Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) Forums

[jamesbond]

Here is a video by Sandman (the same guy who ripped into Winston's website and happier abroad philosophy) on the idea of MGTOW.

[MarcosZeitola]

MGTOW's aren't real men, they are closeted homosexuals who are throwing away their genes. A waste of time and resources. Escapists, escaping from a potentially enjoyable life by having a miserable life, and lying to themselves that it is somehow awesome.

They're not to be admired, they are to be pitied. I hope their movement dies out soon.

[lasttry]

Interesting discussion.

I visited some of the MGTOW forums and they are indeed cesspools. But the men aren't closet homos. Rather they are hyper-masculinized, in the Taoist sense that masculine=yang=mind, feminine=yin=body. In other words, they are out of touch with their bodies. Which is why there is all this obsession with how women look, especially their faces, rather than how they feel and smell, which is what sex is really about. Actually, there is also a lot of excess concern with the visual sense in this forum.

Appearance is important for two reasons. First, because it gives insight into any underlying health issues, but that is a minor factor in modern societies. Second and more importantly, because it reflects personality. Obesity is horrible because it shows that the person is self-destructive and undisciplined, not because it is hideous in itself. In a society where famine was a regular occurrence, obesity would be beautiful because famine kills a lot quicker than diabetes, heart disease etc. But in modern society, there is little risk of famine. Or, if you really are worried about famine, just store a years worth of food in a closet. Wearing a year's supply of food on your body is crazy, which is why I avoid fatties. I also avoid women who look skanky or whose ugliness is a reflection of an underlying personality issue.

Does anyone here hate their pet dog or cat because it is fat? Does anyone judge pets primarily on facial appearance? Mangy skin, patchy fur, missing limbs, uncontrolled drooling or diarrhea, horrible smells--sure these are reasons to get rid of a pet. But who cares about slight differences in facial appearance.

Sex is ultimately about the lower senses of touch and smell, especially the latter, which goes right to the base of the brain. If you don't like how a person smells, you will be revolted by sex with them. Vision is of small importance during sex, which is best done with the lights out. Sound is of some importance, though as with vision, the only voices that should be truly grating are those which reflect health or personality problems. Someone who categorizes women as 1-10 based on physical appearance or the sound of their voice, as opposed to categorizing go-nogo, is being overly finicky IMO.

----------

I don't necessarily see a problem with MGTOW guys engaging in endless bitch fests, since there may be a grand scheme behind this bitching. It is hard not to think about sex when you are young, but modern marriage often sucks for men. So it makes perfect sense for a guy in his 20's to spend years living in mom's basement, slowly piling up his savings so as to break free of the system, and bitching on internet forums so as to avoid being tempted into a disastrous marriage with a skank who is going to rape him in divorce court a few years later. I didn't do that in my 20's, because there was no internet then, and I didn't get a home computer to use with AOL and the bulletin boards until about 1990, but I did engage in a lot of self-pity parties and private bitch sessions. All part of a grand scheme to bide my time while preparing my escape.

Now that I'm retired and vasectomized and too old to realistically contemplate marriage, the danger from women is mostly past, so no need to avoid them. But I also don't feel any need to taunt people in their 20's for doing what I did at their age.

Also, I don't quite understand advocating MGTOW. Sure, it is in my interest for all the other men to quit pursuing women so the field will be open to me, but on the other hand is also in my interest to encourage other men to marry and have children and then pay child support to raise these children, so there will be a new generation to pay my social security. The latter consideration is probably the more important of the two. Guys whose children will be paying for my social security are the ultimate chumps in the game of life. (As for my supposedly precious genes, 99.9% is for things like the construction of cells, the lives and other organs, etc. Do I really identify with my liver versus some other guys liver? Not really. Maybe .1% at most determines things I do identify with like physical appearance and low-level personality traits, and that .1% could be re-evolved very quickly if there really is something valuable about my appearance and low-level personality.)

Based on my experience, money plus masturbation = good life, while no money plus abundant partner sex = shitty life. Anyone who thinks men only pursue money to get women needs to spend some time in a homeless shelter. Maybe then they'll understand the true value of money. Not that these are the only choices, since money can buy partner sex in poor countries. But it makes perfect sense to me for MGTOW to be prioritizing getting money over getting sex.

[Billy]

Lasttry, I think the 1-10 categorizing has it´s disadvantages but more advantages. It´s a system where you can be closer to your targets. Important is to follow your system. I think aesthetic is more important than you describe it. It´s like with love and your favourite popstar there happens to be a connection even without touch and smell which of course are even more important but aesthetic is very important too. It makes the brain connect to the other brain.

Yesterday an old women lured me to sex (32) though I am 41. Then she said that she is to ugly for me. Maybe she was right. It´s ok at least I helped a women who is alone and has two kids. But I needed then I girl which could push my buttons. One of the buttons is her aesthetic which is just wonderful. It´s like I could watch her for hours. That´s the power of aesthetic and face.

The sex was not important at all. I loved her beauty and her naturality.

[lasttry]

I can admire women as objects of beauty too. But I also admire lots of other things as objects of beauty, like animals and mountains and other natural objects. I don't want to have sex with these other objects, however. A woman can be very beautiful and also unsexy. In fact, most beautiful women are unsexy to me. Partly this is because I see these women as impossible for me to actually have sex with, but mostly it's because I just don't react sexually to visual stimula very strongly.

"Me so horny", "I need a man to touch me", "I'm lonely and want sex", "I've been wanting it and wanting it and none of the men I meet are willing to give it to me"--words like this are what turns me on. Those only place I read or hear those words are in the email in my spam folder, where I read them all the time. I don't think that email is written specially for me, so evidently I'm not the only man who is really turned on by women who want sex and say so. My impression that most women are narcissists nowadays. All they do is stare at themselves in the mirror or post selfies of themselves to facebook. The only reason they want sex is so they can post that on their facebook wall, not because they actually enjoy the act itself.

I know being turned on by words seemingly contradicts my statement that touch and smell are most important. But actually, what happens is the words are a trigger for me to look at the woman more carefully and make a go-nogo decision based on appearance. I'll then need some more information to make a go-nogo decision based on personality. The go-nogo decision on touch/smell has to wait until later. Not that I actually respond to this spam (gmail routes it directly to the spam folder which I never look at), but that would be how I would react to a true indication of interest from a woman using words like I wrote above.

Whereas a beautiful woman who doesn't make it clear that she wants sex badly does absolute nothing for me. No more than a beautiful photo of nature.

[Billy]

lasttry, ok, I understand what you mean. You do not look at it from general point of view but from your experience and your environment. Then I have to say that was also my experience. Without indications of interests it makes no much sense to invest energy to think about these womens.

In my new life where I experiment with p4p the girls give IOI´s at least the ones I answer. The real lookers are to expensive but I had one who was really beautiful and sweet. The point is she is reachable at she makes it look at least passionate. Now I am in Asia so reachability is a very different factor than somewhere else.

Do you have experience with asian girls and GFE? In our age is Asia almost the last option.