An experience with Ukrainian women similar to mine

[traveller_37]

Why do you need a third party to meet women? I think this makes the whole dating and marriage thing non natural. Why don't you just do most of the leg work yourself?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. When you want to meet women in the Ukraine then you use a dating website, and these are owned by dating agencies. When you arrive, the agency and their affiliates organise the introductions for you. Or did you mean that I go to a nightclub or bar and meet women that way? I was travelling alone and don't speak Russian so I figured that going through an agency was a better idea so to meet women who were looking for a serious relationship with a foreign guy. There were a few genuine ones but often I felt I was wasting my time.

[traveller_37]

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

I think it also depends on your job and financial status so that the woman feels it would be worthwhile for her to relocate to another country, and that you are both able to communicate with each other without relying on a translator.

Yea, I'm British. A few of the women I met said that with the right guy they would consider living in United States, France or the U.K.

[ssjparris]

I find the Filipinas hard to beat as well and that is why I spend most of my time in the Philippines as does Winston. No harm in that, but the conversation here is about Ukrainian girls, so let's stay the course and use Filipinas as a comparison only.

I congratulate the young traveler for actually trying to learn the language and some culture before going ( unlike some other travelers on this board who may think it is beneath them) . However, one needs to keep in mind that, unlike in the Philippines, an English speaking, former US colony with so many people wanting to get back into the fold of the former colonial master, Mother America through marriage to a Mr. American, the Ukrainians have no such desire for the most part, because well, they love their country. They fought for it, died for it and well, they love it. Just like Americans love their country for the most part. The country's connection to the US is minimal and people just, well, do not fall all over Americans as do many poor Filipinas who grew up on Hollywood movies and who have 30% of their family in the US already.

The second factor is that Ukraine is full of very good looking guys who treat girls quite well, unlike Russia where men treat women like crap. The economy is doing well, and getting better and it seems that, the only reason a girl would want to marry an American or any foreigner is, well, because of money and since life is not so bad in Ukraine now, it has to be a lot of money.

Think about this- how many American gals would love to leave the US by marrying a foreigner ( who can speak only rudimentary English) ? Probably not many because well, they love their country and they love their own American guys. Now, what if a foreigner is a Prince of Monaco or an Arab Sheikh with a trillion dollars in the bank. Possibly, they will do so. Quite a few ladies would, no questions asked because that is worth their while, don't you think?

Now, what if you go to Ukraine to live and work and learn the local language and the local dialect of Russian which is very different from what they speak in Russia in many ways and try and do things on their terms, hold parties, sing their songs and tell jokes the local way? Be introduced through local guys to local girls at parties. Ah, well, that is another story you see. Guys who do that seldom fail. I know of Arabs who are there and they are very happy. They have oodles of friends and have girls to last them a life time. You see, they did things the local way, the Ukrainian way. Probably because they too, love the country and its people and respect its traditions and not just think about how they can benefit themselves by getting some E European p...y just because they are Americans.

And also, while in the US the culture fosters confidence, it also gives young people an overinflated view of themselves. How about, when in Ukraine, you walk up to the mirror and take a good look at yourself and see how well you stack up against a good looking local guy of whom there is a plenty. While many Filipinas dream of mixing their brown blood with a former colonial master no matter how old, fat and ugly he is so that the kids will have higher noses and whiter skin and so that they family would now have a bit more than $70 a month that a local guy can provide, Ukrainian girls have no such needs. They want good looking guys who are fun to be with. The local way, that is.


Like these guys?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAsfQVeo ... re=related
Otherwise, well, you guys better have enough money to make ladies interested in you or well, head for the Philippines like I do.

I agree with Macdaddy Ladislav. You have to speak their language. ukrainian and russian love to hear american people speak and learn their language. know their culture, sing their sings, and joke the russian or ukrainian way. yeah man. but....

if your a handsome black man perpare to be AMAZED !!!!!.

[polya]

Its hard to say if wife hunting in the Ukraine is a bust, but if you don't do your research it might be a bust!


Traveller, I highly suggest RU Adventures for advice and research though some of the members are a bit gruff, its still a good place to learn.

As for stats according to the Congressional study from 2005 about 2,000-3,000 men a year. Or as many sites/agencies put it about 3-5% of the men that start looking online.
NO NO NO NO, STATICTICS SHOW LESS THAN 10% OF FOREIGN BRIDES ARE STILL LIVING IN THE USA AFTER 12 MONTHS OF ARRIVING - WHAT A DISGRACE.

I understand your frustration with this. Its not easy, its mentally draining and time consuming. Many believe the pool of women in Ukraine is a bit tainted, making it hard to find a woman. IMHO it shouldn't take more than two trips. For many it doesn't take more than two. Anybody that goes several times, I think the problem is them and not the women available.

NO NO NO NO, YOU ARE BLAMING THE MEN! THE ANSWER IS NOT TO VISIT THE UKRAINE BUT TO LIVE THERE AND START A LIFE, GET A JOB, STUDY, SHOP... SO YOU MEET MANY WOMEN IN NORMAL LIFE (AWAY FROM AGENCIES). Internet dating is not effective as most women won't be on the net. IF YOU CAN'T/WON'T DO THIS, THEN YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ALMOST ALWAYS WON'T FIND A LOVING WIFE.

Having said that, you may want to speak to Mark and read his book. It seems he's working hard to find sincere women, when many other places don't bother with that. I might also recommend any of the US ran services like Eduard's, though its pretty expensive (About 20K) his success rate is very high as he gets women from outside the agency loop in Russia and walks you through the process. I would also recommend Kiev Connections, another agency ran by an American and Kherson Girls, yet another agency ran by an American.

OK, THIS SOUNDS LIKE GOOD ADVICE.

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

[djfourmoney]

Its hard to say if wife hunting in the Ukraine is a bust, but if you don't do your research it might be a bust!


Traveller, I highly suggest RU Adventures for advice and research though some of the members are a bit gruff, its still a good place to learn.

As for stats according to the Congressional study from 2005 about 2,000-3,000 men a year. Or as many sites/agencies put it about 3-5% of the men that start looking online.
NO NO NO NO, STATICTICS SHOW LESS THAN 10% OF FOREIGN BRIDES ARE STILL LIVING IN THE USA AFTER 12 MONTHS OF ARRIVING - WHAT A DISGRACE.

I understand your frustration with this. Its not easy, its mentally draining and time consuming. Many believe the pool of women in Ukraine is a bit tainted, making it hard to find a woman. IMHO it shouldn't take more than two trips. For many it doesn't take more than two. Anybody that goes several times, I think the problem is them and not the women available.

NO NO NO NO, YOU ARE BLAMING THE MEN! THE ANSWER IS NOT TO VISIT THE UKRAINE BUT TO LIVE THERE AND START A LIFE, GET A JOB, STUDY, SHOP... SO YOU MEET MANY WOMEN IN NORMAL LIFE (AWAY FROM AGENCIES). IF YOU CAN'T/WON'T DO THIS, THEN YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND ALMOST ALWAYS WON'T FIND A WIFE.

Having said that, you may want to speak to Mark and read his book. It seems he's working hard to find sincere women, when many other places don't bother with that. I might also recommend any of the US ran services like Eduard's, though its pretty expensive (About 20K) his success rate is very high as he gets women from outside the agency loop in Russia and walks you through the process. I would also recommend Kiev Connections, another agency ran by an American and Kherson Girls, yet another agency ran by an American.

OK, THIS SOUNDS LIKE GOOD ADVICE.

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

Well actually its 8% of the K1's stay in country after 12 months.

Yes I blame SOME MEN, how come I can't do that? You can do it within a year and without living in Ukraine and you can do it without ten trips....

If I wanted to marry Larisa I could have.... That took ONE trip.

As I said, I like to keep these sort of conversations general but clearly I am starting to see some trends.

As a White Man you have competition, quite a bit of it. Not only from your own country but from Western Europe and not to mention local men. It is no longer totally advantageous to be an American. You do have some advantage, as many women want to relocate here to improve their chances of pursing a career among other things.

You need to be a Man, put your muthafucking foot down and tell her what you want and what's going to happen, even if your not totally sure yourself.

You don't need to go on tour, you don't need to live in Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan or whatever. You need to make a plan to see woman and then about a month or a few weeks before you leave, jump on the internet and line up your dates. Some women are going to flake, that's why you need to get as many women as you can squeeze as you can in the time you'll be there.

Before you leave, you want a commitment in place. No promise rings or any of that bullshit. But you want the woman contacting you without being prompted.

The next time you see her, you will have a ring and a one way plane ticket set for the date of her INS/State Dept Interview. If she accepts this lovingly you're HOME FREE.

Its REALLY not that hard. But you have to be forceful and direct.

At least that's how I see it.

[polya]

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

I think it also depends on your job and financial status so that the woman feels it would be worthwhile for her to relocate to another country, and that you are both able to communicate with each other without relying on a translator.

Yea, I'm British. A few of the women I met said that with the right guy they would consider living in United States, France or the U.K.

WHOA! What do you mean "it also depends on your job and financial status...[so its] worthwhile to relocate" - OMG - do you want a gold-digger? This is a disasterous attitude - you need to think in terms of living in her country with her for some years. Its that simple.

[polya]

Its hard to say if wife hunting in the Ukraine is a bust, but if you don't do your research it might be a bust!

You need to be a Man, put your muthafucking foot down and tell her what you want and what's going to happen, even if your not totally sure yourself.

You don't need to go on tour, you don't need to live in Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan or whatever. You need to make a plan to see woman and then about a month or a few weeks before you leave, jump on the internet and line up your dates. Some women are going to flake, that's why you need to get as many women as you can squeeze as you can in the time you'll be there.

Before you leave, you want a commitment in place. No promise rings or any of that bullshit. But you want the woman contacting you without being prompted.

The next time you see her, you will have a ring and a one way plane ticket set for the date of her INS/State Dept Interview. If she accepts this lovingly you're HOME FREE.

Its REALLY not that hard. But you have to be forceful and direct.

At least that's how I see it.

OMG, if it was this simple, every man on here would have a wife by now. In reality, it DOESN'T work this way. But the biggest problem for me is I'm the one spending money & time visiting her - she puts little effort into it & could just take my money in various scams while I'm there. Also, there's many pitfalls for a foreigner in her country - no-one would have a conscience about stealing money from a "rich tourist"

[have2fly]

OK, my 2 cents here.

For one: how do you know who is a gold-digger bitch and who is not? Translator will not help you with that. Man, I mean no one will help you. The girl herself would not even know how to treat you. You have to be at least somewhat real - when you are 55 and girl that is sitting on your lap is 22, what do you think she wants? Night clubs, expensive cars and fashion. Of course not all girls are that way, but KEY is to UNDERSTAND the culture - for Eastern Europe looks and status is everything! That's the way the society is made at the moment and probably will be in the nearest future. Finding a girl who is over that is hard, but very possible. I tend to explain these things to girls who are "fresh-off-the-boat" that their short skirt and high heels in the U.S. look slutty and nasty, but in Russia or FSU it is a normal style for everyday casual. Another thing - some girls always stay shallow-minded - they need show-off, fashion and bling-bling - similar to ghetto chicks in the U.S. actually! Some change, some grow out of it, some come from rich families and are tired of that, some are possible to change into normal way of thinking by showing them that most important is relationship, love and emotional connection etc. Many understand that, some change, some don't.

Two - how do you figure it out? How do you know which girl is immature gold-digging status-crazy whore? And who is just trying to look sexy in front of you? YOU DON'T! Especially by being foreign and just visiting, relying on agencies to find you a girl. THINK - who are those girls that go to marriage agencies? Yea, at least 50% of them will be gold-diggers.

Three - that's why I always write - go and live in FSU-Eastern Europe, if not language - learn the culture at least! By that time you will also date some girls and know who is who in some way etc.

Four - the older get, the more I tend to understand women from FSU, it comes with experience and maturity as well. Girls I have dated were never pure shallow gold-diggers. Yeah, I ran into some FSU chicks that said: "Huh, you are not driving a Porsche? You're not my type." And I am glad they did! Right away they showed how shallow and dumb they are because I could have enough money to buy a Porsche or I could have a Maserati in my garage as a weekend car, but they are too shallow to even care, so f**k them! Move on! But again - I know the culture, I can do it, I can see through bullshit. Can you?

So don't blame the country or women. Just their looks is already million times better than American women, but finding a smart woman was always a challenge for men throughout the history.

One Russian joke I recently heard (not so good in translation, but right on topic):
-Young guy likes a girl. He came up to her and told her that he would like to date her. She asks him:
- Do you have 2 mercedes-benz?
- No
- Do you have a villa with two floors?
- No
- We're done talking! See ya!
Young guy comes to his father to ask his advise. Father:
- Well son, what can I say. You can sell your Rolls-Royce and buy 2 mercedes-benz, but cutting two floors off your house because some girl asked you to do so is not worth it.

Again, this joke sounds much better in Russian, but I hope you get the idea. This also fits American girls' mentality - they judge you right away by looking at you for a few seconds.

[The_Hero_of_Men]

OK, my 2 cents here.

For one: how do you know who is a gold-digger bitch and who is not? Translator will not help you with that. Man, I mean no one will help you. The girl herself would not even know how to treat you. You have to be at least somewhat real - when you are 55 and girl that is sitting on your lap is 22, what do you think she wants? Night clubs, expensive cars and fashion. Of course not all girls are that way, but KEY is to UNDERSTAND the culture - for Eastern Europe looks and status is everything! That's the way the society is made at the moment and probably will be in the nearest future. Finding a girl who is over that is hard, but very possible. I tend to explain these things to girls who are "fresh-off-the-boat" that their short skirt and high heels in the U.S. look slutty and nasty, but in Russia or FSU it is a normal style for everyday casual. Another thing - some girls always stay shallow-minded - they need show-off, fashion and bling-bling - similar to ghetto chicks in the U.S. actually! Some change, some grow out of it, some come from rich families and are tired of that, some are possible to change into normal way of thinking by showing them that most important is relationship, love and emotional connection etc. Many understand that, some change, some don't.

Two - how do you figure it out? How do you know which girl is immature gold-digging status-crazy whore? And who is just trying to look sexy in front of you? YOU DON'T! Especially by being foreign and just visiting, relying on agencies to find you a girl. THINK - who are those girls that go to marriage agencies? Yea, at least 50% of them will be gold-diggers.

Three - that's why I always write - go and live in FSU-Eastern Europe, if not language - learn the culture at least! By that time you will also date some girls and know who is who in some way etc.

Four - the older get, the more I tend to understand women from FSU, it comes with experience and maturity as well. Girls I have dated were never pure shallow gold-diggers. Yeah, I ran into some FSU chicks that said: "Huh, you are not driving a Porsche? You're not my type." And I am glad they did! Right away they showed how shallow and dumb they are because I could have enough money to buy a Porsche or I could have a Maserati in my garage as a weekend car, but they are too shallow to even care, so f**k them! Move on! But again - I know the culture, I can do it, I can see through bullshit. Can you?

So don't blame the country or women. Just their looks is already million times better than American women, but finding a smart woman was always a challenge for men throughout the history.

One Russian joke I recently heard (not so good in translation, but right on topic):
-Young guy likes a girl. He came up to her and told her that he would like to date her. She asks him:
- Do you have 2 mercedes-benz?
- No
- Do you have a villa with two floors?
- No
- We're done talking! See ya!
Young guy comes to his father to ask his advise. Father:
- Well son, what can I say. You can sell your Rolls-Royce and buy 2 mercedes-benz, but cutting two floors off your house because some girl asked you to do so is not worth it.

Again, this joke sounds much better in Russian, but I hope you get the idea. This also fits American girls' mentality - they judge you right away by looking at you for a few seconds.

Does the same thing hold true for older Russian/Ukranian women?

[have2fly]

Does the same thing hold true for older Russian/Ukranian women?

What does? Some older women would hit the clubs too, of course. Don't over-think my previous post. Just remember that some girls are gold-diggers and some are not. And some girls used to be gold-diggers before they found a decent guy because some women, even good women, were treated badly, so they just use men until they find a right one.

The point was to explain that Ukraine is not Asia, culture is not that easy to understand and "read-through". I do read-through, you don't. No, I am not trying to get anyone jealous here, I am just saying learn it, go live there, read books, take a Russian class at your local college etc.

[traveller_37]

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

I think it also depends on your job and financial status so that the woman feels it would be worthwhile for her to relocate to another country, and that you are both able to communicate with each other without relying on a translator.

Yea, I'm British. A few of the women I met said that with the right guy they would consider living in United States, France or the U.K.

WHOA! What do you mean "it also depends on your job and financial status...[so its] worthwhile to relocate" - OMG - do you want a gold-digger? This is a disasterous attitude - you need to think in terms of living in her country with her for some years. Its that simple.

It's NOT a disastrous attitude, it's a realistic one. And it's based on experiences of my previous trips to Ukraine. It's NOT always a 'gold-digger'; it can occasionally be a more genuine woman who simply prefers a man with a level of professional status and can provide a higher level of financial security. I couldn't tick all the boxes which was not to my advantage. Would I want to live in Ukraine for some years? After having had two trips there and having looked at the job market and general living standards I'm not so sure I would want to work there longer than a few months, and I don't think the woman would expect me to either.

[frontier]

OK, my 2 cents here.

For one: how do you know who is a gold-digger bitch and who is not? Translator will not help you with that. Man, I mean no one will help you. The girl herself would not even know how to treat you. You have to be at least somewhat real - when you are 55 and girl that is sitting on your lap is 22, what do you think she wants? Night clubs, expensive cars and fashion. Of course not all girls are that way, but KEY is to UNDERSTAND the culture - for Eastern Europe looks and status is everything! That's the way the society is made at the moment and probably will be in the nearest future. Finding a girl who is over that is hard, but very possible. I tend to explain these things to girls who are "fresh-off-the-boat" that their short skirt and high heels in the U.S. look slutty and nasty, but in Russia or FSU it is a normal style for everyday casual. Another thing - some girls always stay shallow-minded - they need show-off, fashion and bling-bling - similar to ghetto chicks in the U.S. actually! Some change, some grow out of it, some come from rich families and are tired of that, some are possible to change into normal way of thinking by showing them that most important is relationship, love and emotional connection etc. Many understand that, some change, some don't.

Two - how do you figure it out? How do you know which girl is immature gold-digging status-crazy whore? And who is just trying to look sexy in front of you? YOU DON'T! Especially by being foreign and just visiting, relying on agencies to find you a girl. THINK - who are those girls that go to marriage agencies? Yea, at least 50% of them will be gold-diggers.

Three - that's why I always write - go and live in FSU-Eastern Europe, if not language - learn the culture at least! By that time you will also date some girls and know who is who in some way etc.

Four - the older get, the more I tend to understand women from FSU, it comes with experience and maturity as well. Girls I have dated were never pure shallow gold-diggers. Yeah, I ran into some FSU chicks that said: "Huh, you are not driving a Porsche? You're not my type." And I am glad they did! Right away they showed how shallow and dumb they are because I could have enough money to buy a Porsche or I could have a Maserati in my garage as a weekend car, but they are too shallow to even care, so f**k them! Move on! But again - I know the culture, I can do it, I can see through bullshit. Can you?

So don't blame the country or women. Just their looks is already million times better than American women, but finding a smart woman was always a challenge for men throughout the history.

One Russian joke I recently heard (not so good in translation, but right on topic):
-Young guy likes a girl. He came up to her and told her that he would like to date her. She asks him:
- Do you have 2 mercedes-benz?
- No
- Do you have a villa with two floors?
- No
- We're done talking! See ya!
Young guy comes to his father to ask his advise. Father:
- Well son, what can I say. You can sell your Rolls-Royce and buy 2 mercedes-benz, but cutting two floors off your house because some girl asked you to do so is not worth it.

Again, this joke sounds much better in Russian, but I hope you get the idea. This also fits American girls' mentality - they judge you right away by looking at you for a few seconds.

You really don't know the culture very well. It is not "look" it is PERCEPTION. Most Russian and Ukrainain women do not want a man that is of low financial status. This holds for all foreign women. What is the point for them to take a risk and leave their country to a big unknown. It is gambling. Now if a man is dressed like shit, well he won't get anything. If he is dressed decently, then it is becomes another story. Now there is fine line between being dressed decently and dressing all GQ or driving some porsche. Only the gold digger/scam crowd of women want those men and those women are meant to get beaten up. The most important thing is one has to be educated and show that they are not a typical village idiot. That is the way to win.

[have2fly]

You really don't know the culture very well. It is not "look" it is PERCEPTION. Most Russian and Ukrainain women do not want a man that is of low financial status. This holds for all foreign women. What is the point for them to take a risk and leave their country to a big unknown. It is gambling. Now if a man is dressed like shit, well he won't get anything. If he is dressed decently, then it is becomes another story. Now there is fine line between being dressed decently and dressing all GQ or driving some porsche. Only the gold digger/scam crowd of women want those men and those women are meant to get beaten up. The most important thing is one has to be educated and show that they are not a typical village idiot. That is the way to win.

Sure thing, I am Ukrainian and I have no idea about the culture LOL. Keep on trolling. I feel bad for feeding the troll actually.

Would you just grow up and understand that I am a part of FSU culture myself? What you are writing is observation, what I am writing is a look of an insider. Of course, some American dude who talked to my girls knows more than I do Yeah, right!

You're dumb enough not to realize that many women get married and move to the U.S. without knowing where the hell they are going and what kind financial situation her American fiancee has. Women even marry grocery store employees sometimes just to move to the U.S., they also see it as a "prestige" to have an American husband sometimes. Again - due to Hollywood brainwashing that all American guys are the best.

Dressing up in very expensive clothes is totally normal in EE or FSU. Some people would stay hungry, but buy the best clothes, even if they are not rich. Now it becomes a problem in the U.S. because if you are dressed very fashionably, everyone will consider you gay. Same goes for women - if a Russian girl will wear high heels and short skirt in the U.S. during a day - everyone will consider her a slut.

No woman in the sane mind wants a loser, only American women get excited with a loser guy who treats her like shit and get bored with decent men.

[frontier]

You really don't know the culture very well. It is not "look" it is PERCEPTION. Most Russian and Ukrainain women do not want a man that is of low financial status. This holds for all foreign women. What is the point for them to take a risk and leave their country to a big unknown. It is gambling. Now if a man is dressed like shit, well he won't get anything. If he is dressed decently, then it is becomes another story. Now there is fine line between being dressed decently and dressing all GQ or driving some porsche. Only the gold digger/scam crowd of women want those men and those women are meant to get beaten up. The most important thing is one has to be educated and show that they are not a typical village idiot. That is the way to win.

Sure thing, I am Ukrainian and I have no idea about the culture LOL. Keep on trolling. I feel bad for feeding the troll actually.

Would you just grow up and understand that I am a part of FSU culture myself? What you are writing is observation, what I am writing is a look of an insider. Of course, some American dude who talked to my girls knows more than I do Yeah, right!

You're dumb enough not to realize that many women get married and move to the U.S. without knowing where the hell they are going and what kind financial situation her American fiancee has. Women even marry grocery store employees sometimes just to move to the U.S., they also see it as a "prestige" to have an American husband sometimes. Again - due to Hollywood brainwashing that all American guys are the best.

Dressing up in very expensive clothes is totally normal in EE or FSU. Some people would stay hungry, but buy the best clothes, even if they are not rich. Now it becomes a problem in the U.S. because if you are dressed very fashionably, everyone will consider you gay. Same goes for women - if a Russian girl will wear high heels and short skirt in the U.S. during a day - everyone will consider her a slut.

No woman in the sane mind wants a loser, only American women get excited with a loser guy who treats her like shit and get bored with decent men.

In America, most women are fat, so I don't think it is good if they wear a short skirt and high heels. As for men's fashion, as I said, wearing expensive clothes for men is many times not practical. Now if a man wears a $200 shirt when he can get the same exact shirt at $50, then he is gay. It depends on your job and time. One of my early jobs was working in an industrial setting, so I was not going to wear my best clothes on that day of work. Now when I started making money in a different job, then I upgraded my attire.
Now men do have to dress appropriately during certain time and not dress like a bum becaue no girls in EE like that because the sloppy or college frat look never works with EE women. As for women, you have to realize in America, the hot women do not dress sexy because of puritanical values and because of the mentality of "a man should like me no matter what I wear." Also, American culture is emascualted so, the gays also are involved in making sure most women are ugly in an attempt to draw men into gayness.

In SOME cases women in FSU women get duped and marry some grocey clerk type guy. Yes a grocery clerk in USA makes more than many engineers working in FSU. However, in most cases the girls in Eastern Europe don't want some umabitious man because that represents low class culture and lazyness. I respect them more for wanting a man with ambition than wanting some drunkard loser that thinks life is all about MTV. For younger American women, they like those type of low class men because low attracts low class.

[polya]

AFA's tours do work, its just a question of the sincerity of the women and how good a judge of character you are. You mentioned pounds are you British?

It's NOT a disastrous attitude, it's a realistic one. And it's based on experiences of my previous trips to Ukraine. It's NOT always a 'gold-digger'; it can occasionally be a more genuine woman who simply prefers a man with a level of professional status and can provide a higher level of financial security. I couldn't tick all the boxes which was not to my advantage. Would I want to live in Ukraine for some years? After having had two trips there and having looked at the job market and general living standards I'm not so sure I would want to work there longer than a few months, and I don't think the woman would expect me to either.

But poor Ukranian women marry poor Ukranian men everyday, so why should she expect a foreign man to be something she is not and local men are not? If she can't work in the USA to help pay back her husband for bringing her over, then don't bring her to the USA. Considering only 8% of foreign wives stay in the USA after one year - you've got a 92% chance of failure - another reason not to bring her to the USA. Silly US men thinking "everything will be fine" will just be taken for a ride by scheming Ukranian women. Don't say I never warned you after she runs to your local Police saying you beat her....