In America *any* kind of interaction between men and women is sexual harassment.

[Mercury]

Men have more reason to be afraid of even not fleeing from American women. False rape charges are one of them, but today, any kind of non-business related interactions between a man and a female stranger is automatic sexual harassment, whether welcomed or not. Even if the woman is perfectly fine with it, American bosses and American law enforcement is not.

[Yohan]

This is true. USA is extreme about this issue of 'unwanted conversation' and the dating scene is totally broken. However it is similar in Europe too, I can say that out of my personal experience and it is not a new thing, it is going on since decades like that.

In Europe it is still a bit better as women are more scornful but less hateful, they feel not really being 'offended' and are more into ridicule men they reject and are not into 'sexual harassment lawsuits' - further law enforcement in Europe is weak and punishments are rather rare and carry lenient sentences.

The only advice I can give is not to consider any dating, any personal conversation with people working in the same company as you do.
Never offer even a harmless compliment to any female, remain silent.

Might be, as you said, some women are fine with it, but you never know who is who, what is their reaction and it might backfire to you even many years later.

Rampant feminism makes it possible that the risk if something is going wrong is always with the man and never with the woman who is a 'victim' under any circumstances.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

No offense, guys, but even though it's not fair, and that it's pretty indecent of women to deem men as the provocateurs of sexual harassment just for trying to ask you out, you guys must be looking very very dorky for women to do that to you. I say that because I accost women all the time in the U.S. of Gay and not one sexual harassment claim. The only time I got in trouble from trying to accost a strange woman in public was at The University of Toronto in 2004. She was Middle Eastern but the curviest sexiest body I probably ever seen in my life with jet black Elvira hair...she blatantly ignored me.....I said "f**k you" to her...and that "f**k you" was used in her accusation that I wanted to rape her when I never even laid a finger on her. Accosted by three U of T police officers....almost got detained and deported on the spot over that. True story. P.S.: they were so racist that they thought I was from Detroit until I showed them my NY ID (I had a NY'er accent but they were too dumb to discern the difference) and they let me off on the strength of that with a summons. I tried to appeal it because I felt it was on my Canadian tourist record if that makes sense to you guys, and the magistrate judge stopped the tape recorder and told me I was wasting my time...."charges" were dropped.....How weird!!!?

[Yohan]

No offense, guys, but even though it's not fair, and that it's pretty indecent of women to deem men as the provocateurs of sexual harassment just for trying to ask you out, you guys must be looking very very dorky for women to do that to you.

I see it a bit different, looking back how I was treated by women in Western countries before I moved over to Asia.
I would say you are just lucky so far. Your behavior you explain in your comment sounds rather risky to me.

Claiming false sexual harassment is an easy and convenient way to get rid of any man for any woman - even their husband - and if it turns out this was only a crime in the fantasy of a crazy woman, nothing - or at least not much - will happen to her - while the life of the man will continue to be in serious troubles.

To call a man for being very dorky because a malicious woman targets and bullies him is a feminist argument, however there is no excuse for such a despicable behavior - false sexual harassment claims done by women should considered to be a felony and not only as it is done now - merely filing a false police report.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

No offense, guys, but even though it's not fair, and that it's pretty indecent of women to deem men as the provocateurs of sexual harassment just for trying to ask you out, you guys must be looking very very dorky for women to do that to you.

To call a man for being very dorky because a malicious woman targets and bullies him is a feminist argument, however there is no excuse for such a despicable behavior - false sexual harassment claims done by women should considered to be a felony and not only as it is done now - merely filing a false police report.

Thank you for being a man by not being afraid to call me out for the aforementioned (if that's what I said). Using the words "dorky" in such a litigation is a feminist, pro-gyno disposition in the argument. I thought I had ALSO stated in addendum that most guys will not show their face on here, and I met about ten people from this site and 7 of 10 of them did look dorky by feminist standards.

Go back and read my archives on this account and my other "e-irizarry" username account; I had brought up numerous times why don't guys show their face on this website everytime they b.itch about something (hence why they have the problems they have even in foreign countries because even non-feminist/non-western women don't like dorky guys that look feminine. You can be a nerd and/or a geek and still not look dorky, Yohan! I'm proof because women mock me calling me a nerd, but never a dork!). Say what you want, but I got on a Skype video meeting with the famous Steve Hoca! Did you know that he kicked me out of the meeting because he said I was too handsome to have problems for joining MGTOW. I kid you not.

Reverting to those 7 dorky HA guys, based on Western society, look dorky hence creepy to these women that feel they deserve an alpha each and every time. You must have missed the part that I said it's wrong for them to turn these men down and call Papa Police Dept. on the guy just for talking to her and for looking dorky in their eyes. They have to be dorky for them to not fear these guys yet have no fear of calling the police in front of them. Dorky equates to frail and cuckold. Maybe I seem dorky to those women too but they wouldn't dare to call the police on me impromptu because I'm 6'3" at 275 lbs.

I'm not apologizing because 1, I was misunderstood and 2, what I said should not have been maligned to agreeing with the Western woman/feminist disposition.

[Yohan]

I'm not apologizing because 1, I was misunderstood and 2, what I said should not have been maligned to agreeing with the Western woman/feminist disposition.

I don't see any reason why you should 'apologize' - apologize for what?

I merely was pointing out that different men face different situations and collect different experiences and impressions during their life.

You surely remember Hugo Schwyzer, the disgraced male feminist and slutwalk organizer - he had 4 marriages, 4 divorces, he has 2 children and still was sleeping around with many of his female students in Pasadena College over years - he was full of drugs, spent time in a mental ward - he had only a permit for teaching history, but was also teaching 'gender studies'. After he admitted he tried to commit suicide with one of his female friends, he was finally kicked out of his teaching job and his feminist supporters left him. - Interesting the fact that despite his wild sex life he was NEVER accused of sexual harassment.

On the other side of the story there are plenty of young honest men, who just doing a job, no criminal record and are lonely. They never make it up to a girlfriend, even not for a few hours. What is wrong with them? The bad behavior of women against them makes everything worse - no woman is even be willing to be friendly and listen to them as they are all busy to run after guys like Hugo despite they sleep already around with another 5 or 8 boyfriends, are dreaming of sex full with drugs with a 'Justin Biber type' or socialize with thugs, even send them love-letters while they are in jail.

I was also such a man many years ago - lonely after a bad childhood, a nothing, just doing any job for my basic needs - however I could regulate my problems - I left the place and people where I was badly treated for always and was looking out for new people in other countries - around Europe, in Iran, in India, in Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan and finally ending up in Japan.

There was no MGTOW idea when I left Europe, and there was no internet, air tickets were very expensive etc. - but even after many years of a peaceful life in Asia I did not forget what happened to me in my past as a child and young man and I stay firmly with the MGTOW paradigm.

Does this make me weird, or dorky? Maybe, I don't care. Don't ask me what feminists and otherwise bad women, but also people of the Catholic Church did to me and what all they called me to be.... I don't care, I am gone, but I think about other boys and men who are now in a similar situation as I have been before.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

Dorky is looking frail....
Dorky is looking like a cuckold...
Dorky is looking creepy...
it's more a socially awkward OUTER APPEARANCE that the feminists use the term dorky.

You haven't said or done anything to become dorky, Yohan.

I don't care what the official definition is; I'm just using it how the feminists use that term.

Having a bad childhood isn't dorky to me, man. Even many feminists have bad childhoods, too.

Hugo was an unfettered male feminist idiot cuckold so he's definitely dorky.

I'm happy that you're happy abroad. You take care of your adopted children in Asia. I always
called you the Godfather since the NiceGuy days.

You, Phloridian (CE), and IHateRegistering have been my favorites over there on NG/MGTOW since the mid 2000s.

[Mercury]

In America, when it comes to a man interacting with a female stranger, it's considered either business-related, or sexual harassment. Nothing in between, and no third, etc forms of conversation. Guys, even telling an American woman about your trip to Yellowstone National Park is considered sexual harassment in America.

[Yohan]

In America, when it comes to a man interacting with a female stranger, it's considered either business-related, or sexual harassment. Nothing in between, and no third, etc forms of conversation. Guys, even telling an American woman about your trip to Yellowstone National Park is considered sexual harassment in America.

Well, this is a bit far-fetched. However there is politically correct madness around us and articles like this one are worth to be read...and it is not only about USA. Read also the follow-up comments of this article. The feminist world is crazy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sment.html

Why holding a door open for a woman could get you sacked for sex harassment:

One of the startling conclusions from a TV documentary which left Alison Kervin fearful for her son when he starts work
Mail on Sunday sports editor Alison Kervin on why she's 'petrified' for her son

On a visit to the theatre a couple of nights ago, I was standing with a small group of friends when a man came to join us. His shoulders were stooped and his step heavy as he strode across the foyer, frustration oozing from every pore.

'I don't understand the rules any more,' he confessed. 'Everything I say seems to upset people. I told someone at work she had nice shoes on and was warned that it was inappropriate.'

There was a lot of head shaking and murmurs of sympathy as the group – particularly the women – derided the madness of banning compliments for nice shoes.

I decided to offer him my standard response.

Mail on Sunday sports editor Alison Kervin said she's 'petrified' for her son George, 18, after watching a new BBC documentary about harassment in the workplace

'It's simple,' I said. 'You have to ask yourself – would I say this to a rather terrifying cellmate in prison? If not, don't say it to a woman in a professional environment.'

It's not a terribly scientific answer but, since few people are clear about the boundaries of what is appropriate, it works. Or rather, I thought it did.

Because having watched a new BBC documentary due to be screened this week which explores precisely this predicament between men and women in the workplace, my tried and trusted advice no longer seems quite so adequate.

In fact, it has left me petrified for my 18-year-old son, who has yet to enter the world of work.

In the programme, 20 young adults between 18 and 30 are brought together to see whether they understand the rules of behaviour in the workplace. Over two days, they watch a specially written drama telling the story of the working relationship between a man and woman.

The woman is Cat, who arrives on her first day and receives lots of attention from the man, Ryan, who describes himself as her 'mentor'. Both of them are good looking and the workplace is a bar – very relaxed, music playing, drinks being consumed – but it's still work.

And from the moment they meet, Ryan can't resist making subtle digs at Cat. In attempting to teach her to use software for stocktaking purposes, he says: 'When they told me the new duty manager needs help with the stock software, I was like: 'What have you employed her for, then?' But having seen you work, I get it.'

He then leans in slightly too closely over her shoulder at the computer, complimenting Cat on her perfume.

Leaning too close: In the documentary, we see bar manager Ryan leaning over the shoulder of his new colleague, fellow manager Cat, as he shows her how to use the stocktaking software on the computer. Is he too close?

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'He is too close, he's leaning over her shoulder. But she doesn't seem to find a problem with it.'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'I was shocked Cat didn't have the courage to identify the problem and call it straight away.'

THE LAWYER'S VERDICT: 'Ryan has texted friends about the "fit new duty manager", writing "She wants it mate. She just doesn't know it yet."

Definitely sexual harassment.'

She never tells Ryan of her discomfort. But he is so busy flirting that he fails to teach her how to use the software, instead opting to complete the job himself.

When Cat attempts to intervene to finish the stock order, he dismisses her efforts, remarking that it was 'team work… brains and beauty', reducing her contribution to looking pretty. He's clearly pushing his luck, but is he breaking the law?

The drama continues two weeks later as the pair enjoy after-work drinks on a Friday night, and dancing in a club. Cat, a little worse for wear, is sick and, when Ryan checks on her, he puts his hand on her shoulder then slides it down to her waist. She removes his hand and walks onto the dance floor.

But the nub of the story takes place the following week when Cat, unfamiliar still with the software, messes up a drinks order. Ryan consoles her by asking her to stay on for a drink, and joins her in a taxi home. But he gets out at her stop, and moves in for a kiss – a kiss Cat rejects.

The programme also observes the group of 20 youngsters as they watch the drama play out and reveals how divided they are in their opinions of what's taking place.

Some brush off the entire chain of events as little more than 'banter', while others agreed that the woman should have made her discomfort more clear. At the other end of the spectrum, some – mainly women – feel the man's behaviour is completely out of order.

But the most chilling part of the whole thing – the part which left me fearful for my son and which will undoubtedly shock any parent – is the concluding verdict by the barrister brought in by the programme.

She is unequivocal. There is no ambiguity in any of the scenarios, she states. Each one can be construed, by law, as sexual harassment, defined by statute as any unwanted conduct that has the intention of violating someone's dignity.

Take each scenario in turn and the shocking reality of this is clear.

Paying a compliment: Cat looks surprised when Ryan compliments her on her perfume. Was it flirty or friendly?

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: ‘If someone compliments you on your smell, that’s nice. He just said, “That’s nice perfume.”'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'If one of my work colleagues had complimented my perfume, I wouldn’t have taken offence. If she found it offensive she should have definitely said something.'

THE LAWYER’S VERDICT: 'The perfume comment is sexual harassment. For example, would he say to a man, you’ve got nice perfume?

'If not, then it’s likely that it’s related to sex.'

Ryan's flirtatious, throwaway remark to Cat – 'brains and beauty' – is sexual harassment. Leaning too close to Cat, touching her waist and commenting on her perfume could likewise potentially lead to a tribunal. All of these things, the barrister points out, violate her dignity and as such could constitute a harassment case.

As I watched the show, with a growing sense of unease, I thought about the man at the theatre who had complimented a colleague's shoes. It turned out that the woman was right: his approval, even if kindly and innocently delivered, was unprofessional and potentially illegal.

As someone who began her career in the breast-groping, bottom-pinching 1990s, I am delighted that the world of work has been transformed. For years, women kept quiet about all manner of abuse so that they could keep their careers on track. That was clearly wrong.

But if things have improved for female workers, there's also more confusion, particularly for men.

Just how are men and women supposed to deal with each other and just what sort of world do we want to see in the future? Will it be a sackable offence to praise a new dress, a suit, a natty tie?

Countless relationships, happy marriages and strong families have started in the workplace. In fact, one 2014 survey suggested that 30 per cent of relationships begin there. Are these to be banned?

And isn't it a little demeaning to suggest that women, who have spent centuries putting men in their place, are incapable of speaking up for themselves from time to time?

I can't help feeling there's something Orwellian in the way we seem determined to police and punish not just sexism and bullying, but normal, human behaviour, too.

As the mother of a son who has just left home, the serious consequences of an innocent mistake now seem terrifyingly real.

I hope, as any parent does, that George will meet the woman of his dreams, have a fantastic social life and enjoy good professional relationships with men and women in whatever career he chooses.

But I now understand the harsh reality of what he and millions of other young men are facing – not just in distant US college campuses, or high-tech 'start ups' in trendy parts of London or Manchester but increasingly in the everyday world.

A couple of colleagues have frightening stories to tell.

One has a son, Richard, aged 21, who works for a bank in London and was given a warning for simply holding a door open for a colleague – an act of chivalry or, at the very least, basic manners in any other generation.


Touching the back: During after-work drinks and dancing, Cat is sick. Ryan checks she is OK, putting his hand on her shoulder then sliding it down to her waist. She moves away but doesn’t say anything

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'I don’t think it was very fair to say moving away was an explicit sign she was saying no.'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'Ryan was sexually harassing Cat, trying to get her to drink a lot. It seemed he only had one motive and that was to get her into bed.'

THE LAWYER’S VERDICT: 'Sexual harassment. With any form of physical contact at work – other than shaking hands – you’re getting yourself into trouble.'

Richard said: 'I saw her coming down the corridor so waited and said, 'After you', allowing her to go through first. Then I went through after her and a man came through behind me.'

Astonishingly, the woman complained to the bank's human resources department that his actions amounted to sexism.

Richard was called into a meeting with HR officials, who told him that opening the door for his colleague had 'infantilised' her, and made her feel 'less'.

'It was all really frightening,' Richard continued. 'I thought I'd lose my job. I got a letter confirming the warning and it said that if I held the door open only for black men, or only for white men, it would be racist, so it was sexist that I held the door only for the woman.

'I told them that I would hold the door for a man as well but they said I hadn't in this instance – I'd treated the woman differently. I learnt a tough lesson.'

Carl, 28, a retail manager in Manchester, has been forced to learn a similar lesson. A couple of years ago, his store took on extra staff before the Christmas rush. One was a woman in her early 20s.

'It's always frenetic and full-on in December,' Carl admits. 'We're a close-knit team anyway but with the music in the store and the increase in shoppers, the camaraderie between us can be described as casual, fun and close-knit. Our guards were down, I suppose.'

Carl was working with the young woman in the changing rooms, moving rails of clothing and emptying boxes, and put his hand out to stop her falling backwards when she had tripped.

'I'm quite a touchy-feely guy,' Carl admits. 'Not in a sexually aggressive way, but I will unthinkingly put my hand on someone's shoulder or their arm to emphasise a point. I do it with my male friends and platonic female friends.

'I didn't gauge my colleague's reaction at the time although, looking back, I can see that she did freeze. But I put that down to her being the new girl, rather than thinking I was totally out of line.'

Making a pass: They have a drink in the bar after work and share a taxi home. At Cat’s stop, Ryan gets out and sends the driver away. He then tries to kiss Cat and says: ‘I thought I was getting signals.’ She makes her excuses and leaves

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'She shouldn’t be offended. They work in a bar. He tried to make a move. It could have been messier.'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'The move towards Cat was sexual harassment. I don’t see how it’s not.'

THE LAWYER’S VERDICT: 'Providing we could establish that it was linked to his work – that he was acting in the course of his employment – then that’s harassment.'

A fortnight later, he discovered, to his shock, that she had reported him and two other members of staff for inappropriate behaviour.

'I was speechless,' Carl said. 'I didn't know how to react.'

Carl said it 'pulled me up sharp'.

'I really thought about who I was around my colleagues, and in particular her. But I genuinely couldn't see how my behaviour could have been misconstrued. It's the first time any allegations have ever been made against me.

'I had a few sleepless nights afterwards. Since then, the episode has made me re-evaluate what is normal behaviour between adults. Is a friendly gesture not allowed?

Well, no – as the BBC drama highlights. Working lives should not be blighted or undermined by unwanted attention, as the barrister explains on screen. The rules are the rules.

Don't get me wrong, misogynistic abuse can have a devastating effect and must be stamped out.

Take the case of Helen, a shocking real-life case explored by the show. She says: '[My male colleagues] talked about the size of my breasts. They talked about my vagina quite openly. They took a picture of me when I was asleep, graffitied an ejaculating penis on my face, put it on Facebook, put it on the company's social media page.

'I put up with quite a lot I guess. I felt unable to stand up for myself. I knew it was wrong – my instincts were telling me – but I didn't know what to do with it. That was the hardest thing.'

Helen took them to a tribunal and won her case, plus £10,000 in compensation. But facing them in the tribunal was not easy.

'It was insinuated it was wanted, that I enjoyed it and didn't have a problem with it. I felt I couldn't be myself any more because I'm naturally warm and smiley. Then you think: am I leading someone on by just being me?'

What sort of world do we want... will it be a sackable offence to praise a new dress, a suit, a natty tie?
Yet the programme also highlights the terrible consequences that a culture of accusation can have, taking the real-life case of Keith, a co-ordinator in a hospital, who was wrongly accused of sexual harassment at work.

Keith, who is openly gay, describes how the allegations emerged after he failed to swap a shift with a co-worker. 'He accused me of touching his bottom 14 times… of saying he had red, sexy lips.

'He accused me of grooming him in the way that I would cook food and bring food for him.

'I was totally dumbfounded by all these accusations. There was an internal investigation. The accusations were proven to be unfounded and I was cleared of all allegations.

'I never, ever thought in a million years that anyone could be so cruel, vicious or vindictive.

'I've never drunk before but I found myself drinking up to a bottle of vodka a day to self-medicate. I was diagnosed with stress-related Type 2 diabetes.'

No wonder the men look sheepish as this revealing experiment draws to a close.

'I'm never going to talk to any of the women at work again, in case I say something wrong,' says one.

'I just don't want to upset anyone, but I don't know how…'

And it's not just them who have been left with questions. Every family in the country has some thinking to do.

No surprise that the only advice you can give to young men is to stay away from Western women....

[Mercury]

Take each scenario in turn and the shocking reality of this is clear.

Paying a compliment: Cat looks surprised when Ryan compliments her on her perfume. Was it flirty or friendly?

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: ‘If someone compliments you on your smell, that’s nice. He just said, “That’s nice perfume.”'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'If one of my work colleagues had complimented my perfume, I wouldn’t have taken offence. If she found it offensive she should have definitely said something.'

THE LAWYER’S VERDICT: 'The perfume comment is sexual harassment. For example, would he say to a man, you’ve got nice perfume?

Touching the back: During after-work drinks and dancing, Cat is sick. Ryan checks she is OK, putting his hand on her shoulder then sliding it down to her waist. She moves away but doesn’t say anything

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'I don’t think it was very fair to say moving away was an explicit sign she was saying no.'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'Ryan was sexually harassing Cat, trying to get her to drink a lot. It seemed he only had one motive and that was to get her into bed.'

THE LAWYER’S VERDICT: 'Sexual harassment. With any form of physical contact at work – other than shaking hands – you’re getting yourself into trouble.'

I could well interpret it as being like this;

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'It ought to be taken as a compliment when someone holds the door for you, tells you that you have nice perfume, and what not.'

HOW THE WOMEN SEE IT: 'Men are creepy. They need to leave us all alone and mind their own business.'

THE LAWYER'S VERDICT: 'Any type of non-business interactions between men and women is a capital felony under Federal law in the United States of America. Statutory harassment/sexual harassment. This is an issue resulting in full involvement of the FBI, the United States Department of Homeland Security, the United States Military, the United States Marshals, and the United States Supreme Court; this is an issue involving the entire Federal government of the United States of America. You are easily facing the death penalty if not the absolute rest of your life behind bars with zero chance ever of parole.'

And even moving towards this;

HOW THE (FEW) WOMEN SEE IT: 'He is a great guy, and she loved having him close by, putting his arm around her, and all that.'

HOW THE WOMAN WHO WAS TOUCHED SEES IT: 'He was being a gentleman and I enjoyed being embraced by him.'

HOW THE MEN SEE IT: 'This country is so messed up, it's sick.'

THE LAWYER'S VERDICT: 'Statutory sexual assault! Under FBI/Homeland Security law in the United States, men and women are forbidden within less than ten (10) feet of each other while outside the private residence. No person shall be present within less than ten (10) feet of any person or persons of the opposite gender, nor shall any person have any form of physical contact with any person or persons of the opposite gender. Everyone involved can be charged with a capital felony which is thoroughly investigated by the FBI, the United States Department of Homeland Security, the United States Supreme Court, and carries a mandatory penalty of three hundred-seventy-five (375) years to life in Federal prison and/or the death penalty for all involved.