Can you stay in Thailand long term without a tourist VISA?

[Voice of Reason]

I stayed there on a 1 year ED visa. It was expensive, but marginally cheaper than a business visa. My costs went up because I had to do a visa run to Malaysia to get the visa stamped.

Older dudes can get retirement visas.

The rules will be tightened in the coming years, no doubt about that.

How did you get that? And what were you studying?

Also, you stayed in China for so long on tourist VISA, right? Is that still possible?

Where are you now anyway? Still in Farangland?

[Voice of Reason]

yeah the thailand option is getting less attractive. one thing to the ed visa: one can also join a muay thai scholl. i read generally studying thai culture in a school works for ed visa.

Sounds like a good option...I've wanted to learn Muay Thai.

[Yohan]

So basically they want you to just go there a short time, blow your money, and then piss off back to your own country.

If you want to stay there long term because living expenses are cheap and you like the country, then you're not welcome.

This is a good summery of the situation in a few sentences. Just my opinion.
Tourists are expected to pay for their stay with foreign money and to leave after a few weeks in general.

The problem is that Thailand gives foreigners very little options about other visa permits.

Thailand was even reluctant to introduce a retirement visa and later on very reluctant to create a spouse visa.
You are now welcome if you are 50+, retired and bring your own money. (baht 800.000,-)
Please keep in mind, no work allowed and no medical insurance while in Thailand.

You are also welcome, if you are married with a Thai national, but only if you bring some money with you (baht 400.000,-) and you will get a very basic minimum health insurance on request. NO working permit included in a spouse visa!

Working permit: Thailand is not much into offer working permits, even foreigners in foreign companies in Thailand in higher position complain about hassles, like delivering of blood tests etc. - Maybe best to try it with a Thai Ltd. Company. and a foreigner (=you!) as managing director and at least 4 employees and 3 Thai shareholders.

Land: Foreigner cannot buy any land, married or not does not matter. Do not believe too much in company ownership, as there are plenty of legal loopholes if such a company-contract is done between a married couple = marital common assets which might override the shareholder commercial laws.

On the other side you have also to consider the situation of Thailand. It is not because of Western foreigners, but of Asian neighbors. Thailand is full with legal and illegal people from China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Nepali, etc. etc.
These Asian people without any qualification and very poor often overstay their permits for many years, or are moving in-out over decades and are truly nothing which might qualify them as 'tourists'.

[Yohan]

In order not to pay, Cambodia will work best. Business visa there is like 25$ or something for one year. Back-to-back ok.

Really? When I was there 10 years ago a business visa on arrival was $25 for 30 days and then extensions were ~$140 per six months depending on which agent you used.

As far as I know, all together, visa + extensions + a paper declaring 'business related activity' + fees for offices doing this applications for you + tips etc. etc. is about USD 400,- per year in Cambodia.

[Cornfed]

In order not to pay, Cambodia will work best. Business visa there is like 25$ or something for one year. Back-to-back ok.

Really? When I was there 10 years ago a business visa on arrival was $25 for 30 days and then extensions were ~$140 per six months depending on which agent you used.

As far as I know, all together, visa + extensions + a paper declaring 'business related activity' + fees for offices doing this applications for you + tips etc. etc. is about USD 400,- per year in Cambodia.

I expected it would go that way. 10 years ago I got my 6 month extension through the school I was temporarily working at for the cost price (no agent fee), which was $90. No one cared about whether you actually had a business back then.

It is understandable that Asians are cracking down on Western immigration. There is no reason anyone should want to be infested with the impoverished refugees from Failureland. Another indicator that the happier abroad window is closing.

[Yohan]

It is understandable that Asians are cracking down on Western immigration. There is no reason anyone should want to be infested with the impoverished refugees from Failureland. Another indicator that the happier abroad window is closing.

The way out is now 'marriage' or at least quickly to find a Thai woman who is willing to get pregnant - if the foreign man has nothing, Thai women cannot take anything away from him anyway. No child support in Thailand. A Thai wife and/or a Thai child fathered by a foreign guy is OK for Thai authorities to let him stay in Thailand but only if he makes a deposit of baht 400.000,- in a Thai bank and with a guarantee letter from the Thai wife/Thai girlfriend/mother. He will get even a minimum health insurance.

However with a spouse visa etc. he depends solely on the good mood of the Thai wife/mother, he has to follow her and to do whatever she tells him. In case of divorce or in case her Thai boyfriend takes over the responsibility for the child, the foreign man will find himself without valid visa on a local bus to Bangkok airport. Going home, case finished.

Cambodia has already age-difference regulations and minimum income regulations to prevent such marriages. Thailand still has no restrictions, but I am sure they will also do something about it.

To answer the question of the OP if you can stay in Thailand longterm or not, yes you can stay, but either you have money and are 50+, or money and can prove a real business. Otherwise you depend widely on the good mood of your Thai wife and their relatives.

To crack down on tourist visa travelers is therefore not really a good step forward to get rid of such pennyless Westerners, as they will find any Thai family willing to sponsor them, at least for a while.

[Cornfed]

However with a spouse visa etc. he depends solely on the good mood of the Thai wife/mother, he has to follow her and to do whatever she tells him.

That sounds too much like a Western marriage to me. The man would probably end up as a miserable jerk like Patrick Shaw.

[Yohan]

Haha, this is true.

'Jonathan' (or Patrick or whatever might be his name) is now cleaning aircon in Northern Thailand, after he finished to remove the rats out of the swimming pool of his brother in law.

He is now the houseboy and driver of the Thai family working for free, the laughing stock of HA.

He wrote this about his daily life a few years ago:

The swimming pool has been allowed to fill with rainwater and turned into a stinking swamp filled with dead rats and a load of frogs etc.
I'll have to see if I can get the pump running in order to drain it and clean it.

And now? He wrote this on his 'forum' just a few days ago:

This place is crawling with snakes this month, some of them very dangerous. They're even getting into the AC compressors and I had to clear this one in the middle of the night last night as it was banging the case as it flew around with the fan blades, making a noise. I haven't been able to identify it as there was nothing left of it's head and I can't really make out the markings on the rest of it's body.

The stink of rotting animal wafted into the kitchen this afternoon, so I was dispatched to investigate. This was stuck firmly in the fence nearby. I guess it died quite a painful death, now a feast for the ants. Snakes really are all over the place this month, this one a non venomous 'ngoo singh' according to my brother in law. A serious threat to rats, well, used to be in this one's case. This variety can get quite big. . .

In his little time off he is sitting with a computer in the rice-field and is creating BBC spoof pages for his next 1st April hoax.
What a sad loser..

Happier abroad?

[Jester]

Haha, this is true.

'Jonathan' (or Patrick or whatever might be his name) is now cleaning aircon in Northern Thailand, after he finished to remove the rats out of the swimming pool of his brother in law.

He is now the houseboy and driver of the Thai family working for free, the laughing stock of HA.

He wrote this about his daily life a few years ago:

The swimming pool has been allowed to fill with rainwater and turned into a stinking swamp filled with dead rats and a load of frogs etc.
I'll have to see if I can get the pump running in order to drain it and clean it.

And now? He wrote this on his 'forum' just a few days ago:

This place is crawling with snakes this month, some of them very dangerous. They're even getting into the AC compressors and I had to clear this one in the middle of the night last night as it was banging the case as it flew around with the fan blades, making a noise. I haven't been able to identify it as there was nothing left of it's head and I can't really make out the markings on the rest of it's body.

The stink of rotting animal wafted into the kitchen this afternoon, so I was dispatched to investigate. This was stuck firmly in the fence nearby. I guess it died quite a painful death, now a feast for the ants. Snakes really are all over the place this month, this one a non venomous 'ngoo singh' according to my brother in law. A serious threat to rats, well, used to be in this one's case. This variety can get quite big. . .

In his little time off he is sitting with a computer in the rice-field and is creating BBC spoof pages for his next 1st April hoax.
What a sad loser..

Happier abroad?

Not immediately clear why being a part-time pool-boy in Thailand, living rent-free, is so bad. Some guys might consider that a decent gig.

But anyway, is this guy -- whom you refer to as a "loser" -- a member here on HA?

[Yohan]

Not immediately clear why being a part-time pool-boy in Thailand, living rent-free, is so bad. Some guys might consider that a decent gig.
But anyway, is this guy -- whom you refer to as a "loser" -- a member here on HA?

I would not call him a 'member'.

viewtopic.php?t=22571&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It depends what you are looking for in your life. I myself could not feel relaxed and sleep well, if I am the houseboy of my wife, who is telling me I have to clean the swimming pool of her brother, because it's full with dead rats, frogs and snakes.

I also could not feel comfortably with the ex-husband of my wife living next to me while on a spouse visa and taking care of his child. I also could not feel secure without a working permit living abroad and depending financially on the mercy of my Thai wife and her family members who can kick me out anytime of their house and land.

from his own comments:
I love my stepdaughter as though she is my own, but I am her stepfather and she maintains a good relationship with her biological father. I don't feel threatened by that at all. I actually get along with him well these days and we recently had dinner together.

Part-time pool boy? Nice choice of words. But for how long could you do this job? As we all know, this works nice for a while, but we are all getting older, we cannot work for always - do you want to live like that, without any financial security, without owning anything up to the end of your life expecting that the others take care of you and give you something to eat?

Jonathan has now also other problems...

He is living in a zone full of earthquakes....

http://www.bangkokpost.com/most-recent/ ... rally-safe

People of 17 villages in Mae Suai sub-district of Mae Suai district in Chiang Rai province are in fear after cracks appeared in a local mid-sized dam and aftershocks continue after the big earthquake in...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/4 ... chiang-rai

Since the earthquake with a magnitude of 6.3 on the Richter scale on May 5, there had been 1,146 aftershocks up until Tuesday, including 23 quakes with magnitudes ranging from 5.0 to 5.9 on the Richter...

It must be nice to live on an active fault near Myanmar border.... there is always something to do for carpenters and bricklayers.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... 9b-zvmSzmt


About the topic of this thread,

Can you stay in Thailand long term without tourist VISA?

Yes sure, you can... but...

[green1976]

Don't see any fundamental problem with the restriction that you can't stay more than 6 months per year on turist visa.
I never invested money in Thailand and i don't plan to do.

We are foreigners..we have money we are welcomed..great place to f**k..to have fun but another story to build something.

It's better now because things are clear so some stupid guy will tinks twice before buying numerous houses to their sweathearts or dreaming to live in Thailand.

Do you guys have money to stay let's say one year without working back home?
I don't and if i had the opportunity i won't shed any tears because Thailand don't want me to be there all the year with a tourist visa.
I just take my luggage and spend the rest of the time in Cambodia or the Philippines.

By the way i'm busy to definitely leave France to Panama,so i don't have the time and money to stay more than 6 months in Thailand and if i could i would just move around.

A good occasion to discover neighbouring countries..plenty of welcoming women for sure.

[Yohan]

Don't see any fundamental problem with the restriction that you can't stay more than 6 months per year on turist visa.
I never invested money in Thailand and i don't plan to do.

We are foreigners..we have money we are welcomed..great place to f**k..to have fun but another story to build something.

It's better now because things are clear so some stupid guy will tinks twice before buying numerous houses to their sweathearts or dreaming to live in Thailand.

I agree with you.

I see no problem with up to 6 months max. per year as a tourist. Many countries have a similar restriction, a person living longer than 6 months cannot be considered as a tourist anymore and has to leave the country for the next 6 months.

Thailand has an old rule, never really enforced, about 90 days, then out 90 days, and come back again for 90 days, out again for 90 days.

Thailand is - understandable - against illegal foreigners, who show up with no money, claiming they are tourists and moving over the borders in and out over many years. What are these foreigners doing in Thailand? How do they arrange their life without any working permit, any retirement allowance?

Thailand is not bad for retirement and/or marriage, and if you have some money they will give you 1-year permit, extendable easily and you can buy your condominium-unit in your name as a foreigner.

Otherwise I see no reason why a foreigner should invest something in this politically unstable country.

It does not make any sense to buy for a Thai family a large house on residencial land and paddy fields on agricultural land, and machinery and so on and so on.

To live somewhere in a remote Thai rural area, where your Thai relatives can kick you out anytime, does not make any sense. It is risky.

I recommend if you want to live there, take your Thai lady and live with her in your condominium-unit registered only in foreigner's name BEFORE marriage.

In case of troubles, she has to move out of your home. The condominium-unit will always be yours.
The Thai property law is very strong and override shared marital assets regulations in case of divorce.

A foreigner cannot own any land in Thailand, only a condominium-unit if certain requirements are fulfilled.

In case of political troubles be ready to move over the border, keep your savings always outside of Thailand.

This is my advice, might be others think differently, but I think better safe than sorry.

[Jester]

FWIW I just ran across this site with some interesting detail about Thai Visas.

Please note that its info is from BEFORE the recent tightening that Scott Mallon (AmericanInBangkok) has described on his YouTube channel.

Anyway I liked the attention to detail on this site i found, so here it is:
http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-ed ... ailand-p21

[xiongmao]

I stayed in Thailand on an ED visa. You can still get them for around 23,000 baht a year but the authorities may (or may not) question you to see that you're actually learning Thai.

Not a problem if you're interested in learning the language, but I decided Thai had no value for me, and besides I was somewhat burnt out of studying after learning Chinese for several months.

I did meet some working class farangs who spoke excellent Thai - that really impressed me. But you gotta love Thailand a lot to put in that sort of commitment.

If you're getting married and want kids just be aware that you have pretty much no rights in Thailand. Strangely a foreigner with a Chinese wife has a lot more rights. China has its problems, but they're actually quite fair on foreigners with Chinese born dependents.

[Yohan]

If you're getting married and want kids just be aware that you have pretty much no rights in Thailand.

In case, if you are legally married in Thailand (registered marriage and not only a ceremony in a temple):

Father's rights, while living in the same house with your Thai wife with your own children or children from her from a previous marriage are very strong. - Children have to follow and child protection services and anti-spanking laws are weak or non-existing in Thailand.

However in case these are not your children, the biological father, the ex-husband of your wife, can object to passport issues and to transfer these children to abroad, because they are also his children.

About custody rights of these Thai children, there are many cases where custody rights were given to the ex-wife and the foreign husband, if claimed in court. - It depends on the divorced couple what they really want. Some ex-husbands insist the children should stay with them and their follow-up wife after divorce - but there are many Thai men, who are happy to get away from all and everything after divorce.

There are 2 sides of the story, while fathers after divorce have no rights, they have also no obligations, as there is no child support and no visitation right in Thailand. The father just walks away, finished, and the next husband will take over. Thai law is quite similar to Japan.

In Western countries the position of the father is much worse than in Asia. In USA, fathers are merely walking ATMs after divorce. Child support payments are enforced, but visitation rights often ignored by the ex-wife. No payment of child support and you will find yourself in jail. Child support payments are often misused for anything else and not for the child.