Old Foreigner in the Phillipines

[publicduende]

Before I respond to this, I want to make it clear that I'm a youngish guy (30s) in the Philippines. My "circle" in the Philippines consists of my wife's friends, many of whom are highly educated professionals, business owners, and politicians. My wife and her friends are/were very open to dating foreigners, but nobody would go over 40 in terms of age (some wouldn't even go over 30). So what's been possible for me may not be possible for someone twice my age.

Nice post and reply, @Maverick. You clearly came to the Philippines with the dual advantage of being young and single, and with a gameplan most foreigners just don't have, at least not at the beginning. Most of "us" foreigners who land here are socially awkward, incel or divorced, traumatised or stressed out by life events and in need for healing. Going from sexually starved to getting laid 3 times a day, maybe with different girls, is a rush most men cannot handle rationally. I admit it happened to me, too. I wanted more and more, quantity over quality. I had some savoir faire with the ladies and got addicted. Meeting 3 different girls every week was like shooting fish in a barrel.

It took me about 2 years to reset myself and get back to my initial proposition of looking for the kind of girl I really wanted to be my lifetime companion, possibly my second wife (I was divorced back in the UK). Needless to say, when I got back on that track, finding a girl who was young, pretty, fair-skinned, well-educated, never married, hailing from an upper-class family, open to date a divorcee 15-20 years her senior, proved nowhere near as easy. Nevertheless, despite still living in impoverished Davao, I had some business connection with Manila and was lucky enough to meet "my" girl.

I've been in the Philippines since it opened almost 2 years ago. Met my wife immediately when I got there. I haven't given a dime to her family (except gas money to her father when he drives me around since I would never drive myself here).

You can avoid supporting the family as long as you pick an educated girl from a good family that has some degree of financial literacy. This is not super easy to find since the IQ in the Philippines is through the floor, but they're out there.

May I ask: did you got acquainted with her while still home, or you met her in the Philippines? You have been lucky to find a girl from a self-sufficient family, as you say, and who was open to dating a foreign young man, rather than someone from her own social circles.

This is very true. I have a good-looking face and I'm reasonably young, but I struggled mightily in the west due to my short stature. In the Philippines, I'm just average. So I had my pick of women. Highly recommended for short guys.

Smart, smart move.

So long you are a "good guy", you turn up to the girl's home and vow to give financial the girl and the parents (and siblings...and a couple of inlaws...), that's automatically more than what those girls would receive from 99% of the local prospect they might receive.

No. This is bad advice. Please don't do this. Find a girl whose family is self-sufficient. They're out there.

The matter of "self-sufficiency" is a complicated one and has much more to do with financial literacy and moral strength, than actual access to wealth. So many Filipino families, even those who claim to be educated and populate the upper echelons of public administration or the industry, are still very undisciplined, when it comes to wanting more than they can afford. They tend to be greedy and take advantage of every situation where they think they have a reasonable chance to get away with free cash, or free favours, or both.

You probably found not only the right girl, but also the right family. Sometimes parents, or even just one parent, who worked abroad for a number of years, is all it takes for the entire family to uphold to better ethical standards than the rest of the locals.

I can't be sure but what I think happened with you, just like with @MarcosZeitola, is that your girl and her family perceived your youth, your good looks and your future potential in life as sufficient added value to be happy with your relationship. Had you been in your 50s, not so good looking and looking for a girl in her 20s, they would have either opposed your relationship with the girl, or consent in exchange of you bringing "something to the table", sharing your wealth with them.

This is the common trait. To what extent this trait is exercised, it depends on the amount or moral backbone vs greed and opportunism. I know of girls who married their senile partners and went to live abroad, only to be told by their mothers than they need to send home a substantial sum of money, just to offset the hassle and pain of having their entire neighbourhood constantly gossip about their daughter being a gold digger. So let's add "resilience to peer pressure and gossip" to the mix.

All in all, if you are but a few years older than your Filipina, with desirable traits (fair skin, light eyes, maybe blonde hair) and never married, few families will see a relationship with their girl as less than a blessing. Things change considerably as age gap moves on the scale.

It's possible that this was true in the past, but it isn't anymore. With the availability of online, foreign-based jobs, it's possible for Filipinos to lift themselves out of poverty. I've known people who have done this. I've also known people who grew up in bad conditions, put themselves through school and now live a middle class (by Filipino standards) lifestyle.

Now, will a person grow up in the mountains with concrete floors and become a billionaire? Probably not. But it's definitely possible to go from poor to middle class.

This is true, but let's not forget that "middle class" status in the Philippines is a relatively fragile socio-economic status. A young man and his wife may have a combined income of P100,000 or more, which would put the household in "urban middle class" status. Yet, these couples learn pretty soon that, in order to give their kids a half chance in life, they need to send them to private schools, from kindergarden all the way up to college (UP being the lone exception). Social pressure and the need to perform well at work make it an almost compulsory choice to leave close to the workplace, maybe around one of the Business Districts, which immediately increases the portion of income that goes on rent, or a mortgage (in lucky cases).

The worse happens when a medical problem happens, not necessarily to the couple but even to the parents or in-laws. Quality of private healthcare here is very good, but tends to be expensive. They say middle class Filipinos are only one medical emergency away from plunging into debt, or poverty again.

I might sound overly cynical here but, from what I could observe, the only way to live comfortably, as a Filipino in the Philippines, is by either live off inherited wealth and a cushy position obtained by privilege, or be one of the myriad of corrupt politicians and public administrators, who can rake up tens to hundred of thousands of dollars every year from bribes.

When I came to the Philippines, I specifically avoided girls who were uneducated and/or unemployed. I also made it clear from the beginning that I will not be the family's ATM. I weeded out a ton of girls this way.

From what I've seen, most foreigners just chase looks and want to date the youngest girl possible without really considering anything else. That's where they get themselves into trouble.

That's true but, as I said, the "call of the jungle" is hard to avoid when you haven't had sex in, say, 5 years and your last "relatioship" was with a slightly psychotic, overweight mom of 3.

You also need to look at things from the point of view of someone older, disillusioned about life. The moment a man learns he can attains sexual nirvana in the Philippines, they will naturally put all other qualities in a relationship, including inner beauty, intelligence and curiosity, on the far backseat. If those men can have a slender girl, with perfectly tanned skin and sensual facial features, give them sex 2 or 3 times a day, without hassling them when they go out for beer with their fellow expats, and keeping the house clean and tidy; that, believe me, is what 90% of what they may desire.

I don't recommend this.

From what I've seen, when guys end up with girls like this, the families tend to use him as an endless piggybank. I guess if the guy is old, it doesn't matter much since he'll be dead soon anyway. But, if the guy is young, he could go through his money really fast this way.

I recommend a logical approach to dating in the Philippines (just like anywhere else).

Like I said, if you are young, good looking and never married, you can afford to pull the "I don't have an income yet" card. For most foreigners past their 40, who are expected to have a professional background and some savings, the game is only balanced when the girl's family sees the man putting something on the table. How much he will have to put, it all depends on the girl and the family's moral backbone.

Good luck with your life in the PH!

[publicduende]

My wife is 5'0 even and quite dark.

I have taken the liberty of taking this statement from you from another thread.

I am happy that you like "morena" (brown) features in your Filipina girls. So do I and most HAers who visited the Philippines. Over time, you will notice that a dark skin, especially a dark face, is one of the least desirable traits. Even if your wife is very pretty to your eyes, most boys from her socio-economic status and above will tend to look for the kind of "white skinned beauty" they have been brainwashed to love. Somebody looking like a Chinese ("Chinita") or Northern Asian, or perhaps more Caucasian.

Basically, less like this



and more like this

[Maverick]

Sorry for the delay. I had a bunch of things come up randomly and forgot about this thread.

Before I respond to this, I want to make it clear that I'm a youngish guy (30s) in the Philippines. My "circle" in the Philippines consists of my wife's friends, many of whom are highly educated professionals, business owners, and politicians. My wife and her friends are/were very open to dating foreigners, but nobody would go over 40 in terms of age (some wouldn't even go over 30). So what's been possible for me may not be possible for someone twice my age.

Nice post and reply, @Maverick. You clearly came to the Philippines with the dual advantage of being young and single, and with a gameplan most foreigners just don't have, at least not at the beginning. Most of "us" foreigners who land here are socially awkward, incel or divorced, traumatised or stressed out by life events and in need for healing. Going from sexually starved to getting laid 3 times a day, maybe with different girls, is a rush most men cannot handle rationally. I admit it happened to me, too. I wanted more and more, quantity over quality. I had some savoir faire with the ladies and got addicted. Meeting 3 different girls every week was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Yeah, I got lucky on several fronts. First, I'm still youngish and this kind of extended travel wasn't really available for older generations. Second, I have a good-looking face even by western standards. So, despite being short, there was always SOMEONE who was willing to sleep with me (though, as I got older, it turned into a buffet of fat single mothers lol). Third, I have a low sex drive. Just prior to my coming out here, I went almost 3 years without having sex. It didn't bother me at all. Fourth, well, as I previously mentioned, I screened well, but I also got extremely lucky with my girl. There's no question about that.

It took me about 2 years to reset myself and get back to my initial proposition of looking for the kind of girl I really wanted to be my lifetime companion, possibly my second wife (I was divorced back in the UK). Needless to say, when I got back on that track, finding a girl who was young, pretty, fair-skinned, well-educated, never married, hailing from an upper-class family, open to date a divorcee 15-20 years her senior, proved nowhere near as easy. Nevertheless, despite still living in impoverished Davao, I had some business connection with Manila and was lucky enough to meet "my" girl.

Yeah, I'd imagine that to be a tough situation. It's hard to meet upper class people here in general as a foreigner based on my experience. I only met them through my wife (who is very well-connected in her city).

But, yeah, I just visited Davao for the first time a few weeks ago. It's definitely shittier than I expected.

I've been in the Philippines since it opened almost 2 years ago. Met my wife immediately when I got there. I haven't given a dime to her family (except gas money to her father when he drives me around since I would never drive myself here).

You can avoid supporting the family as long as you pick an educated girl from a good family that has some degree of financial literacy. This is not super easy to find since the IQ in the Philippines is through the floor, but they're out there.

May I ask: did you got acquainted with her while still home, or you met her in the Philippines? You have been lucky to find a girl from a self-sufficient family, as you say, and who was open to dating a foreign young man, rather than someone from her own social circles.

I signed up for a dating site a few weeks before I came to the Philippines. She was the only girl I messaged. So we had only been talking for a few weeks. She wouldn't even commit to me because she was in the process of getting a US visa lol. But I really liked her personality and I found her to be surprisingly intelligent so I pursued her quite a bit.

Her situation is a bit different. My wife grew up dirt poor. She was an accidental pregnancy to two unmarried 20 year olds. Her father realized that he needed to get his act together and put himself through school. This was during my wife's childhood so she didn't really have much. One thing that she did have was a high IQ. She tested into the gifted programs and that was what exposed her to the upper class. She told me stories of showing up to computer class for the first time, never having used a computer despite being 14 and having to go to the internet cafes to get her work done. To her father's credit, he became a school teacher, noticed my wife's capabilities and worked really hard to make money and put her through school. Also, my wife's brother has very natural mechanical aptitude. My wife's father noticed this too and put him through school to be a maritime engineer, which is his current profession.

My wife became a school teacher, but also had a business of her own when I met her. She has since transitioned into digital marketing and she's doing very well financially (without really needing me for much lol). This also helps build her network because she teaches people how to get into the digital marketing world.

All of this happened while my wife's brother is getting promoted almost annually while working for a foreign company and her father continues to increase his earnings from his side business.

So this is very much the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type of family. They are smart and more disciplined than even many wealthy Filipinos that I've met. But they're also humble and pretty open to things. My wife is known for being picky with who she dates and I think her father was just happy that she's finally getting married lol.

Sorry for the long story (and sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging), but I feel like I had to give the full context to fully answer your question.

So long you are a "good guy", you turn up to the girl's home and vow to give financial the girl and the parents (and siblings...and a couple of inlaws...), that's automatically more than what those girls would receive from 99% of the local prospect they might receive.

No. This is bad advice. Please don't do this. Find a girl whose family is self-sufficient. They're out there.

The matter of "self-sufficiency" is a complicated one and has much more to do with financial literacy and moral strength, than actual access to wealth. So many Filipino families, even those who claim to be educated and populate the upper echelons of public administration or the industry, are still very undisciplined, when it comes to wanting more than they can afford. They tend to be greedy and take advantage of every situation where they think they have a reasonable chance to get away with free cash, or free favours, or both.

You probably found not only the right girl, but also the right family. Sometimes parents, or even just one parent, who worked abroad for a number of years, is all it takes for the entire family to uphold to better ethical standards than the rest of the locals. [/quote]

Oh yeah, I agree with this. I definitely got extremely lucky. My wife's parents have never been abroad. Everybody just seems to have a very deep respect for my wife. She's kind of the unofficial head of the family (despite contributing almost nothing financially). It's definitely a weird dynamic for Filipinos.

I can't be sure but what I think happened with you, just like with @MarcosZeitola, is that your girl and her family perceived your youth, your good looks and your future potential in life as sufficient added value to be happy with your relationship. Had you been in your 50s, not so good looking and looking for a girl in her 20s, they would have either opposed your relationship with the girl, or consent in exchange of you bringing "something to the table", sharing your wealth with them.

No. Her father didn't care at all about this stuff. My wife and I started talking about business and crypto on the dating site (I had a successful online business, which is what allowed me to come to the Philippines). My wife also had businesses. She often just talked to guys on the dating site to get business and crypto advice (this is what she did with me initially). She talked to a guy in his late 50s who was heavily involved in crypto. He took a liking to her and started sending her flowers. Her father encouraged her to date him, but she wasn't interested due to his age (to be fair, he was definitely good-looking for his age and tall).

Like I said previously, as long as the guy wasn't a poor Filipino, I think her father would have been okay with the arrangement because he felt that she was too old to not be at least in a long term relationship heading to marriage (at 26).

This is the common trait. To what extent this trait is exercised, it depends on the amount or moral backbone vs greed and opportunism. I know of girls who married their senile partners and went to live abroad, only to be told by their mothers than they need to send home a substantial sum of money, just to offset the hassle and pain of having their entire neighbourhood constantly gossip about their daughter being a gold digger. So let's add "resilience to peer pressure and gossip" to the mix.

Yeah, I've heard about situations like this.

All in all, if you are but a few years older than your Filipina, with desirable traits (fair skin, light eyes, maybe blonde hair) and never married, few families will see a relationship with their girl as less than a blessing. Things change considerably as age gap moves on the scale.

That could definitely be true. I've never dated as an older guy obviously so I can't comment on it.

It's possible that this was true in the past, but it isn't anymore. With the availability of online, foreign-based jobs, it's possible for Filipinos to lift themselves out of poverty. I've known people who have done this. I've also known people who grew up in bad conditions, put themselves through school and now live a middle class (by Filipino standards) lifestyle.

Now, will a person grow up in the mountains with concrete floors and become a billionaire? Probably not. But it's definitely possible to go from poor to middle class.

This is true, but let's not forget that "middle class" status in the Philippines is a relatively fragile socio-economic status. A young man and his wife may have a combined income of P100,000 or more, which would put the household in "urban middle class" status. Yet, these couples learn pretty soon that, in order to give their kids a half chance in life, they need to send them to private schools, from kindergarden all the way up to college (UP being the lone exception). Social pressure and the need to perform well at work make it an almost compulsory choice to leave close to the workplace, maybe around one of the Business Districts, which immediately increases the portion of income that goes on rent, or a mortgage (in lucky cases).

Very true, but I would argue that this is why the fertility rate is declining in the Philippines (hit below replacement last year). Filipinos are becoming more financially literate and are more concerned for the futures of their children than ever before. It's much easier to send one kid to a very good school than 5 kids to shitty schools.

The worse happens when a medical problem happens, not necessarily to the couple but even to the parents or in-laws. Quality of private healthcare here is very good, but tends to be expensive. They say middle class Filipinos are only one medical emergency away from plunging into debt, or poverty again.

I had my wife look at this and she agrees. I know she's concerned about her parents' healthcare situation in the future. The access to healthcare is dreadfully subpar in this country, but I've also noticed that they practice almost no preventative medicine, which is probably an even bigger issue. They only deal with illnesses when they become a problem. It's just as much of a Filipino attitude problem as it is a financial problem from my observation.

I might sound overly cynical here but, from what I could observe, the only way to live comfortably, as a Filipino in the Philippines, is by either live off inherited wealth and a cushy position obtained by privilege, or be one of the myriad of corrupt politicians and public administrators, who can rake up tens to hundred of thousands of dollars every year from bribes.

Or have a smaller family with everyone working online for foreign companies, which I've seen a few people doing recently. I think this trend will pick up in the future.

When I came to the Philippines, I specifically avoided girls who were uneducated and/or unemployed. I also made it clear from the beginning that I will not be the family's ATM. I weeded out a ton of girls this way.

From what I've seen, most foreigners just chase looks and want to date the youngest girl possible without really considering anything else. That's where they get themselves into trouble.

That's true but, as I said, the "call of the jungle" is hard to avoid when you haven't had sex in, say, 5 years and your last "relatioship" was with a slightly psychotic, overweight mom of 3.

You also need to look at things from the point of view of someone older, disillusioned about life. The moment a man learns he can attains sexual nirvana in the Philippines, they will naturally put all other qualities in a relationship, including inner beauty, intelligence and curiosity, on the far backseat. If those men can have a slender girl, with perfectly tanned skin and sensual facial features, give them sex 2 or 3 times a day, without hassling them when they go out for beer with their fellow expats, and keeping the house clean and tidy; that, believe me, is what 90% of what they may desire.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I'm just projecting my own values. Personally, I'd rather be alone than having someone in my life who's blatantly taking advantage of me. After thinking about it a bit, I guess it's just an entirely different situation. A 60-something or 70-something year old man likely doesn't have a ton of years left in him. He just wants to enjoy his retirement and live in peace.

As a 30-something year old, I was looking for a life partner who I genuinely respect, an intellectual equal who I'm also attracted to.

So I guess we're just at different stages in life. Maybe I'll understand when I'm older.

I don't recommend this.

From what I've seen, when guys end up with girls like this, the families tend to use him as an endless piggybank. I guess if the guy is old, it doesn't matter much since he'll be dead soon anyway. But, if the guy is young, he could go through his money really fast this way.

I recommend a logical approach to dating in the Philippines (just like anywhere else).

Like I said, if you are young, good looking and never married, you can afford to pull the "I don't have an income yet" card. For most foreigners past their 40, who are expected to have a professional background and some savings, the game is only balanced when the girl's family sees the man putting something on the table. How much he will have to put, it all depends on the girl and the family's moral backbone.

As I said previously, my situation is quite a bit different. I have a skill that netted me 6 figures annually in the US and have a business that nets me in the the mid-to-high 5 figures annual online that I've made mostly passive. So I have quite a bit of income (for the Philippines) and earning potential in general. As smart as my wife and her family are, I'm sure they took this into account.

Good luck with your life in the PH!

Thanks! Good luck to you too with whatever you're currently doing!

[Maverick]

My wife is 5'0 even and quite dark.

I have taken the liberty of taking this statement from you from another thread.

I am happy that you like "morena" (brown) features in your Filipina girls. So do I and most HAers who visited the Philippines. Over time, you will notice that a dark skin, especially a dark face, is one of the least desirable traits. Even if your wife is very pretty to your eyes, most boys from her socio-economic status and above will tend to look for the kind of "white skinned beauty" they have been brainwashed to love. Somebody looking like a Chinese ("Chinita") or Northern Asian, or perhaps more Caucasian.

Basically, less like this



and more like this

Yeah, my wife definitely looks more like the former than the latter. No question about that. Personally, I don't find the lighter skinned girl attractive at all. I mean I'd bang her, but I wouldn't notice her on the street in the Philippines. The darker skinned girl is stunningly beautiful to me. I actually think my wife is more attractive than most celebrities in the Philippines.

With that said, in her case, she definitely got interest from guys in her socioeconomic status. Her only boyfriend before me was a certified Chad (half-Chinese, tall, super good-looking by all standards, and wealthy). But she always told me that these kinds of guys only became interested in her after they got to know her. They were good friends for several years and he admired her intelligence and personality, not so much her looks.

On this note, it's really sad that Filipinos don't like traits that are indicative of their own race and heritage. They seem to have this weird obsession with large noses. It's crazy how often I hear this brought up and how often people comment about the beauty of my nose (still very odd, no matter how often it happens). I guess that all comes from years of colonialism, the media, and general poor education.

[publicduende]

Sorry for the delay. I had a bunch of things come up randomly and forgot about this thread.

No problem. I have gotten excited about your posts because, given the circumstances, they're one big "aha!" for all those guys who daydream about changing their lives by making themselves financially independent, moving abroad and finding love. Some people dream less and do more, so their hit that sweet spot where moving abroad becomes more pleasure and less risk.

I wouldn't consider you an average case: your combination of young age, financial solidity and luck in finding a great partner (and their family!) almost immediately, put you in the top 20% of young expats who get their act together and happily move to sunnier pastures.

Well done and I do wish you the best of luck!

Yeah, I'd imagine that to be a tough situation. It's hard to meet upper class people here in general as a foreigner based on my experience. I only met them through my wife (who is very well-connected in her city).

So what city are you based in?

But, yeah, I just visited Davao for the first time a few weeks ago. It's definitely shittier than I expected.

There isn't much to see and do, in Davao. It's a city that gives its best when you're a 60-yo placidly retiring in the outskirts, or maybe a middle-aged sexpat who needs a decent, yet not too wild, combination of nightlife and chronical poverty to make his shenanigans work.

To set up a business that's not the usual bar or restaurant, the cities in and around Metro Manila and Metro Cebu are a much better choice.

I signed up for a dating site a few weeks before I came to the Philippines. She was the only girl I messaged. So we had only been talking for a few weeks. She wouldn't even commit to me because she was in the process of getting a US visa lol. But I really liked her personality and I found her to be surprisingly intelligent so I pursued her quite a bit.

Her situation is a bit different. My wife grew up dirt poor. She was an accidental pregnancy to two unmarried 20 year olds. Her father realized that he needed to get his act together and put himself through school. This was during my wife's childhood so she didn't really have much. One thing that she did have was a high IQ. She tested into the gifted programs and that was what exposed her to the upper class. She told me stories of showing up to computer class for the first time, never having used a computer despite being 14 and having to go to the internet cafes to get her work done. To her father's credit, he became a school teacher, noticed my wife's capabilities and worked really hard to make money and put her through school. Also, my wife's brother has very natural mechanical aptitude. My wife's father noticed this too and put him through school to be a maritime engineer, which is his current profession.

My wife became a school teacher, but also had a business of her own when I met her. She has since transitioned into digital marketing and she's doing very well financially (without really needing me for much lol). This also helps build her network because she teaches people how to get into the digital marketing world.

All of this happened while my wife's brother is getting promoted almost annually while working for a foreign company and her father continues to increase his earnings from his side business.

So this is very much the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type of family. They are smart and more disciplined than even many wealthy Filipinos that I've met. But they're also humble and pretty open to things. My wife is known for being picky with who she dates and I think her father was just happy that she's finally getting married lol.

Sorry for the long story (and sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging), but I feel like I had to give the full context to fully answer your question.

No worries, I loved hearing your wife's family story, as it's quite unusual. "Pulling yourself from your bootstraps" is essentially the polar opposite of how many Filipinos families behave: even when help is given, opportunities handed out, most of them don't have the intellectual or moral backbone, or often even the discipline, to follow through and come out successful.

Teaching in the Philippines is one of the most respected profession. It doesn't yield much, financially, most public teachers not making more than P20,000 a month (plus rare perks, like a shitty $200 laptop that the corrupted Department of Education paid $1000 for). Fortunately, the culture is still traditional enough to give Educators an important role in the community. A dedicated Teacher is given as much respect as a good nurse, and even a good doctors. Even more respect, considering she hails from a family who managed to build themselves from within.

Oh yeah, I agree with this. I definitely got extremely lucky. My wife's parents have never been abroad. Everybody just seems to have a very deep respect for my wife. She's kind of the unofficial head of the family (despite contributing almost nothing financially). It's definitely a weird dynamic for Filipinos.

Well, welcome to the Filipino matriarchy

Filipino culture (like most in the Malay/Austronesian region) have traditionally given a very equal role to women. As you probably already realised, the number of women in positions of power, from Barangay (city area) level all the way to Senate and Parliament, as well as in private sector industry, is quite high, probably on a par with most of the self-admittedly "feminist" societies, like Scandinavian countries and Switzerland.

No. Her father didn't care at all about this stuff. My wife and I started talking about business and crypto on the dating site (I had a successful online business, which is what allowed me to come to the Philippines). My wife also had businesses. She often just talked to guys on the dating site to get business and crypto advice (this is what she did with me initially). She talked to a guy in his late 50s who was heavily involved in crypto. He took a liking to her and started sending her flowers. Her father encouraged her to date him, but she wasn't interested due to his age (to be fair, he was definitely good-looking for his age and tall).

Like I said previously, as long as the guy wasn't a poor Filipino, I think her father would have been okay with the arrangement because he felt that she was too old to not be at least in a long term relationship heading to marriage (at 26).

Interesting, that her father would have been happy for her to marry a man twice her age on the basis that he was a succesful businessman. Thats his pragmatic, business-oriented outlook in life, coming to the fore. Unfortunately, dating sites are full of phoney old men who would pose as anyone, including a successful businessman, so long they can get into the girl's pants for a few weeks. Again, she was lucky (and perceptive) to find out who was a successful businessman...and then hook up with the younger one!

Very true, but I would argue that this is why the fertility rate is declining in the Philippines (hit below replacement last year). Filipinos are becoming more financially literate and are more concerned for the futures of their children than ever before. It's much easier to send one kid to a very good school than 5 kids to shitty schools.

I hope this simple memo is hitting home more and more often and the "quality over quantity" mentality will set in. The next few decades will show it.

The worse happens when a medical problem happens, not necessarily to the couple but even to the parents or in-laws. Quality of private healthcare here is very good, but tends to be expensive. They say middle class Filipinos are only one medical emergency away from plunging into debt, or poverty again.

I had my wife look at this and she agrees. I know she's concerned about her parents' healthcare situation in the future. The access to healthcare is dreadfully subpar in this country, but I've also noticed that they practice almost no preventative medicine, which is probably an even bigger issue. They only deal with illnesses when they become a problem. It's just as much of a Filipino attitude problem as it is a financial problem from my observation.

The personal health aspect is just one more expression of the Filipino's shortsightedness. Fortunately, more and more people are now educated and choose a healthy living relatively early on. Unfortunately, those who make these choices are those who are also financially sound and could even afford private medical insurance, if anything bad ever happened to them.

For the impoverished people living in the province, eating hormone-packed pork meat (which would be illegal to sell in most Western countries) remains the only choices. Then many of them die at 45 with cancer or clogged arteries.

Or have a smaller family with everyone working online for foreign companies, which I've seen a few people doing recently. I think this trend will pick up in the future.

I hope it becomes a trend, for this godforsaken's place sake.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I'm just projecting my own values. Personally, I'd rather be alone than having someone in my life who's blatantly taking advantage of me. After thinking about it a bit, I guess it's just an entirely different situation. A 60-something or 70-something year old man likely doesn't have a ton of years left in him. He just wants to enjoy his retirement and live in peace.

As a 30-something year old, I was looking for a life partner who I genuinely respect, an intellectual equal who I'm also attracted to.

So I guess we're just at different stages in life. Maybe I'll understand when I'm older.

The fact that you understand an older man's point of view doesn't make that point of view suitable or beneficial for you. It's another part of why you're bound to be successful in the Philippines, that you can emphatise with people from different walks of life and who took different paths, while knowing full well what's the best path for you. With YouTube channels about the Philippines and Philippine life now abounding, it's remarkably hard to take some advice and make that advice work for you.

[publicduende]

Yeah, my wife definitely looks more like the former than the latter. No question about that. Personally, I don't find the lighter skinned girl attractive at all. I mean I'd bang her, but I wouldn't notice her on the street in the Philippines. The darker skinned girl is stunningly beautiful to me. I actually think my wife is more attractive than most celebrities in the Philippines.

With that said, in her case, she definitely got interest from guys in her socioeconomic status. Her only boyfriend before me was a certified Chad (half-Chinese, tall, super good-looking by all standards, and wealthy). But she always told me that these kinds of guys only became interested in her after they got to know her. They were good friends for several years and he admired her intelligence and personality, not so much her looks.

On this note, it's really sad that Filipinos don't like traits that are indicative of their own race and heritage. They seem to have this weird obsession with large noses. It's crazy how often I hear this brought up and how often people comment about the beauty of my nose (still very odd, no matter how often it happens). I guess that all comes from years of colonialism, the media, and general poor education.

Well, consider the history of the Philippines, in fact the history of all colonies including those in Latin America, Africa and the rest of Asia. You have a tiny minority of Western people who profess, for decades or even centuries, that they are the unmatched upper rung of society. They run the politics, they own the largest businesses, they make decisions that affect the lives of millions of native people - including how much the native should be allowed to partake in their own culture.

Colonial times were particularly though for the Philippines because, unlike Mexico and their South Americans settlements, Spain never believed it would be possible to rule over settlements at the two polar opposite of the known world. For the most part, they "outsourced" the governance of the Philippines to Mexico, which helped creating remarkable trade routes (like the Manila-Acapulco one) but left the Spaniard "motherly hand" a bit too distant and allowed alternative communities, like the high ranks of the Catholic Church, to acquire way too much power. This is what Jose Rizal laments in his books.

Fortunately, after Mexico became independent in 1821, Spain took the Philippines under its wing again. Technology had advanced significantly and Spain could propel the Philippines forward. Railways were built, the government oversaw the birth of large private companies, many of which still standing today, and access to education and healthcare was extended to all.

Despite this, the Philippines come from 350 years of being hammered with the Western ideal of beauty, class, success. The situation didn't change a bit when the country became a US territory, like Puerto Rico is now. Those stereotypes that associated beauty, class and success with having Caucasian features, or at least non-Malay traits, are very hard to repel, especially when the media keep filling its billboards and beauty pageants with spotless white or whitened faces.

If you care to know, my ex-wife is from Colombia, Medellin. Her mother's side had French ancestry, so many of her uncles, cousins and even her own brother have more Western features: light brown or blonde hair, pointy noses, fair skin, green eyes, chiselled facial features. My ex-wife is (or at least was) a gorgeous morena, yet she was considered the "ugly duckling" because of her more mulatto looks. This, despite her being very smart (a mechanical engineer with a Masters from a prestigious university) and with international professional experience.

[Maverick]

Sorry for the delay. I had a bunch of things come up randomly and forgot about this thread.

No problem. I have gotten excited about your posts because, given the circumstances, they're one big "aha!" for all those guys who daydream about changing their lives by making themselves financially independent, moving abroad and finding love. Some people dream less and do more, so their hit that sweet spot where moving abroad becomes more pleasure and less risk.

I wouldn't consider you an average case: your combination of young age, financial solidity and luck in finding a great partner (and their family!) almost immediately, put you in the top 20% of young expats who get their act together and happily move to sunnier pastures.

Well done and I do wish you the best of luck!

Thanks!

Yeah, I joined the forum 10 years ago and it took almost that amount of time to get here. Definitely an interesting journey (especially since I probably would have ended up in China if COVID never happened).

Yeah, I'd imagine that to be a tough situation. It's hard to meet upper class people here in general as a foreigner based on my experience. I only met them through my wife (who is very well-connected in her city).

So what city are you based in?

[/quote]

A city called Butuan. It's weird - clearly a small city, but a province feel. I was surprised to find that it's the fifth largest city in Mindanao. But based on what I've seen this is the absolute smallest I could go. I can never be the guy living 3 hours away from the nearest McDonalds in Leyte lol.

I do recommend that guys come here though. I've traveled all over the Philippines and this is probably the friendliest place I've been. Tons of hot and obviously friendly girls.

But, for sure, I wouldn't be here if my wife wasn't from here. There's very few foreigners and the ones that are here tend to be super old. It would be nice to go where some younger guys are. We've considered moving to other places like Baguio or Siargao or even moving back to the US or Europe (I'm a dual citizen).

But, yeah, I just visited Davao for the first time a few weeks ago. It's definitely shittier than I expected.

There isn't much to see and do, in Davao. It's a city that gives its best when you're a 60-yo placidly retiring in the outskirts, or maybe a middle-aged sexpat who needs a decent, yet not too wild, combination of nightlife and chronical poverty to make his shenanigans work.

To set up a business that's not the usual bar or restaurant, the cities in and around Metro Manila and Metro Cebu are a much better choice.
[/quote]

Yeah, Manila and Cebu are definitely different beasts than most places in the Philippines. My experience is that, in Mindanao, Cagayan is just a somewhat bigger version of Butuan and Davao is just a much bigger version of Cagayan. There weren't a ton of variations and, even in Davao, the restaurant selection was surprisingly low. We spent most of the time at TGI Fridays

In terms of businesses, I wouldn't do it personally. Too many landmines and not enough potential profit. The only thing I would consider is buying houses and renting them out, but I figure I'll start with the house I have now if we decide to leave the country and see how that guys.

I signed up for a dating site a few weeks before I came to the Philippines. She was the only girl I messaged. So we had only been talking for a few weeks. She wouldn't even commit to me because she was in the process of getting a US visa lol. But I really liked her personality and I found her to be surprisingly intelligent so I pursued her quite a bit.

Her situation is a bit different. My wife grew up dirt poor. She was an accidental pregnancy to two unmarried 20 year olds. Her father realized that he needed to get his act together and put himself through school. This was during my wife's childhood so she didn't really have much. One thing that she did have was a high IQ. She tested into the gifted programs and that was what exposed her to the upper class. She told me stories of showing up to computer class for the first time, never having used a computer despite being 14 and having to go to the internet cafes to get her work done. To her father's credit, he became a school teacher, noticed my wife's capabilities and worked really hard to make money and put her through school. Also, my wife's brother has very natural mechanical aptitude. My wife's father noticed this too and put him through school to be a maritime engineer, which is his current profession.

My wife became a school teacher, but also had a business of her own when I met her. She has since transitioned into digital marketing and she's doing very well financially (without really needing me for much lol). This also helps build her network because she teaches people how to get into the digital marketing world.

All of this happened while my wife's brother is getting promoted almost annually while working for a foreign company and her father continues to increase his earnings from his side business.

So this is very much the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type of family. They are smart and more disciplined than even many wealthy Filipinos that I've met. But they're also humble and pretty open to things. My wife is known for being picky with who she dates and I think her father was just happy that she's finally getting married lol.

Sorry for the long story (and sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging), but I feel like I had to give the full context to fully answer your question.

No worries, I loved hearing your wife's family story, as it's quite unusual. "Pulling yourself from your bootstraps" is essentially the polar opposite of how many Filipinos families behave: even when help is given, opportunities handed out, most of them don't have the intellectual or moral backbone, or often even the discipline, to follow through and come out successful. [/quote]

Oh yeah, for sure. I really haven't met anyone else here that have done something like this besides my wife's family. The more I learn about it, the more surprised and impressed I am.

Teaching in the Philippines is one of the most respected profession. It doesn't yield much, financially, most public teachers not making more than P20,000 a month (plus rare perks, like a shitty $200 laptop that the corrupted Department of Education paid $1000 for). Fortunately, the culture is still traditional enough to give Educators an important role in the community. A dedicated Teacher is given as much respect as a good nurse, and even a good doctors. Even more respect, considering she hails from a family who managed to build themselves from within.

The salary for public teachers has gone up a bit. My wife was making P25,000 (net) before she quit and her father makes around P35,000 I think.

Yeah, teachers and nurses get respect. Whether or not they actually deserve that respect is another question.

Oh yeah, I agree with this. I definitely got extremely lucky. My wife's parents have never been abroad. Everybody just seems to have a very deep respect for my wife. She's kind of the unofficial head of the family (despite contributing almost nothing financially). It's definitely a weird dynamic for Filipinos.

Well, welcome to the Filipino matriarchy

Filipino culture (like most in the Malay/Austronesian region) have traditionally given a very equal role to women. As you probably already realised, the number of women in positions of power, from Barangay (city area) level all the way to Senate and Parliament, as well as in private sector industry, is quite high, probably on a par with most of the self-admittedly "feminist" societies, like Scandinavian countries and Switzerland. [/quote]

Yes, very true.

No. Her father didn't care at all about this stuff. My wife and I started talking about business and crypto on the dating site (I had a successful online business, which is what allowed me to come to the Philippines). My wife also had businesses. She often just talked to guys on the dating site to get business and crypto advice (this is what she did with me initially). She talked to a guy in his late 50s who was heavily involved in crypto. He took a liking to her and started sending her flowers. Her father encouraged her to date him, but she wasn't interested due to his age (to be fair, he was definitely good-looking for his age and tall).

Like I said previously, as long as the guy wasn't a poor Filipino, I think her father would have been okay with the arrangement because he felt that she was too old to not be at least in a long term relationship heading to marriage (at 26).

Interesting, that her father would have been happy for her to marry a man twice her age on the basis that he was a succesful businessman. Thats his pragmatic, business-oriented outlook in life, coming to the fore. Unfortunately, dating sites are full of phoney old men who would pose as anyone, including a successful businessman, so long they can get into the girl's pants for a few weeks. Again, she was lucky (and perceptive) to find out who was a successful businessman...and then hook up with the younger one!

Yeah, he did end up being a bit sketchy. My wife was contacted by his eventual fiancee after his rejection and they've been talking. Turns out he did exaggerate a lot of things. I don't really know the details. But he's already working on a fiancee visa to get her to the US. So I guess he's serious (pretty risky since I think the guy is 58 or 59 and the girl is 22 with a large, poor family).

And, yes, my wife is very perceptive. When I was coming out here, she had already taken a teaching job in the US and was in the process of getting her visa. She hated teaching, but her goal was to save up a lot of money in order to start a business. I made a deal with her that if she stayed, I would pay her back for the amount that she already paid throughout this process (it was close to $1k USD so far) if she would stay here and be with me (I didn't want to go back to the US at the time and definitely didn't want to go where she was going) while also starting a business. BUT the business had to be online, none of this sari-sari store nonsense.

To my surprise, she agreed and turned down the opportunity, fully trusting that I would do everything that I said I would do (which I did do).

I asked her why she trusted me so much when she just met me. She simply shrugged her shoulders and said "I could tell that you're the type of person who tells the truth in these situations."

So, yes, she's very perceptive lol.

Very true, but I would argue that this is why the fertility rate is declining in the Philippines (hit below replacement last year). Filipinos are becoming more financially literate and are more concerned for the futures of their children than ever before. It's much easier to send one kid to a very good school than 5 kids to shitty schools.

I hope this simple memo is hitting home more and more often and the "quality over quantity" mentality will set in. The next few decades will show it. [/quote]

I think it will. At least the data shows that positive changes are happening. However, I think this will hurt guys coming over here looking for cheap p***y in the future. The days of 60 year olds marrying 20 year olds will likely come to an end soon if a good portion of 20-somethings are going to college. Time will tell.

I had my wife look at this and she agrees. I know she's concerned about her parents' healthcare situation in the future. The access to healthcare is dreadfully subpar in this country, but I've also noticed that they practice almost no preventative medicine, which is probably an even bigger issue. They only deal with illnesses when they become a problem. It's just as much of a Filipino attitude problem as it is a financial problem from my observation.

The personal health aspect is just one more expression of the Filipino's shortsightedness. Fortunately, more and more people are now educated and choose a healthy living relatively early on. Unfortunately, those who make these choices are those who are also financially sound and could even afford private medical insurance, if anything bad ever happened to them.

For the impoverished people living in the province, eating hormone-packed pork meat (which would be illegal to sell in most Western countries) remains the only choices. Then many of them die at 45 with cancer or clogged arteries. [/quote]

Very true. The foods I've seen some Filipinos eat have been absolutely disgusting. I think I would seriously starve to death before eating that.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I'm just projecting my own values. Personally, I'd rather be alone than having someone in my life who's blatantly taking advantage of me. After thinking about it a bit, I guess it's just an entirely different situation. A 60-something or 70-something year old man likely doesn't have a ton of years left in him. He just wants to enjoy his retirement and live in peace.

As a 30-something year old, I was looking for a life partner who I genuinely respect, an intellectual equal who I'm also attracted to.

So I guess we're just at different stages in life. Maybe I'll understand when I'm older.

The fact that you understand an older man's point of view doesn't make that point of view suitable or beneficial for you. It's another part of why you're bound to be successful in the Philippines, that you can emphatise with people from different walks of life and who took different paths, while knowing full well what's the best path for you. With YouTube channels about the Philippines and Philippine life now abounding, it's remarkably hard to take some advice and make that advice work for you.
[/quote]

This is definitely true. I listened to some channels before coming here, even did a paid consult. In the end, I did almost nothing they told me to do and just went with my instincts that worked. But many of those guys have been in the Philippines for many many years and either just settled down or are still looking. So they were probably playing around and didn't really know what they wanted. I knew exactly what I wanted.

And, yeah, I can empathize with older expats. I do struggle to empathize with Filipinos though. I'll have to work on that one lol.

[Maverick]

Yeah, my wife definitely looks more like the former than the latter. No question about that. Personally, I don't find the lighter skinned girl attractive at all. I mean I'd bang her, but I wouldn't notice her on the street in the Philippines. The darker skinned girl is stunningly beautiful to me. I actually think my wife is more attractive than most celebrities in the Philippines.

With that said, in her case, she definitely got interest from guys in her socioeconomic status. Her only boyfriend before me was a certified Chad (half-Chinese, tall, super good-looking by all standards, and wealthy). But she always told me that these kinds of guys only became interested in her after they got to know her. They were good friends for several years and he admired her intelligence and personality, not so much her looks.

On this note, it's really sad that Filipinos don't like traits that are indicative of their own race and heritage. They seem to have this weird obsession with large noses. It's crazy how often I hear this brought up and how often people comment about the beauty of my nose (still very odd, no matter how often it happens). I guess that all comes from years of colonialism, the media, and general poor education.

Well, consider the history of the Philippines, in fact the history of all colonies including those in Latin America, Africa and the rest of Asia. You have a tiny minority of Western people who profess, for decades or even centuries, that they are the unmatched upper rung of society. They run the politics, they own the largest businesses, they make decisions that affect the lives of millions of native people - including how much the native should be allowed to partake in their own culture.

Colonial times were particularly though for the Philippines because, unlike Mexico and their South Americans settlements, Spain never believed it would be possible to rule over settlements at the two polar opposite of the known world. For the most part, they "outsourced" the governance of the Philippines to Mexico, which helped creating remarkable trade routes (like the Manila-Acapulco one) but left the Spaniard "motherly hand" a bit too distant and allowed alternative communities, like the high ranks of the Catholic Church, to acquire way too much power. This is what Jose Rizal laments in his books.

Fortunately, after Mexico became independent in 1821, Spain took the Philippines under its wing again. Technology had advanced significantly and Spain could propel the Philippines forward. Railways were built, the government oversaw the birth of large private companies, many of which still standing today, and access to education and healthcare was extended to all.

Despite this, the Philippines come from 350 years of being hammered with the Western ideal of beauty, class, success. The situation didn't change a bit when the country became a US territory, like Puerto Rico is now. Those stereotypes that associated beauty, class and success with having Caucasian features, or at least non-Malay traits, are very hard to repel, especially when the media keep filling its billboards and beauty pageants with spotless white or whitened faces.

If you care to know, my ex-wife is from Colombia, Medellin. Her mother's side had French ancestry, so many of her uncles, cousins and even her own brother have more Western features: light brown or blonde hair, pointy noses, fair skin, green eyes, chiselled facial features. My ex-wife is (or at least was) a gorgeous morena, yet she was considered the "ugly duckling" because of her more mulatto looks. This, despite her being very smart (a mechanical engineer with a Masters from a prestigious university) and with international professional experience.

Yeah that sucks, but it makes sense. Thanks for the info and detailed write-up!

[publicduende]

Definitely an interesting journey (especially since I probably would have ended up in China if COVID never happened).

LOL you dodged a gigantic bullet there!

A city called Butuan. It's weird - clearly a small city, but a province feel. I was surprised to find that it's the fifth largest city in Mindanao. But based on what I've seen this is the absolute smallest I could go. I can never be the guy living 3 hours away from the nearest McDonalds in Leyte lol.

I do recommend that guys come here though. I've traveled all over the Philippines and this is probably the friendliest place I've been. Tons of hot and obviously friendly girls.

But, for sure, I wouldn't be here if my wife wasn't from here. There's very few foreigners and the ones that are here tend to be super old. It would be nice to go where some younger guys are. We've considered moving to other places like Baguio or Siargao or even moving back to the US or Europe (I'm a dual citizen).

I know Butuan, I have been there. It's kind of a large town, home to several universities and hospitals. Definitely not in the middle of nowhere. And, judging from the streets with bars open till early morning, a good nightlife, too. Good choice for settling.

Yeah, Manila and Cebu are definitely different beasts than most places in the Philippines. My experience is that, in Mindanao, Cagayan is just a somewhat bigger version of Butuan and Davao is just a much bigger version of Cagayan. There weren't a ton of variations and, even in Davao, the restaurant selection was surprisingly low. We spent most of the time at TGI Fridays

Well, Davao is not Manila or even Cebu but, wanting to be fair, there are a lot more good eating options beyond TGI Friday in Abreeza mall. There are a few very decent Japanese restaurants and, recently, even a top-notch Thai. Couple of Middle Eastern and Indian ones, too. A few good coffee shops, etc.

What Davao really misses is a solid nightlife. This is actually a negative legacy of the Duterte's. To "keep the peace", they strongly regulate establishments that provide drinks and even entertainment. The few nice bars open till late(r) all closed during the Covid lockdown. So, for a young person, Davao is kinda depressing, it offers less excitement than places like General Santos and probably Butuan.

Yeah, he did end up being a bit sketchy. My wife was contacted by his eventual fiancee after his rejection and they've been talking. Turns out he did exaggerate a lot of things. I don't really know the details. But he's already working on a fiancee visa to get her to the US. So I guess he's serious (pretty risky since I think the guy is 58 or 59 and the girl is 22 with a large, poor family).

And, yes, my wife is very perceptive. When I was coming out here, she had already taken a teaching job in the US and was in the process of getting her visa. She hated teaching, but her goal was to save up a lot of money in order to start a business. I made a deal with her that if she stayed, I would pay her back for the amount that she already paid throughout this process (it was close to $1k USD so far) if she would stay here and be with me (I didn't want to go back to the US at the time and definitely didn't want to go where she was going) while also starting a business. BUT the business had to be online, none of this sari-sari store nonsense.

To my surprise, she agreed and turned down the opportunity, fully trusting that I would do everything that I said I would do (which I did do).

I asked her why she trusted me so much when she just met me. She simply shrugged her shoulders and said "I could tell that you're the type of person who tells the truth in these situations."

So, yes, she's very perceptive lol.

That's a nice story, thanks for sharing. You clearly found yourself a gem. Also, consider that, from a risk perspective, she might have considered that she is better off losing that $1K and being the Spouse of with a US citizen, rather than landing in the US alone, having to struggle to settle, get her Visa renewed, etc.

Perceptive and pragmatic.

I had my wife look at this and she agrees. I know she's concerned about her parents' healthcare situation in the future. The access to healthcare is dreadfully subpar in this country, but I've also noticed that they practice almost no preventative medicine, which is probably an even bigger issue. They only deal with illnesses when they become a problem. It's just as much of a Filipino attitude problem as it is a financial problem from my observation.

The personal health aspect is just one more expression of the Filipino's shortsightedness. Fortunately, more and more people are now educated and choose a healthy living relatively early on. Unfortunately, those who make these choices are those who are also financially sound and could even afford private medical insurance, if anything bad ever happened to them.

For the impoverished people living in the province, eating hormone-packed pork meat (which would be illegal to sell in most Western countries) remains the only choices. Then many of them die at 45 with cancer or clogged arteries. [/quote]

Very true. The foods I've seen some Filipinos eat have been absolutely disgusting. I think I would seriously starve to death before eating that.

This is definitely true. I listened to some channels before coming here, even did a paid consult. In the end, I did almost nothing they told me to do and just went with my instincts that worked. But many of those guys have been in the Philippines for many many years and either just settled down or are still looking. So they were probably playing around and didn't really know what they wanted. I knew exactly what I wanted.

And, yeah, I can empathize with older expats. I do struggle to empathize with Filipinos though. I'll have to work on that one lol.

One thing you will realise is...the longer you spend in the Philippines, the less you will emphatise with Filipinos. You seem to already have found a wife and a family who expresses those rare qualities of honesty, hard work, resilience and independence from external help. You will basically learn that the vast majority of Filipinos lack those qualities and, to put it cynically, they kind of deserve the poverty and tragedies that happened to them.

Take one single example, one of my favourite. When I was serial dating in Davao, I heard so many girls telling me they were poor and they didn't have enough money to finish college. When I started to learn about how the public high schoola and college system works in this country, I started to call BS on 99% of those cases. If a girl, or boy, is really smart and wants to study seriously, there are colleges and even elite STEM high schools that are public and offer 100% subsidised education. The reality is that some, many girls, learn that it's easier to spread their legs and hope some good (or less good) man will impregnate them and take care of them and their kids for life. Those girls who say they would rather be good wives and housewives are just being lazy and undisciplined and would end up being lousy wives and lousy housewives and mothers.

[Maverick]

Definitely an interesting journey (especially since I probably would have ended up in China if COVID never happened).

LOL you dodged a gigantic bullet there!

A city called Butuan. It's weird - clearly a small city, but a province feel. I was surprised to find that it's the fifth largest city in Mindanao. But based on what I've seen this is the absolute smallest I could go. I can never be the guy living 3 hours away from the nearest McDonalds in Leyte lol.

I do recommend that guys come here though. I've traveled all over the Philippines and this is probably the friendliest place I've been. Tons of hot and obviously friendly girls.

But, for sure, I wouldn't be here if my wife wasn't from here. There's very few foreigners and the ones that are here tend to be super old. It would be nice to go where some younger guys are. We've considered moving to other places like Baguio or Siargao or even moving back to the US or Europe (I'm a dual citizen).

I know Butuan, I have been there. It's kind of a large town, home to several universities and hospitals. Definitely not in the middle of nowhere. And, judging from the streets with bars open till early morning, a good nightlife, too. Good choice for settling.

Yeah, Manila and Cebu are definitely different beasts than most places in the Philippines. My experience is that, in Mindanao, Cagayan is just a somewhat bigger version of Butuan and Davao is just a much bigger version of Cagayan. There weren't a ton of variations and, even in Davao, the restaurant selection was surprisingly low. We spent most of the time at TGI Fridays

Well, Davao is not Manila or even Cebu but, wanting to be fair, there are a lot more good eating options beyond TGI Friday in Abreeza mall. There are a few very decent Japanese restaurants and, recently, even a top-notch Thai. Couple of Middle Eastern and Indian ones, too. A few good coffee shops, etc.

What Davao really misses is a solid nightlife. This is actually a negative legacy of the Duterte's. To "keep the peace", they strongly regulate establishments that provide drinks and even entertainment. The few nice bars open till late(r) all closed during the Covid lockdown. So, for a young person, Davao is kinda depressing, it offers less excitement than places like General Santos and probably Butuan.

Yeah, he did end up being a bit sketchy. My wife was contacted by his eventual fiancee after his rejection and they've been talking. Turns out he did exaggerate a lot of things. I don't really know the details. But he's already working on a fiancee visa to get her to the US. So I guess he's serious (pretty risky since I think the guy is 58 or 59 and the girl is 22 with a large, poor family).

And, yes, my wife is very perceptive. When I was coming out here, she had already taken a teaching job in the US and was in the process of getting her visa. She hated teaching, but her goal was to save up a lot of money in order to start a business. I made a deal with her that if she stayed, I would pay her back for the amount that she already paid throughout this process (it was close to $1k USD so far) if she would stay here and be with me (I didn't want to go back to the US at the time and definitely didn't want to go where she was going) while also starting a business. BUT the business had to be online, none of this sari-sari store nonsense.

To my surprise, she agreed and turned down the opportunity, fully trusting that I would do everything that I said I would do (which I did do).

I asked her why she trusted me so much when she just met me. She simply shrugged her shoulders and said "I could tell that you're the type of person who tells the truth in these situations."

So, yes, she's very perceptive lol.

That's a nice story, thanks for sharing. You clearly found yourself a gem. Also, consider that, from a risk perspective, she might have considered that she is better off losing that $1K and being the Spouse of with a US citizen, rather than landing in the US alone, having to struggle to settle, get her Visa renewed, etc.

Perceptive and pragmatic.

I had my wife look at this and she agrees. I know she's concerned about her parents' healthcare situation in the future. The access to healthcare is dreadfully subpar in this country, but I've also noticed that they practice almost no preventative medicine, which is probably an even bigger issue. They only deal with illnesses when they become a problem. It's just as much of a Filipino attitude problem as it is a financial problem from my observation.

The personal health aspect is just one more expression of the Filipino's shortsightedness. Fortunately, more and more people are now educated and choose a healthy living relatively early on. Unfortunately, those who make these choices are those who are also financially sound and could even afford private medical insurance, if anything bad ever happened to them.

For the impoverished people living in the province, eating hormone-packed pork meat (which would be illegal to sell in most Western countries) remains the only choices. Then many of them die at 45 with cancer or clogged arteries.

Very true. The foods I've seen some Filipinos eat have been absolutely disgusting. I think I would seriously starve to death before eating that.

This is definitely true. I listened to some channels before coming here, even did a paid consult. In the end, I did almost nothing they told me to do and just went with my instincts that worked. But many of those guys have been in the Philippines for many many years and either just settled down or are still looking. So they were probably playing around and didn't really know what they wanted. I knew exactly what I wanted.

And, yeah, I can empathize with older expats. I do struggle to empathize with Filipinos though. I'll have to work on that one lol.

One thing you will realise is...the longer you spend in the Philippines, the less you will emphatise with Filipinos. You seem to already have found a wife and a family who expresses those rare qualities of honesty, hard work, resilience and independence from external help. You will basically learn that the vast majority of Filipinos lack those qualities and, to put it cynically, they kind of deserve the poverty and tragedies that happened to them.

Take one single example, one of my favourite. When I was serial dating in Davao, I heard so many girls telling me they were poor and they didn't have enough money to finish college. When I started to learn about how the public high schoola and college system works in this country, I started to call BS on 99% of those cases. If a girl, or boy, is really smart and wants to study seriously, there are colleges and even elite STEM high schools that are public and offer 100% subsidised education. The reality is that some, many girls, learn that it's easier to spread their legs and hope some good (or less good) man will impregnate them and take care of them and their kids for life. Those girls who say they would rather be good wives and housewives are just being lazy and undisciplined and would end up being lousy wives and lousy housewives and mothers.
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This is definitely true. To be honest, because of my wife's friend group and family, I don't have a lot of exposure to this kind of thing. But I do know how the school system works and it does seem to be fairly easy to get an education. One of my wife's gay friends came from this kind of situation. He grew up super poor with parents who didn't work. He had like 10 siblings, none of whom went to college and most reside at his parents' small house. He worked hard at construction and got a scholarship. He was able to put himself through school and he's now a licensed teacher. And this guy is by no means intelligent. He just works hard and was highly motivated.

But, yeah, the lazy attitude is very prevalent here. That's glaringly obvious whenever I try to do anything really (lol). It's the primary reason, in my opinion, why the Philippines still hasn't developed (I was shocked to find that, at one point in history, it was a leader in Asia along with Japan - this seems laughable now). Yes, corruption and government incompetence is a problem, but the primary problem is the people.

[Maverick]

That's a nice story, thanks for sharing. You clearly found yourself a gem. Also, consider that, from a risk perspective, she might have considered that she is better off losing that $1K and being the Spouse of with a US citizen, rather than landing in the US alone, having to struggle to settle, get her Visa renewed, etc.

Yeah, she went into detail about her decision here. She knew several girls that went to the US with this kind of visa. They usually ended up marrying or dating guys who were less financially stable and less attractive than me. So she figured she already had a good thing. Why risk ruining it and overreaching?

Can you imagine a western woman thinking like that? LOL.

Take one single example, one of my favourite. When I was serial dating in Davao, I heard so many girls telling me they were poor and they didn't have enough money to finish college. When I started to learn about how the public high schoola and college system works in this country, I started to call BS on 99% of those cases. If a girl, or boy, is really smart and wants to study seriously, there are colleges and even elite STEM high schools that are public and offer 100% subsidised education. The reality is that some, many girls, learn that it's easier to spread their legs and hope some good (or less good) man will impregnate them and take care of them and their kids for life. Those girls who say they would rather be good wives and housewives are just being lazy and undisciplined and would end up being lousy wives and lousy housewives and mothers.

This is definitely true. To be honest, because of my wife's friend group and family, I don't have a lot of exposure to this kind of thing. But I do know how the school system works and it does seem to be fairly easy to get an education. One of my wife's gay friends came from this kind of situation. He grew up super poor with parents who didn't work. He had like 10 siblings, none of whom went to college and most reside at his parents' small house. He worked hard at construction and got a scholarship. He was able to put himself through school and he's now a licensed teacher. And this guy is by no means intelligent. He just works hard and was highly motivated.

But, yeah, the lazy attitude is very prevalent here. That's glaringly obvious whenever I try to do anything really (lol). It's the primary reason, in my opinion, why the Philippines still hasn't developed (I was shocked to find that, at one point in history, it was a leader in Asia along with Japan - this seems laughable now). Yes, corruption and government incompetence is a problem, but the primary problem is the people.

[publicduende]

Yeah, she went into detail about her decision here. She knew several girls that went to the US with this kind of visa. They usually ended up marrying or dating guys who were less financially stable and less attractive than me. So she figured she already had a good thing. Why risk ruining it and overreaching?

Can you imagine a western woman thinking like that? LOL.

Yep, I find her way of thinking spotless.

This is definitely true. To be honest, because of my wife's friend group and family, I don't have a lot of exposure to this kind of thing. But I do know how the school system works and it does seem to be fairly easy to get an education. One of my wife's gay friends came from this kind of situation. He grew up super poor with parents who didn't work. He had like 10 siblings, none of whom went to college and most reside at his parents' small house. He worked hard at construction and got a scholarship. He was able to put himself through school and he's now a licensed teacher. And this guy is by no means intelligent. He just works hard and was highly motivated.

It's refreshing to hear such examples. The statistics is, as you can probably see, maybe 1 in 10.

But, yeah, the lazy attitude is very prevalent here. That's glaringly obvious whenever I try to do anything really (lol). It's the primary reason, in my opinion, why the Philippines still hasn't developed (I was shocked to find that, at one point in history, it was a leader in Asia along with Japan - this seems laughable now). Yes, corruption and government incompetence is a problem, but the primary problem is the people.

There have been lots of scholarly studies correlating resource scarcity in a community with that community's industriousness, both at the personal and collective levels. It's well known that the most industrious people in the Philippines are those hailing from North Luzon, a territory that is montainous and difficult to farm. This geographical qualities forced the community living there to adopt both:

1. a stricter collectivist behaviour - work hard or starve - which is well seen in the famous rice terraces of Banaue
2. a martial discipline, with a warrior class ready to pillage neighbouring tribes to ensure sufficient resources to survive - see Igorot tribes and similar

If you travelled through the different islands, you would soon realise that these traits are still very much alive. The south, the Visayas and Mindanao islands are far more bountiful and this has encouraged a more laissez-faire, laid back attitude in people. This means people are friendly, but also lazier, more prone to compromise and corruption. Of course there are lots of exceptions, yet I had a feeling that these cultural traits are still very much present.

[HappyDany]

I signed up for a dating site a few weeks before I came to the Philippines. She was the only girl I messaged. So we had only been talking for a few weeks. She wouldn't even commit to me because she was in the process of getting a US visa lol. But I really liked her personality and I found her to be surprisingly intelligent so I pursued her quite a bit.

Her situation is a bit different. My wife grew up dirt poor. She was an accidental pregnancy to two unmarried 20 year olds. Her father realized that he needed to get his act together and put himself through school. This was during my wife's childhood so she didn't really have much. One thing that she did have was a high IQ. She tested into the gifted programs and that was what exposed her to the upper class. She told me stories of showing up to computer class for the first time, never having used a computer despite being 14 and having to go to the internet cafes to get her work done. To her father's credit, he became a school teacher, noticed my wife's capabilities and worked really hard to make money and put her through school. Also, my wife's brother has very natural mechanical aptitude. My wife's father noticed this too and put him through school to be a maritime engineer, which is his current profession.

My wife became a school teacher, but also had a business of her own when I met her. She has since transitioned into digital marketing and she's doing very well financially (without really needing me for much lol). This also helps build her network because she teaches people how to get into the digital marketing world.

All of this happened while my wife's brother is getting promoted almost annually while working for a foreign company and her father continues to increase his earnings from his side business.

So this is very much the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type of family. They are smart and more disciplined than even many wealthy Filipinos that I've met. But they're also humble and pretty open to things. My wife is known for being picky with who she dates and I think her father was just happy that she's finally getting married lol.

Sorry for the long story (and sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging), but I feel like I had to give the full context to fully answer your question.

I agree, you two were fortunate to meet each other. Your wife and her family are very rare indeed. I learned about families in the Philippines who avoid working because they will forfeit the benefits of 4Ps. It’s lovely to listen to your story, it’s fine to brag a bit, you both earned it.