Happier Abroad Forum Community

In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

In an ideal situation, a foreigner who comes to a new place should gain acceptance based on how much he's willing to integrate into the local culture-- with language being the main tool. The more effort he puts into it, the greater are his chances.

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

A paradox occurs: the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American. And they'll love you for it. Sick, sick, sick!

It doesn't make sense. It's a mental disorder which is the result of cultural abuse by the ex colonial master resulting in deep inferiority and self hatred. And if you don't love your own culture and if you disrespect yourself, then you won't respect the person who wants to learn about your culture. You will shun him and think he makes fun of you. You will look down on him because you look down on yourself. And you look down on yourself because your colonial master looked down on you for so long!

Seen it in so many countries, so many places.

Is this how things are in many places? Yes! Is this a normal thing; the way it should be? No!

After the colonials go home, should you not stop pining for them, should you not get rid of your inferiority complex and move on with cultural life in your country and in your language? Should you not start welcoming newcomers as a host and master, and not as someone who has to make excuses for being what he is?

Just my thoughts.

See, Ladislav. I know this is a recurring issue that you mention, but I feel that especially non-White people should learn the local language in order to be intergrated. I love Latin America because they don't play that "Oooh you speak-a inring-gwesh!! It's okay me know inring-gwesh!" Only like 5-10 percent of Lat Am is like that. Then you are further prepetuating White supremacy i.e. colonial superiority/Stockholm-Syndrome-of-sorts to these people. Now the foreign-language-challenged HA members don't have to study Spanish anymore because they got it like that. See, now those people, who it applies to, don't have to beat themselves over the head trying to learn what "Como se llama ud?" means anymore. But I'm sure some of you pompous types already knew that.

See, SkateboardStephen, he's not White, and what if he had gone to Brasil thinking that only speaking Inngresh would get him by. S#%t, he'd be on a plane back to the U.S. of Gay like our fairweather friend International Love because he wouldn't have gotten by on that only. This is why International Love (American of Asian ancestry: non-White) needs to learn language and grow some cajones because he is non-White therefore non-colonial master and he would need to do that. Same with Hero; with that and some cajones, he would have had more in Dominican Republic even though those women flaked on him.

Minorities have to work twice as hard to exceed: e.g. learning a foreign language just to expatriate there accordingly, have higher grades in school, have more vocational certifications, have a squeaky-clean public record, etc. #LeggoMyEgo Alas I enjoy working harder. #ChrisBrownSmirk

I really hope this demographic stays in the Philippines for the most part; let them take most of the American expat's that have this "superiority complex". I like Lat Am to stay at least 85 - 90 percent Spanish-speaking only. This why when one of my Lat Am chicks says "Me gustaria a aprender ingles" ....I'd correct them by saying, "No te preocupes. No seria necesario aprender ingles. Ese idioma tiene malparido lexico! No vale la pena asi! Se me 'ta falleciendo mucho el idioma a traves del mundo." (Don't worry about it! It's not necesarry to learn such a s.hitty language. Not worth it. My language is pretty much dying worldwide!"

I still feel that even though you feel it's better to remain in the figment of a "colonial master" to them by not learning the language, but it can dangerously spread feminism and stupid Amerinicanisms that unscathed, non-ueber-capitalist, devoid-of-solipsism-pro-familial-unified worlds don't need by having them learning English would would tap them into the nasty American Matrix!!!!

Oh, Irrizary, I was not talking about Latin America ( except Puerto Rico, a really insane place).

ladislav wrote:Oh, Irrizary, I was not talking about Latin America ( except Puerto Rico, a really insane place).

You were mainly talking about SEA, E. Asia mainly right?

Don´t know nothing wrong with it if they think the foreign culture suits them better. It´s not the case like with china where there is a big 5000 years old history behind them. They don´t even know their history so why bother?

.

ladislav wrote:In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

If I'd known I could get by with grand gestures and a safari hat, I'd have skipped all that language study.

ladislav wrote:In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

In an ideal situation, a foreigner who comes to a new place should gain acceptance based on how much he's willing to integrate into the local culture-- with language being the main tool. The more effort he puts into it, the greater are his chances.

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

A paradox occurs: the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American. And they'll love you for it. Sick, sick, sick!

It doesn't make sense. It's a mental disorder which is the result of cultural abuse by the ex colonial master resulting in deep inferiority and self hatred. And if you don't love your own culture and if you disrespect yourself, then you won't respect the person who wants to learn about your culture. You will shun him and think he makes fun of you. You will look down on him because you look down on yourself. And you look down on yourself because your colonial master looked down on you for so long!

Seen it in so many countries, so many places.

Is this how things are in many places? Yes! Is this a normal thing; the way it should be? No!

After the colonials go home, should you not stop pining for them, should you not get rid of your inferiority complex and move on with cultural life in your country and in your language? Should you not start welcoming newcomers as a host and master, and not as someone who has to make excuses for being what he is?

Just my thoughts.

All that doesn't apply in Mexico. if you behaved like a pompous ass, you would be treated like shit. Maybe this is the case in Asia but for sure not in Mexico.

A lot of what you say does not hold true for Indonesia. If you resemble their former colonizers, the Dutch, they may consider you more attractive, rich, desirable, etc. But they don't diss people for trying to integrate. If you learn Indonesia, people are pleased that you learned it. Most Indonesians tend to be rather polite. Javanese culture highly values politeness. Every ethnic group is a minority there, but the Javanese are the largest minority, I'm thinking maybe 40% of the population. Other people-groups tend to be polite and make you feel comfortable, too, though I've met a few exceptions while traveling.

ladislav wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2014, 7:37 pm

In many countries ... foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

Yes, indeed.
That is exactly my experience in Thailand over 10+ years.

ladislav wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2014, 7:37 pm

... the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

My experience in Thailand fits ladislav's conclusions.
And that has come as an unpleasant shock to me, after investing 10+ years and serious money to learn the language here.

ladislav wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2014, 7:37 pm

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American.

I can't do that, I simply can not do that.

To this problem, I haven't found a solution ... yet.
.

ladislav wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2014, 7:37 pm

In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

In an ideal situation, a foreigner who comes to a new place should gain acceptance based on how much he's willing to integrate into the local culture-- with language being the main tool. The more effort he puts into it, the greater are his chances.

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

A paradox occurs: the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American. And they'll love you for it. Sick, sick, sick!

It doesn't make sense. It's a mental disorder which is the result of cultural abuse by the ex colonial master resulting in deep inferiority and self hatred. And if you don't love your own culture and if you disrespect yourself, then you won't respect the person who wants to learn about your culture. You will shun him and think he makes fun of you. You will look down on him because you look down on yourself. And you look down on yourself because your colonial master looked down on you for so long!

Seen it in so many countries, so many places.

Is this how things are in many places? Yes! Is this a normal thing; the way it should be? No!

After the colonials go home, should you not stop pining for them, should you not get rid of your inferiority complex and move on with cultural life in your country and in your language? Should you not start welcoming newcomers as a host and master, and not as someone who has to make excuses for being what he is?

Just my thoughts.

I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you, Ladislav.

I understand that you're an accomplished polyglot. I too am an avid foreign language enthusiast and love to learn the local language and fully integrate into the host culture.

I personally could never respect a linguistically self-hating society. If a people cannot even respect itself and its own culture then why should anyone else respect them? I find societies characterized by such self-hatred disgusting and worthy of contempt and refuse to associate with them or learn their languages even when these are interesting from a linguistic perspective.

Whenever I am abroad in a country where I speak the local language (e.g., Spain and Latin America) I insist on speaking it at all times and absolutely refuse to speak English. I don't care if some people think English is "cool" nor do I care about its worldwide popularity. I don't think that English is cool or even a beautiful language. I don't even identify with my birth culture (UK) in the slightest. So I speak nothing but Spanish, tell people outright that I consider the Spanish language and Hispanic culture superior, and avoid Anglophiles and English enthusiasts as though they were the plague.

I only have interest in cultures that have self-love and self-respect and a concomitant respect for those foreigners who wish to integrate into them. I even have more respect for those with a somewhat chauvinistic ethnocentrism and sense of cultural superiority. I much prefer proud cultures such as Spain, France, Italy and the Slavic nations than the likes of Germany, Holland and Scandinavia with their unbridled Anglophilia or post-colonial India or any other formerly colonized Asian nation with its colonial Stockholm syndrome.

As an aspiring polyglot I wish to learn one language from each major language family (e.g., Romance, Germanic, Slavic, etc.) but I think that I will be quite selective in what languages I choose to learn (only those whose speakers have sufficient pride and little to no self-hatred).

Excellent topic.

I think in the Anglosphere people mostly see thorugh the lenses of Self-Love but don't see the Self-Hate other nations have.

ladislav wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2014, 7:37 pm

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

Which countries are these?

Some of what you wrote seems to apply to Indonesia, but seems to be lessening over time. But the part about getting angry over the foreigner learning the local language does not apply. If you are white and you can speak a bit of Indonesian, then Indonesians complement you about how well you speak. They love to see foreigners speaking their language...or at least a lot of them seem to. I've never seen them get angry about this. I also don't get the sense that they respect foreigners more for being more foreign and not integrating.

But I have noticed what I considered to be a colonial mindset, a kind of inferiority complex, the idea that other countries are ahead of them. Foreigners, even from other nearby countries, are considered to be high class, or at least it is a plus to marry a foreigner for those of lower economic classes. Maybe it's because he could generally afford a plane ticket. I haven't spent time on Borneo and I haven't met poor Malaysians coming down. On Java, the ones I met probably flew down from peninsular Malaysia.

But the middle class is growing, and I didn't sense the same level of interest in foreigners the last time I was there. This could be because I was getting to be more middle aged and married looking, and I'd encounter more girls liking foreigners when I was young and single looking. So maybe the feeling is just as strong, but I suspect as more decades pass since their colonial pass and as more Indonesians get fancy smart phones and automobiles, that the sense of inferiority is decreasing.

The authorities are now claiming that an inferiority complex that a Brown or Black woman feels because of historical oppression makes her legally unable to consent to sex with a White man.

galileo2333 wrote: ↑

April 26th, 2022, 11:32 am

The authorities are now claiming that an inferiority complex that a Brown or Black woman feels because of historical oppression makes her legally unable to consent to sex with a White man.

Which authorities?