Romance tours seem like a big fat scam...

[publicduende]

I think I have a better chance winning the lottery...twice.

Women all over the world are biologically the same though. If they like your looks they´re in love with you. Doesn´t matter if you speak their language or if they´re poor village girls.

Well, then as you say you're good looking, you should have even more of a head start with any girl, poor or not, foreign or not. What's the problem then?

[WuFan]

I think I have a better chance winning the lottery...twice.

Women all over the world are biologically the same though. If they like your looks they´re in love with you. Doesn´t matter if you speak their language or if they´re poor village girls.

Well, then as you say you're good looking, you should have even more of a head start with any girl, poor or not, foreign or not. What's the problem then?

The problem is I´m not the only good looking guy.

All an average/ugly woman has to do is set up an online dating profile or go to a club and she´ll get hit on by literally hundreds of good looking guys wanting to marry her.

[Winston]

It does seem like a lot of money to go on a romance tour. I think it would be better to just go the country your interested in and try to meet women on your own. This way you save yourself thousands of dollars.

How are you gonna meet women if you´re there by yourself and don´t speak the language?

If you go out by yourself you´re automatically in the foreign loser with no friends category and if you hit on women during the day you´re the creepy sex beggar.

You are talking about Western countries, not foreign countries. You can go out by yourself in Russia and much of Europe and not be seen as a loser. Seriously. It's not like that outside of the US. You can watch my videos and see what I mean. Russia is a paradise for cold approaches. I swear. I have a mountain of proof. It's super easy to meet a lot of girls in Russia in just two days.

You can just use an electronic dictionary, even on your smart phone, to communicate. I did that and it worked fine. Communication barriers aren't that bad as you think. Many Russian girls speak English too. I wrote a lot about this in other threads.

Thanks for telling it like it is based on a solid year of personal in-country experience. $300 for entry into 1 social sounds quite pricey. But the package fees charged by AFA and others sometimes mentioned here seem way out of line with common sense to me. Well, it makes sense if u r the kind of guy who can blow US$10 K without batting an eye. But for guys on a budget, US$1,000++ per social is just terrible value for money.

Everything I've read indicates the Ukraine was long ago fully explored and exploited, at least the key cities. - good for P4P and various forms of sponsorship. But much better chances for real relationship can be had in areas off the beaten path, perhaps Minsk? Even less user friendly but if you can get a degree of fluency in Russian and get a feel for what's going on, might be a great experience.

What do you mean? Romance tours usually cost at least $3,000, so $300 was a steal. He got a 90 percent discount.

[Winston]

Women ruined my youth so I want to make up for lost time. I was thinking of whoring around in Thailand first and f**k a couple hundred girls to get it out of my system and then marry a sweet, hot and young eastern european girl when I´m 30 and spend the rest of my life with her.

I´m 23, white, tall, big dick and about a 7 or 8 lookswise.

Can you post a picture of yourself? lol

You can go to Thailand and f**k a few hundred girls first. However, when you get used to that, it makes you lose your ability to fall in love and have a real relationship. The whole process becomes cheap to you and you get used to switching partners and then you cannot be monogamous anymore. It's hard to explain what I mean. You have to experience it. So there is a price to pay for everything.

Also, when you get addicted to bar girls, it's hard to stop. You tend to prefer the convenience of cheap sex over trying to woo girls the normal way. You lose your patience and tolerance for the normal courting process. In that sense, it sort of ruins your heart and ability to love.

why would it be any different there?

I feel like every place on earth has already been invaded by aroused white men and I´m late to the party.

This forum is a joke. You can´t even say h-o-r-n-y? WTF.

Not every place. Kazahkstan and Krygyzstan are untainted frontiers that are great for international dating. We have some threads about that here. Also China, with its huge population, is also a treasure land of cuties. And Russia has thousands of towns and villages spread across huge lands ranging from Europe to Asia that are also untainted by foreigners.

[WuFan]

Women ruined my youth so I want to make up for lost time. I was thinking of whoring around in Thailand first and f**k a couple hundred girls to get it out of my system and then marry a sweet, hot and young eastern european girl when I´m 30 and spend the rest of my life with her.

I´m 23, white, tall, big dick and about a 7 or 8 lookswise.

Can you post a picture of yourself? lol

You can go to Thailand and f**k a few hundred girls first. However, when you get used to that, it makes you lose your ability to fall in love and have a real relationship. The whole process becomes cheap to you and you get used to switching partners and then you cannot be monogamous anymore. It's hard to explain what I mean. You have to experience it. So there is a price to pay for everything.

Also, when you get addicted to bar girls, it's hard to stop. You tend to prefer the convenience of cheap sex over trying to woo girls the normal way. You lose your patience and tolerance for the normal courting process. In that sense, it sort of ruins your heart and ability to love.

lol, I´ll never post my pic on here.

As I said I´ve permanently lost the abilty to fall in love. I don´t believe it´s possible to "woo" girls either. She knows within seconds after looking at your face if she´s in love with you or not. Women are just as visual as guys. It´s just that some poor women will date a guy with money because they want security, but not because they´re sexually attracted to him.

The problem is even if I got into a relationship with a girl I like I´ll probably cheat on her because in the back of my mind I´ll always feel like I missed out on so much.

I´m already damaged goods so I might as well f**k a couple hundred girls.

[Winston]

WuFan,
Yeah if that's your attitude, then you should go to the bars in Thailand or the Philippines.

Btw, just to let you all know, I found many p4p brothels in Poland with white and asian girls in them at inexpensive rates. So Central and Eastern Europe may be another option for banging a lot of girls for cheap.

[djfourmoney]

Chekov's story sounds legit. You can attend AFA socials if they are in the town you are located in or you take a cheap local bus to their location.

This can reduce the cost significantly.

Maybe I research things to death but I could have told you that you wouldn't be able to go into a social with your own translator. AFA is not a scam at that level, they hire translators for you to use, otherwise it would be a free-for-all and they don't want that. They make you sign a wavier so you can't come back later and say you used my likeness in a video and sue them, its SOP.

Focusing on silly shit like this and not the task at hand means you need to be clear minded going into this.

It is sort of like speed dating and yes at least half the women are not serious at all. Why would it be unusual for a woman to get her heart broken by some unscrupulous Western man???

Happens more often than you think.... Two that stand out are the Colombian woman who had the child of a Married American man (http://www.oprah.com/own-our-america-li ... ding-Story). Here's one from the Lucky Lovers Forum, this Anglo Saxon sees nothing wrong with what he did - http://www.gogabber.com/showthread.php?t=8396

I had a long relationship with a russian girl, which unfortunately ended over some disagreements. She was a wonderful person, beautiful, well educated, well behaved. A kind of a girl that can hardly be found anymore. We travelled to each other places, met each other families etc. She wanted marriage, and tho I didn't disagree, I suggested that we should think about it. I was not sure if I'm ready. That hurt her and I felt really sorry about that. After I thought about everything, I went to her city to ask her for forgivness. But she was quite stubborn and revengeful, so it didn't work out.

If you continue to read he goes on to blame Russian culture and not himself for finding a woman. He FOUND A WOMAN, he's The Grass Must Be Greener type.

Doing this will get you in trouble. Its classic Looking A Gift Horse In The Mouth, she ticked all his personal boxes.

Mark talks about this constantly, you need to be in the right frame of mind. This is not Western dating and you can't approach it the same way. When a woman ticks all your boxes and wants to marry you, you MARRY HER. If your not sure about being married and I think that was it, not so much that she wasn't a good catch. He wasn't ready to get married, wasted his time and money in this pursuit.

Bride Tours are not a scam, they are however full of pitfalls you must be aware of, most men are not prepared for the pitfalls obviously.

[***JP***]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

[The_Hero_of_Men]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

What are some of these alternate "off the beaten path" marriage agencies and romance tour companies?

[djfourmoney]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

Not a total scam a fool and his money are soon parted...

AFA will get you on phone translations which honestly aren't that expensive really. They will get you on sending gifts to your love interest and for demanding a woman's contact information from the web site. Once on the ground because I have talked too or listen to those that have successfully navigated this, if you get scammed ITS YOUR FAULT.

There will be at least 100 women per social and as many as 300 per social (2/3 city tour). Even if more than half those women aren't serious, the other half are and many equally as attractive as the so-called party/good time girls.

JP you are doing WOVO (Write One, Visit One) this works more often than people think. The key is sticking to the one that works hardest to keep your interest. I made this mistake and ended up with nothing.

Keep us (and me by PM) informed with how this goes for you, the more positive stories finding out how and what you did will lead to more men instead of bitching and moaning about Western women doing something about it.

I put this thread under those moaning about not having a "easy solution". There is no such thing as an easy solution...

[***JP***]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

What are some of these alternate "off the beaten path" marriage agencies and romance tour companies?

I used this one to meet my fiancee--- http://www.pazintys.lt/ it's not free they do charge a monthly fee but they will not edit your emails and you can send your personal info to any woman that catches your attention. I was able to send my skype to my fiancee and we video chatted for a while getting to know each other. Of course like in any dating site there will be scammers so do watch out for those.

[***JP***]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

Not a total scam a fool and his money are soon parted...

AFA will get you on phone translations which honestly aren't that expensive really. They will get you on sending gifts to your love interest and for demanding a woman's contact information from the web site. Once on the ground because I have talked too or listen to those that have successfully navigated this, if you get scammed ITS YOUR FAULT.

There will be at least 100 women per social and as many as 300 per social (2/3 city tour). Even if more than half those women aren't serious, the other half are and many equally as attractive as the so-called party/good time girls.

JP you are doing WOVO (Write One, Visit One) this works more often than people think. The key is sticking to the one that works hardest to keep your interest. I made this mistake and ended up with nothing.

Keep us (and me by PM) informed with how this goes for you, the more positive stories finding out how and what you did will lead to more men instead of bitching and moaning about Western women doing something about it.

I put this thread under those moaning about not having a "easy solution". There is no such thing as an easy solution...

I will try to keep you guys posted once I'm back in Vilnius. So far it's 64 days remaining and still counting down

[djfourmoney]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

What are some of these alternate "off the beaten path" marriage agencies and romance tour companies?

You aren't paying attention...

VK is the Slavic alternative to Facebook - http://vk.com/

I have an account on VK but haven't found a concrete way to attack it, so I haven't used it yet.

Lucky Lovers is a site I have used, others have used successfully - www.luckylovers.com

Elena's Models is highly regarded - www.elenasmodels.com

For Latin America, I use www.latineuro.com

The only alternative is to DIY (DO IT YOURSELF).

AFA works with local marriage agencies, this infrastructure was already in place. I knew a woman who's mother ran one of these, not online and not for Western men, it was a local agency for local people. Most of the sites listed on formerly Jim's White List are in fact local agencies in Russia or Ukraine, usually outside of the major cities like Kiev or Moscrow/St Pete.

You can go into Russia or Ukraine and most of these agencies will work with you at a much reduced cost, usually only a couple of hundred dollars to meet as many women as you want inside the system.

If you really wanna go off the beaten path, go into the 'Stans or deep into Russia where only the brave go. Eduard's service is expensive but he's completely out of the agency loop, he finds women on sites like VK for his customers. You need to read or speak Russian however, Google Translate doesn't do that great with Russian yet.

You can also look for sites in Mexico, Uruguay, Colombia, etc, I have found a few just keep looking.

Done right, you'll save thousands, but you're still going to have to pay for at least one round-trip plane ticket besides your own. Law Jackson 2 Tours, One Return Trip; Mark Davis 1 tour, 2 Return Trips; My boy Nate 1 trip to Russia (no tour, met online, interracial forum). He sent for her when his K1 was approved (this happens more often than you think).

At min it will cost you one round-trip to see her (doesn't matter where) and if agreed one one-way ticket for her. If she's not from a EU member state or the UK, you're going to have to pay for K1 (self filed about $700). If you want to live in her country, then much of this is moot, but if you want her to meet your family at some point, you need to get her status cleared up and you'll need to apply for a Green Card (I-485 I believe) which is I think about $300.

So it will cost you at least $2400-$2500 if she's from a restricted country (FSU, South America, Caribbean). If she's from an EU country you can work out who pays for what, that's the advantage of a woman from a vastly more mature economy. That's not to say you can't find a woman from a middle class background who earns Western levels of income its just not likely.

One of the often not talked about themes is you are using your economic advantage to find these women, they are not going to have as much money as you do in most cases even if your broke by Western standards.

Just to give you some hope, my friend Nate was a student when he met Dinara who was also a student (exchange) from Russia. They never met in person until he took a trip to Russia where she had returned once her student visa ran out. They used MSN and Skype extensively during that time. There was a point where there was a misunderstanding and they briefly broke up (after he returned to the US). They sorted that out and decided to get married. He filed for K1, when it was approved he sent for her, she's been in the US since that point (2009), they married in a small wedding with just his family and a few friends, it was not expensive. They recently returned to Russia to have another wedding/reception just for her family and friends.

I will have a Skype interview with Nate and possibly Dinara his wife on my blog, I will keep you posted when that happens.

[djfourmoney]

Well I don't believe in those pricey so called marriage agencies. The only advice I can give to you guys and I have mentioned it on other posts is to take time and research in a internet search engine for the local dating sites of the countries you guys want to go to. Some of the sites will not give you the ability to translate to English but there's always google translate. That is the method I used and that is how I joined a local lithuanian site to meet my fiancee. Ukraine also has that alternative to facebook also and I have read here that some men have met women on that site too. I think the website is called VK. Those sites like anastasia and a foreign affair which are the most popular ones are nothing but a huge scam. Just do a little bit of research and you will find alternatives that are not gonna rip you off. Those popular so called marriage agencies also have been notorious for editing your emails so if you send a girl your personal email or instant messenger info they just block it because they want you to keep the pay to read and pay to send email of theirs.

What are some of these alternate "off the beaten path" marriage agencies and romance tour companies?

I used this one to meet my fiancee--- http://www.pazintys.lt/ it's not free they do charge a monthly fee but they will not edit your emails and you can send your personal info to any woman that catches your attention. I was able to send my skype to my fiancee and we video chatted for a while getting to know each other. Of course like in any dating site there will be scammers so do watch out for those.

Thanks for sharing the link, I had read a story about the shortage of young men in Latvia - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11493157

Its not where your going but I think the trend in that part of Europe is normal, I think there's man shortage in Poland, Lithuania and Latvia.

[Jackal]

How are you gonna meet women if you´re there by yourself and don´t speak the language?

If you go out by yourself you´re automatically in the foreign loser with no friends category and if you hit on women during the day you´re the creepy sex beggar.

You are talking about Western countries, not foreign countries. You can go out by yourself in Russia and much of Europe and not be seen as a loser. Seriously. It's not like that outside of the US. You can watch my videos and see what I mean. Russia is a paradise for cold approaches. I swear. I have a mountain of proof. It's super easy to meet a lot of girls in Russia in just two days.

You can just use an electronic dictionary, even on your smart phone, to communicate. I did that and it worked fine. Communication barriers aren't that bad as you think. Many Russian girls speak English too. I wrote a lot about this in other threads.

Winston gave a great answer above.

It's okay to go to bars alone in Europe. It might feel a bit nerve-wracking and scary at first, but if you have a bit of courage, it's okay, and you won't be stigmatized if you look relaxed. But every bar has a different crowd of people and some will be good for you and some will be bad.

You may be a "foreign loser" in some places, but in others, you may very well be the "nice foreign guy with lots of interesting stories to tell" and beautiful women may want to practice their English with you. It depends on both your appearance and on the vibe you give off. If you always act scared and angry, then guaranteed no one will want to hang out with you!

Don't let America mindfuck you with fear so much that you CAN'T live anywhere else because your head is so full of imagined problems.

In Eastern Europe, I think you can hit on women just about anywhere (except maybe in a church or in a courtroom lol).