Guidelines for the new expat-only forum

[Yohan]

I nominate Travelin Man (the guy living in Hong Kong) Green1976, Yohan and Gsjackson to be part of the forum.

Thanks, but I still do not have any real idea about this new forum or section.

For what should it be good for? Happierabroad so far as I can see covers anyway everything regarding expat-life.

Or do you mean a forum solely to filter out data for living, like housing, visa, costs of living etc. - without any comments regarding women, nightlife?

For sure I do not want to see something like Orientexpat, which is simply said a place of insincere moderation, and as many were banned or left, there are only a few comments per day from the same few members writing to each other.

About racism, it's complicated, what is racist and what is not?
It is difficult to avoid any discussion about the behavior of people of different race, international mixed-race marriage in an expat-forum.

If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.

Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.

If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...

Sorry to ask you, is this a joke?

I am living in foreign countries away from Central Europe since over 40 years, most time in Japan, married to a Japanese woman, have 2 daughters with my wife and a Filipina fosterdaughter, have my own retirement condo in Thailand, just had friends visiting me from Malaysia and you ask me if I know what expat life is?

I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).

I do not oppose moderation in general, but I oppose insincere moderation.

[Cornfed]

I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).

It is interesting to ponder how the restrictions would work out in practice while still enabling any sort of useful discussion. For example, is saying that females from some countries are nicer and better looking than females from other countries racist? If I say that Korean students are academically brighter than Khmer students on average then clearly that would be racist, but might it not also be something that, say, English teachers would want to know? Or take conspiracy theories. If I point out that the way to get a business visa extension in Cambodia is to go through a third party provider and pay an extra fee that for them to split with the bureaucrats providing the visas, then clearly this is alleging a conspiracy to abuse government office for illicit financial gain, so presumably this would not be allowed. But what if it is in fact true? Would someone applying for a visa extension not want to know it?

[Yohan]

@Cornfed
I agree with you.
I was asking myself the same question, and I think it is very difficult to define what is racist hateful speech and what is not.

I know that some requirements for passing successfully tests in schools and some checks for employment in USA and UK were downgraded, as many black students (USA) and women (UK) failed to pass them and if a certain quota is not fulfilled it is race or gender discrimination.

If I complain now about downgraded requirements and about gender specific quotas and insist that only those people who passed the original requirements should get the certificates and employment contracts REGARDLESS their race or gender it makes me a racist and women-hater? Why? Because mostly white men were passing?

Either such discussion is allowed without being worried about being moderated or this is not free speech anymore, but censorship.

In case of an Expat Forum it is really difficult to avoid any race-related discussion. I am white, from Central Europe. Of course, expats like myself are living in Asia among people of different race all time, since decades. I am very sceptical about the bad and overdemanding behavior of white women in Europe and Northern America, does this make me a racist against my own race?

[Cornfed]

The separate section would be a sub-forum for those who actually traveled abroad already, those who have actual experience dating foreign women or those seriously planning to go abroad soon and wishing to get advice. It would be practical in nature and most conversation would therefore also be matters of a practical nature. There would be conversations about race, as there are racial and cultural differences and these can be relevant for those wishing to pursue a foreign women, but they likely wouldn't go into "better or worse", "us vs them" nonsense as this gets us nowhere. One can accept differences between people, learn how to work with these and do so without attaching value to races. I think this would most likely be the tone. The whiners who focus solely on race and other peoples' perceived superiority or inferiority would not be invited. And instead of whining about Western women being lame, we'd be talking about how Asian or Latina women are awesome and how to go about dating one.

So the energy of such a forum would be much more positive. We'd look forward, not backwards, and propel others into action. Too much whining about our problems at home only makes for a negative and unproductive environment, in my experience, especially when it comes from people who to my knowledge lack the experience and attitude to actually give useful commentary on the things that are being discussed.

You'd still be able to discuss their racial theories, only they would do so on a specific portion of the website. Acknowledging differences between races or ethnic groups can be done in a polite way, more fitting to the new expat board. Does this in any way sound unreasonable?

Not so much unreasonable as complete gibberish.

[zboy1]

I nominate Travelin Man (the guy living in Hong Kong) Green1976, Yohan and Gsjackson to be part of the forum.

Thanks, but I still do not have any real idea about this new forum or section.

For what should it be good for? Happierabroad so far as I can see covers anyway everything regarding expat-life.

Or do you mean a forum solely to filter out data for living, like housing, visa, costs of living etc. - without any comments regarding women, nightlife?

For sure I do not want to see something like Orientexpat, which is simply said a place of insincere moderation, and as many were banned or left, there are only a few comments per day from the same few members writing to each other.

About racism, it's complicated, what is racist and what is not?
It is difficult to avoid any discussion about the behavior of people of different race, international mixed-race marriage in an expat-forum.

If you don't know what the meaning of expat life is...and can't tell the difference of what is racism or not, maybe you are not the type of person that should be in the new forum, then.

Is probably better that you post on the regular forum, since you oppose moderation.

If you want, I will probably leave you out of the forum then...

Sorry to ask you, is this a joke?

I am living in foreign countries away from Central Europe since over 40 years, most time in Japan, married to a Japanese woman, have 2 daughters with my wife and a Filipina fosterdaughter, have my own retirement condo in Thailand, just had friends visiting me from Malaysia and you ask me if I know what expat life is?

I was asking you what topics should this new forum include and what is excluded?
I was also asking what is your definition of racism, which I consider more or less US-related, or maybe former British colony history related (South Africa for example).

I do not oppose moderation in general, but I oppose insincere moderation.

Travel related topics including living overseas; foreign women and dating; finance related topics related to being overseas; trip-reports; etc. I think you get the picture.

Of course, race-related posts are okay--if related to the subject of international traveling. But, I don't want racial slurs thrown about like in the regular forum, or how one race is superior or inferior to another race; garbage like that belongs in the race section of HA.

Insincere moderation? What does that mean? Would you call RooshV or Return of Kings forums insincere? How about NiceGuy or MGTOW forums? Are they "insincere" since they're heavily moderated and don't allow half the things we allow on HA?

I like that HA is different from those other sites; but I think many of us want a separate section where all the troll posts, off-topic posts and threads, insults, threats, racism and negativity is largely absent--unlike in the regular HA forum. Is that so wrong?

[Yohan]

I like that HA is different from those other sites; but I think many of us want a separate section where all the troll posts, off-topic posts and threads, insults, threats, racism and negativity is largely absent--unlike in the regular HA forum. Is that so wrong?

I do not think, this is wrong what you say.

I cannot help to say however, your line-up of threads, insults, troll-postings etc. is somewhat exaggerated.

Why not to give it a try? You will see the results after a few months or so.

[Yohan]

Insincere moderation? What does that mean? Would you call RooshV or Return of Kings forums insincere? How about NiceGuy or MGTOW forums? Are they "insincere" since they're heavily moderated and don't allow half the things we allow on HA?

MRA-websites or MGTOW forums etc. are rarely 'heavily moderated'.

I was more thinking about pro-feminist websites, like Manboobz when mentioning insincere moderation or outsider/mangina-forums like Orientexpat where a few members are writing to each other and making fun out of anybody who disagrees with them.

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/

http://www.orientexpat.com/

[Cornfed]

Of course, race-related posts are okay--if related to the subject of international traveling. But, I don't want racial slurs thrown about like in the regular forum, or how one race is superior or inferior to another race; garbage like that belongs in the race section of HA.

This makes no sense at all. To acknowledge any differences between races is to assume superiority or inferiority in various contexts.

[Jester]

Old forum:
"Does hitting the gym really help you become Alpha?"


New forum:
"Which gym in Manila has the hottest babes?"

Old forum:
"Why don't American women want me?"

New forum:
"Which one of the five potential girlfriends I am seeing right now should I settle down with?"

Something tells me it'll be one helluva forum!

[Jester]

Another guideline for the new expat section: PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC! This is a huge problem on the main boards, and which shouldn't be tolerated on the expat forum. Crazy, off-topic posts will be deleted.

+1

we all hijack threads, but we can definitely learn not to.

[Jester]

Why will racism be allowed?

Why wouldn't it be allowed? Ethnic differences make up part of the rich tapestry we call life.

good one, Cornfed.

[Jester]

The new forum would focus on getting ahead. Going from A to B. It would not have any people who just stay at home and whine and complain. Of those people we already have far too many, and their comments are ill-informed and not at all helpful. That whole negative vibe will not be on the expat sub-forum.

So Winston is out?

[Jester]

If I point out that the way to get a business visa extension in Cambodia is to go through a third party provider and pay an extra fee that for them to split with the bureaucrats providing the visas...

This is exactly the kind of thing we need more of.

Plus trip reports. Falcon, Xiongmai and others have done great stuff. ZBoy and Winston too. Everdred...

And what about AmericanInBangkok? His whole thing was "on the ground". Getting around, etc.

I still suspect that the new forum will need a non-public section for members only. (Obviously there needs to be some guideline that encourages most discussions to be public.)


Examples of non-public stuff:

--Can you buy marijuana in Timbuktoo?
--Pics of girlfriends
--Where can you expedite residency, and how much should you expect to pay

[Winston]

If I point out that the way to get a business visa extension in Cambodia is to go through a third party provider and pay an extra fee that for them to split with the bureaucrats providing the visas...

This is exactly the kind of thing we need more of.

Plus trip reports. Falcon, Xiongmai and others have done great stuff. ZBoy and Winston too. Everdred...

And what about AmericanInBangkok? His whole thing was "on the ground". Getting around, etc.

I still suspect that the new forum will need a non-public section for members only. (Obviously there needs to be some guideline that encourages most discussions to be public.)


Examples of non-public stuff:

--Can you buy marijuana in Timbuktoo?
--Pics of girlfriends
--Where can you expedite residency, and how much should you expect to pay

Now that I am back home, I will be setting up this new Expat Living forum soon.

For now, I think we should make it publicly viewable. That way, it will serve as a shining role model of how quality forum discussions SHOULD be.

If we want a private forum with discreet topics and questions (like the examples Jester gave above), we can set that up later. However, a discreet board could be infiltrated by some spy with ill will who comes and poses as a legit poster to try to get in, to get people in trouble. So you gotta watch out for that.

If you guys want AmericaninBangkok back, please PM him. If he doesn't respond, then go to his website and contact him on his contact form:
http://www.anamericaninbangkok.com/contact.html

[Winston]

Important announcement:

Ok I created the new expat forum. I called it "Expat Living and Dating VIP Forum". Do you like that title Zboy? You will find it on the forum index page under the Trip Reports forum. Btw, I moved the Trip Reports board up in position on the index page, because it's one of the most important boards. Here is the direct link to the new expat forum:

viewforum.php?f=47

Instructions to Zboy:

I've made you the moderator of the group. To add members to the group, click on "Usergroups" at the top of the forum under the HappierAbroad logo. Then select the name of the group (which is the same as the name of the board) and click "View Information". Then you will be taken to a control panel for the group. To add a member, enter the username in the bottom left corner next to the "Add Member" button. If you need to see the exact spelling of a username, click the "Find a Username" button to open a search field.

You will have to search through this thread from the beginning to see all the members that you agreed to add to the group. It will probably take a while. I've already added a few for you while testing it.

To remove a member, select the member by checking the box next to their username in the memberlist, and click "Remove Selected".

I've set the group to Open Group, so that users can submit a request to join. If you want, I can change it to Closed Group so that no one can submit a request to join, and only you can add them. Which do you prefer?

I've also set the permissions so that everyone can read the expat forum, but only members of the group can post in it.

Zboy, you may want to post a sticky thread in the new forum containing the rules you want for it.

I've never set up this kind of private group for a forum before. So I am not sure if the way I set it up will work as planned. I read the support documentation though and think I got it right. So try it out and see. If there are any problems or issues, let me know.

Winston