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Discuss what's wrong with American women. Share problems, experiences and stories about them and why they suck so bad that you've had to resort to dating abroad and foreign women.
Very funny, but that would be an incel, not a MGTOW. Let's not show our married man bias here now
I posted that clip because it was pretty dense with truths:
Girl meets a guy she finds rather fu*kable, but he's a MGTOW and blows her off as not worth the trouble. The girl is ego-wounded by the rejection (which she never experiences) so she manufactures a lame reason to get white knights involved on her behalf. She gets drunk with "I'll show you" power when she is certain that the MGTOW will feel the pain he deserves for rejecting her.
HOWEVER, note the girl's reaction when the MGTOW starts making a light work of the white knights. Her vagina self-lubricates with excitement to the point where her panties moisten at the sight of the beat down by the guy she wanted but can't have, thus increasing her attraction.
The one guy beating the five is a bit much to be realistic, but the rest rings true for me. I have had variations of this happen at both work and at play. My social life is 95 percent rejecting women (and therefore making them angry) and choosing among the 5% that I really like. Most women think they can screw any men they wish, even it is not true. But rejecting women often results in this type of blowback, trust me on that.
The other thing is that a girl like this would willingly bend forward for that MGTOW anytime despite the fight. She hates him on one level, but she gets wet for him at the same time because she can't have him and he kicked butt.
This is female nature as I have seen it time and time again. No, most MGTOW are not Tom Cruise look alikes, but many of us have the time and resources to keep ourselves fit, muscular, strong, and alluring for women since we are not slaves to wives and family.
Bias would be you denying there's a lot of overlap between 'incel' and 'MGTOW' crowds. Hell even Ghost and Cornfed have said in posts that MGTOW 'may be the best path for men at least for the time being' and those two are pretty firmly in the incel camp.
There's a lot of incels who use the MGTOW label as a crutch and you know that. The awesome, fit, wealthy guy who coolly dismisses any female and doesn't give them much of a thought at all as he engages in his awesome hobbies and lives life to the fullest? That's the minority and you know it. I mean those guys exist in the real world for sure but they don't really come online to discuss on forums, make podcasts and debate folks online. You know just as well as I do, that 99% of self-described MGTOW's in manosphere internet circles are indistinguishable from your average run-of-the-mill incel, just uses different lingo.
Well, no.... I have only actually met one other MGTOW. He is abroad and he is a young guy getting more than his share. I think you have fallen victim to the female shaming tactic of conflating MGTOW with incels to discredit the lifestyle.
MGTOW are men who have had enough experience with women to become red pill and they therefore shun marriage and avoid the legal traps that women set for men. There is an extreme catagory of MGTOW called MGTOW Monk and they might be described as volcels because they completely avoid contact with women in an almost separatist way.
Finally, incels are blue pill by nature, not red pill so they can’t be MGTOW unless you are a married guy trying to discredit the lifestyle in an effort to paint your married condition as somehow superior to MGTOW as you are trying to do.
In my personal case, MGTOW has made me not care about rejection and I go thru more than my share of young women in far greater measure than ever before even though I am older now. The young MGTOW I met gets even more action than I so stop calling blue pill simps who can’t get laid MGTOW. That is wishful thinking.
But thanks for confirming that @Ghost and @Cornfed are incels. It explains at lot and it confirms my suspicions about them. They don’t get female nature at all so they suffer because women are so different than they have been conditioned to think.
CE is unusual about labeling himself as MGTOW. I only use that label in forums like this one, where we all know what it means so it functions as shorthand. I would never call myself MGTOW in real life, anymore than I would call myself loner, amoral, selfish, impolite and various other not so flattering labels. It's just idiotic to go around labelling yourself in an unflattering way, though of course I expect other people to label me in unflattering ways, not that I much care.
There have always been men who act like MGTOWs, under different names. Confirmed bachelors. Loners. Most homeless men are effectively MGTOW. Much of the military has always been MGTOW, also expat contact workers, such as oil related workers stationed in Dubai, etc. Many of these unmarried men use whores, some date regular girlfriends, some just go without.
True.... I was living MGTOW long before the concept came into being. The term just happened to encapsulate everything I stood for better than any other term so it was a validation of sorts. But you're right, I don't go around in every day life using the term because most people would not understand it.
I would say I was a lot like this little boy who is essentially MGTOW though he likely never heard of the term:
So CE gets stomped by Marcos (yet again) and continues to post psuedo-intellectual drivel. Sigh. You know, to be honest, it's quite pathetic how most of you here champion mgtow as some kind of "next step" in male evolution, when they're actually incels using the mgtow label to try to hand-wave their shortcomings away. As Marcos succinctly put, the man who is out there making bank and ignoring women while living life to the fullest and diving into his hobbies has no time to worry about silly concept such as mgtow. What the hell is a mgtow anyway? I've asked dozens and each group has a different answer than the others.
And don't say it's simply "men who don't agree with marriage", because that describes me and I'm the farthest from a mgtow as you could get. I wish Winston would stop letting you incels-in-disguise clutter the forum up with your tripe, but as always, if it makes him money he's unlikely to budge.
The Grey Menace | Lone Wolf
Basically, yes. Taken literally, "Incel" and "MGTOW" are both poor terms for classification.
"Incel" is exclusive to the extreme in that no one is it, since virtually everyone who is celibate has exercised some choice in the matter.
"MGTOW" is inclusive to the extreme in that any man can be it, depending on whatever he wants the phrase "going their own way" to mean.
If they were to actually define themselves in a sensible manner I'm certain the overlap between the two groups would be spanking big. Those standing outside can see that. Those within the respective groups want to think that they are totally different from the other. A man is in the position he is in due to both circumstance inside as well as outside of his control. Kind of silly to assume it has to all be either entirely voluntary or entirely involuntary.
I suppose you could argue that they are useful as a label to attach oneself to, but as a behavioral classification any line between them is gray at best.
If we're talking about men who shun marriage we can make that list even longer.
Priests. Missionaries. Eunuchs. Hermits who live out in the woods. Gay men in places unaccepting of gay marriage. If MGTOW means nothing more than not marrying then all of those are indistinguishable from MGTOW.
All the PUA's I've met were shunning marriage. I guess PUA is MGTOW.
However, if that wasn't inclusive enough, some say that even being married doesn't disqualify one from being MGTOW. What behavior does disqualify one from being MGTOW then? A word that can mean anything you want it to is not very useful for classification.
I get that MGTOW can be considered merely a general philosophy. One that I support.
However, I have seen even big-name Youtuber MGTOWs declare that MGTOW is just a philosophy and then in the next sentence use the word as a behavioral imperative, such as saying "Men should be MGTOW!" If you're gonna make a behavioral recommendation you'd better tell me what this behavior is that you are recommending!
@flowerthief00: This is one reason why mgtow are so stupid. These ingrates declare that "men should be mgtow", but when you ask what mgtow is, you get "it can't be defined!!!11!!11111". So if the behaviour cannot be defined, it stands to reason that men shouldn't do it. Because there is no true "it" they should do.
The Grey Menace | Lone Wolf
I bet that the smarter ones know exactly what they're doing with this equivocation but don't want to stir up conflict. Because the moment there is a meaningful definition of MGTOW there will be some group of men that falls outside of it. Maybe they feel that the MGTOW community cannot afford a fissure.
For example, do you want to hear a meaningful definition? How about this one:
MGTOW: Heterosexual men who do not pursue or maintain sexual/romantic relationships with women.
That would be the beginning of a useful classification. It would set MGTOW apart from both Incel-ish types who pursue women but come up empty and PUA (pick-up artists) alike. In fact, many people already use the word MGTOW as if it means just that. I have seen it used in this forum by some users that way. But this definition would be contested vehemently by those who want to pursue women and still call themselves MGTOW.
So equivocation is preferable to rocking the boat, the smarter ones could be thinking. The fact that they never seem to get called out on it is, I think, because MGTOW mostly operate within echo chambers. Not entirely their fault given a news media that slanders, misunderstands, mischaracterizes.