what. Some of them pray to God to solve all their problems and beg for mercy to not be tortured for all eternity or erased from existence(as many Christians believe happens to those who don't get allowed in to Heaven). They eat the symbolic flesh and blood of Jesus every Sunday. They believe all the time that their salvation comes from someone else and they are powerless spiritually which reinforces their powerlessness. They circumcise their sons and justify it either based on Christianity or entirely untrue 'science',which was used to justify Christianity Islam and Judaism anyways. They spend a lot of money every year on presents for Christmas which just drives the general consumerist insane culture. Due to their Christianity their effective level of intelligence is massively nerfed, since logical thinking would make them realize christianity is bullshit. They generally suppress sexuality and tell people to not even use protection which makes them end up having 'oops kids' and not establish control over the rhythm of their life. Circumcision is a major factor here in sexual suppression, and they push the Christian indoctrination further with the general belief that God is responsible for love too with phrases like 'a match made in heaven' and so on. Since Christianity tells them their physical life is not important they are pushed down from questioning the insanity of the modern corporate culture and just accept the daily routine of their Job, just like the guy Job in the Bible who accepts whatever bullshit God imposes on him. Since they believe in the dictator God they can't question their corporate dictators at work or any of the general system. Christianity tells them basically that anything spiritual is of the devil so they are pushed further towards rejecting any evidence for ESP if they see it and are hit with a double whammy also since as far as they know the only alternative to Christianity is Atheism and disbelieving in anything psychic just like in Christianity. Or some other Abrahamic religion, or Buddhism since it tells people to just pursue "Nirvana'/non-existence.

So, there's a whole lot of stuff with Christianity that seems bad, even their normal routines that seem central in the religion, that's why it seems like Christianity has a lot more problems than anything good.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » July 23rd, 2018, 10:28 pm

@Winston

Bumping the thread since it's been about a week with no response from you, if you don't want to respond anymore just say it in a post rather than randomly vanishing.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Bao3niang » September 2nd, 2018, 12:26 am

A true Christian will not continue to live in sin. Yes we are saved by faith, and grace, not by our own works, but a Christian with true faith will not continue to live a life of sin. "Sola fide", as understood by many, is a heresy.
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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » September 13th, 2018, 1:12 am

@Bao3niang

You need to realize you are being brainwashed into an authoritarian belief system where some God rules over you and will torture you for eternity if you don't meet his standards. That's not something a good person does, it's more like what a psychopath might do. Hopefully you will spend even a moment considering this, rather than continuing to tell yourself that it's good for people to be tortured forever if they aren't Christians.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Neo » September 13th, 2018, 1:10 pm

There are indeed carnal Christians and carnal saved people. Behavior isn't really an indicator, although it would seem like it should be. People don't realize how the penalty for sin is death, but that death can come in various different ways. Carnal Christians, if they do not repent in time, may have their lives shortened, or they will suffer from various illnesses they otherwise would not have had, or suffer sorrow of heart, or many other punishments in this life.

God expects people to behave righteously, but especially toward other people. Don't try to deceive them and don't be cruel. Treat them as you would have them treat you. That's the number two thing a person needs to concern himself with in this life (with number one being that the person must get saved and acknowledge that Jesus is The Son of God; the Messiah, Redeemer, Savior, the Christ).

God reserves His wrath for His enemies. I'd be careful about implying that the Creator is anything that is not pure and righteous.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » September 16th, 2018, 1:33 am

@Neo
Neo wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 1:10 pm
There are indeed carnal Christians and carnal saved people. Behavior isn't really an indicator, although it would seem like it should be. People don't realize how the penalty for sin is death, but that death can come in various different ways. Carnal Christians, if they do not repent in time, may have their lives shortened, or they will suffer from various illnesses they otherwise would not have had, or suffer sorrow of heart, or many other punishments in this life.

God expects people to behave righteously, but especially toward other people. Don't try to deceive them and don't be cruel. Treat them as you would have them treat you. That's the number two thing a person needs to concern himself with in this life (with number one being that the person must get saved and acknowledge that Jesus is The Son of God; the Messiah, Redeemer, Savior, the Christ).

God reserves His wrath for His enemies. I'd be careful about implying that the Creator is anything that is not pure and righteous.
Not sure if you realize but there is a big contradiction in your belief system. You think treating others as you would treat yourself, and in general trying to be a good person is good, but then you ignore that God does not fit in this framework. It's a double standard. "Obey God or die/be tortured for all eternity" is the fundamental message of Christianity, and if that doesn't sound any alarm bells in you you've got some serious problems.

Also, Christianity basically tells people to believe in human blood sacrifice. Jesus is explained as someone who's literally a human blood sacrifice that 'died for your sins', meaning death somehow was good. He is not depicted as some character who just failed and was killed, no, he dies on purpose in an obvious parallel to human blood sacrifice. Just like in the Old Testament where Abraham tries to sacrifice his son because God says so.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Neo » September 16th, 2018, 6:34 am

Obedience is one thing. Faith is another. To be saved, all a person must do is believe that Jesus is the Son of God, meaning that Jesus is the Messiah. Obedience is a different matter. However, as for people who are filled with hatred for others, God may not have an interest in giving them the faith to believe in Him.

As for the blood, when a person gets saved by believing in Christ, they are then automatically covered the blood of Jesus forever.

Jesus died for us because the penalty for sin is death, meaning He took our punishment so we wouldn't have to die for our own sins. That is, because Adam sinned and brought death into the world, Christ came to rescue us from it by sacrificing Himself. That is the love the Creator has for His creation.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Yohan » September 16th, 2018, 8:08 am

Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians...

You might extend this sentence to any religion,

Why many Muslims are not TRUE Muslims...
Why many Buddhists are not TRUE Buddhists...
Why many Hindus are not TRUE Hindus... etc.

I heard about a Jehovah Witness, who is against blood transfusion, but when he got seriously sick -life-threatening condition - he was asking for a heart transplant...

Many attend religious services merely out of tradition, but otherwise they don't care much, and this is the same with followers of all religions...

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » September 17th, 2018, 9:33 pm

@Neo
Neo wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 6:34 am
Obedience is one thing. Faith is another. To be saved, all a person must do is believe that Jesus is the Son of God, meaning that Jesus is the Messiah. Obedience is a different matter. However, as for people who are filled with hatred for others, God may not have an interest in giving them the faith to believe in Him.
You are not understanding. That demand of faith IS obedience, you say anyone who does not go and say they believe will go be tortured for eternity. So they are commanded essentially to fake like they believe even if they don't, when beliefs don't really work that way, that's just asking people to lie to evade punishment.
As for the blood, when a person gets saved by believing in Christ, they are then automatically covered the blood of Jesus forever.

Jesus died for us because the penalty for sin is death, meaning He took our punishment so we wouldn't have to die for our own sins. That is, because Adam sinned and brought death into the world, Christ came to rescue us from it by sacrificing Himself. That is the love the Creator has for His creation.
I've heard the story already, I don't agree with it. You aren't justifying any of these ideas. You haven't defined what sin is and why it's wrong, or why the penalty should be death, or how in the world one person's wrongdoings can make all of their descendants guilty. You can't charge people for crimes they didn't commit. Why does one person dying suddenly redeem people? How does that make any sense to you?

You call everyone who isn't Christian filled with hatred for others, this really just isn't true at all, plenty of atheists and skeptics of religion are kind people. But due to your Christianity you are told they are supposed to go to hell anyways since they don't believe in your religion. Doesn't that seem wrong to you? How is not believing in something a crime?

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Neo » September 18th, 2018, 12:13 am

Aron wrote:
September 17th, 2018, 9:33 pm
@Neo
Neo wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 6:34 am
Obedience is one thing. Faith is another. To be saved, all a person must do is believe that Jesus is the Son of God, meaning that Jesus is the Messiah. Obedience is a different matter. However, as for people who are filled with hatred for others, God may not have an interest in giving them the faith to believe in Him.
You are not understanding. That demand of faith IS obedience, you say anyone who does not go and say they believe will go be tortured for eternity. So they are commanded essentially to fake like they believe even if they don't, when beliefs don't really work that way, that's just asking people to lie to evade punishment.
As for the blood, when a person gets saved by believing in Christ, they are then automatically covered the blood of Jesus forever.

Jesus died for us because the penalty for sin is death, meaning He took our punishment so we wouldn't have to die for our own sins. That is, because Adam sinned and brought death into the world, Christ came to rescue us from it by sacrificing Himself. That is the love the Creator has for His creation.
I've heard the story already, I don't agree with it. You aren't justifying any of these ideas. You haven't defined what sin is and why it's wrong, or why the penalty should be death, or how in the world one person's wrongdoings can make all of their descendants guilty. You can't charge people for crimes they didn't commit. Why does one person dying suddenly redeem people? How does that make any sense to you?

You call everyone who isn't Christian filled with hatred for others, this really just isn't true at all, plenty of atheists and skeptics of religion are kind people. But due to your Christianity you are told they are supposed to go to hell anyways since they don't believe in your religion. Doesn't that seem wrong to you? How is not believing in something a crime?
Have it your way. I'm not here to debate you, and it doesn't really matter to me that you don't want to believe.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » September 18th, 2018, 12:27 am

@Neo

Sure, it would probably be a waste of time to try to convince you of anything anyways given your mindset.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Neo » September 18th, 2018, 12:33 am

Aron wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 12:27 am
@Neo

Sure, it would probably be a waste of time to try to convince you of anything anyways given your mindset.
My suggestion, if you want answers, is that you make your own personal research into the nature of sin.

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Re: Why many Christians are not TRUE Christians

Post by Aron » September 24th, 2018, 4:36 am

@Neo

That's an obvious cop-out. The truth is you probably have realized your general idea of 'anyone who disobeys my religion is evil/sinning/bad and must burn' is incoherent and wrong, and you at least realize that there is no way you can prove to me you are right, so you just tell me to 'do my own research'. And find what, exactly? I already know quite a bit about the Christian idea of sin. It's just divine command theory. Do what the religion says or you're evil. Not that complicated, and also wrong.

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