Are Russian (and Ukrainian/FSU) Women Really an Option?

[Merlin]

Hello all. New to this Forum, and interested in foreign women for the same reasons as everyone else.

I'm wondering whether Russian -- and Ukrainian women etc. -- are really an option for North American guys.

Here's why. When I look at the numerous dating sites the photos of the women are gorgeous. Elena's models -- yeah, they really look like models! Well, you seen them all.

But, when I look at the tour photos it's a whole different story. You can look at tour after tour and not see a woman that you'd like to date never mind marry. I'm sure these woman are nice people, but most of them would have a hard time dating in North America. They aren't exactly model quality (there are a few exceptions, I know).

So why would the beautiful ones confine themselves to the computer, and not go out and meet the guys who actually have the resources and balls to travel to Russia or wherever to meet with them in person?

Also, if you use Cherryblossoms, most of the Russians who get on that site are total scammers; they're just too obviously not legit.

On the other hand, I do know of a guy on a disability pension who connected with a Russian woman, went over there to meet her, stayed at her apartment, and is working on bringing her and her kids back here. He is a complete loser and a**hole so perhaps there is hope for guys who are not...

Any comments?

I'd love to connect with a foreign woman who would be young, beautiful, not wind up divorcing me etc., but am afraid that this may just be wishful thinking on my part.

[gmm567]

Russia probably isn't the place to go. There are far too many visa whores.

My sense is the philipines is a different story. Divorce wasn't even recognized in the law except recently. The woman are raised in a culture where they don't divorce!

[Winston]

That's the problem. Most of the really good Russian women are plain looking. The hot ones are hard to get and have a really bad attitude.

Thus, I'd rather have a hot asian woman than a plain looking unattractive white woman.

Here in the Philippines, everyday I'm tempted by a new girl that I have a crush on who wants to get with me. I swear!

It's almost better not to be committed sometimes, when you have so many choices.......

Thus, being attached here, even to someone perfect for you, can become a hell. lol

[Guest]

IMO FSU women are not a realistic option for the average guy.

I would say to take the risk of marrying one you need to be wealthy and have a good lawyer!

If you went to live in the FSU as a foreigner you may have a better chance of a successful relationship with a Russian woman, however that presents problems of it's own (language, culture etc.).

I have never married a Russian women, nor do I claim to be an expert on Russians, however I once dated a Russian lady, have spent a fair amount of time in the FSU and I have some good friends that are Russians (male & female).

IMO the general Russian character / behaviour is complex (especially if they have not had much exposure to western culture). Russians women behave and see things differently. Here are some examples in my experience:

- The majority are looking for a wealthy man, or most commonly; a passport to the west.

- Russian women are very naive and have unrealistic expectations of western men and western lifestyle. They seem to think their life will instantly become paradise once they move to the west. They do not seem to realise that the west has problems too, including high living costs.

- If you are dating them, they will expect you to pay and want you to buy them what they desire. If you cannot afford their desired luxuries or refuse then they consider this as weakness or stinginess. On the Russian dating sites you will notice in many of women's profile they want their man to be "generous". Once given a taste of western culture they become very greedy and snobbish very quickly.

- I have a Russian male friend who has been married to a Russian woman since their late teens. During their marriage his wife has physically assaulted him on many occassioins, and threatened suicide, mostly because she does not get everything she wants. My friend is now only 29 and has to put up with all this bullshit. Keeps saying he is going to divorce her but they are still together

I could go on but you get the picture.

[Winston]

Good observations. However, I've never met a Russian woman who asked me to bring her to the US, oddly enough.

Here is my list of pros and cons of Russian women that I wrote up long ago:

The pros and cons of Russian women, according to me

In my view, here are the pros and cons of Russian women based the strong patterns I've experienced and observed. Not all of them have both of the pros and cons below of course. Some have more of the pros and others have more of the cons, to varying degrees. But the more you know and get involved with Russian women, the more these patterns below become prevalent and repeat consistently.

Pros:

- They are among the most beautiful women in the world. They look very feminine, skinny, have top-notch taste in clothes, and know how to look good. Unlike American women, they know how to maximize their looks with skirts and high heels. Modern American women, on the other hand, tend to dislike wearing skirts nowadays, unless they are city girls.

- Not only are they beautiful, but very approachable, sociable, communicative, and inclusive to strangers as well. They are very comfortable with talking to strangers, and they really enjoy meeting new people, especially foreigners. It is so easy to get dates in Russia and make friends, that one can never really be lonely. Russians in general are very inclusive of strangers, and very likely to invite them somewhere or spend time with them. In fact, it is hard to find time to be alone in Russia, as privacy is not as respected as in the West.

- They have a modest sweet disposition that makes you more comfortable around them, and makes them more approachable. It’s a pleasant, refreshing difference from the self-righteous “I don’t need you� attitude of modern Western women.

- Russian women tend to be very curious by nature, so curious in fact that they will even go out with guys they aren't really interested in, just out of curiosity (though not usually more than once or twice, especially if the guy they aren't interested in starts trying to get intimate).

- They are very intelligent and educated, have a good knowledge of history (more so than Western women for sure), and usually speak more than one language. Usually German is their second language, which many speak even better than English for some reason. (No one really knows why though, and it's strange that German, a country that killed millions of Russians, would be so popular in Russia.)

- They enjoy compliments, are easy to flatter, and are impressed when a guy is persistent in his love for them.

Cons:

- They tend to be more greedy than women of the rest of the world, in several ways:

a) They are not ashamed to ask a man for presents or money. (Not all Russian women do this, but more Russian women have asked me for things, than ever in my whole life anywhere else. Guaranteed. There is no arguing or rationalizing it away.)
b) Unlike American or Asian women, they will gladly take presents (even if they are expensive) from a man they aren't interested in and don't really like. Though American women are not as approachable to strangers and are more paranoid of them, they won't usually accept gifts from a man they aren't interested in, even if they want the gift. That's because Russian women LOVE to take, and have no shame in it, but in fact are proud of it.
c) They don't see a balance between taking and giving. And they strongly prefer taking over giving. Comparatively speaking, American women try to keep a 50/50 balance between taking and giving, with their partner, and Asian women prefer to give more than take. But Russian women are the opposite, for they strongly prefer taking more than giving. I have hundreds of examples to prove this, even from simple everyday events in Russia, and people I know who have lived in Moscow for 9 years or more agree with this too.
d) They have a clear hypocrisy and double standard in this area as well. Russian women are very economical and frugal with THEIR own money, but if you are a foreign man, you are NOT allowed to be economical or frugal with YOUR money around them. If you are, they will call you "greedy" and look at you with this hypnotic gaze that tries to induce guilt and shame in you. It's kind of creepy, but I've had that hypnotic shame-inducing gaze directed at me many times, and it is powerful indeed. But afterwards, I am repulsed by it for it is very manipulating in nature.

In short, they don't like to spend their own money, but they LOVE spending other people's money. This is very sad but true. I wish it wasn't true though.

But nevertheless, it is a CLEAR double standard. If you confront them about this, though will not try to logically defend it, but instead become angry and defensive, claiming that as women, they have a "right" to be economical, ungenerous and expect men to be generous to them. They see it within their right to have a "taker mentality" which they see no shame in.

In fact, they are infamous for constantly putting you in situations that require you to spend money. And sadly, many Russian women judge a man by how freely he spends and how generous he is, rather than by his personality or character.

In Russia, a man can be economical, (and they have to, as not everyone is super rich) as long as he doesn't APPEAR to be economical. Deep down, they don't wish to spend all their money either, but they can't let the women see that. Russian men have tactful ways of getting around this. They may hide their money and show an empty wallet, or look for excuses not to go to places where they will have to spend a lot of money.

- They have an unusual morbid desire to receive presents. It's kind of shallow I know, but somehow they get off on it like an acid trip or drug. In fact, when I'm at a store or mall with a Russian girl, I can sense that her thoughts are "Why doesn't he offer to buy me a present? When will he do so? Why doesn't he? He should!" which makes me feel awkward and uncomfortable.

The problem though, even if you’re a nice man, is that buying a Russian woman a present isn’t going to satisfy her desire for them. Instead, it will only fuel her desire for them more, as she will ask and expect more and more without end. That’s how desire works in human nature. Getting your desire doesn’t end them, but in fact makes them grow even more. (e.g. if you won a million dollars right now, you’d be happy for a while, but it wouldn’t be long before you thought “wouldn’t it be nice to have ten million dollars, I could do so much more with ten million!�) Therefore, nothing good comes out of it, unless you like being an eternal sugar daddy.

- Though they are feminine, they are not romantic and don't believe in the concept or romance, deeming it to be of a child's fantasy, and unrealistic. They don't even like romantic or tender men, but instead prefer big strong men with money, strength, and power. Rather than do something romantic on a date, they prefer to do something that involves spending money (not theirs of course, but the man's). Deep down, they are cold, hard, strong willed, untrusting, cynical and pessimistic (though they are playful and fun-loving as well). And not to cross the line, but during sex they have a reputation for being robotic and unfeeling (as depicted in the movie "The Birthday Girl" with Nicole Kidman).

- They are so stubborn and strong willed, that they will never admit that they are wrong or apologize for their mistakes. Even if you show them every reason and fact that they were wrong, they will not admit it. That cold, resilient willpower of theirs (the same one that defeated Hitler and Napoleon) will never succumb. They'd rather argue for hours or even destroy the relationship, than admit that they were wrong.

- And sadly, they are very changeable and don't stick through thick and thin. In fact, the divorce rate in Russia is very high, arguably the highest in the world, somewhere around 60 to 70 percent depending on the study you read. Some studies show that divorce in Russia is even higher than in America (though other sources dispute it). But regardless, they may get with you fast, but they can leave you fast too, and often coldheartedly. In fact, this study found Russians to be the quickest to marry and quickest to divorce: http://www.divorcereform.org/nonus.html It seems as though Russians don't tend to honor fidelity and commitment. Often, such virtues are merely lip service. Therefore, I wouldn’t exactly bank my hopes on finding a long term mate there of good marriage material. It’s possible of course, just difficult.

Conclusion:

Based on the pros and cons of Russian women that I listed above, I conclude the following. Russian women and I do have a great natural chemistry in our communication styles and personalities. They like my personality (though some of them tell me that I am cute, I don't really buy it) and my communication style jives well with theirs. Russian women and I have a lot in common - we love to laugh at silly corny things, we are easily amused, we are very curious by nature, we love meeting new people, we are comfortable talking to strangers, we are pessimists who know how to have fun, we love travel and foreign cultures, we love history and literature, we love trying new things, we love to flirt, etc. They love my silly sense of humor, laugh easily, and are easily amused. And they enjoy my flirting, flattery, and the way I charm them, which works well with them.

However, when it comes to conflict in personal values, it starts to create a rift between us. I am economical and frugal, and I don't believe in being judged by how "freely" I spend or how "generous" I am. (and I can't just be generous once, I have to generous constantly without end or limit for them) I also am big on fairness, and don't agree with the double standard that they can be stingy with me, but I cannot be frugal around them. That's a pet peeve with me. I don't believe in the relationship of me being a total giver while them being a total taker. I also despise that they are so ungiving toward me, and won't do much to help me or try to make me happy. Like them though, I am also very strong willed and stubborn, and hence I don't easily compromise on my values either.

Now don't get me wrong. I am giving and generous, especially to those I like or love, but what Russian women want is too one-sided for me. In my home society, people don't take something without trying to offer something in return (e.g. money, gifts, services, favors, affection, etc). But in Russian female mentality, they strongly want to take without the balance of at least trying to offer something in return.

Around them, when they want me to spend money or pay for something I don't want to, I am caught between a rock and a hard place - on one hand if I refuse to spend a lot or buy what they want, then they will call me "greedy" and look at me with angry shame-inducing gazes. But on the other hand, I can't just do whatever they want and give them everything they want either. There has to be a line. I can't just surrender all my resources to their will, or else my vacation will end shortly and I will have to fly back home (and no, usually they won't even be a good friend and let me stay over their place if I can't pay for a hotel). Plus, even if I did, I'd feel like I'm sacrificing my self-dignity, which would be a shame to myself. So either way, I lose. I hate such situations.

They are also not as romantic as I want women to be, nor as gentle either. And, I don't know if it's my looks or race, but they aren't as passionate toward me as I am toward them when it comes to sex. So I often feel unfulfilled and unsatisfied with them. But they seem very open and uninhibited with regard to touching, rubbing, and kissing more so than Western women are to me. I do notice though that they don't tend to like Asian men that much, even though they may deny it and say race doesn't matter. Perhaps in Eastern Russia, which is more Asianized, it's different, but my experience has to do with Western Russia.

And of course, with such an unusually high divorce rate, arguably the highest in the world, it’s unwise for me to invest my heart and emotions on finding a life partner there. It’s possible of course, but very difficult and against the odds.

Therefore, in conclusion I'd have to say that my chemistry with Russian women is mostly a surface chemistry and behavior, rather than a soulful chemistry, bond, or connection. So I'd have to conclude that in short, Russian women are good for short term fun, but not for long term relationships.

[TopSpruce]

Therefore, in conclusion I'd have to say that my chemistry with Russian women is mostly a surface chemistry and behavior, rather than a soulful chemistry, bond, or connection. So I'd have to conclude that in short, Russian women are good for short term fun, but not for long term relationships.

Damn. I came to the same conclusion. This wisdom was on here before I even went to the FSU and I never noticed it. Was I blind?

I have to use the search function more and look up this stuff. Wow, people on here like Winston and Ladislav have a lot of good information to share.

[Tsar]

- Though they are feminine, they are not romantic and don't believe in the concept or romance, deeming it to be of a child's fantasy, and unrealistic. They don't even like romantic or tender men, but instead prefer big strong men with money, strength, and power. Rather than do something romantic on a date, they prefer to do something that involves spending money (not theirs of course, but the man's). Deep down, they are cold, hard, strong willed, untrusting, cynical and pessimistic (though they are playful and fun-loving as well). And not to cross the line, but during sex they have a reputation for being robotic and unfeeling (as depicted in the movie "The Birthday Girl" with Nicole Kidman).

Based on pictures of couples I've seen there does seem to be romance. In the xhamster movies and things like that the girls don't seem robotic.

Some sites discussing romance or sex

http://www.returnofkings.com/4194/why-r ... e-the-best
http://www.cindyagency.net/talktorussiangirl.htm
http://forum.fiance.com/forum2.asp?Main ... picid=2613
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... s-sex.html
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... women.html
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... women.html

[jtest28]

Therefore, in conclusion I'd have to say that my chemistry with Russian women is mostly a surface chemistry and behavior, rather than a soulful chemistry, bond, or connection. So I'd have to conclude that in short, Russian women are good for short term fun, but not for long term relationships.

Damn. I came to the same conclusion. This wisdom was on here before I even went to the FSU and I never noticed it. Was I blind?
I have to use the search function more and look up this stuff. Wow, people on here like Winston and Ladislav have a lot of good information to share.

LOL me too! This post was made less than two weeks before my trip to Ukraine and I didn't see it. Oh well, at least I got to see Ukraine. I always wanted to do that.

[lasttry]

Pros:
- They are very intelligent and educated, have a good knowledge of history (more so than Western women for sure), and usually speak more than one language. Usually German is their second language, which many speak even better than English for some reason. (No one really knows why though, and it's strange that German, a country that killed millions of Russians, would be so popular in Russia.)

Maybe they speak German so well because of several years experience working at German brothels.

[Jester]

Therefore, in conclusion I'd have to say that my chemistry with Russian women is mostly a surface chemistry and behavior, rather than a soulful chemistry, bond, or connection. So I'd have to conclude that in short, Russian women are good for short term fun, but not for long term relationships.

Damn. I came to the same conclusion. This wisdom was on here before I even went to the FSU and I never noticed it. Was I blind?

I have to use the search function more and look up this stuff. Wow, people on here like Winston and Ladislav have a lot of good information to share.

TopSpruce thanks for bumping this excellent thread!
What are your plans now?

[roteiro]

Ukrainian and Russian girls are very nice indeed. They are so lovely and smart. If you want to date some of them, I'll recommend you bridge-of-love - cool dating website with Russian and Ukrainian girls to date or marry. My friend has met a love of his life there and he is very happy. Good luck you too

[TopSpruce]

Therefore, in conclusion I'd have to say that my chemistry with Russian women is mostly a surface chemistry and behavior, rather than a soulful chemistry, bond, or connection. So I'd have to conclude that in short, Russian women are good for short term fun, but not for long term relationships.

Damn. I came to the same conclusion. This wisdom was on here before I even went to the FSU and I never noticed it. Was I blind?

I have to use the search function more and look up this stuff. Wow, people on here like Winston and Ladislav have a lot of good information to share.

TopSpruce thanks for bumping this excellent thread!
What are your plans now?

I'm reading a lot of positive stuff on the Philippines and Asia.

[Winston]

- Though they are feminine, they are not romantic and don't believe in the concept or romance, deeming it to be of a child's fantasy, and unrealistic. They don't even like romantic or tender men, but instead prefer big strong men with money, strength, and power. Rather than do something romantic on a date, they prefer to do something that involves spending money (not theirs of course, but the man's). Deep down, they are cold, hard, strong willed, untrusting, cynical and pessimistic (though they are playful and fun-loving as well). And not to cross the line, but during sex they have a reputation for being robotic and unfeeling (as depicted in the movie "The Birthday Girl" with Nicole Kidman).

Based on pictures of couples I've seen there does seem to be romance. In the xhamster movies and things like that the girls don't seem robotic.

Some sites discussing romance or sex

http://www.returnofkings.com/4194/why-r ... e-the-best
http://www.cindyagency.net/talktorussiangirl.htm
http://forum.fiance.com/forum2.asp?Main ... picid=2613
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... s-sex.html
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... women.html
http://russian-ukrainian.blogspot.com/2 ... women.html

Those don't seem like unbiased sources. Most of the Web is entertainment and most content is politically correct. Most people believe that you are only allowed to say positive things online about any culture. Otherwise you must be a loser if you complain or say anything negative. Political correctness also teaches that a positive lie is better than a negative truth. Most people abide by that.

Roosh did not write that article in his blog. I think roosh had negative things to say about Russian women.

Of course if you're a hot guy then Russian women will treat you better. So if you are more attractive you will have better experiences. Russian women care about looks too.

I was told that you have to go to a Russian village or small town if you want to meet Russian girls with traditional good values. But even then they will be mostly plain girls. Not hot ones.

I would say try Uzbekistan because the girls there are more generous and giving and kind.

Most Russian girls I met were not bad. They just wanted free dinners and a chance to practice their English. Nothing more. They were neutral, not good or bad.

I don't understand why a Russian girl can't just take you to her place and cook for you and play a board game and have wine by the fireplace and then make love or have sex? That would be very romantic and cost nothing.

But instead they always want to take you somewhere where you have to spend money and get no sex out of it. Thus giving you blue balls and leaving you dissatisfied.

Why is romance shown in the movies but I can't get it in real life? That's what sucks the most.

Why can't I just have wine by the fireplace with a beautiful woman and then make love afterward instead of arguing about money with them?

[Winston]

Most Russian women are not gonna ask you for gifts or a visa to the west. They are just gonna use you for free dinners and practice their English with you and do some culture exchange. Nothing more.

There's nothing wrong with that. Men should pay for dinner. That's customary in most countries. But if you are horny then this will get boring after a while.

Still it's better than nothing and better than getting no dates. Plus it's nice to be in the company of girls who are sweet and down to earth, not fake and bitchy like in America.

Also they are always happy to show you around and take you to museums and historical monuments around town. Russian women appreciate history and culture so they are proud to do that. So at least you will get a free tour guide out of them, as long as you pay for their meals and transportation of course.

To find a girl that really likes you, you will have to date lots of girls or use a marriage agency. It's kind of like pulling a slot machine many times. The good news is that in Russia the girls are so approachable that you can pull the slot machine handle as many times as you want. Fate is a factor too and so is luck. Some guys get luckier than others.

That's exactly what I did. I pulled the slot machine many times by approaching many girls, and played it like a numbers game, which was fun, but I ended up getting only plain girls to like me, which I wasn't attracted to.

I did find a beautiful gem at the end as I was leaving Russia, but it was too late by then, which was the usual Murphys law type of luck that I get.

[MrMan]

I had a conversation with a Russian woman who lives in this city. My wife met her somewhere and invited her to some kind of party. Anyway, she was telling me how she met her husband. He went to Russia to find a wife. He'd been corresponding or had met with one woman, but she'd accepted a proposal from someone else. So he hired this other woman to be his tour guide and interpreter for two weeks and then proposed after two weeks. For some reason, she accepted. She was reasonably nice looking and seemed to have a sweet disposition.

IMO, it's generally not a good idea to meet someone in that type of situation and propose so early, but they'd been married for several years. Maybe they were doing okay.