Ajushi's version of my 3 point comparison: US vs. Abroad

[Winston]

Hi all,
Check out Ajushi's version of my 3 point comparison on the home page. He expanded it a bit with his way of putting it.


"Winston,

I have written a proposed edıt of your 3 point comparison. I thought Id send ıt to ya and see what ya think. I added some stuff from my experience and edıted some things to make ıt seem holistic ın my estımatıon.

I hope ya like ıt

1. There is no sense of human connection in America. An "ice barrier" exists between strangers. Every man is an island. People are paranoid and strangers don't talk to each other unless it's business-related. Most don't even know their neighbors. One feels alone in crowded places. Groups are non-inclusive and do not overlap naturally. People act superficial and are difficult to connect with. Trying to meet people feels awkward and unnatural.

2. Dating and relationships are a total nightmare for men. Trying to get female dates is the most unnatural thing in the world. Women are conditioned to despise men and see them as fools, creeps and predators. They are not feminine or sweet and they often act lıke men are an annoyance and treat them lıke a distraction or a fool. Being defensive, unapproachable and paranoid, they often harbor a psychological resistance to relationships with men. They also carry an off the chart sense of entitlement and a man can not please them no matter how hard he tries or how considerate he is, and the harder he tries, the worse this can get. The male/female dynamic is totally out of whack. Men do not feel wanted or needed, and their niceness is used against them. There are more dateless males than anywhere else in the world and ıt ıs very easy for a man to go months or years at a tıme wıthout even a gırlfriend, much less achieving the goal of marriage and a family. Values of family and the institution of marriage and relationships have mostly disintegrated from the society, including most church communities, except for what is rumored in some rare churches and families.

3. The culture undermines your self-worth and sanity. It conditions you to feel inadequate, insecure and unworthy. The sheer lack of deep, supportıve connections with people or the sheer amount of time spent alone can eat away at a person psychologically. You wind up filling your void by living to work, developing extreme hobbies commonly referred to as 'Passions' (they rarely have these in healthy societies, where people have a social life and a close family) and consuming endless junk, most commonly in the form of junk food and television. Thıs emotional consumption, fueled by loneliness and loathing, is the real reason why Americans are so much more obese than any other society, even though the food is so much worse in places lıke Europe, where chocolate, meat, and pastries are the real staples of the diet.

The social culture is like a fake mask that doesn't allow you to "be yourself". Many act phony to compensate for their inferiority complexes and people tend to have this attitude that it is not OK to have problems or to talk about them, you just need to be more positive and inspirational and try harder. All this fragments one's psychological wholeness.

Another thing that commonly and understandably occurs then is that people have a very high tendency to start thinkıng they need to fix themselves and may become obsessed wıth all manner of 'self development' ranging from meditation, to self help books, to therapy, or they may wind up on anti depressants or antipsychotics (anti anxiety drugs) on the premise that there is something wrong with them and they need to be fixed. An alarmingly high segment of the population is very seriously into one or more of these things. News flash: You don't need any of that!


In many overseas countries:

1. There is a natural sense of social connectedness. The social environment is more open and inclusive. It is easy and natural to meet and connect with others, to the extent that it can be mind blowing to a person in their first time outside of the US. There is an instant familiarity between strangers rather than an "ice barrier". Friendships are truer. A camaraderie exists that you don't find in America. In just a week or two, you can easily meet a whole network of new friends who treat you like a long time friend of 10 years would treat you in the US. The idea of eating alone or living alone is considered depressing and unusual.

The social vibe tends to feel at least in some aspects like how the people are described in the book of Acts in the Bible. Open, inclusive, kind and generous. People are automatically invited into people's homes and lives and they will regard you as a friend. People tend to share food, give generously and without expectation, and share equipment if engaged in a common activity, and they do this even with people they have never met. People wıll touch each other freely and public display of affection and various forms of human contact in general is normal. There is a general appreciation for the basic human need for touch, companionship and quality time with people.

2. Dating and relationships are more natural and healthy. Females look/act feminine, and are sweet and modest. They even smile back at men and giggle/blush, and are more approachable and easier to meet. Men and women provide support and companionship for one another. Men feel valued, appreciated and wanted. Niceness counts. Being kınd and well intended goes a long way. People tend to be family oriented far beyond the comprehension of the typical American standard and not just in ideas, but in daily practice of how they live out their lives, in relationships, and in marriage.

3. You feel accepted, whole and good about yourself. The "real you" is allowed to flourish amidst a natural sense of wholeness. You do not need to act "fake" or develop inferiority complexes. It ıs totally normal and socially accepted to be authentic and tell it like it is. People will readily open up about stuff that a person ın the US may keep to themselves for their whole lives. This frees and empowers everyone to accept their own inner struggles and recognıze that there ıs nothing especially wrong or different about them from anyone else, and to support one another."

[Free]

Most of us here know this to be spot on accurate unfortunately.
The only way we can better our lives is to be honest and truly see problems how they really are.

Sadly though, I have begun to see more and more as this not just a US vs rest of the world issue, but more as creeping into a West vs the rest of the world issue.

To further explain, while I would certainly choose Europe over the US for social relations, as I currently enjoy more daily relations in Europe than I would for months of desert time in the US, I also over the past few years, see more of the US type negatives in Europeans as well.
Considering how most of us are at the forum in regards to the female concerns in some form or another, I refer to the females in Europe taking on more and more of the awful feminism for example, independence, loss of traditional ways, etc.. Even places in the south of Europe which have been known to be more "warmer", seem to be getting "colder".

You can also witness this in parts of latin america as well. It really has been over the recent few years. I might wager it has something to do with daily growth of mass communication, mainly the internet. You have much more media and ideas being shared. This can be a downfall to a culture. Hard to really blame the economy, as even poor countries that have always been poor seem to be changing in their mentality.

So is this really a West issue and not just a US, Can., UK, Aussie one? I'm beginning to think so. Thankfully there are still some pockets in the world that are still traditional and more balanced.
Although you can see this "virus" edging into those areas as well.

Maybe it's just a global bug destined to spread all over. You hear reports from guys from all over, be it the former soviet union, eastern europe, southern europe, latin america, south east asia, etc of how the women and the cultures are changing, for the worse unfortunately. More like US-ways. But really, I think it's not such a US thing, but rather an uglyness of the dark side of people. Selfishness, pride, independence, greed, lack of responsibility, spoiled nature, etc. Maybe the world is drifting more away from their religious-based cultures and simply becoming more carnal, more sinful. I don't know.

Things really are changing in the world.
Can be discouraging as we try to simply find a decent place to go and some decent females to be with.

Just my .02 observations. What do you guys think?

[Think Different]

I think it's a very good observation, Free. Just take a look at the most industrialized nations and the negative birth rates in those places. Abortion on demand has become the battle cry amongst women now, and it's taking a heavy toll on societies and their overall mental state. Aborting children for "convenience" sake sears the soul and the mind and it's been my experience that many, if not most women never really recover from it. They then seek to fill the void of motherlessness with toys and junk and materialistic/demanding lifestyles.

[BellaRuth]

To further explain, while I would certainly choose Europe over the US for social relations, as I currently enjoy more daily relations in Europe than I would for months of desert time in the US, I also over the past few years, see more of the US type negatives in Europeans as well.
Considering how most of us are at the forum in regards to the female concerns in some form or another, I refer to the females in Europe taking on more and more of the awful feminism for example, independence, loss of traditional ways, etc.. Even places in the south of Europe which have been known to be more "warmer", seem to be getting "colder".

You can also witness this in parts of latin america as well. It really has been over the recent few years. I might wager it has something to do with daily growth of mass communication, mainly the internet. You have much more media and ideas being shared. This can be a downfall to a culture. Hard to really blame the economy, as even poor countries that have always been poor seem to be changing in their mentality.

So is this really a West issue and not just a US, Can., UK, Aussie one? I'm beginning to think so. Thankfully there are still some pockets in the world that are still traditional and more balanced.
Although you can see this "virus" edging into those areas as well.

...What do you guys think?

Totally agree.

I am of the strong view that this is nothing to do with Anglo 'culture' per se but the way the world is moving in these modern times, becoming more antisocial and focused on independence, selfishness and greed.

I live in the UK, obviously an Anglo-based culture, but the social problems similar to those described are recent and not inherent. I talk a lot to older people (Im only 24) about the differences socially between then and now and in past times people were more open, as in the second list of comparisons.

This is similar to countries we are close to as well, such as France, Germany and Spain. I have been to these countries and know a lot of people from other countries in Europe and hear the same story about society is changing there, particularly in the richer areas and cities. People become less inclusive. Never been to America but I imagine this is happening on a greater scale and has been for longer. Also, not to sound anti-American (could I on this forum anyway?) but I think most of our problems come from the new American media and culture, the Americanisation of our old countries. In the past we relied more on our own media. I grew up as a kid on homegrown cartoons pretty much and the only American show I remember watching at all was Friends. Now we have a lot of imported shows like the Hills, Desperate Housewives etc. We even have news on Kim Kardashian and Lindsay Lohan in our newspapers although they mean NOTHING to Brits who aren't even sure why they are famous but recognise their names after being bombarded with them every day. So everywhere's becoming Little America.

Although I am young I have seen this change for myself in my own lifetime. I have grown up in some of the most rural, poor areas in my country and get a massive culture shock sometimes when I go to certain areas here. I still find it easy to just go up and talk to people, to be included and make friends, but there's certainly a difference in where I do this, and there are groups of people who are very aloof and in cliques. These people are the type who get into the American fame/money media gorging as well.

If I was to make a recommendation to anyone here I'd say go somewhere that's not too Americanised, is not focused on wealth, and has a traditional culture. Hopefully they will stay like that for at least another 50 years?

[Enishi]

The Americanization of the entire world is a very depressing subject.

I remember reading somewhere on this forum that many areas of Brazil, particularly Rio, are no longer a good place to visit to meet women. The thought of every corner of the globe becoming infected by shitty American media fills me with dread.

My only hope is that some areas will start to improve again as the virus runs its course. Perhaps in a couple decades places which are popular expat destinations will become the new 'America' while the virus in America itself starts to die off.

[Winston]

Bella, do you find the UK and other places being less socially open and relaxed now, true for men and women? I mean, as a pretty girl, the men in your country are much more open to you, than the women, right? You can walk up to any guy and he will talk to you usually, right?