10 Reasons Why Taiwan Sucks For Social Life, Dating and Fun

[Winston]

http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/01/1 ... sucks.html

10 Reasons Why Taiwan Sucks For Social Life, Dating and Fun

Very few have the guts to openly tell you the following since it's not politically correct or cool. But the truth is, Taiwan is not a good place if you are seeking a great social scene, free-flowing fun, personal happiness, love, romance or passion. Taiwan's social culture and social conditioning are simply not conducive to these things. Below I will explain why and provide sensible reasons that are obvious and undeniable (though taboo). Let's begin.

1. It is very hard to meet people, as they are not open with strangers but very closed in nature.

Social interaction is usually restricted within closed exclusive cliques. You can't just "go out and meet people". People don't generally talk to strangers or make eye contact with them. They act cold and distant toward strangers, treating them as if they don't exist. (Unless they are trying to sell you something of course, but that goes without saying) Trying to start conversations with strangers feels awkward and unnatural, not smooth or relaxed like in most of Europe. By default, there is a "cold wall" between strangers (similar to New York City, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc).

In fact, Taiwanese themselves will even admit that they are "less open" than foreigners, even Americans. You can ask them yourself. They will admit to it, for it is common knowledge. In Taiwan, only elderly and middle age people talk to strangers freely. Foreigners will too of course. (But what's the point of coming to Taiwan if only foreigners will socialize with you?)

2. The only appropriate way to meet people is to be introduced through friends or groups, or have a connecting routine such as school, work or organized activity.

The problem with this is that it's very LIMITING and RESTRICTIVE, for it means that you have to DEPEND on someone to introduce you to others. If no one introduces you, then you are out of luck and have run into a "cold wall" (pardon the pun). What this means is that you are dependent on others for your social life. You can't just "make it happen" on your own.

You also have to depend on GROUPS. You see, in Taiwan, everything is done in groups. People go out in groups. They make friends in groups. They meet people in groups. They travel in groups. They even think in groups (like a hive mind). An individual is worthless and insignificant in Taiwan, and seen as a loser without a group. Hence, Taiwan is not for the individualist. Rather, it is for the empty conformist with no individual identity who seeks to follow and conform.

However, even if you do meet people through introductions or groups, it won't be easy to connect with them (for all the reasons mentioned in this article). Taiwanese and Foreigners are on very different wavelengths and will likely not have much in common, even though they may be polite to each other's face. Broad minded individualist foreigners and insular group-oriented Taiwanese do not vibe naturally.

Furthermore, even if you do break into a clique (a closed exclusive social circle) your social life is still going to be LIMITED to within that clique. The whole clique scene is very rigid an limiting, similar to how it is in the US. Again, you can't just "go out and meet people." Taiwan's social scene is no doubt very closed and cliquish.

3. Young adults in Taiwan are painfully shy, insecure, nonassertive, and lack confidence and social skills (especially females).

It takes confidence, assertiveness and social skills to talk to strangers. Sadly, they've been subjected to extreme amounts of fear and abuse during their childhood growing up. Their behavior is conditioned through "negative reinforcement" in the form of fear, abuse, scolding, guilt trips, overly strict parenting, etc.

The result of this is that they become weak, insecure, subservient, and taught to live in fear by their parents, peers, culture and media. While this is true in America to an extent too, it's taken to a bigger extreme in Taiwan. Only when they reach middle age do Taiwanese people become confident enough to talk to strangers. But before that, they are too insecure, nonassertive and shy to talk to strangers. This is yet another reason why it's so hard to meet people in Taiwan.

So you see, there are multiple obstacles and factors that go against you when it comes to social life in Taiwan. I don't have to tell you that when everything is going against you, then you are in the wrong scene.

(Note: While the above may not apply to Westernized Taiwanese, you will not see many of them in Taiwan because most of them will either be living overseas, or taking extensive trips abroad, where they fit in better. Also, not surprisingly, Taiwanese Americans and Asian Americans (whose personalities are Westernized) will usually not be comfortable living in Taiwan. Not only do they not fit in with the culture, but they will be constantly expected to be something they are not - a local Taiwanese. This will lead to an identity crisis and conflict, because they are accustomed to acting American or Westernized and asserting themselves as proud individuals. But Taiwan will not be conducive to that at all. Asians are not supposed to act like Westerners in Taiwan. If they do, it will look "freakish". Thus, an Americanized Taiwanese will feel like they cannot "be themselves" in Taiwan, which is very awkward indeed. They can't even speak English out loud without drawing shocking stares.)

4. Taiwanese are like empty shells with no soul or emotions.

Even if you make a lot of friends in Taiwan, you eventually realize that these friends are really just casual acquaintances, because there is no real connection with them. Taiwanese are like empty shells with no soul or emotions, like plastic mannequins (similar to America, but even worse). Their faces are passionless and robotic, as if their soul and humanity has been squashed, suppressed or drained out of them.

It's very sad and scary, like an inhuman society from the Twilight Zone. I've seen some of the older generation Taiwanese show some semblance of having a soul or emotions, but the young adult generation definitely seem empty and hollow with plastic exteriors. Thus, the friendships you make in Taiwan will ultimately be unsatisfying.

It's also kind of depressing when you see that people are empty shells here because it leaves you wondering "How can humans descend into such a state of being?" What's scary is that you know deep down that you don't want to become like them, thus hanging around them could have a toxic negative effect on you.

What's worse, most young Taiwanese are duds with no personality and can't even hold a normal conversation. There is nothing really there to connect with. They are the least engaging youngsters I've ever met - usually quiet with nothing to say and no expression (except for very superficial ones). When you talk to them, after a few minutes or few sentences, the conversation runs dry, like you've run into a brick wall with nothing more to say. Asking them open ended questions about themselves, like interviewers do, will not change any of this. (if it did, I wouldn't have a problem engaging them) They are like empty shells.

5. Taiwanese are extremely cold and uptight in their body language and expression.

I don't know about you, but I find it very hard to relax, be happy or even be myself around people who look so uptight and anal-retentive. It kind of "rubs me the wrong way" is how I would put it. I guess if you are cold and uptight yourself, you may not see anything wrong with it, since they are the same as you. But if you are not, then it can be very awkward to be around people who are, especially if you come from a culture where people are not like that at all. The point here is that being constantly surrounded by very cold uptight people is obviously not conducive to happiness, fun or relaxation at all.

6. If you like meeting girls, or are seeking a date or girlfriend, there are a multitude of major obstacles against you.

a) First, Taiwanese females simply do not like being introduced to male strangers (unless they are desperate, but if that's the case, then they are likely older and/or unattractive). Instead, they prefer to meet guys through the clique of friends that they grew up with, or the clique at their school or work. So if you didn't grow up in their "circle", then you are pretty much "out". And if you are "out", the bad news, as you might have guessed, is that their "cliques" are NOT inclusive at all.

b) Second, Taiwanese people are reluctant to introduce females for some reason, probably because their females are not comfortable with it (or they are too picky). Although Taiwanese often like to joke about introducing a single female to a single male, they rarely follow through with it. In this regard, they are "all talk and no action". However, even if you are introduced to a female, suffice to say, females who need to be "introduced" tend to not be attractive or even fun to hang out with.

c) Third, Taiwanese young females are not very open or approachable. They are generally uptight, stiff, closed, and have a cold wall around them. Even worse, most are also insecure, fearful, fragile and lack confidence and social skills. Thus they are not even comfortable with meeting guys. Such traits are huge obstacles to single heterosexual males no doubt, but unfortunately are the usual traits of Taiwanese females. There is even a social rule in Taiwan that "girls don't talk to strangers, especially male strangers".

d) Fourth, most Taiwanese girls have no personality and no social skills. They are duds who can't hold a normal conversation and are not engaging at all. When they do talk, the things they say will be very superficial and meaningless. Thus, there is nothing really there to connect with. Asking them open ended questions about themselves, like interviewers do, will not change any of this. (if it did, I wouldn't have a problem engaging them) In contrast, girls in most other countries (Europe, Russia, Philippines, Mainland China, etc.) are far easier to engage in a natural normal conversation. So you gotta wonder, what's the problem with Taiwan?

e) Fifth, to make matters worse, modern Taiwanese females have difficult personalities and many hang ups. They will drop a guy for the smallest things at the drop of a hat. They are very judgmental, cold, unromantic, and act like flaky divas. Materialism has corrupted and spoiled them, making them more and more like American girls now. Deep down, they are childish and have terrible communication skills. Older generation Taiwanese often complain that young girls mumble and speak too fast, and are hard to understand.

f) Sixth, to make things worse, in the few nightclubs and discos that exist in Taiwan, guys always outnumber girls. Every girl is with a closed group of friends, male date, or "Jimmy" which is a male friend in her clique that shields her from outside strangers. This of course, pits the numerical odds against you. As in the US, there are many guys competing for a few girls. But these girls are not even open to talking strangers, as already mentioned.

So you see, when it comes to meeting females and getting dates in Taiwan, there is a LOT going against you, a whole multitude of obstacles in fact. It's like everything is against you. If that doesn't totally suck, then I don't know what does. None of this, of course, is conducive to dating or romance.

Moreover, even if you do find a partner in Taiwan, still, your options are limited in that you are essentially "taking what you can get" (aka "settling") rather than having a wide array of choices. Unless of course, you have low standards.

Now, this might sound bad, but it's true: Taiwanese females don't become open and friendly with strangers until they reach middle age - at which time they are no longer desirable and are most likely taken as well. This is a classic case of Murphy's Law: When they are young and desirable, they are not open or friendly with strangers and not easy to meet at all. But when they are no longer young or desirable (and either taken or desperate if not) then they start to become friendly and more sociable with strangers. I know that might sound bad, but it's true. (If that offends anyone, then I apologize. No offense was intended. But please remember, I didn't make things the way they are. So please don't blame the messenger.)

7. The Taiwanese psyche is completely dominated by fear and guilt.

As a result of abusive psychological conditioning, Taiwanese emotions are suppressed and internalized. They are taught not to express themselves, but to be humble, submissive and obedient.

Deep down, they live in perpetual fear and worry about every little thing. While caution is a good thing, they overdo it and take it to the extreme, imagining the worst in every scenario even when it's unwarranted. As a result, they never truly live. You can feel the "fear vibe" of the Taiwanese masses when you are in their proximity. They also harbor constant guilt about not measuring up or not being "good enough". None of this is conducive to a "friendly and open" social atmosphere of course.

What you should know is that if you are in Taiwan long term, eventually the "fear energy" of the people will rub off on you and affect you negatively as well. Even if you are a person who does not believe in living in fear, like a hippie or New Ager, it will still eventually affect you, especially since you are eating their food, which is produced from "fear consciousness". (Remember that the thoughts, emotions and energy of the person preparing your food goes into the food as well.)

This is a downside of Taiwan that is rarely mentioned, if ever, because people are in denial about it and are not conditioned to look deeper. Instead, they are conditioned to only care about working and raising a family, and other practical matters on the surface.

8. Taiwan is a strict business-oriented and workaholic society which teaches that the only things that matter are making money and food.

Personal happiness and feelings are seen as irrelevant and worthless. All that matters is work, productivity and conformity. People are conditioned to be stiff, repressed, and act like cold zombies without soul, heart or emotion. It's very sad and makes them almost inhuman and robotic-like. There is no free expression or creativity or thinking for yourself. It's all about conformity. The individual is nothing. The only "passion" one is allowed to have is passion for work and productivity (no surprise there).

That's why it goes without saying that Taiwan is not a very fun place, since none of this is conducive to "fun" at all. Though the concept of "fun" is relative, the kind of fun I'm talking about is the highly festive free-spirited free-flowing heartfelt type of fun that exists in much of Europe, Mexico, Latin America, Russia, Philippines and Thailand. (If you've been there, you'll know what I mean) The fact is, Taiwanese are extremely uptight. They do not radiate warmth or emotion. Even when they are trying to have fun, you will never see them truly "let loose".

Also, Taiwan is not a place for one who values personal happiness either, since that doesn't even matter in Taiwanese culture. Besides, how can you be happy around people who are extremely cold and uptight and dominated by fear? I find it hard to relax or be myself around such people. Eventually, their vibes will affect you as well.

Further, such a repressed workaholic culture will also not provide venues for you to pursue your "happiness", unless of course your happiness is derived from living a monotonous workaholic lifestyle with little interest in much else.

In Taiwan, practically everyone is a conformist. Thus, they will conform to the workaholic culture with very little else to live for. How can that possibly be conducive to happiness? It can't. Trying to find an nonconformist in Taiwan is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Even if they exist, they will be silent and alienated, or they will leave the country. Finding an "outspoken nonconformist and freethinker" is a near impossibility. (Not to brag, but I seem to be the only one)

9. Taiwan is a very prudish and conservative culture in the extreme.

No public display of affection is allowed, such as kissing between couples. And TV soap operas and dramas that are produced in Taiwan almost never show people kissing or showing any physical affection.

Flirting is a big taboo in Taiwan. It is considered dirty creepy behavior. Taiwanese females do not flirt back with males. They do not allow gentlemen to kiss their hand, like women in Europe do. And they do not greet people with kisses on both cheeks, like European females do. On the flip side, a Taiwanese American girl in Taipei wrote me once and told me that when she tries to flirt with Taiwanese guys, they do not reciprocate but instead get weirded out.

Obviously, none of this is conducive to romance, love or passion. I don't even need to tell you that. In fact, if you observe Taiwanese couples, you will notice that they even act cold and uptight around each other. They do not appear "in love" or romantic, and they often eat together in silence with very little to say to each other. What this means is that even if you are in a relationship with a Taiwanese, it is likely to be dull and cold, devoid of warmth, romance or passion.

In truth, Taiwan is best suited for the conservative prim and proper type, not for those who are wild, open and passionate. To fit into the social environment, you have to act innocent and goody-two-shoes to the point of cheesiness. If that's not you, then you will constantly have to act like something you are not, just to fit in. I don't have to tell you that suppression of your true self is not good for you mentally or emotionally in the long run.

I find that the type of people that seem to fit best in Taiwan are those who are conservative, goody-two-shoes, passive, reserved, simple, group-oriented, conformist, narrow, and not very intellectual or deep. (But of course, I am the opposite of those things) The two traits I find most common in foreigners living in Taiwan long term are "reserved and passive".

10. The reckless, dangerous and rude driving on Taiwan's streets and roads is stressful and annoying to deal with.

Taiwanese cities, even the small ones, are way too cramped and packed with too many scooters and vehicles. Driving is not an enjoyable experience in Taiwan, but a stressful one that can cause tempers to flare. It is also hard to park if you are driving a car. And if you are driving a scooter, then you are taking chances with your life because scooter accidents can be fatal. None of this is conducive to happiness, peace or relaxation.

On top of all this, there is not much beautiful scenery or nature in Taiwan, and the architecture and buildings are ugly and drab. The climate is often unpleasant and the air is humid and not very clean or crisp. (by American standards that is) It's also hard to find open fields, prairies or pastures.

Also, the culture is boring and flat, and does not even feel inclusive. There is nothing to grow your soul. Time just passes by and is wasted with no meaning or special memories. Eventually, you regret the time you waste in Taiwan, which could be better spent elsewhere.

Simple test to verify my claims

If you doubt what I say above, or have never been to Taiwan, then here is a simple way to test what I mean. Try getting as many Taiwanese as possible to shake your hand, especially women, because women tend to conform to the culture (which in this case is a prudish culture) more strictly than men do. More so than men, women are more prone to caring about trends, what others think of them, their social standing, and about following traditions. And as any guy can attest to, women are also more easily influenced/swayed by media advertising (which is why advertisers overwhelmingly tend to target women rather than men of course).

Therefore, women will generally reflect their culture more strongly than men, which means that they will be an accurate barometer of their culture. To most women, truth is relative - it's whatever their culture tells them, whatever is popular, and whatever their friends say, not something you derive at through logic, reason, evidence and critical thinking. (Again, no offense intended. That's just how women generally are.)

Anyway, I ask you to do this experiment because a person's handshake reveals their inner level of confidence and comfort level. And a handshake, unlike a hug or a kiss, is a noncontroversial social gesture that can be done with people you don't know well. After shaking many Taiwanese hands, you will notice the following:

a) Most handshakes will be polite, but weak and soft, like cold fish. This will especially be the case with female hands. What this means is that the person is insecure, fearful, shy and not confident or assertive.

b) The only firm grips you might get will be from older Taiwanese (mostly male) who are accustomed to shaking hands with clients in business or sales occupations.

c) Even if you get a firm handshake, you will not feel any true warmth, nor any intensity or passion at all. You will notice that their skin and vibe feel more cold, robotic and reptilian-like. This is reflective of their emotions and state of being, which is repressed and prudish to a high degree. It's almost like shaking hands with a robot or android.

Go ahead and try this experiment. Eventually, you will see what I mean.

The taboo and hypocrisy of talking about all this

In spite of all this, wherever you are in the world, including Taiwan, there is like this unspoken social rule that you always have to say "People are very friendly here" even if it's not true. All major travel websites and travel TV programs abide by this rule, and will say "people are so friendly" everywhere they go. To say otherwise in any particular place, even if it's true, is a big no no. Isn't it stupid that you have to say something that you know isn't true (lie) to avoid offending others?

It is simply not considered polite or cool to say that people around you are unfriendly or closed and stuck up. Instead, one is only allowed to say, "I am shy and not outgoing, so I don't meet people often" or "I work a lot and am very busy so I don't have time to get out and meet people."

But if you say, "I am outgoing and open, but people around me are very closed, stuck up, don't talk to strangers, and have a cold wall around them" it will draw shocks and disturbed looks from people, no matter how true, because no one would dare to say that openly. It is simply uncool and politically incorrect to say such a thing. Doesn't it SUCK when you can't say the truth?

The problem with the acceptable statements above is that they falsely presuppose that general people around you are very friendly, outgoing and easy to meet, and that all you have to do is be outgoing yourself and you will meet people and make friends. But this is NOT TRUE if you are in a culture or place where people are not open or friendly. In my experience, as long as you are friendly and sociable, then it mostly depends on location.

Also, have you noticed that it is ok for people to BE unfriendly, but if you SAY that "people here are unfriendly" then it's a taboo and social violation? In other words, you can be unfriendly, but you can't say that people are unfriendly. Is that weird and hypocritical or what?

[xiongmao]

OMG man, you need to leave that crazy island and go visit me.

I watched Mythbusters last night, that episode where they test cabin fever.

I think you have cabin fever, and need to get off that island.

Oh, I'm not in China yet, but I will be soon. Today I sold my Star Wars DVDs, soon my entire house will be sold, then I'm free to go meet those white legged ladies.

[Winston]

It's easy to sell DVD's, but not a house. Are you going to make a profit from the sale of the house, or will you take a loss?

What is cabin fever?

Yeah I showed my big Russia photo albums to my uncle and aunt. My uncle said that people in mainland China are definitely more open than in Taiwan. So I wonder why some say that people in China aren't that open either? Strange.

Do those 7 reasons above make sense? Do they back up my claims with logical points and factors?

[momopi]

IMO the #1 obstacle to Winston's social life in TW today is his age and circumstance. If he was half of his age and attending an University in TW as ABC, his social life options would be far greater.


NTU University graduation student performance:








Ming Chan University Student Party:


Lienhe University Student end of year dance performance:


National Central University girls:


Kaoshiung University:



National TW university of arts (a little more class ;p )


======================================


Taiwan high school dance performance (warning: look but no touch!):


For comparison, Japanese high school dance performance:



If you walk around the underground MRT stations in Taipei, there are areas used by students for dance practice. Man these girls put my school's CSA performances to shame X_X

Anyways, commenting on the student parties, how it was done here (in California) is that we did joint CSU Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese student association dance parties with couple hundred people, and we rent the whole club for private event. So unless if you're invited, you'd never get through the door. Almost everyone were CSU students and "age appropriate", we did not have any 40+ year old goldfish uncles in the club trying to hit on 20 year old girls. I'm not 100% sure how it's done in TW, but I'd guess that their university students prolly rent the whole club too.

[ryanx]

Hmmm...

[OutWest]

Winston-

You are not one of the boys at a club. You are entering middle age, and most places, the life of a middle age man is quite different than the dating/courting prospects of young men. Whatever the reasons, there are some places that older men can do better, especially if they make an effort.The Philippines is one of those as you know.

From here on, Taiwan and most other places will totally suck for you. You are deluding yourself to think otherwise. So take one of the world's exceptions and make the most of it. If you come back to the Philippines, don't do something dumb like go to AC! That is a grimy soulless rut. Branch out...get a little apartment up in Baguio and shake things up a bit.Leave hot and sticky AZ whoretown behind.

Work to double your online income...by that time your life should be much improved...

Some food for thought...

Outwest

[Winston]

Momopi, Outwest,
Yes but you forget that when I was 17, I lived in Taiwan for a year, but there was no eye contact with strangers and people had the same COLD body language too.

How many times do I have to repeat that to you?

Stop spinning this into being about me. It's about THEM!

The 7 reasons I outlined about Taiwan above are VERY ACCURATE, and you know it, especially you Momopi.

Momopi:
When we were at the night market in Taipei, you felt the cold vibes too, so you were afraid to approach as well. When I dared you, you came up with a bunch of excuses. First you said that you weren't dressed right with your plain t-shirt. Then you said there weren't enough girls around to approach, even though I pointed out many of them to you. Then you said that you preferred to strike up a conversation with girls only if you were standing in line with them. You had three excuses in a row for why you couldn't approach girls cold there. Finally, you worked up the courage to chat up a girl that worked in a carnival game booth there. The conversation was polite but cold, and you didn't ask for a phone number, because as you said, it was NOT appropriate to ask a girl's number in Taiwan that you met only once.

Your ACTIONS there say A LOT MORE than any words you can type on a keyboard about how easy and fun Taiwan is. Remember, actions speak louder than words. And your actions corroborated and confirmed everything I said about Taiwan. So you yourself proved my point that day. So you have no right to argue or dispute what I'm saying.

Stop trying to spin things away from the truth. The truth is the truth.

Even if I was 20 again, I love to flirt and Taiwanese girls don't flirt. So my personality would not fit in anyway. To them, dating is a stepping stone to marriage, so they will not casually date someone unless they are considering marriage. It's a very conservative culture. I don't fit into it at all.

[Winston]

Also Momopi,
I've been thinking. I don't buy your claim that "Taiwanese girls are hot in private". Maybe some are, or the ones you know are, but not in general, for a number of reasons:

1) People who are cold and reptilian 24/7 aren't suddenly going to be warm and passionate in bed or in a private room. One cannot change 100 percent who they are at the flip of a switch. That's implausible and not how people are.

Are you claiming that Taiwanese are as warm and passionate as Latinas, once they are in a private room? lol. No way. Do you even have anything to compare them to? Have you made love to a warm sensuous passionate Latina, Momopi?

2) Taiwanese couples in public look cold to each other too. They eat in silence with little to talk about. They do not look romantic, passionate, or full of feeling for each other. They don't even look happy. The guy doesn't even grab the girls hand like in the movies.

3) If you shake hands with Taiwanese people, you can sense their coldness filled with fear and insecurity. Body language says a lot, and so do handshakes. A handshake, though trivial, reveals your inner state of mind. Taiwanese hands are like cold fish, especially those of females. What does that tell you? But of course, women tend to give weak uptight handshakes for some reason.

4) Some guys say that Taiwanese girls suck in bed.

5) The prostitutes I've had in Taiwan were pretty cold, like cold fish. There was no warmth or passion in them at all. The bar girls I slept with in the Philippines had a lot more passion, intensity and gripped me tight. The sex was a lot more human-like in the Philippines. I know these are whores, but women reflect the culture, as you know, and these are women. Not all whores are cold. The ones in the Philippines are a lot more warm and human than in Taiwan. Why is that? Why the difference? Why aren't they the same everywhere?

The whores in Taiwan must come from poor families too right? If so, then why aren't the "poor girls" in Taiwan as warm and passionate as in the Philippines? Can you explain that?

Isn't this a cultural thing then? If coldness is a cultural thing, then how can you claim that the coldness reverses itself 100 percent once they are in a private room?

Have you only made love to East Asian girls? Do you have anything to compare them to?

[Winston]

Three surprises for you all:

On my Facebook wall and group, several people corroborated what I said about Taiwan, including Gits Ferrari, author of "Not Sars Just Sex", who is a member of our forum.

Here is one of them:

Garry Krimotat: I'm not sure this is the direct answer you seek but here goes. My experience was largely the same as yours so I can relate to your frustration - spent two weeks in Taiwan in early June - the girls in Taiwan are beautiful and educated but there is a distance that I can feel. Not sure if finding the reason or reasons 'Why' (they are so cold and distant) will help you change them or develop a strategy to crack their shell - could be a waste of time. You did in passing note what worked for you and that is 'being introduced' - if you can't change the system at least you can 'play' the system - I found things went much much much better for me when I was 'introduced' as well - start a thread on 'How to be introduced' and I think it would be smoother sailing from there.

Gits Ferrari admitted that even as a white guy in Taipei, he gets no eye contact from strangers:

David Stig Hansen: I liked the last guys answer, on the forum, regarding, it's considered impolite to look at someone. You talk about the white guy double standard, since you're asian but even I rarely get direct eye contact in this town. It's just part of the culture.

Also, remember that Siberian girl that invited me to the nightclub in Chiayi? The one in the photos here: viewtopic.php?t=14359

Well she didn't like Taiwan either. When she went back to Siberia, I asked her if she missed Taiwan. Her response was:

Hello Winston! How are oyu doing? I dont miss taiwan. I really do not miss it, maybe just tea ))))
i am happy here. everything is real here, people, emotions, etc.
that girl she is a friend of mine on Facebook. I can ask her. when are you leaving taiwan? I wish I could travel around.
what do you think about dec 21?
take care, hope you answer me soon xxx

As you can see, she is effectively saying that people are "real" in Siberia with "real" emotions, whereas they are NOT in Taiwan.

Why would she say that if Taiwan was so warm and friendly and had a great social scene, as devil's advocates like Momopi and Celery are trying to insinuate?

Also, she said that when she fell off her bike in Taiwan, no one stopped to help her, whereas in Siberia, people would have stopped to help her and see if she was ok. How do you explain that?

So you see, there is A LOT OF TRUTH in what I'm saying. I'm RIGHT after all, and you know it, and I know it.

Momopi, here's a key question for you: I am outgoing with strangers. Taiwanese girls are NOT. So how am I the problem? Can you explain?

You do understand that cliques are exclusive right? Do you always believe that the majority is right?

[momopi]

1. Not only do you recycle your rants, you also recycle your questions across multiple threads?
viewtopic.php?t=13779&postdays=0&postor ... &start=105

2. How many times have I said "TW is not an easy dating place" and specified in-group/out-group boundaries as "stone walls" and "brick walls'?
viewtopic.php?t=13779&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Momopi, Outwest,
Yes but you forget that when I was 17, I lived in Taiwan for a year, but there was no eye contact with strangers and people had the same COLD body language too.
How many times do I have to repeat that to you?
Stop spinning this into being about me. It's about THEM!

3. You seem to think that it requires zero social skills to make friends at school. So had you continued on to attend college in TW in your younger years, you should've had a better social life in TW than now right?
viewtopic.php?p=113413#113413

4. This is not about TW. This is all about YOU. I sincerely hope that you won't be recycling the same rants in Jan 2014. You've already been at this since 2008. You're a middle-aged man now, and you ain't getting any younger.

5. Please pack your luggage and go to China.

[OutWest]

Momopi, Outwest,
Yes but you forget that when I was 17, I lived in Taiwan for a year, but there was no eye contact with strangers and people had the same COLD body language too.

How many times do I have to repeat that to you?

Stop spinning this into being about me. It's about THEM!

The 7 reasons I outlined about Taiwan above are VERY ACCURATE, and you know it, especially you Momopi.

Momopi:
When we were at the night market in Taipei, you felt the cold vibes too, so you were afraid to approach as well. When I dared you, you came up with a bunch of excuses. First you said that you weren't dressed right with your plain t-shirt. Then you said there weren't enough girls around to approach, even though I pointed out many of them to you. Then you said that you preferred to strike up a conversation with girls only if you were standing in line with them. You had three excuses in a row for why you couldn't approach girls cold there. Finally, you worked up the courage to chat up a girl that worked in a carnival game booth there. The conversation was polite but cold, and you didn't ask for a phone number, because as you said, it was NOT appropriate to ask a girl's number in Taiwan that you met only once.

Your ACTIONS there say A LOT MORE than any words you can type on a keyboard about how easy and fun Taiwan is. Remember, actions speak louder than words. And your actions corroborated and confirmed everything I said about Taiwan. So you yourself proved my point that day. So you have no right to argue or dispute what I'm saying.

Stop trying to spin things away from the truth. The truth is the truth.

Even if I was 20 again, I love to flirt and Taiwanese girls don't flirt. So my personality would not fit in anyway. To them, dating is a stepping stone to marriage, so they will not casually date someone unless they are considering marriage. It's a very conservative culture. I don't fit into it at all.

Winston-

Who cares if it is YOU or THEM? YOU cannot change THEM. YOU can only change things by being somewhere you like better, so that it is a different THEM that YOU are around. That is the point.

Can you change things in Taiwan? If not, work it out to be somewhere else. You are not without skills with what you have learned to make money online, just amp that up a bit and go for it somewhere better. After all, your happiness is about YOU, not THEM.
Screw them...just work it out to move on to different pastures.

Jeeze Winston, you are so caught in your misery you are not recognizing a friendly post when you see one. The point is, if Taiwan sucks that bad, make plans to move on and then act on them...another place in the Philippines? Thailand?


Outwest


PS: As far as that goes, my limited time in Taiwan- only a few days, and most of my contact with Taiwanese leads me to think that most of them are pretty uptight anal retentive types. I would have ZERO interest in living there.

[ryanx]

Taiwan high school dance performance (warning: look but no touch!):

At 2:08 what is she doing?! Is that even allowed!

[momopi]

Taiwan high school dance performance (warning: look but no touch!):

At 2:08 what is she doing?! Is that even allowed!

...that's why I said "look but don't touch" (possibly underage HS girls)



@#%# server migration @ work complete, off to bed...! Z_Z

[Winston]

Momopi,
You are right that I spend too much time whining about Taiwan. But my family is here. I can't avoid it. What I'm doing is exposing the TRUTH about Taiwan on the web, since no one else will. Everyone else is afraid to tell these truths because they are "uncool" to mention. Plus, I am counterbalancing all the LIES that the fake TV entertainer Janet Hsieh is spreading about Taiwan being so amazing, wonderful and friendly. She dominates Taiwan TV, but she has hardly any presence on the web, and her site gets hardly any traffic. So I can dominate the flow of information on the web at least, since my site is way more active and higher ranked than hers is. Countering lies with truth is a good thing isn't it?

Oh well, at least you agree that my observations about Taiwan are CORRECT and TRUE. They are not wrong. I am not lying to anyone or deceiving anyone. At least respect me for that.

Btw Momopi, those videos you posted of performing artists on stage mean nothing. Try to talk to those performers when they are offstage, and you will be in for a shock, when you see that they are even COLDER and more SHIELDED than American girls are. At least American girls know how to be fake friendly, whereas these Taiwanese girls cannot.

Btw all, I revised the part about the obstacles against meeting women in the essay. Here is the new version below. If you are a heterosexual male, this is bad news for you, because these are FIVE BIG OBSTACLES that are AGAINST you in Taiwan! Gee, wonderful isn't it? lol

4. If you like meeting girls, or are seeking a date or girlfriend, there are big multiple obstacles against you as well.

a) First, Taiwanese females simply do not like being introduced to male strangers (unless they are desperate, but if that's the case, then they are likely older and/or unattractive). Instead, they prefer to meet guys through the clique of friends that they grew up with and went to school with. So if you didn't grow up in their "circle", then you are pretty much "out". And if you are "out", the bad news, as you might have guessed, is that their "cliques" are NOT inclusive at all.

b) Second, Taiwanese people are reluctant to introduce females for some reason, probably because their females are not comfortable with it (or they are too picky). Although Taiwanese often like to joke about introducing a single female to a single male, they rarely follow through with it. In this regard, they are "all talk and no action".

c) Third, Taiwanese young females are not very open or relaxed at all. They are uptight, stiff and closed, as well as painfully shy. And they are also very insecure, fearful and lack confidence. Thus they are not even comfortable with meeting guys. Such traits are huge obstacles to single heterosexual males no doubt, but unfortunately, these are the usual traits of Taiwanese females. There is even a social rule in Taiwan that "girls don't talk to strangers, especially male strangers".

d) Fourth, to make matters worse, modern Taiwanese females have difficult personalities and many hang ups. They will drop a guy for the smallest things at the drop of a hat. They are very judgmental, cold, unromantic, and act like flaky divas. Materialism has corrupted and spoiled them, making them more and more like American girls now. Deep down, they are childish and have terrible communication skills. Older generation Taiwanese often complain that young girls mumble and speak too fast, and are hard to understand.

e) Fifth, to things worse, in the few nightclubs and discos that exist in Taiwan, guys always outnumber girls. Every girl is with a closed group of friends, male date, or "Jimmy" which is a male friend in her clique that shields her from outside strangers. This of course, pits the numerical odds against you. As in the US, there are many guys competing for a few girls. But these girls are not even open to talking strangers, as already mentioned.

So you see, when it comes to meeting females and getting dates in Taiwan, there is a LOT going against you, a whole multitude of obstacles in fact. It's like everything is against you. If that doesn't totally suck, then I don't know what does.

Now, this might sound bad, but it's true: Taiwanese females don't become open and friendly with strangers until they reach middle age - at which time they are no longer desirable and are most likely taken as well. This is a classic case of Murphy's Law: When they are young and desirable, they are not open or friendly with strangers and not easy to meet at all. But when they are no longer young or desirable (and either taken or desperate if not) then they start to become friendly and more sociable with strangers. I know that might sound bad, but it's true. (If that offends anyone, then I apologize. No offense was intended. But please remember, I didn't make things the way they are. So please don't blame the messenger.)

[gits]

I have recently started working in an office in Taiwan.

When people arrive, I try to say "ni hao" and they grunt. They sit at their desk and don't talk to one another. Office life in Taiwan is hell.